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FCT2
03:43:26 Thu
Mar 22 2012

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Dredging in Nome

Im really thinking about building my own 6" dredge with 18hp pump
& head to Nome! All my friends & family think I'm crazy! I say what an adventure. I know it's not easy to do. But I'm 44 lived through 1 heart attack & own my irrigation business & I'm getting burned out (boring).
Am I crazy? I would like anyone's opinion on the idea because I got the fervor really bad!!

Thanks
Frank

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
04:32:07 Thu
Mar 22 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Not crazy at all! I think a good portion of the people that have any adventure left in their bodies would join you. However this year may not be the best time to charge up to Nome. Do a search of this forum for Nome information and you may see what I mean. It is getting pretty late to build a dredge, assemble the support equipment, make lodging arrangements and get the mess to the dock on time to make the barge.

  
AK_Au_diver
04:44:17 Thu
Mar 22 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


If you do a search on my username it should show all the info you need to get headed in the right direction. I've started or posted on enough threads on this topic to answer most of your questions.

(the search on this site is tricky, let us know if you need help figuring it our; or just search on how to search. j/k)

What diver training organization are you certified by, and what dive classification/endorsements do you have?

  
FCT2
05:12:30 Thu
Mar 22 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

I know I can't make it there in time this year but. Next year look out.
I want to build my barge here in Houston Texas this year & get certified in diving. Which by the way, my sister happens to be a dive instructor & said that wouldn't be a problem(FREE). I think there might a catch to it, she wants to go! Now what do I do...lol I know nothing can happen this year but i have year to plan build & get ready. I'm a stickler about planning. I want to build a 28' barge with 25" pontoons. Elevate decking a foot or so higher so it can handle some sort of surf may 2 to 4 foot seas instead of the river barges seen on tv.
True, they gave me the fevor but most of them remind me of some of my employees. Ha ha I shouldn't say but most of guys don't know how to fix hardly anything. Let alone find gold. I know if they can so can I & more. Any help is grealy appreciated & I look forward to talking about the shinny stuff for which I'm being called a loon in many circles.

  
en315
01:17:15 Mon
Mar 26 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Does any one know a Dan Murphy a gold dredger in nome.says he has been dredgeing for 10 yrs. He travels to and from syracuse new york. Just wondering if he is a trust worthy characher. I'm thinking of going up to help him i weld vary mechanicly inclined an a outrageously hard worker i do not want to be take for a ride or taken advantage of

  
dickb
01:33:06 Mon
Mar 26 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


  
FCT2
03:01:47 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

This is the pump I want to use for my dredge. The 4 " class is what I intend to use.
All coments are welcome. Take a look.
http://www.grpumps.com/products~action~display~id~175~kind~Self-Priming%20Pumps~level~types~kid~28.asp

  
LipCa
03:22:30 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

those specs are probably for the 10"?

  
AK_Au_diver
03:36:19 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


That looks like the wrong type of pump. You want a high pressure pump, I'm not sure if that is or not.

But there is absolutely no need for a "trash" pump, which is what these appear to be, that is to say they can pump "trash" or solids, you don't need to pump solids.

Look for a centrifugal pump, high pressure pump.

Keene says their 6" dredge 4x3 pump is
Pumps a maximum of 650 gallons per minute.
Capable of 200 feet of head lift.
Pump size is 4" x 3"

Also remember that you are limited to 18hp pump power in the 6" rec area.

  
FCT2
03:36:27 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

The pump is rated from 3hp to 103hp engine so I can upgrade dredge in the future. I wonder if it can handle the riggers of non-stop use. When the seas are in our favor I don't want to be watching others leaving the dock.

  
AK_Au_diver
03:40:14 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

FCT2:

You should fly up here in July or August for a week or so, before spending a bunch of money on what might be the wrong stuff. Also, I expect there to be lots of cheap barely used stuff for sale by then.

At the very least, it would be good to get some ground truth. A $2000 trip is worth it when you're going to be spending $40k on outfitting and shipping for a 6" dredge to Nome.

Storage over the winter is not that much here.


  
AK_Au_diver
03:43:36 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Non stop use is normally labeled as "Duty Cycle 1" or "Duty Cycle 100%".

If the pump doesn't work for what you need it for, and that is to drive your dredge's venturi jet, then it doesn't matter what else the pump is rated for; it won't work for you.
[1 edits; Last edit by AK_Au_diver at 04:47:05 Tue Mar 27 2012]

  
FCT2
03:44:43 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Thanks for the boost buddy. Not much of that kind of talk around here.

  
Darkstar_Mining
05:48:31 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

http://www.keeneeng.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P1500&Category_Code=FCP

this is keene's 1500 gpm.. it will run an 8 inch..probably cheaper than what your looking at too. :smile:

  
bluewaterinvestor
07:33:53 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Hello everyone...I'm new to the board but I wanted to barge in to see if anyone knew what the rates were to hire crew from Nome to work on either a suction or excavator dredge in Nome.

We have 370 acres a few miles from Nome Harbor to work for the 2012 season. Our boat is being equipped and will be in Nome by June 1st or so.

I have dozens of 'couch potatoes' that say they want to go with us, but I'm old enough to know the realities of being damp, wet and cold for 3-4 months doesn't suit the weak. I fear I'll spend my time running the sick and weak to the airport to get them back to suburbia.

I was hoping to hire a local crew to either use our 8" dredge or if approved in time (or ever) an excavator dredge on our 70 X 20 work boat.

Any help or pointers on how to find good crew in Nome would be much appreciated.




  
AK_Au_diver
16:24:19 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Quote: Darkstar_Mining at 05:09:28 Tue Mar 27 2012

Just bought the barge for my twin 14hp hohler 8 inch dredge were building for 2013 season in Nome.


Twin 14HP? WHY???? Avoid twin dredge pumps if you can. Spend the right money the first time, you will be much happier. Let me guess, you'll also have a separate engine running your air compressor? Get a Kohler 38hp or 40hp (or as close to 36hp as you can if you are going to be on the 8" Rec area.

Twin 14hp might not be enough to run an 8" dredge with enough suction, or if it does, the rpm might be so high that your fuel economy will be horrible, and your engine wear will be significant.

Look at the Kohler LH775, KDW1404, or CH960. If you can handle the weight, go with liquid cooled, you'll have much more versatility. Gasoline is simpler, diesel is better, either works, depending on what you are comfortable with.

On my 8" I've run a Kohler CH980 to drive the Keene P1500 and Gast PCA-10; one engine to run them all. Not in the Rec area of course.

Do not have an non-powered dredge platform, get at least cheap used outboard so you have some capacity to drive yourself. Tie all the fuel tanks into one big tank, use one nice fuel filter/separator/splitter like a Raycor, and keep a 5 gallon handheld reserve tank on board, to splash some fuel in the main tank for the outboard, in case you run out of fuel while dredging.

Where are you going to use an 8" dredge?

  
AK_Au_diver
16:38:29 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Quote: bluewaterinvestor at 07:33:53 Tue Mar 27 2012

Our boat is being equipped and will be in Nome by June 1st or so.

I was hoping to hire a local crew to either use our 8" dredge or if approved in time (or ever) an excavator dredge on our 70 X 20 work boat.


Don't kid yourself, your boat will not be in Nome until June 10th, maybe as late as June 15th before you can take possession of it and get it in the water.

An excavator miner? that must be a small excavator and washplant, or a very heavy duty barge. What is the depth reach of the excavator and the height above waterline of the deck that it will be on? What kind of washplant will you be using? Which lease tracts are these, 51, 52, 53?

  
Darkstar_Mining
21:03:40 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Twin 14's? See, I was saying that to a friend of mine and was what I felt was realistic as well... thank you I am going back to my first plan and putting the 1500 and Keene heavy duty compressor then running everything from one power plant. Thank you, My sluice design calls for 16foot of box at 30 inches across am I calculating this right...it will be full length 3m moss..1/2" expanded with a combination of riffles..is there enough precious stones to warrant a recovery pan at the end and send to 12"x10' gem sluice? A lil' green a question I know but fairly, any quetion left unasked...thanks

  
DanfromNY
21:05:30 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

I agree with AK_AU_Diver, theres going to be lots of gear for sale within a few months of all the new dredgers coming up and finding out they have no place to go and no place to store their dredge, The Harbor will be FULL.Good Luck to al that attempt,Its going to be very difficult.later dan

  
DanfromNY
21:52:52 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Good Luck with your ad, theres Lots of EXPERTS in Nome and Im sure your ad will reach many others outside of Nome,looking for another MARK.Im sure youll do well with any number of them, NOT. Guys who know how to recover gold from the ocean(actual miners) spend their time mining,not chatting up all the newbies and offering them ways to "clean up" their gold for them.Look me up if you make it to Nome,Im easy to find,Nomes not that large. My suggestion would be start with a 6" dredge, ONE dredge instead of building several, you cant be in two places at once.Youll want to be THERE, all the time. Absentee ownership doesnt work very well in the mining business from what Ive observed.once again good luck

  
Darkstar_Mining
23:27:32 Tue
Mar 27 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Totally agree,just came from dive school sorry, well I'm pretty serious, I know the feeling of synisism most dredge miners feel for others who SAY they are going to Nome. I am not one of those people I assure you. I appreciate how emphatic everyone doing this trade already is when a new guy speaks up. fact is I've all the steel it takes to do this. I am ready to step to the challenge and adventure. Yes storage is an issue. Yes it does cost alot, yes the freight alone will cost me 5$k-7500, no there is no Quarter given by the Bering sea. But yet I am just out of diving class, ready to work on my dredge and its dark out. and I am once again wasting my time explaining me. Just as serious as you guys and have the resources, the mental steel to make this happen. I appreciate this conversation as it only adds to my fire burning.. "gold fever"!! I will look you up.thanks for encouragement.. we all started some where.

  
AK_Au_diver
01:01:55 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Quote: Darkstar_Mining at 21:23:08 Tue Mar 27 2012

Plan to use 6" nozzle and 8" dredge. Is this allowable for recreational?


I specifically asked DNR this question, just so I could tell people like you the right thing.

Yes, you can have a 6" nozzle and an 8" hose/jet/flare/sluice. I asked them where on the nozzle they measure that, at the restriction ring, nozzle main ID, or hose; they were less clear.

But It Does Not Matter!!! Don't do it. If you are building an 8" dredge, build an 8" dredge. If you are building a 6" dredge, build a 6" dredge. A recreational 6" dredge, to be allowed on the 6" West Rec area AND the 8" East Rec area, may not have a total water pump hp of more than 18hp (one 18hp or two 9hp is typical). A recreational 8" dredge, to be allowed only on the 8" East Rec area, may not have a total water pump hp of more than 36hp.

There is a small bit of give that they have allowed in the past, but are not guaranteed to continue to do so. I have asked about setups where there is a power take off of 5hp for the air compressor from say a 23hp engine, and the pump is only rated to handle 18hp (Like the Keene P3523VC). They said they approve deviations on a case by case basis, if the applicant can show that it meets the intent of the regulation. Don't take a 120hp engine and mount a 600gpm water pump to it.

If your hose and jet are 8", your engine and pump need to be enough power and water for an 8", your fuel and regulations will be 8", so make your nozzle 8" too.

Unlike past years, DNR will have an strong presence in Nome this year.

Like Dan says, the port is full. The expansion might take a few years.

Your sluice box is way too long. Your hose will be way out front, or your box will be sticking out the back, neither is good, too much rocking in the waves.
[1 edits; Last edit by AK_Au_diver at 01:03:49 Wed Mar 28 2012]

  
Darkstar_Mining
01:56:33 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Ak Au diver..gotcha...question. was working a plan of deck mounting sluice.. is altitude from waterline on a pontoon boat going to create excessive rocking in waves beyond a safe limit.. have seen it done on fishing decks. can I beach the barge on west beach and pull it during rough weather? I will be mounting an engine now the permit calls for it and your right safety first, the skiff will just be transportation.

  
AK_Au_diver
02:26:17 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


Sluice on deck? How? How are you going to get your dredged material up that high? Your jet logs have to be in the water (unless you don't want a working dredge) so that means that your jet and flare will have to be quite steep. Steep flare and higher lift of dredged material means you need much more power to kick rocks and gold out of the flare AND you lose the setting benefit of the flare.

Ideally the flare would have a negative slope. I have a design for a jet/flare that has this feature, but it's impractical (without a secondary pump) because the sluice needs to be above water at the end and have a negative slope. The most practical flare angle is as low as possible, like up 10 degrees or so.

The end of your sluice box should be just above water line. You don't need a 16' sluice. 8' total sluice length is plenty for an 8", the width and settling is what matters. the vast majority of the gold will be in the first 2' if you do it right.

What doesn't matter much, and people argue this, is the height of the main water pump above water line, I have mine 3' off the water. It might use 5% more fuel, but it stays mostly dry. For efficiency and safety, get everything else as low as practical.


  
AK_Au_diver
03:41:11 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


The port of Nome has on-land year-round and winter storage at reasonable rates. I thought I covered that in my "How to be a Nome Dredger" post on here.

You are going to spend at least $40k on this project, you should spend $2k to $4k to fly up to Nome for a week or two this summer to check it out. You will save a lot of money doing a little field research. With all the mistakes, errors, and bad ideas I've caught, I'm sure there are dozens more that you would run into that can't be caught via a web forum.

Late July or August are good times, by then 75% of the new guys have sold or given away all the junk they brought up and left town.

  
Darkstar_Mining
03:49:50 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

yup my budget to arrive, not included operating cost is 30k. Havent looked at you how to post sorry.

  
bluewaterinvestor
04:51:36 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome (hiring staff)

Thanks for the reply...I guess.

I really didn't hear a serious answer to my serious question. If I'm not on the right topic, please advise where it would make more sense to post it.

As I said, we will be in Nome on June 1st and I'm looking for advice from locals about what the going rates are to hire crew to work an 8" dredge or work on our excavator barge. One of our managers would always be present, so the opportunity to steal from us or screw up should be minimized.

So, does anyone have any information for me about what an acceptable rate of pay would be for a 'good worker'? And, any info about where to advertise for them would be appreciated as well...



  
AK_Au_diver
05:37:52 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

Blue Water, try starting a new thread, I'm not sure why this thread has three topics going on.

Crews normally split some percentage of gross gold, the lease owner and dredge owner get the other percentages.

Operating expenses are split some way too. Some the owners pay all, others workers pay all, some owners and workers split, etc.

For 8" dredges crew percentages that I've heard range from 25% to 60%. Depends on lots of factors. Based on some sort of formula like ((dredger's dive hours)/(total dive hours))*(crew percentage). More complicated if you count deckhand hours, and/or unequal rates (like higher for more experienced divers).

Finding good crew is a crap shoot. If you don't know the people ahead of time, then it's really hard to get the right people.

  
Darkstar_Mining
15:53:27 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome

@ Bluewater Investor, I am building a dredge this year am about a third the way completed. I will be taking it up for 2013 season. I am looking for a position this year. If you are still looking to go this year, contact me at BROWNTREESPIRITS@gmail.com

A little about me. I'm a 32 year old white male with an excellent set of work ethics. I'm a jack of all trades, and a master of one. I have two children and a loving wife school teacher, so all summer of for me.. I am a man with a drive to finish a task put before me and see it through to the end. I spend the majority of my energy working on the future for them. This is the trade I have chosen to enter and have a lot invested already. If am willing to give up 4 months of my life every year with my family, I hope will show this isn't some boy in mom and dad's basement dreaming... hope to hear back from ya if not good mining, and hope to see ya 2013 there!

  
AK_Au_diver
23:44:44 Wed
Mar 28 2012

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Re: Dredging in Nome


There is no way you can camp in my yard. Nor do I have any work for anyone.

I recommend the Xcel Tri-Polar (they might have newer options). Key features form any suit are wetsuit (or "semi-dry"), thick neoprene (7mm+), front horizontal zipper (shoulder to shoulder), attached hood, correct for for your body. I also like good stretchy knee pads, not the solid rubber type; and I like ankle zippers. I buy mine from these guys: http://www.ssdsupply.com/ Don't bother them with Nome questions, and make sure you mention that you are a certified diver (they are a responsible vendor and will ask), actually lead with that. "Hi I'm almost completed with my diver certification here in [CITY], and I'm looking to buy a wetsuit appropriate for Nome, what do you recommend."

There is a Wells Fargo and a couple credit unions in Nome, there is no need to carry large amounts of cash. Nome is a modern city-like place.

You might be able to find some good housing options for that late in the summer. At the very least, the camping situation will be figured out, someone will likely report here the situation.

  

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