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kaveman
00:06:59 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Strangely enough they eventually do go back to the ripper bucket on the 270 and tear up with that while bailing the paydirt away with the Daewoo/Doosan 350 or whatever it was. The ripper bucket seemed to work better with the home-made replacement link so I have to give them credit on that patch job.

Most of this season's episodes relate to stripping permafrost in one place or another, but all the stripping is done with Cats,....D9 and D10 this season,.......done with a D8 last year. Looks like a nightmare of a job. When they first break it up it isn't so bad, but when they don't get it pushed off quick enough it turns into just what it is,......a sea of muck. Driving around on your slope on tracks, I'd be terrified of sliding over the edge on a dozer.

Hey, I've got an idea. Rid yourself of all those diesel contraptions and get yourself a pick! Your claim looks to be set up perfectly for drifting in from creek level.

Have you got any idea as to the costs of trucking something like a ripper up to where you are? I'll be back out in Portland and Medford in a week and wouldn't mind shopping one up for you, but now that I think about it,.....the place in Medford was pretty firm at $3000 for the SEC and although it was nearly new, the only thing it had that my $500 ripper didn't have was 1/4" more clearance between the ears. I decided that if it took me a week with the grinder to get my clearance it would be a week of good pay.

  
dredger
02:18:35 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Hey Kaveman,

I wrote quite a post in reply to your links,posts, but it is dragging out as usual, so I will post yours asap.

Hey Dick,

I hope you have a quick hitch that enables you to to turn a bucket or ripper 180 degrees,

If so, and without any mods you could consider this,




testing,
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 02:20:28 Thu Mar 21 2013]

  
Jim_Alaska
02:32:40 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Kev talking about slippery conditions once the muck thawed reminded me of an incident I had last winter at the hardrock mine. This has nothing to do with rippers, but I thought it might provide a bit of amusement.

It was late winter/early spring. Time to plow the eight feet of snow off of the back side of the mountain road so we could get the dump trucks up to the mine site. This is a forest service road, narrow and not maintained.

We had an early melt that evidently allowed the water to penetrate the snow and form sheet ice under it. I had no idea at the time, and never slipped a track at all while plowing, didn't even know there was any ice there.

Topping out and starting down the back side seemed ok, except for snow building up on the blade of the D-8 to the point I could hardly see over it. But it was all downhill and seemed to push just fine.

Now on this side of the mountain, I have mountain on the left and a sheer drop-off on the right that is at least a thousand feet deep, sloping off to the valley below.

Everything went well and I got the road plowed all the way to the mine site. Turning around, I started back. No plowing now, it was all clear. Cooking along in third gear, I was making good time until I reached the back side of the mountain that sloped downhill.

Of course now what had been downhill on the way in, is uphill. With absolutely no warning the D-8 slid sideways toward the valley below at break-neck speed. To say my hair stood on end would be an understatement.

The only thing between me and certain death a thousand feet below was the snow berm I had pushed up on the way down.

At first I thought it was a freak happening. I just hit a patch of very slick, melting ice. But when I tried to move foreward again, I would no sooner get started than it would slide sideways again. It turned out that the whole road on the back side of the mountain was ice.

I don't mind saying I did some serious praying. I know that in Alaska they weld rebar across the growsers on the track to get traction, but in California? Who would have ever thought!!! Now the growsers are acting like ice skates,

If I took my feet off of the brakes the cat would start to creep backwards even with the blade down. Now here I am on this cat, on the back side of the mountain. Can't get off and leave it and can't move without sliding. It was a very tense time for a while.

I had no choice, I had to think of a way to move without sliding over the edge. I could see that the ice ended about thirty yards up the road, if I could just somehow make it there everything would be ok.

The decision I made was to try to move the cat while doing everything in slow motion. I only idyled the engine, lifted the blade and now came the tricky part. I had to let off both brakes exactly evenly. To let off one more than the other caused the track to slip and the cat would slide sideways again.

Engine idyling, slowly letting out on the brakes just enough to allow the cat to move and no hands on the steering levers, it began to creep foreward. If I had to steer at all I would have been in trouble and it worried me because my natural inclination was to get it away from the edge. But I couldn't, I had to just keep creeping foreward.

In any event it worked, but I have to admit that the experience took a toll on me emotionally as well as physically. I reached where the ice ended and all was well once again. This is one experience I hope to never have to go through again in this lifetime.

I consider it a miracle that the low, freshly pushed up snow berm stopped that D-8 from going over the edge.


Now back to the original topic of this thread.



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dredger
02:54:44 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Excellent post Jim,

I have a much better picture how tracks and ice are dangerous, I have not ever experienced ice or permafrost, but I now really understand Dicks concerns, and circumstances,

Plus, getting out of your situation slowly sounds like it is worth remembering, :smile:

Thanks,

Phill.

  
chickenminer
05:13:29 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Jim...
Ya, those are the "pucker factor" moments I was speaking of !
I've had more than my share and don't need any more, no siree, Bob !!



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Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
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chickenminer
05:25:47 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Kev,
Sometimes just the pick and shovel seems tempting!

Ya, the shipping from the West Coast is a killer. I see all kinds of great buys but always gotta figure those extra 000's in freight. Any ripper from the states is gonna cost be another 2k for freight.

Phil ....
The quick coupler would allow me to swap. Interesting idea ..... hmmm. Gotta give that more thought.

The frozen muck chunks come out of the bucket fine and with the thumb really no problem to handle.
I like your graphics :smile:
[2 edits; Last edit by chickenminer at 05:29:42 Thu Mar 21 2013]



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
dredger
06:43:40 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Dick,
Just read you last message, Phil ....
The quick coupler would allow me to swap. Interesting idea ..... hmmm. Gotta give that more thought.

The frozen muck chunks come out of the bucket fine and with the thumb really no problem to handle.
I like your graphics :smile:

That ok, but if the coupler did not, this next suggestion would have done that for you, reversed the hitch, ok frozen chunks, great, I am really getting a feel for your hard ground and frozen muck from the videos too, great stuff,
I was writing this before,

I think if you were able to use the boom rams together with the bucket ram, and lift up, ( yes there would be a learning curve learning to operate in ??, reverse, ) lift up not scrap down, I think your 300 is very capable of ripping up very well,
You could start ripping from the top layer, push them aside, and clumps would fall down, working a wide face, the excavator could work on one, while the loader clears the other face, ??
Most of your ripping would be done using the boom rams with just a little help from the dipper and a little help from the bucket ram, but I think you could make head way, considering you are a one man op, but to even test the idea, you will need to be able to reverse mount you ripper, when you get it, and you can do that,

Now as you consider my next suggestion, please note, I suggested that you pay for a expert opinion before you actually do it, I hope he will confirm my suggestions,
Ideally what you need is a face shovel concept to work a face situation, Face shovels are known or used excavate blasted materials as well rock as well as hard packed material, always working the face from below, only machine for working the face from below,
I Have got a little bit more graphics yet, will post now.
While you are waiting, check out my next glory hole toy,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQLUHbHDiI4
back asap,
phil.

  
dredger
09:49:44 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

This suggestion starts with welding 2 hydraulic ram mounts on your machine, and moving or refitting the ram on top of the boom, under the boom, and mounting or refitting the ram on the front of the dipper, to behind the dipper, and move the thumb from the back to the front, welding 2 hyd ram mounts , 1 under the boom, and a double ram mount on the back of the dipper,
Then you would have a combination, excavator or face shovel, just by changing the rams and hitch, I think you would be able to make a cradle that clamps on to rams, so you can lift them and change them around easy, for one guy, and the 200 lifting the cradle, may 3 hours to change over, my line of thought is you could use the face shovel for say half season for clearing the frozen muck, then change the rams back for excavator , to rip and dig the frozen gravels, for the rest of the season, maybe a 2 weeks either way, ??.
I suggest having 2 rams on the dipper, well that is what you already have if your thumb is hydraulic, would present a few choices to bucket, ripper, thumb, attachments, for example, a ripper and a thumb, or ripper and a v shaped twin ripper thumb, then quick change the ripper for matching v-shaped twin ripper teeth, thumb clam shell buckets with full size rams x 2, ouch what a bit, 1.5 or 2 cu mt, why not 3 cu. ??.
Actually you could leave the original rams were they are, and fit 2 extra equal size rams and have face shovel or excavator at the flick of a switch, ??
I think there are many combinations.
I have another idea on disposing of the black muck too,
Dick, mate, I hope i do not offend you in begging you have to find people in your area, to build you a ripper and trick buckets, who have the scrap steel just lying around, find the people, find the scrap, buy teeth ect and arrange everything, if you do not like doing this type of design and fabrication, find a local who does, please. I see lots of guys making and fixing and welding heavy steel in your videos,

Testing.

  
dredger
15:16:53 Thu
Mar 21 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper


Hey Kavman,

I was writing a long post on the ripper video when you posted, I will add it to the end of this, but not finished yet,
I watched allot more utube vids and found allot more , wow,
I found the video with the twisted pusher arm, very interesting, I watched the lot many times, I would think the twisting bucket caused that, but agree nice repair too,
A tip there for the new guys, is when you are welding bits like the fabricated pusher arm, when using the pin to line it up, to tact weld, remember that cooling tact welds twist the bushes and jamb the pin, so tack and let cool and twist the pin, again and again, be careful, and keep twisting the pin, checking checking untill everything is firmly tacked in place,

If I was trying to get a excavator over a steep hill, I would have lift balance the machine into the hill. and extended the arm, to slewed around against the wall, gently, placed the bucket and push / lift walk myself up to better ground, he was definitely not thinking,

Broken idler, Why,?? all that banging on hard rock’s while scratching up very little, and banging the heck out of a idler pin, an idler pin or axle shaft usually has a flat square plate the slides in a slot, by the looks of that one, someone should have seen or be checking well before it let go, that should have been seen on the morning check,
New guys please note once the idler pin breaks, the idler is trapped, walking or driving on that jamb idler will cause further wear, and damage,
The only answer to any track problem is to have lots of practice walking a machine on one track, any operator should have enough practice to walk a machine on one track and out of the mud and hole, as second ( well practiced ) nature, to get out of the machine and fully access the problem, please not in the mud, if repairs are needed, walk the machine on one track back to the work shop area, or out of the way, do not drive on it, you are only grinding the track chain on the jamb idler gear, practice to be able to get 1/4 to one 1/2 normal tracking speed, ( not in Rabbit mode, )
Another good trick is whenever you are having anything to do with a machine, check the idler wheel adjustment grease ram, so you loosen the grease nipple and lift the machine applying pressure of the weight of the track to the idler, until some grease comes out of the grease nipple, showing the idler (greased ) piston moves and is free and not seized in, big bad trouble fixing a seized grease piston tensioner, big problem, I just hate it, close the grease nipple and pump new grease in / adjust to where the track chain cannot slip off, ok, if you operate a machine with a seized piston, soona or later the track wears a little, or just enough for the right rocks to slip the track over the idler, and you cannot release the seized piston to relief the tension on the idler, and you will believe you will never get the track on before you may fluke it , or not,
On the other hand, or should i say the other end, there is the drive motors, when these get banged and banged, I see small planetary gears being chipped or cracked, tiny bits of gear hard facing chipped off, bearing surfaces to, a tip with final drives is to check and recycle gear oil regally, more then manufacturers specs, easy to check for fine metal chips in the final drives is make sure the drives have been used for 30 mins, park the machine on an angle so the final drive oil all runs out when the plug is removed, catch the oil in clean container, filter the oil through fine cloth materials, dark coloured, black or red, then lift the machine and drive the free track until the plug is at the top, half a turn, pour the filtered clean oil back in the drive, and reposition the machine on an angle to drain the other drive, do the same, and compare the metal chips on the filter rags in direct sunlight, if one is more metal then the other, check again after a days work, you can detect a failing bearing or drive gear quickly and easerly, and replace it before it grinds everything, big dollars compared to a few bearing or gears,
It is getting late, so I will leave my concerns about the water fall and the way that machine was being shocked, real hard shocking grinding, causing failures, when if he only had a ripper, he could have done what i have done many times before, ( only on a smaller scale, ), and it was real fun, not torture, I have a really good "rant " on that water fall, I dreamt how I would have done it last night after seeing the water fall on u-tube, and I will dream the same sweet dream again tonight I hope,
Last thought before bed, a small quickly made ramp is the best shock absorber for accidental shocks, no big rocks please, it is all about protecting the ends of the track, lower track idler rollers are heaps stronger and easy to replace, or check for wear in just minutes, do it the safe way, wear in idlers can also be easerly detected, by lifting the machine off the tracks and feel each roller turns in your hands real quick, any resistance use a small crow bar to check for play, and check for leaks, and have one good spare roller to change id any defects or wear are found, the worn roller is then gets new or reconditioned seals and new bushes, and is usually good to go, sometimes you have to replace a shaft,
check this for a bumpy ride, some people think running a machine like this is taking longer to make more money, but I would suggest I could rip the job, and take long enough to make just as much money, and save the machine wear and tear,
Kaveman I will save the suggestion on the ripper video, to a bit later, I think I am mixing up posts and subject,
back asap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54E2mnBPgM&list=PLFA05D8E4AD93E469&feature=endscreen&NR=1

  
dredger
06:10:09 Sat
Mar 23 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Hey Kaveman.

I watched and studied as many referrals concerning the water fall excavation, ( bits of the video), unknowingly to me, I was actually focused on the alluvial gravels in and around the water fall, hard packed gravels, bedrock buckets skidding over rock hard packed gravels, feeling and knowing I had been there, done that, bucket skidding over alluvial rock hard packed ancient gravels,

I do rip and dredge these gravels, on a much smaller scale, and I think you do to, which also spent thousands of years in the packing harder, and find them in high benches working by the old timers, and please note the Dam I have been digging, as per pic above,

So, I think it fair for me to assume that my hard pack Alluvial gravels are pretty much the same as the hard packed around that water fall, and considering specific experience in excavators and dredging with excavator type passion,

I would suggest this as next years or future agenda's, doing a water fall, one might have a scenario as follows,
The smaller excavator has shown how it scraps on hard pack, and then it half ripped the hard pack, (they all said the three tooth bucket was until it broke, and was later seen to being used again, proving the solution was a ripper type concept, and I can imagine that type of bucket would be hard to work, but as can be seen in the video’s it was used again,

(at this point I am assuming that the bottom of the water fall was not cleaned out, and surrounding gravels investigated, )

I fit a ripper to the?? 26 ton excavator, and drive it to the top of the ramp and select a site on the right, back into the hill, to ripe an area big enough to allow a Volvo 6x6 truck to drive in enough to reverse out and down the rest of the ramp,
The line of thought being 1 truck is loading, an empty truck is waiting in the turnaround area, the loaded truck pulls passed, the empty one can reverse down,
Note to self, locate area to dump as close as possible to the top of the ramp,
So a quick rip and the big excavator working together to get it done quick, , then the ripper is used t down the inside wall of the hill perhaps 6-8' wide /deep, while the bigger excavator removes and loads it on to the first truck., and any payable gavels are thrown in the hole, the idea is cut by ripping, into the rock seen in the video's using the ripper, please note closer to the bottom of the hole on the ramp is some protruding hard looking rock, I would suggest the ripper could and would easierly rip 6' into that face, Not the waterfall face, with the line of thought that trucks will be using the ramp 24/7 none stop, good solid road for long term use,
Then the ripper goes into ripping the hole in front of the water fall, rip all around the area, easy reach for the big excavator bucket, the ripper machine moves back and the big bucket, comes in and digs around until he is on and feels a un ripped bottom level, left by the ripper, (operator, ) basically like a dish, were the gravels and rocks are basically washed and broken up by the ripper, washed as can be seen in the video,
The bigger bucket skims the lager rocks, and loads them in the truck, the operator thinking gold pan full fresh rocky rich gravels and how wash and settle the heavies causes the bigger rocks to the surface, dropping the gold to the bottom of the pan, and only skimming the smaller gravels leaving a metre deep loose gravels and gold, then the ripper moves in and rips deeper, Perhaps finding bed rock, and the base of the water fall,
Back asap. Got to eat,

  
dredger
06:01:07 Sun
Mar 24 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

OH, here is a tip or trick, for really big bolts that break, leaving a good length of bolt, as seen in the video, the plant mechanic got it out pretty quick, that takes alot of experience, and could have turned really bad if he had accidently touched the exposed thread with the electrode, destroying the thread, or slag welded itself into the thread would stop unscrewing the bolt, and that would be harder to fix, so when you, yes baby you , do your first broken bolt, on your machine, I suggest this method,
Ok, drill a hole through the broken bolt, and look at the head of the bolt which showed oxidization on the thread where it was broken, possibly suggesting that the reason why it broke in the first place was because the bit left in the hole is badly rusted into the outer case,, the broken bolt thread has oxidized “ into and with “ the oxidizing opposing thread surface, guessing around %40 tensile strength to break it free, so next is heat, heat it up red hot and don’t start a fire, no wait, not the fire, let’s use a real “ penetrate” , something that in a little time will dissolve all the oxidation, tetrachloroethylene, yum yum,
Basically found at the bike shop and used for chains on bikes, lubricant penetrate, reduces , wear, protects, used myself last 20 years, speaking of which, a few little home test can be done to prove that it dissolve s oxidation,
1, Put it on the rustiest pair of pliers you can find, Saturate and in 2 days you can move the arms, amazing, keep working them and it frees up,
2, in auto mobile manufacture 60 -90 it was a habit to hold interior plastic trim by screwing a pressed thin metal nut onto a plastic shaft, which after all that time, the metal nut cutting edge has rusted into the plastic, and any attempts to remove or move the nut, tighten or un-tighten, the plastic shaft snaps, so for the 15 years, I have got heaps of nuts off, by first saturating the nut and leaving for a bit, and never broke another plastic shaft again,
3, find any push bike chain the is rusted mostly tight saturate, and 2 days later it is free, looking like a clean metal chain, ,
Works for me,
:smile:

  
Coeur_D_Alene
08:32:08 Sun
Mar 24 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Hi Chicken Miner I was wondering if this thing would do permafrost.

http://www.mascus.com/construction/used-mining-equipment/rahco/cme-12+continuous+excavator/images/flckbudi.html

1985 RAHCO CME-12 Continuous Excavator, s/n CME1254436, is capable of excavating at a capacity of 630 – 900 tons per hour. It has a CAT 3408 Diesel engine, 416 hours, front-mounted cutter, feed conveyor, underhung transfer chute, rear mounted discharge conveyor. Designed for open pit coal mining, but is an efficient system for other uses. New price approx. $4,000,000.00
$675,000.00 Spartanburg, South Carolina

Maybe find one older and cheaper, ..... Is frozen muck harder than Coal??? "V"
[3 edits; Last edit by Coeur_D_Alene at 08:48:27 Sun Mar 24 2013]

  
dredger
01:33:15 Mon
Mar 25 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

OOps, I forgot to mention this in the last post,

yum yum,

Once the penetrate has soaked and lubes the thread, use an "easy out " to remove the broken bolt, although I can usually use a screw driver to unscrew the broken bolt,
I like using this method, cause I can use 24volt drill powered off the digger, or battery drill to drill the hole, I don't have to drag a generator or welder to the machine, and no heating one end of the frame to red hot, looks bad too.
back asap.

  
chickenminer
04:40:09 Mon
Mar 25 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

C_D_A ...
Well that's quite the machine! My limited experience with coal is that coal is pretty soft stuff.
Don't think that contraption would work very efficient
in permafrost.
Would be fun to give it a go though:smile:.
Thanks for the post!
[1 edits; Last edit by chickenminer at 04:41:54 Mon Mar 25 2013]



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
charlene91
17:40:37 Mon
Mar 25 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

OK ONE MORE TIME AND YOU ALL WILL NOT HEAR FROM ME AGAIN ON THIS SUBJEBT ..I HAVE NAD DEALINGS WITH PERMFORST OUT SIDE OF FAIRBANKS AFTER WE CLEARED AWAY THE BLACK SPRUCE AND MOSS AND AFTER EXPOSED THE PERMFORST TO THE SUN LIGHT AND WARM SUMMER AIR IN 4TO 5 DAYS WE WERE ABLE TO MOVE THE SILT AND GET TO THE GRAVEL ...NOW I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT TAKES PATICENCE BUT IT DOES WORK AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU BOYS LIKE ALL OF THOSE BIG TOYS

  
Coeur_D_Alene
19:31:43 Mon
Mar 25 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Dick;
I suppose a break down with the machine full of muck, no way to move it or get it clean...Well then muck would refreeze back together in the contraption, and there she'd sit froze like the muck in the muck until spring....eh?

But I think summer time muck might just blow through this if you catch it at the right consistency, but that would probably be a small window of opportunity, also you would have to time your bites into the muck with the time it takes to cycle a dump truck load.

  
dredger
05:15:37 Tue
Mar 26 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper



:smile:

  
dredger
03:58:45 Tue
Apr 2 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Hey Jim, Dick,

Wow,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjq9shhBIA
Moon walking ,
:smile:
phil.

  
chickenminer
05:33:57 Tue
Apr 2 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Phil,
Hmmm (scratching my head) ... I'm trying to figure out the point of that whole video ?!?
Okay, it's slick out. Lousy traction. When that happens to me on the hoe I usually cuss a lot !

BTW... I'm trying to find an old ripper shank off a D-8 ripper
that I can use to build my own excavator ripper.
[1 edits; Last edit by chickenminer at 05:36:10 Tue Apr 2 2013]



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
dredger
10:44:00 Tue
Apr 2 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Hey Dick,

After watching the gold show on video I see slipping on ice is quite a problem, I would like to see your tracks plates, cleats? or whatever you did to your tracks, ??.

It would be handy to solve the problem of slipping on ice, ??

Happy to hear you are making your own ripper, do you have any ideas yet, ?? About the head plate, and ears,??.

I found this video, thought you might find it interesting, :smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=1LtXfzJGW-E&feature=endscreen
Ripper in concrete, it appears this guy is only ripping the top of the concrete drive way, Please note he is not having any trouble ripping good hard concrete, I have never experienced frozen alluvial gravels, So I can’t say anything, but I am thinking your ripper will work very well in frozen alluvial gravels, ˝ frozen ice, ˝ frozen gravel, ???.


  
Jim_Alaska
15:09:20 Tue
Apr 2 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

If you wait to see the close-up of those tracks you will see that there are no cleats on the pads. That would be slick under most circumstances.



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Jim_Alaska
15:12:30 Tue
Apr 2 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Phil, the normal remedy for ice conditions if to weld short pieces of rebar on top of the cleats of the track pads. This lets the track get a "bite" in the ice and prevents side slipping.



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dredger
04:31:16 Wed
Apr 3 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Thanks Jim,
I am just curious because any slipping while ripping would make it really hard to rip quickly.
I wonder is rebar a remedy or just helps a little, ??? ,
I should imagine if slipping on frozen muck or frozen gravels can be stopped all together, that would result in maybe a month or two longer mining either end of the season for Dick, and the guys in the mining video,
If I remember correctly, in the gold rush video series, the young guy had to end the season cause of frozen ground, he would have got good gold for the season if he could have keep digging for a week longer,, or next season he could start earlier if he could rip frozen ground,
Same with the miners with the big blue trommel, ??. Frozen ground stopped them too,
I also think there would be great advantage in being able to get a big excavator on top of the frozen muck, high up the bench, frozen or not, no slipping, to drill test holes, what are we talking here, 10 or 20 test holes, maybe 30 tests ,a day all drilled with a excavator,
hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etVnewXZQvMoles a day,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe7kULYvDKM
In Australia, in the opal fields, miners drill holes in dry hard ground, 3' dia, 18 metres deep, ( testing for the opal layers ) and I was thinking dry hard or frozen hard, ok, in placer, when you hit big rock the drill would certainly tell you, and you would have to dig by hand, or just move over,
I would also suggest using say 3 home made steel frame platforms, with long spikes that will spike in any muck or gravel frozen surface, even on a slope, even for using in ripping, used like this, ,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNNUoqBKdE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfVKY8ZGXXM
Just trying to help “ extend “ the mining season,
[3 edits; Last edit by dredger at 23:21:05 Wed Apr 3 2013]

  
chickenminer
19:47:04 Wed
Apr 3 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Phil,
Welding ice cleats on the grousers is no remedy. You still slide around, but it is better than flat grousers! There is a happy medium you have to acheive because the ice cleats in the summer cause a RUFF riding machine on rocks/bedrock !

Thanks for posing the drill videos. I was surprised how slow he could turn that auger. That is a key element in drilling frozen ground.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
Jim_Alaska
19:56:23 Wed
Apr 3 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

Dick is right. The ice cleats mainly help in keeping from sliding sideways. They don't do a whole lot for traction when ripping or pushing on ice and snow.



---
Jim_Alaska
Administrator
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
dredger
23:21:56 Wed
Apr 3 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper


  
dredger
06:11:10 Thu
Apr 4 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper



Dick,
No worries, I like drills too, and speaking of " pucker " I hope you never have to climb straight up and straight down a 18 mtr deep drill hole ladder, ( just thinking about it makes me dizzy, you climb down the ladder, then I thought about climbing back up the whole time i was down there, )what a double pucker that was,
Suggestion for you,

1, is high bench, side on view,
2, frozen vegetation,
3, frozen black muck,
4, frozen gravels,
5, bedrock high bench, on right current river bedrock level,
6, is excavator moving in and out on a pad of processed river gavels,
7, 3’ orga
8, is first bore hole.
9, is bore hole under first bore hole. Pink line is gavels between bore holes, to be removed by bogger, 6’ x 3’ tunnel.
10, is gravel bored out , just falls down slope, as the orga is pulled out,
11, is work face area at the end of the tunnel,
Then you dig with this,
Hyd Tunnelling excavator ripper, extensively used in opal mining, Australia, ( fast as a one claw cockroach on steroids, ) cheap , compact, so strong, actually at this point, I should mention there is a ram that runs vertical to lock the unit in place in the tunnel, ( can be seen in pic, )although a horizontal ram configuration would also lock it into place, working one of these was a interesting experience, no machine / engine noise, no movement in the digger controls and you are standing, a video game, or you can have a seat, and the only hyd digging machine that do not move or jump around while operating, it locks in place, and defiantly over powered to rip 100 million years old layers of hard packed gravels 18 metres deep, great fun, a little giant monster, hyd give off heat for the operator, but do not think it would be enough to cause a problem in a frozen tunnel, leave / stack all the big rocks in the tunnel,???. Dig tunnels on angles,

Remote control, walk behind hyd loader dump truck, bogga,

The digger and loader run on hyd lines plugged into a excavator, or small hyd /diesel= outside,
Good one man operation, the digger rips enough materials then moves out of the way, and the loader moves the material, two man operation, is faster but the loader double handles, makes it really quick, please note there are no big rocks in opal mining, but I would have a go, better then pick and shovel. And you can make them yourself,
These cleats and slipping on ice are a worry, the only suggestion I can think of is that when you try ripping a face above and in front you, and you are ripping " up " ( the ripper reversed) you build or rip a angled pad on small river gravels that leans into the face,
If you are ripping down the front of the face the machine wants to lift the tracks, so perhaps tilting the pad backwoods might give you more perch and less lift // skid and more rip,, ??.
Last idea is if you have a elect generator, sealed unit, 18hp or above you could mount that behind the cab, just for testing, and use the compartment behind the cab to hide side in a compact heater unit, powered by the generator, hot air , and I mean really hot air, could be ducted or blown on to the under carriage frame and tracks, perhaps a light rubber skirt around the slew ring area, I think the undercarriage and tracks would transfer the heat to under the machine area well. Slow and hot air, ??.
Bacon and eggs only one hour after start up, on the track plate would be great, My line of thought is just to melt a few inches of frozen gravel would improve traction, even just softening the surface of the frozen gravels, ????, heated track muffins, ha,

  
dredger
06:52:45 Sat
Apr 6 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper


Ok , out of the many hours spent on u-tube I suggest these few vids are most relative to ripping, sorry no 20ton, 30ton, 40ton machines ripping below ground level, I could not find any,
,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Mww2cntF0mk&NR=1
ripping vertical face, machine is jumping around, very slow ripping, or actually moving dirt,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1-7NXRJf4I
Ripping and moving forward on higher ground , machine jumps around a little, lifting tracks,, dropping, but can and is ripping some hard ground effectively .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHB2XdfcSVo
Reverse ripping. Small machine in soft dirt shows “ my best method “ were the machine rips and moves back, rips again, moves back over “ a large area “, , then he quickly scoops out the ripped loose materials with a bucket,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oWlOVW83go this is a 67ton machine powerful and heavy, ripping and digging very hard rock, quick “ at and below machine / ground level” , easy on the machine, very little rocking the machine, good dipper speed during rip, and maximum mechanical advantage , please note he only uses short rips, ??. new guys please note
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0KvY0q0tQM
225 loading light stuff quickly, similar to ripped materials.
?v=JPUgt6mvMMo
loading truck quickly,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQy5Ejm44Ww
in the mud, and a reminder that it is always worth taking the time to make good ramps and roads,

  
dickb
15:33:24 Sat
Apr 6 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

"reminder that it is always worth taking the time to make good ramps and roads".

I absolutely agree. No way would I allow the machines near the face of that cut. Start at the rear of the bench and cut a road that slopes back toward the high side if the cut so there is no way that the machine can slide toward the face and drop over the edge. That would be a real killer.

Dickb

  
dredger
00:57:44 Mon
Apr 29 2013

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Re: Excavator Ripper

I would suggest new guys please note, my rule of thumb is a ripper length is relative to the weight of the excavator, and length of the dipper, and the ground or rock or hard pack to be ripped,
So, starting with say,
20ton excavator, short to medium dipper, short to med boom, ripper length = 24”
30ton excavator, short to medium dipper, short to med boom, ripper length = 36”
40ton excavator, short to med dipper, short to med boom ripper length = 48”
On the other hand, and in a specific method ,( dredging with a excavator ) my line of thought is in river gravels that are full of larger rocks, I suggest that a longer ripper may be advantageous if the focus of the operation is to drop the gold “ through “ the gravels and bring the larger rocks to the surface for removal, ( pre classification of bigger rocks ) before using a suction dredge type concept to clean the bedrock,
I (20 ton) would like to try a 48” ripper length in wet river rocky gravels, new guys please note, even though these river gravels are wet, there is still allot of mud, / clay sucking and holding on big rocks, so digging with a wide bucket is not easy,
back asap, :smile:

  

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