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geowizard
17:22:18 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Diesel vs Fuel oil


It really is not a novel idea - using fuel oil as a replacement for diesel.

Diesel and fuel oil are identical for all "practical" purposes.

The difference is that Diesel is sold for "on road" use and has tax applied to the sale.

Off road diesel is not taxed and is commonly used in mining where mining equipment is used "off road".

It is actually unlawful to use "off road" diesel or heating oil in place of "on road" diesel for on road applications!

Heating oil and off road diesel is colored with a red dye to make it recognizable.

- Geowizard

  
aumbre
20:40:55 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

It seems the red dye for fuel oil has been discontinued for several years now. I donít know if the dye was found to be some sort of irritant or possibly there was a perceived problem with build up or seal degradation..

  
geowizard
21:07:54 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

aumbre,

Snake oil!

Red dye is still used - it's on the test.

http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/dyeddiesel.html

Don't use red diesel on the road.

By the way, aviation fuels are dyed red, green and blue.

Interesting fact:

When you mix them they cancel color to "clear".

- Geowizard

  
aumbre
21:23:45 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

I dunno Geo,
I prefer to get my information from non- Google type sources but I opened the attachment and skimmed the contents- seemed like red for non hiway vehicles and no mention of #1 or #2 heating fuel. I think the dye may have been derived from snakes and Gov. Knowles rid the state of Alaska of snakes, hence no dye in Alaska fuel oil.

  
geowizard
23:22:19 Thu
Dec 12 2013

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

aumbre,

Alaska may be exempt from the rules.

http://dec.alaska.gov/air/anpms/as/doc/ULSD-finalrec.pdf

Although, I have seen and do still see red diesel in Alaska. The reference above shows the complexity involved for Alaskans when EPA comes out with new regulations. The document above is not current but shows how complicated the process is.

Now, how about the modified diesel engine that runs on bio-diesel, etc. This falls under the category of "can of worms".

Diesel engines are fuel injected. Anyone that has worked with fuel injectors know that there are issues with the injectors fouling and improper fuel burn can add to problems with fouled injectors.

Add to this the issues related to Electronic Control Modules on a diesel engine and the sanity of the ECM control while subjected to ANY other foreign petroleum substitute or combination there-of and the results are completely unpredictable.

- Geowizard

  
baub
15:07:37 Fri
Dec 13 2013

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

The older diesel engines are in demand now for building glider tractors. These are combos with older model drivetrains and new chassis.
The new low sulfur diesel engines and the attendant pollution controls can develop a bunch of problems in a short time because, among other reasons, the engine and sensors are designed to operate in a narrower range of fuel characteristics. Sulfur acts as a lubricant for the valve seats. The engines that would run 500,000 to over a million miles that were on the market a few years ago now are more delicate and break easier. Injectors, EGR valves, exhaust soot collectors are some of the areas of concern.
It would appear to me that it's ok to use high sulfur fuels in the older machines that are not classified "road users".

b

  
charlene91
18:13:59 Tue
Jan 21 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

hi you all using newer fuel in older engines is bad for the engine and you will lose power i use heating oil in all of my older engines and have seen other miner use off road fuel which is low sulphur their engines ran bad until i added hyd oil and yes you can write off the off road fuel on taxes and not the heating oil

  
Bonaro
04:59:22 Wed
Jan 22 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

Home heating oil and diesel fuel are both No.2 oil and either can be used for engine fuel. Heating oil has a very high sulfur content which adds to the lubricity of the fuel and therefore better for the engine. Late model diesels vehicles may have a sulfur filter that will quickly clog if you run heating oil through them....and the taxman will get you.




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My Dredge Sucks...
 
 
LipCa
18:13:48 Wed
Jan 22 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

The Tax man will get you if you burn heating oil in your engine????

How and why?

  
azkid
19:54:58 Wed
Jan 22 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

if you take a newer car in for diesel foul it gets reported to the major companies which give the info to the feds for tax evasion

  
LipCa
01:55:24 Thu
Jan 23 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

You're supposed to handle that fouling problem yourself if you are going to burn stove oil.
I guess states/counties that require regular smog checks would not be a good place to burn it....

  
Bonaro
04:16:56 Thu
Jan 23 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

I fuel my Dodge at a local automated card lock station. They have cameras pointed at the off road diesel pumps and they record whenever someone pumps from them. If you pump into your fuel tank they report you for not paying road taxes.



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My Dredge Sucks...
 
 
geowizard
01:00:18 Thu
Feb 6 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

The Alaska State Legislature decided that Alaska is a "special case".

With reference to "special" low sulfur -Alaska does not intend to comply. There are to many remote villages that cannot afford to add additional tanks and pumps to support another "special" fuel. Also, Alaska is a really big place and by the time you calculate the molecules of particulates floating around - it's probably one molecule per square mile. Not a real environmental problem.

With reference to off road fuel use in "on road" applications, my understanding is that Alaska does not enforce the use of off road diesel in on road applications. First of all, most professional drivers working either for them selves or for a legitimate company get receipts for every fuel purchase. An audit of fuel purchases would be a problem. The few renegade drivers that cheat represent a small minority.

California has defined mobile and stationary applications and requires that users send a statement every year of the fuel consumed and sources of the fuel purchased to the state. It's another reason to avoid California IMHO.

- Geowizard

  
baub
01:43:26 Thu
Feb 6 2014

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Re: Diesel vs Fuel oil

Amen !

  

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