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Mrgrizz44
22:03:49 Thu
Apr 10 2014

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I some help with a new idea

I've come up with a new way to mine underwater and am in the process of building a prototype. I really could use this communities help with some low cost ideas of how to get this thing into the patent process. I have never attempted anything like this before and appreciate any input I can get. Thanks in advance for the help. :confused:

  
JOE_S_INDY
23:26:53 Thu
Apr 10 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Grizz,

Just be aware that anything on the net is public knowledge - and as sure as .... someone will be looking over your shoulder and taking notes.

Certainly we will be open to help - but be careful in revealing trade secrets.


Joe

  
Bonaro
02:47:15 Fri
Apr 11 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

You have to have a "new" idea or at least a material improvement of an old idea in order to get a patent. You need to spend a LOT of time here: www.google.com/patents
to find out if it has already been patented or even something close to it. You can take your idea to a patent attorney but this searching is what he will do...for $150 an hour.
I have been down the patent road before. You can count on about $8-10 k to get a utility patent and then the marketing begins and you will spent that much money again or more...dam shame to get a couple grand into this and learn that someone already had the idea in 1903..and again in 1940 and so on.

I will look at your idea and give you my opinions but BEFORE you show it to ANYONE (including me) make them sign a non-disclosure agreement.

Do you have an idea of a device or have you built something that actually works?



---
My Dredge Sucks...
 
 
overtheedge
04:25:58 Fri
Apr 11 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

You can do your own patent search on the web. Several sites have the patents available.

Buy the book "Patent it Yourself", David Pressman, Nolo Press.

Getting a patent isn't cheap. Even if you have a new idea and it is patentable, will it be profitable?

Profitability is NOT a precondition for getting a patent. There has been thousands of what is commonly termed "vanity patents"

Good luck and start your lab notebook immediately and get it witnessed at every stage.

eric

  
Mrgrizz44
11:51:11 Fri
Apr 18 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Thanks for the advice. I have searched every patent I can find that might be close to mine and I can find nothing. I will look at the link you posted and continue to search. Are you on the peninsula where we could meet to talk about this. I am in the process of building a working proto-type right now. Its really amazing to me how many people I know think Im crazy for wanting to invent and patent something. They are rooting for me but think Im crazy for wanting to build this and go put it in operation.

  
geowizard
14:18:05 Fri
Apr 18 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Mrgrizz44,

Being creative and willing to discover new things is often met with doubt and criticism by others. It's part of the process of being creative.

There are different motives for being creative. A person may want attention and come up with a new secret idea for the sake of gaining attention. Inventors may actually become famous like Thomas Edison.

Another motive is the possibility of becoming wealthy. Howard Hughes' father invented the roller bit used in drilling oil wells. He retained the patent and rented drill bits.

Another motive is creating something that has value to society and makes the world a better place without any personal motive.

The thing that confuses me is that you apparently have an idea that you have not made a model of or a prototype. You don't need a patent on your idea to "build it and operate it". You can actually build and operate something that's already patented. You can't market, build (manufacture) and sell a product that has been patented.

If your idea has commercial value then you should proceed to patent the idea. That process requires review at the patent office by an engineer that would consider the patent as having the qualities required to be given a patent. If a patent is issued, it will be published and is available for viewing - world wide. The common fear of publishing a patent is the concern that someone else will come up with an improved version. A better mouse trap.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
15:01:20 Fri
Apr 18 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Mrgrizz44,

There is another motive for getting a patent that I didn't mention and that motive is "control".

Many corporations maintain market control by controlling the patents on all similar or competing products. I know of corporations that employ scientists and engineers in a "think tank". These "think tanks" in the old days, were teams of thinkers that worked in a room and came up with "new ideas". That's all they did.

I used to work in the design and manufacturing of commercial satellite communication modems. It was specialized work. One side of the very large engineering laboratory was nothing but offices of patent attorneys. New ideas were promptly rewarded and secured by the company. The engineer was given credit for the idea/invention and the company retained ownership of the patent.

It was all about control.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
01:50:05 Sat
Apr 19 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

The patent process is inherently expensive.

You NEED a GOOD patent attorney. The more thorough the patent search, the less problems you will have with patent conflicts and spending money defending your patent.

The patent search requires time and since attorneys charge by the hour and in many cases even if they use a legal aide, that aide is expensive too. It would be a mistake to cut corners.

Composition of a patent requires expertise in WRITING. It requires expertise in the selection of verbage that covers the scope of the IDEA. This is not an area to cut corners and "cook book" your own patent.

You should have WAY better understanding of the ART of underwater mining than anyone else in the world! With a world population of five billion, there are hundreds of thousands of patent seekers and gold miners and thinkers that are thinking up new ideas every day.

Consider ALL of the possibilities of METHODS of underwater mining. I can come up with a dozen. Let's suppose for the sake of discussion, there are 5000 possibilities of methods of underwater mining. There are a fixed number of possibilities that are practical, feasible and/or meet the test of the laws of physics. Yes, there are possibilities that reside out in the realm of "dark matter" and theoretical physics.

Has the question of the physics behind the method been satisfied?

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 01:52:10 Sat Apr 19 2014]

  
Mrgrizz44
01:58:11 Mon
Apr 21 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Geo, I am in this for myself and to try to make some money. I'm not quite ready to give up my day job but would love to. I am however in the process of building a prototype and hope to have it done and tested by the middle of summer. My original date was next year due to finances but I have an investor who is willing to foot the bill for the prototype and become a silent partner for a small percentage. I have found a few patents that have the same basic idea but nothing that is really the same. I guess that's where my real dilemma lies is that is it different enough to persue the patent process. I believe it is but sure could use another opinion from someone that understands patents better than I do. Either way I'm having a blast. My wife thinks I'm crazy but she wasn't raised with the gold bug that my father gave me at an early age.

  
geowizard
03:18:47 Mon
Apr 21 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Mrgrizz44,

That sheds more light on the subject.

You might look at getting a design patent. If the idea improves on the "prior art", you could retain the value by owning the right to your design.

Design patents are lower cost, and potentially a faster track to a patent.

- Geowizard

  
overtheedge
03:29:02 Mon
Apr 21 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Hey dude,
Just buy the book I recommended. Read it cover to cover. Build and test your prototype. Fill your patent notebook and have folks you trust witness all along the way.

Been there, done that and walked away because it wasn't financially profitable, ..., twice.

Oh, and have fun along the way. Fun does NOT include spending butt-ugly amounts of money on un-profitable enterprises. Uh, ... , unless it is recreational expenses and then let your conscience be your guide.
eric


  
geowizard
03:33:00 Mon
Apr 21 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea


As of January 1st, the USPTO fees for a Design patent are:

Application Fee $180.
Search Fee $120.
Examination Fee $460
Issue Fee $560

Maintenance fee @ 3.5 years $1600

@7.5 years $3600

@11.5 years $7400.

There may be other fees.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
03:41:30 Mon
Apr 21 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

A free resource:

www.tinaja.com

http://www.tinaja.com/pasamp1.shtml

Don Lancaster is a well known writer and has lots of interesting information!

You will probably enjoy his style. :smile:

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 03:44:37 Mon Apr 21 2014]

  
geowizard
03:04:57 Fri
Apr 25 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea


  
overtheedge
04:24:36 Fri
Apr 25 2014

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Re: I some help with a new idea

Design patents are for things like "pink with camouflage polka dot kilts", "purple striped lederhosen" and lampshades that look like a tuba.

Utility patents, far more costly, are for new stuff that does something.

I have no connection to the book I recommended. My copy cost $46.95 and I figure it saved me from wasting thousand$.

Don Lancaster offers some valid arguments against patents.
But, ... , I'll leave it at that.

eric

  

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