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geowizard
20:04:23 Fri
Oct 18 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Fleng,

I look forward to news of your results!

My father was a welter-weight Golden Glove boxing Champion.

Dad said; "Never let your guard down, son!" :smile:

- Geowizard

  
billcosta_rica
00:11:36 Sat
Oct 19 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

my dad also geo .... he always said the bigger they are the harder they fall.

bill/cr

  
geowizard
18:23:11 Sat
Oct 19 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Bill,

That's cool!

Friday nights were special. For those that were around back in the black and white television era and remember the "Friday Night Fights" and champs like Rocky Marciano... I was being groomed to be the next "Heavy Weight". :smile:

Now, "Hold 'em like this, son. Keep your chin tucked in...

So someone doesn't give you a "good night kiss". :confused:

- Geowizard

  
cubsqueal
00:14:00 Sun
Oct 20 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


Had an uncle who was going to make a name for himself with boxing gloves. Some bigger guy knocked him on his rear and the gloves got hung up in the woodshed where they turned green with mold.

Gold mining sounds like a lifestyle with a lot less pain....

  
geowizard
14:09:37 Sun
Oct 20 2013

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Re: Winter projects?



Oh well... back to winter projects...

I designed a reverse-helix router and picked up a 20 ft section of 12" PIP pipe for the outer drum. I cut a 3 ft and a 6 ft section to make two recovery systems. Yesterday, I completed the steel frame with wheels for the drum to rotate on. Next will be the drive system.

Screen:

I made the cylindrical screen first. It is 8 mesh screen rolled inside of a section of 4 1/2 inch schedule 40 PVC well casing. The well casing has windows cut in it. The screen is glued with a bead of RTV around the openings (windows) in the well casing.

Note: this project is only a prototype and will be hardened for longer term use.

A spray bar will be added that runs the length of the screen.

Reverse Helix recovery systems appear in two versions. One has no screen and is fed with pre-screened material. The second has a grizzly and internal trommel screen.

- Geowizard

  
baub
20:53:56 Thu
Oct 31 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

The Gold Claimer has a 12 foot or so combo griz and conveyor for around $5k new.
Their are soil screeners out there that will do about 40-50 yph in a stationary model. $40k delivered to the Montana area from the Newfoundland area .
There is an Aussy outfit that makes a snazzy attachment in different sizes for different machines that will run as a replacement bucket on a backhoe or loader. Flip Screen I think.

b

  
baub
20:59:37 Thu
Oct 31 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Make that Nova Scotia for the screener location. Screentitan.com.

b

  
Muley
00:15:40 Sun
Nov 24 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Geowizard,
Mojave desert is right, Randsburg area, this mine is in the middle of a sale and we will have to find some new dirt to throw.

Muley

  
Beav
01:55:32 Tue
Nov 26 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Hey baub!

Didn't know that screener company was so close to me...just 2 hours down the road. I'll have to go look at one up close and personal next time I'm down that way.
I'll get some close-ups to confirm if they are made as well as they look. :wink:

Beav

  
baub
20:13:44 Wed
Nov 27 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Beav,

There's a few youtube vids out there too.

Geo,

Keep us informed.

b

  
bababooey
17:49:25 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

I am working on a placer mining business/cost plan


8 different yard˛/h 10 to 300
8 different gramm-oz/y˛
different best suit equipment sizes(dozers/exc,/loders/washplant/trommels etc/pumps/generators/service parts like filters and motoroil per 500/h/labor/etc
for each scenario fuel price at $cad1,40 L or $us3,9 gal

in case I forgot something, any suggestions?

cu




  
overtheedge
19:30:43 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

I'm assuming you already know the tenure and character of the deposit.

Lacking that, everything else is just a mental exercise and can't be considered an optimum choice.

Lack of a detailed and accurate sampling program is the easiest and quickest path to financial failure.
eric

  
geowizard
19:56:58 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

There's nothing wrong with mental exercise. Actually, it makes great fun for winter-time!

So, you can set up a spreadsheet with eight columns. Each column represents a different level of production.

Example: 10 20 50 100 150 200 250 300 cu yards per hour.

Then have a line entries for each cost with total cost.

Revenue is hypothetical. So a line for grams per cubic yard.

Another line for purity of gold.

Another line for cost of refining.

Another line for net pay.

Another line for cost of food.

Another line for cost of labor. (even if only your labor)

Another line for cost of insurance.

Another line for fuel.

Another line for POL. (engine oil, hyd oil, grease)

Another line for repair costs.

Another line for ... misc. costs.

Another line for cost per cu yard.

Another line for your "return on investment".

That gets it started. :smile:

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 20:04:22 Wed Dec 11 2013]

  
geowizard
20:08:58 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


At the top of each column, I place the equipment required to produce at the intended level of production. You can call manufacturers and obtain quotes or look at used equipment and plug in the costs of each piece of equipment. Equipment has an expected lifetime. So, a cost should be added into the spreadsheet for each hour of operation so that funding to replace equipment is in place at the time the equipment reaches end of life.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
20:37:05 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


Sample spreadsheet:




Plug in your own numbers. You can have different spreadsheets for every production scenario you can come up with.

- Geowizard

  
bababooey
20:48:25 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

my interest is to know,...

what kind of right equipment I/we have tu use on an exact/spezific amount of y˛ clear overburden, running the yards through a plant and how the cost of fuel differ when used smaler, heavier less or more equipment on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.


so, then I/we know what must/have the ground to give minimum in each case. Thats where the drilling comes in place.

sorry, english is not my first language.

We also thesting at the moment a cat345, komatsupc450 and a cat988 loader to run on UCO or lard (2 fuel tank system, one heatet from tank to motor) so far ok, only the filters and motor oil changes from 500h to about 350-300h.
UCO or Lard costs about down 45-55% from diesel. And also not hazardus to the ground.






  
geowizard
20:50:39 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?


The preceding spreadsheet is an example. Your profit or loss will include additional entries for completeness.

With reference to insurance costs;

I have checked on insurance for a mining operation. I have read the MD&A's for many mining companies. There are liabilities that are insurable. There is a longer list of liabilities that no insurance is available for. The Management discussion and Analysis provided by many mining companies includes a statement that recognizes the risks involved in mining and that also recognizes there are risks that cannot be covered by an insurance company.

Insurance companies will not write a policy to cover.

My policy has a list that itemizes "covered" amounts for liability (a few pages) and then a dense section of "exclusions". The topic is seldom discussed and is worthy of considerable thought.

Every miner/mining company enters into business with liability. How much liability depends on all of the variables that surround risk and risk management.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
20:59:40 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

bababooey,

Do you know what the losses are when you use low cost, substitute fuels?

Ask anyone running bio-diesel - or take a short ride in a french-fry oil burner and you will realize it isn't worth the effort.

Mining is complicated enough without adding more complexity by getting involved in a failed experimental alternative fuel test.

- Geowizard

  
bababooey
21:06:43 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

I am in logistic, all the trucks (ca 75) in my company run on lard, since over four years now. Absolutly no problems occourd since. We test the lard on every delivery. The only problem is the driver, when he thinks "oh, I use a different setting, not what the computer says"

  
bababooey
21:10:31 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?



  
geowizard
21:56:52 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

bababooey,

If you look at the spreadsheet - you notice it is losing money.

The animal fat alternate fuel - compared to Diesel is only 72.7 percent efficient in terms of Heat of combustion. That loss of heat energy equals less production.

Energy in any form of measurement is required to "do work". I don't know where you live. If you are involved in logistics, you know the logistics of shipping animal fat (lard) and the cost factors involved. The reason mining companies aren't using animal fat and most other alternative fuels is related to the fact that alternative fuels are less efficient and cost more to because of logistics and-or the cost of modification of equipment.

New equipment on warranty would probably not be able to be operated on veggie oil, animal fat or other alternative fuels. EPA Tier IV requirements for diesel equipment probably exclude alternate fuels.

Good luck!

- Geowizard

  
bababooey
22:07:18 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

????

"compared to Diesel is only 72.7 percent efficient in terms of Heat of combustion. That loss of heat energy equals less production."

so, why you dont look exacly?

what says it on one liter? Take a quik look at the density!

We use lard verry successfully allready. And, at the moment we test it on a friend of mine on heavier equipment , at least 1500h in/on grimm/heavy conditions. I am not naive, I dont like to throw away money!
and,...I dident ask you to lend me some,......so



  
geowizard
23:21:38 Wed
Dec 11 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

babaloney,

Miners want to save money. They usually have enough problems without getting off into unproven alternatives. Lard has been around a long time. I'm surprised it's just now being "discovered". :confused:

- Geowizard

  
aumbre
05:29:13 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

From Peele’s Mining Engineers Handbook
OPERATING SCALE AND PROFITS, CAPITAL REQUIREMENTS, AMORTIZATION

Scale of operations is determined, on one hand by, by the minimum rate at which the property can be worked at a low enough cost per unit to insure a profit. On the other hand, the maximum scale of operations is limited by the assured mineral and probable ultimate mineral resources from the exploitation profits of which the capital, interest, and ultimate profit must be secured; also by the capital available for equipment and development, and by available markets.

  
peluk
05:56:25 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

bababooey,it appears the fuel source has been explored and you have what you have so you work with it.I hope you're not burning elephants.

What is most important to you if I read it correctly,is how you could drop cost of production by using smaller equipment to do the job where it is appropriate. Appropriate might mean "sufficient for the task" considering depth of deposit,access to water(for washing),portability of available designs and other factors.

This is the place to ask that. However,you could start another thread/post because it might get lost under this topic heading "Winter Projects".

Here's an example.If I have a shallow deposit that requires the minimum amount of equipment to recover,should I use bigger equipment,move more material faster and exhaust the deposit leaving my expensive equipment idle while I explore elsewhere and payments eat up profits?

I'd bet you have an abundance of labor and deposits at varying depths.You could put light extremely efficient,portable, small washplants in some areas and put crews to work.While they are engaged in bringing in a steady source off revenue,you could take your drills and find out if there are more such easily accessable deposits or whether you actually require the larger excavation equipment and larger washplants in the other areas.

Your drilling will tell you how to proceed and how much overburden you'll have to move.You will find good advice here once that is established.

  
peluk
06:07:52 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Winter projects?

Probably as important as any factor is whether or not you have clay in your material.If so,is it present in all deposits?
If you can describe your host material,someone here can tell you how they work such material and where you can cut corners.

  
bababooey
10:49:17 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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to I know all "Mr. Dumbledore" geosometing

With your attitude, mankind would never invented the wheel nor would we know the name neil armstrong or bill gates or perhaps Rudolf Diesel, who run the first self combustion engine on, WHAT???? penut oil.

And no need to be funny on my board alias. As I understand, obviusly you are the nummero uno here and you like to share your wisdom here.

rule Nr. One: you allways are right
rule Nr. Two: if not, rule Nr. One is in charge

but, you know, reading educates, so why dont you use goog.
Nuff Said

  
baub
15:34:52 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: to I know all "Mr. Dumbledore" geosometing

Interesting thread.

Mr. Baba and all,

Thanks for joining us. We need new blood and perspectives.
It's very easy to develop tunnel vision and reject any new ideas and techniques. It's very difficult to maintain a focus on the objective when we argue about the placemats. It's also very easy to preach rather than teach. I've made that mistake many times.
You have an smart fuel system solution, use it. Back in the 70's I used home heating oil to fuel my diesel tractor. It worked well.
All winter long I make models and plans for the next seasons work and invariably they need changes and adjustments. I research this and that. The end result is that I incrementally improve and start further up the ladder each year.
There are some good ideas on this thread and forum. Take what you need and ignore the preaching.

baub

  
geowizard
15:35:12 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Critical thinking...


Most of my adult life, I have been involved in adult education. Education is important. What we know and being able to separate reality from fantasy controls our understanding of the world around us.

Mining involves being in touch with reality. In a post, above, aumbre pointed to fundamental elements that are involved in considering the scale of mining. That is important to understand. It represents reality. Also, peluk, in his subliminal style of pointing out reality, referred to the a critical question of the number of elephants that would need to be rendered for their fat to provide a source of fuel.

When I post on this forum or any other forum, it is with well thought conscious effort directed at the topic at hand.

Ideas abound. There are ideas that contribute to solutions to problems. When new members join the forum with questions and offering solutions to non-existent problems and then challenge the credibility of other members, it lends itself to "challenge".

Everyone should engage themselves in the process of critical thinking. That is a process of challenging "new" information. Separating the wheat from the chaff.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
15:58:05 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Staying "on topic"


So, "winter projects" evolves into "philosophy of learning". :confused:

One of the problems of discussion is those that cannot stay "on topic".

When a third person comes on the forum and looks at "winter projects" and runs down through the discussion to this point, they have to really wonder!

Stay on topic or start your own thread on "basket weaving" or whatever!

Thanks. :smile:

- Geowizard

  

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