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Honza_Basta
20:32:42 Wed
Oct 3 2012

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Honza´s dredge and diving

Hi again, :welcome:
After a few years spent on the reconstruction of my house I finally build up my 4" dredge.





It works well and I started work with snorkel diving. Bud there are strict limits... So I am thinking about compressor system, like Keene etc.
One question - the reserve air tank - is it necessary?
keene reseve tank

Is it possible to use normal diving air regulator in combination with compressor?


I do not plan a great diving operations, but even weekend work in depth 3´ - 9´ is with snorkel somehow... ...difficult.


One more photo: how I warmed my lunch on the dredge


  
Fleng
17:34:29 Thu
Oct 4 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

I wouldn't skimp on the reserve air tank. You don't really need it until you really need it! I'd watch the proximity of the air intake and the exhaust fumes. On hospital rooftops, safety requirements are a 25-feet separation from the exhaust fans and the fresh air intakes and these aren't even loaded with carbon monoxide.

I like the lunch pail- It reminds me of the guys that cook their lunch by leaving it in an engine compartment. The dredge looks good too. Is that a 1:12 angle on the sluice?

  
Honza_Basta
20:10:50 Thu
Oct 4 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

I think, that if I would have to dive, the best way would be to buy complete set from keene or simmilar. It would reduce problems with tunning of the system.

The sluice on my drdge was sloped quite a lot, next time I used much lesser sloping.


  
markB
08:54:51 Fri
Oct 5 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

If you can stand up and breath air you may not need a reserve tank, they only supply very limited air if you run out of gas...engine stops your pump stops. In other words, if you dredge alone that small amount of air won't save your butt if trapped underwater. They will, however, give you a few breaths in deeper water to drop your belt and surface. They will also help cool the air somewhat.
A "simple" (single stage) regulator is all you need. I have four regulators and each one is different. They all will work but I have my favorite (bought off e-bay used) that seems to "work" much smoother and with less effort than the others.
Be careful picking out a hose...get one rated for air consumption. Cheaper hoses can give off "fumes" (ever drink water from a garden hose that has been laying in the sun...yuk).You mentioned a compressor, are you referring an air pump like a T-80?

  
rlh1946
18:15:54 Fri
Oct 5 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

FOR me the best part of a reserve tank...is if you are working hard moving some big rocks you might not run out of air if you run without you will.



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dredger
03:05:51 Sat
Oct 6 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving


Hey Honza,

I like the warm food idea, :smile:

As to the need of a reserve tank, ??, I used a small compact homemade hooker compressor separate from the dredge, which did not seem that difficult or troublesome, I had some 30ft of air line house, and no reserve tank,

My experience was that the 5hp B/s was very reliable at a low throttle, a Simple "tuffy compressor " on homemade mount, easy to move, and the air line always had many minutes of air in the line, so there was no problem for me, no mods to the dredge as they ran separate, I rarely ran out of fuel, cause I checked both all the time, easy, even when the dredge stopped, the compressor plugged on, and in fact I could and did allot of just "looking around " in the river bedrock further up or downriver because the hooka compressor was mobile, and easy to move,could even set up with own floatation,
Also like to suggest there is plenty of air left in the hose when it stops,
No I do not think regular regs are suitable for dredge hookers reg, ?
And I hope you will find snorkelling a waste of time once you have a good hooker set up, I dredge to be underwater as much as to be getting gold, diving is great fun,

Looking at u pics there are a few thoughts of my interest which i would like to suggest for the new guys,

I think I see a build up of rocks in the rear of the sluice, ?? which i suggest is not good, rocks are built up over the riffles /mesh / screen, not allowing any vortex or live sorting area action, anyone may run all day like this and blow out a lot of gold,?? My line of thought is Angle of the sluice and the velocity or water speed should maintain a strong vortex action, with live sorting areas in gold recovery areas be maintained at all times.
Next point is more of a mental illness and or a depression that comes over me when I see towering water pumps, and exposed jets, and the tail of a sluice raised 4in above water level. in my experience every few inches that a pump has to lift, or a jet have to push, especially above water level is "loss of suction, and waste fuel and shorter engine life".
To be quick, my line of thought is and please note the attached pic above, the exposed and above water level jet and lower jet tube, and the rear 6ins length or so of the sluice could be lowered between the pontoons and below water level, I would also suggest the Motor and pump be lowered so the intake plastic hose on the inlet of the water pump, attached to the foot valve is almost resting on the pontoon, engine and mounting bracket just above the sluice walls,
I would really hope, these mods would increase suction and effiency by %40,
Also far less blockages. In the hose and up to the jet. lower throttle speed required, with increased suction and hose water tube velocity, new guys should note, that the water tube velocity as it travels from nozzle to the jet, should be clearly visible as seen underwater, to be sufficient to move the smaller heavy sg rocks at the same velocity as the bigger lighter specific gravity rocks, this discourages larger rocks rolling on top of smaller rocks and jamming in the flexible hose, new guys should also note most dredge hoses are basically clear soft plastic, which helps in visually finding a blockage in the hose fast, and visually check to see if the bigger rocks are not jamming on smaller rocks, anytime,
In my experience only a few blockages a day is acceptable, bad rock shape like flat and sharp are not good,
More thoughts on having the rear of the sluice below water level are, 1, having the rear of the sluice out of the water, may enable a higher tailings pile, but this also quickly encouges the tailings to work and back fill their way back under the rear of the pontoons, and quickly changing the angle of the sluice/dredge,2,having the rear of the sluice below water level, allows the tailings pile to build up, then forces or washes the top of the tailings back and away from the dredge pontoons, which also causes the dredge to be propelled forward, with considerable force, which i suggest can be taken advantage of by using two anchor ropes at the rear, that are feed in at the rear of the pontoon, up to the front of the pontoon frame and tied off there, this allows the diver good control in placing the rear of the dredge quickly and easierly without having to get out of the water to shorten or lengthen ropes, very helpful when starting a new hole in shallow flow depth, please note when the dredge is turned off, the flow stops and the rear of the dredge rises and floats back onto the tailings pile, being a stable position for cleaning the sluice,
Sorry got to go, back asap. dredger.
Ps, good luck Honza.

  
Jim_Alaska
14:34:29 Sat
Oct 6 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

What a nice surprise to see our old friend "dredger" posting again after a long absence.

Glad to see you back Phill.:welcome:



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Jim_Alaska
15:30:42 Sat
Oct 6 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

In dredgers explanation of how to make Honza's dredge more efficient I noticed that he had suggested using two ropes at the rear to keep the dredge from moving foreward.

I used to use ropes to position the dredge where I wanted it and keep it from moving foreward. Recently some dredgers here have used steel pipe to do it faster and position the dredge in the exact postion you want. The poles also help you by not having to readajust the ropes constantly.

The idea is to weld one or two short pieces of pipe to the dredge frame. This will allow you to insert smaller pipes through these that you welded on to the dredge frame. I am including a picture to help us get the idea better.

These anchoring pipes, or rods will act as a "spud" for the dredge, just like the old bucket line dredges used, only smaller. They catch in the gravel under the dredge and hold it in position.

Of course this is for fairly shallow water. If the water is too deep they would not work.




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geowizard
15:50:08 Sat
Oct 6 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

Jim,

It always amazes me how "old ideas" become "new ideas".

I use the telescopic "Unistrut" for this purpose. With Unistrut, you can put a bolt through the one inch spaced holes in the telescoping sections and jack up the dredge to keep it level and avoid bouncing of the sluice as well as the sinking of the sluice when the box loads up.:smile:

Also, offshore dredges like the one in Nome that has the Excavator on board... or any other dredge for that matter. The spuds are adjustable. In shallow water it's an obvious solution to an old problem.


- Geowizard

  
dredger
03:50:45 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

Thanks Jim, I will keep trying to post,

I suggest both rope eyelets and spud mounts welded to the frame when the frame is built, rope eyelets and spud mounts should not be so heavy, so, my suggestion to new guys is to weld both on the frame, and because there are so many variables in dredging situations and sites, with the option of having either concept is definitely an advantage to any dredger. :smile:

  
Honza_Basta
11:31:52 Sun
Oct 7 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

Thank you for all the advices...

my dredge is after a few years finally working, but I know, that there is still place for tunning. I will modify the frame to lower it all, before testing I did not know, how high it will float. I will also try to apply that idea with tube / pole anchoring.

here are photos of my next project - small suice with 12V bilge pump. I used it on smalll stream, where is better to work silent with only shovel, screen - without engines.





2000GPH bilge pump, 11" wide sluice. 10" wide would be better for this amount of water.

  
markB
02:24:02 Mon
Oct 8 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

Clamp a couple of 1x2's or 2x4's to the inside of that box and you can reduce the width and also keep that carpet down better.

  
Honza_Basta
05:53:28 Mon
Oct 8 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

Thanks for idea, I will try it on thursday... ...since now I have 2 days of "normal" work.:mad:

  
dredger
05:47:47 Sun
Oct 14 2012

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Re: Honza´s dredge and diving

In hindsight, I agree with rlh1946 and when you are working hard a good reserve is required, but be sure that if you leave the reserve tank floating around it gets tangled in everything,especially drags in fast water,

Another suggestion is just my likes and dislikes, The jet,



testing,

  

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