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geowizard
14:02:52 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Winter projects?

I'm back in Arizona and have a long list of winter projects!

I want to replace my production screen at Ophir with a trommel. So, I captured four military 55 gallon barrels that I plan to cut out the ends and assemble into a 16 ft long trommel including the screen section. I will make a prototype here in AZ first so I can work out the bugs with time not being a factor.

I'm also starting a business fabricating reverse helix recovery systems. The reverse helix systems are a complete, compact system that uses minimal water.

Also on the drawing board is a complete line of trommel screens from small clean-up trommels to full scale production trommels.

What are your plans for winter projects? :smile:

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 14:03:36 Thu Oct 3 2013]

  
micropedes1
15:38:11 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Geo, I seem to remember that standard barrel thickness is 18 gage mild steel. Any idea what the thickness is on the military grade barrels?

I am wondering how long that they will last in a small operation (thicker is better, right?)

  
geowizard
16:19:32 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

micropedes1,

Yes, you are correct. The US Army, "Combat" 55 gallon barrels are about two to three times heavier than the current "DOT approved" tin cans. They also have a hefty ring around the top and bottom - keeps 'em circular.

So, my intention is to build a trommel with a life time that has certain spec's.

1. The lifetime needs only to be compatible with my remaining lifetime - I'm not building this to last three lifetimes!

2. The capacity needs to be able to handle 20 to 50 cubic yards per hour.

3. The materials need to be off the shelf in remote Alaska or shippable and transportable on light aircraft.

4. Assembly should be possible using hand tools and light weight power tools without the need for a 200 Amp towable welder.

5. It should be able to be easy to remove and replace screens or disassemble and transport locally.

6. It needs to be reliable and not require frequent maintenance.

- Geowizard

  
dickb
17:35:24 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

I think that is do-able. but I'm not sure the barrel size would handle the 20 yards per hour.
My email is xxxxx and if you email me your email address, I'll send you a sketch I just did. Pretty crude, but it will give you some food for thought.
You would need 1 flange that was 3" smaller than the barrel dia and 4" larger than the dia for the first ring. Then 8 flanges that would weld to each section and bolt together. Then the last flange that was the inside dia of the barrel and 4" larger that the barrel so the rollers would lock the trommel in place.
Then make to double roller frames that can be lag bolted to a couple long logs to act as the frame and skid. The loading hopper is the big part and you would have to make it so it is bolt together so it would ship small enough to fly in.
Dickb
[1 edits; Last edit by dickb at 21:19:38 Thu Oct 3 2013]

  
geowizard
19:50:32 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

dickb.

Cool! :smile:

That's pretty much how I have it planned.

The trommel would have the barrels tied together with inside lengths of angle iron or aluminum "longerons". The right angle material will force the gravel to roll as the trommel turns and also run across a 5 ft open section that has screen wrapped externally and bolted to the longerons.

Yes, the trommel will have a support frame made of 2 1/2 inch unistrut that is already on location. This is beefy unistrut and works well for this type of construction.

Drive:

I have a winch that was acquired this summer. The winch is about 1000 pounds in total weight and operates using a hefty right angle AC electric drive. The drum has no cable on it. The drum is about 24 inches wide, has a 12" diameter and about 24" over-all spool diameter. It is variable speed and runs at about 10 RPM. I envision running a conveyor belt between the winch and the OD of the trommel. There seems to be plenty of used conveyor belt material in the surplus market. It can be bought, cut to size and connected with piano hinge material or standard belt splicing products available online. www.conveyorbelt.com

- Geowizard

www.moore-creek.com
www.ophir-alaska.com
www.alaska-gold.com
www.stampede-gold.com

[3 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 19:55:38 Thu Oct 3 2013]

  
geowizard
21:45:04 Thu
Oct 3 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


dickb is correct. A cubic yard is a lot of material.

This summer, a neighbor (a retired ER doctor) was boasting about how many cubic yards his 4" suction dredge could mine. I asked him;

"Do you know how big a cubic yard is?!!" :smile:

"%&LL yes, I do!" He said... Well...

Here's how big it is:

One cubic yard is 202 gallons (approx.)

That's almost four 55 gallon barrels! :gonetoofar:

- Geowizard

  
Fleng
17:13:42 Fri
Oct 4 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

One thing that I've been wondering about is why most washplants/trommels depends upon a loader to feed paydirt.
If there was a conveyor with some kind of regulator configured to feed the paydirt at a specific range of material, an expensive piece of heavy equipment would be freed up for other tasks. Watching the operator try to ease a load of paydirt into a hopper takes time away from excavating.
A similar issue is feeding gravel into a sluice. Too fast and you risk loading up your riffles but too slow and you waste water. I'm going to look into a small conveyor system for my Gold Cube so that the classifying/feeding process is automated. The advantage is that once it is set up you can occupy yourself with collecting bulk pay dirt and overseeing the system without the worrying about the rate of feed.
Anyone interested?

  
shaftsinkerawc
18:33:57 Fri
Oct 4 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

We should always be interested in idea's, it's the way we learn! Are you trying to auto feed cons to your cube?

  
geowizard
02:32:33 Sat
Oct 5 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Fleng,

You provided an excellent lead - in for my next subject.

Conveyors! :smile:

For years, I have had a fear of conveyors - I call it a case of "conveyor phobia". Often times, others have these same phobias but are afraid to discuss them on public forums. :confused:

Conveyors always seem to come in the wrong size, cost too much, need repair, have problems with reliability, and the list goes on. I think that's why I have had a problem with conveyors.

Make or buy?

Where can you even buy a conveyor? Yes, there are plenty of worn out, used conveyors on ebay and craigslist. And... they meet all of the wrong criterion, i.e. all of the above problems!

The Solution:

A conveyor actually isn't too hard to make! Yes, it's possible to make a conveyor with average DIY skills.

Yes, they can be low cost and custom built to suit any application. The materials amount to:

a couple of steel beams,
a couple of cross supports,
four pillow block bearings,
two axels,
two cylindrical drums,
a gear drive or belt drive
and a belt.
Misc. hardware for tensioner

Another great winter project!

- Geowizard

  
Rod_Seiad
16:06:15 Sat
Oct 5 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

You guys are right! A loader conveyor should be on our wish list.

Variable speed control.

Height adjustable.

Self supporting.

Wheeled for foundation and moveability.

Ready-mix concrete and asphalt batch plants have the engineering already working. We need to adapt their developments for our custom requirements. Used parts and out of commission conveyors get smashed into scrap iron everyday.

I dream of a conveyor at ground height, water wash grizzly prior to the belt feeder and mobility. Running oversize thru your recovery system puts an extra strain on the equipment and lowers quality of the concentrates.

  
geowizard
17:22:33 Sat
Oct 5 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Rod,

Like this one? :confused:




It's only $114,000 (2012 list price, not including taxes and shipping)

- Geowizard

  
growler
16:19:55 Sun
Oct 6 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Simple type, plain conveyors ( c-type) for ideas. Jim http://www.redlineconveyors.com/

  
geowizard
22:01:44 Sun
Oct 6 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

growler,

"Now, that's what I'm talkin' about!"

I will look those conveyors over closely.

With reference to the MSI conveyor, above...

The grizzly is a remote control dump grizzly shown in the dump mode.

I bought a 12 volt hydraulic pump and cylinder for a dump trailer a few winters ago to be used in a remote control dump screen on my wash plant.

I have too many winter projects! :confused:

- Geowizard

  
Muley
04:49:41 Mon
Oct 7 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Geo,
Here is a plant of a friend of mine. The grizzly bin holds about 15 yards of material and feeds onto a short conveyor that feeds the longer one that feeds the trommel. The unit was built so that it could be run by one person including the transfer of raw material from a pit a half a mile away.





State of the art over 1,000,000. hr equipment.



My restored Dixie doodlebug trommel.

  
Muley
05:20:43 Mon
Oct 7 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Back to the subject of "Winter Projects" Here is my latest one that will probably last a couple of "Winters"





It is powered by a 1938 1.5 hp Fairbanks -Morse hit and miss engine that runs the barrel, water pump also Fairbanks - Morse and sluice box shaker with 2" flat belts. If anyone knows who built it let me know, I have checked several sources and cant find anything. I would like to restore it back to factory colors and lettering if possible. Then take it out and use it.

  
Rod_Seiad
14:46:06 Mon
Oct 7 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Heck Muley,

Ferrari red, corvet yellow and gloss black pin striping. A touch of stars and stripes with an abundance of gold leaf lettering. No you don't dare scratch that beauty. :smile: :smile:


  
geowizard
15:32:53 Tue
Oct 8 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


For conveyor projects, here's a good link:

http://www.douglasmanufacturing.com/index.php3

This site provides terminology and engineering information as well as definition of conveyor configurations.

- Geowizard

  
chickenminer
20:41:43 Wed
Oct 9 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Geo,
Good luck on that trommel project. It will be hard to get any kind of yardage through a drum that small unless you use a looong screen section and/or large mesh screen.
From experience I know it is tough getting more than 40yd/hr through my 4' dia drum that has 5' of 1" mesh
screen, without crowding.
This is especially true for running tailings! I ran a couple bulks tests of tailings here this summer. Tailings run sooo easy that the best I could do was 30yd/hr or I had horrible crowding of the screen.

I would always lean toward more screen area than solid drum.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
chickenminer
20:52:45 Wed
Oct 9 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Unfortunately... most of my winter projects are confined to indoors (other than sinking prospect holes).

So, after using the Gold Cube all of this summer, I have come to the conclusion that this winter's indoor project will be to redesign a tray of the Cube for better coarse gold recovery.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
geowizard
23:22:33 Wed
Oct 9 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Dick,

Thanks for the advice! I'm getting new batteries for my calculator. :smile:

I don't have a clay problem - unless I run the blue gumbo. So, with very little clay, The trommel is working to screen and pass 12 mesh gold. I managed to sample into higher grade gravel and if the grade holds, I don't need to run a high volume operation like I did before.

- Geowizard

  
chickenminer
02:55:12 Thu
Oct 10 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Chuck,
I understand your wanting to use local materials and ease of construction on this project. But I would rather see you put that time into something that will withstand the use/abuse.
Even the heavy military drums are light duty for what you want, in my opinion.

If it were me, I would have two pieces of 1/4'' or 3/16" material
rolled into a 'drum'. Say around 28"-30" dia. One piece 4' long for the upper end, the other 18" or so for the lower end.
Then just use some angle iron for the bridge pieces. This length would depend on how much screen you want.
You could use bolts to fasten this all together and prefab it all before hauling out to Ophir.

Not only will the heavier material last longer, you will be able to feed coarser material into the plant. I really hate 'grizzlies' on the feed end on anything and with something as light duty as you proposed, it would require you to extensively prescreen material.

Just my opinion, but in the end a guy does what he has to do. I'm sure your project will work fine to a certain extent.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
micropedes1
20:53:22 Thu
Oct 10 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Dick, what is the life expectancy of a trommel made from that 1/4" material? Grizzly or no grizzly?

  
peluk
02:13:01 Sat
Oct 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Dick,what size is the coarse gold you want to capture in "The Cube"?

  
chickenminer
03:44:02 Sat
Oct 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Quote: micropedes1 at 20:53:22 Thu Oct 10 2013

Dick, what is the life expectancy of a trommel made from that 1/4" material? Grizzly or no grizzly?


That would depend on a number of factors and without knowing those, it would be a mere guess.
Many, many years though.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
chickenminer
03:52:54 Sat
Oct 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Chick...
I am going to resurrect the old Gold Cube thread and add my findings from this summer.
In a nutshell, to me the Cube has excessive gold loss if anything over abt 18 mesh is run through it.



---
Dick Hammond - Chicken, Alaska
Chicken / Stonehouse Creek Mining
Chickenminer.com
 
 
peluk
01:12:23 Sun
Oct 13 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Thanks, that's a better idea.Then I can add a comment without straying from the theme in this thread.

  
geowizard
02:32:35 Sun
Oct 13 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Muley,

Thanks for the excellent photos! That's quite a mining project they have going there. Looks like Arizona. Could be Nevada? Mojave Desert? :confused:

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 02:33:56 Sun Oct 13 2013]

  
Fleng
17:34:24 Mon
Oct 14 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

shaftsinkerawc-
I was actually just trying to streamline my sampling system first. I doubt that I'll have enough cons to justify a separate conveyor system. I'd like to take samples and simply dump them into a hopper for classifying and autofeeding into the cube.
geowiz-
The DIY is what I have in mind and looking at your links is very helpful. I too have seen many possibilities including some abandoned because of radiation/poisened earth! The pulley system can certainly be over or under-designed.
Autofeed 1.0 is likely to be lightweight (less than 80#) so that paydirt can be administered to the cube without direction. I'm going to experiment with using "sharkskin" a modern roofing underlayment as the belt. It is around 30" wide is very tough, linearly strong, and most importantly cheap. Also I have a few hundred feet of it left over.

  
geowizard
21:14:11 Mon
Oct 14 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Fleng,

That's the most innovative idea I've heard in a long time! I checked it out online it comes in 48" x 250 ft rolls.

It's got a 20 year warranty too! :smile:

- Geowizard

  
Fleng
17:53:11 Fri
Oct 18 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Well thanks geo but let me actually try it first. I have some to try and I can tell you it is flexible, strong, light, and watertight.

I saw on ebay that used standard conveyor belts are sold for .50/foot and are cut to length. New multi-layer matted polypropylene rolls are sold for .20 to .50/ft for 250' rolls. No big savings but much lighter.

I'll probably try both to get an idea which way to go.

Like Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan. Then they get hit".

  

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