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WmA
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Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 23:29:36 SatMar 4 2017 )

Everybody wants to increase the efficiency of their sluice boxes and who has really had the time or the resources to do a proper study?
Well if you are like the rest of us very few because we are busy trying to get the gold
and just don’t have the time , equipment, or facilities to dedicate to these pursuits……

Here are some videos and studies done by somebody who does.

Doc at Gold Hog has done an incredible job when it comes to equipment and sluice riffle design research.

What’s even ore amazing is all the videos he has shared with the public of all this research and his findings….. I can think of no other company that has offered so much information free to anyone that wants to watch… Yes of course this all leads to the hope of people purchasing his products and that is absolutely a reasonable expectation, but the fact remains I have never seen a company so transparent with research information.
So kudos to Doc and a big thank you for your time and energy…. Just in case you ever drop in here.

Gold Hog Sluice and Riffle Study - Gold Prospecting Research

Sluice Mat Flow Rate Tests

Gold Hog Mat - Gold Prospecting Science

Gold Hog Mat Test - Fine Tuning the Mats

Catching Fine Placer Gold

Now with the standard sluice stuff pretty well covered here is a good video of a gravity well/boil box system. While I find a couple of problems with this particular system the video is great in that it lets us see what is actually going on in a gravity well/boil box.

UNDERFLOW SLUICE BOX GOLD MINING EQUIPMENT, Gold collection System
[2 edits; Last edit by WmA at 14:05:07 Wed Mar 8 2017]

  
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 14:12:27 MonMar 6 2017 )

WmA,

I agree, Doc has made many contributions to the world of gold recovery!

Having used several of the Gold-Hog mats in my mining operation in Alaska, I found the mats were difficult to impossible to get the gold out. They do a good job of keeping the gold - that's for sure! :smile:

- Geowizard

  
JOE_S_INDY
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 19:28:48 MonMar 6 2017 )

WmA,

Excellent selection of videos. Some I've seen before and some not.

Over a few years now I've become a big fan of Doc and his mats - as well as his equipment. Nothing second class about that operation and their products.

I can't ever remember another manufacturer who has even come close to the level of information and help that Gold Hog has provided to each and every miner.

The fine and defining point that gives weight to anything that they produce is the effectiveness of their mats. Other systems, over the years, have improved recovery of some 'marginal' Gold parameters but I, personally, have seen the results of the high levels of exhaustive experimentation and engineering that has gone into each and everything that they have produced.

From time to time another mining product producer will offer a limited number of usually instructive videos on their product(s). Those run the entire range of "OK" to just an infomercial. Not the case with 'Hog products.

I guess it's pretty obvious that I am a very happy customer / user of their products. Sometimes that just has to be said to offset those other, much less satisfactory things that we all have tried to use in the past.

One last thing needs to be mentioned. The Gold Hog video library on UTube has not only product specific videos (as you would anticipate) but also a goodly number of general information videos which are of exceptional use to any miner who has the chance to see them. Those instructional videos are, in themselves, a great source of general information on placer mining that every miner should see.

The one reoccurring theme in everything Doc does is one that I respond to most favorably - "How can we help you get the Gold you want?". That true customer service is something we don't see very often anymore, and it is really nice to see.

Joe

[1 edits; Last edit by JOE_S_INDY at 19:36:22 Mon Mar 6 2017]



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WmA
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 23:38:10 MonMar 6 2017 )


Even though I don't have any Gold Hog equipment I can see the merit and quality of it.
If I were to be in a position that I was dredging, high banking, or stream/river sluicing you can be sure I would be using it.

Here are a couple more that are particularly relevant........

Cleaning FINE GOLD Out of Heavy Black Sands

Proportional Force - Gold Mining and Prospecting

While this video uses the Gold Cyclone the subject matter is on Hydraulic Equivalence.... Which plays a huge role in your sluice box .
Gold Cyclone - Learning Video - Hydraulic Equivalence
[1 edits; Last edit by WmA at 23:51:54 Mon Mar 6 2017]

  
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 14:55:46 TueMar 7 2017 )


I operate a commercial Gold mine in Alaska. The mining operation requires profit or I shutter the mine. There really isn't room for things that don't work.

In 2012, I bought 3 feet of the "UR" Mat and three feet of the "Scrubber" mat. The mat is sold in six inch sections x 36 inches wide. My sluices are 36 inches wide. So, I bought six sections of each mat.

Cost;

The cost of the mats was about $400 total. Shipping added another $100.

Installation;

Installation of the mats involves taping the sections together. This is where it gets "sticky" - or in some cases it doesn't get sticky. The best tape on the market is Gorilla tape. There are two things that are always involved in placer mining; dirt and water. There are two things that interfere with application of sticky tape. You guessed it; Dirt and Water!

So, in a dirty, wet, environment, I proceeded to keep the installation clean and dry. A 36 inch section of mat weighs about 5 pounds. I estimate a 36 inch section weighs 30 pounds. The sections are taped together. That makes the assembled mat difficult to move. Yes, you could install the sections in the box. The mat has to be taped together up-side down and then carefully rolled over to avoid having sections separate. The taped sections are under the stress of folding as the mat is rolled over. Needless to say; the sections tend to pull apart.

The mat catches GOLD. :smile:

Now the PROBLEM is getting the gold out of the mat. :confused:

It is frustrating to realize that you have gold in the mat and you cannot get it out. :gonetoofar:

Get the mat out of the box;

The process involves rinsing the heavies out as much as possible. The loaded mat will weigh between 50 and 100 pounds. The options are; try to roll the mat up in one piece or separate and disassemble the mat.

Transport;

Transporting the mat is at best difficult. A 36 inch section cannot be placed in a 5 gallon bucket - so you need a cleanup tub that's over 36 inches long.

Cleanup;

Each section has to be rolled backward to remove the gold. "The mat doesn't let go" as advertised. Flushing the gold out of the mat is complicated by the fact that the mat has to be flexed in reverse while avoiding dumping the gold.

Summary;

So, in summary, the mats went on the shelf and have stayed there. I don't want to throw away $500 worth of mat and I don't want to give it away.

- Geowizard

  
WmA
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 15:26:36 TueMar 7 2017 )

The full mat assembly video.

The video starts at the pertinent section.

Gold Hog Mats - Full Training Video
[2 edits; Last edit by WmA at 01:33:21 Wed Mar 8 2017]

  
WmA
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 16:09:05 TueMar 7 2017 )

Before gold Hog came along Randy Clarkson was the goto guy regarding sluice and riffle configuration studies.
Here is one of his publications.

Well I guess this platform doesn't like PDF files so here's a link to the publication

Pacer Gold Recovery Research
[1 edits; Last edit by WmA at 16:13:14 Tue Mar 7 2017]

  
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 16:33:54 TueMar 7 2017 )

WmA,

The subject mat doesn't provide a solution to a problem.

Cost:

In my case, I bought a 100 foot roll of Commercial Astro-turf 3 feet wide, for half the price. It catches the gold. There was no improvement in recovery thus there was no cost - benefit.

Installation;

With Astro-Turf, I measure and cut. No additional work is needed. Less time spent installing = more time running dirt.

Removal and transport;

Astro-turf mat can be rolled up and having been cut to 18 inch width, each one will fit nicely into a 5 gallon bucket. My sluices are 8 feet long and 3 feet wide. I operate two sluices in parallel. With four mats in each sluice - I have eight mats that each weigh 50 to 100 pounds loaded. No worries about mats separating and dumping gold.

Cleanup;

The Gold Hog mat works as advertised. It "Bites the Gold and Won't let go!" :smile:

Just reverse roll the mat and that's all there is to it? Not exactly. I can assure you the mat "bites the gold". and It won't let go. In my case, I spent hours manually picking gold out of the mat. Handling a 3 foot wide mat, that's 3 feet long - picking out the gold is very tedious work.

Super glue?

Super glue is great stuff. I haven't seen anyone actually demonstrate super glue bonding so well that it will support a person's body weight! I makes a great pitch though!

In the final analysis, I put the mat on the shelf.

For a recreational miner with a wife that doesn't care where you blow a thousand dollars on a week-end and if you have a nice clean, dry shop to play in, it's all just about play and having fun!

Invested a quarter of a million dollars in a mining venture is serious business. Attention has to be paid to every detail. There isn't room for anything that slows down the process. :smile:

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 17:04:14 TueMar 7 2017 )

WmA,

Randy Clarkson represents a good reference. A search of this Forum gives 18 posts that refer to Randy Clarkson.

Yukon Gold is very similar to the gold I recover in the interior of Alaska. Having followed most of the principles given in the Clarkson paper, I have been able to determine the recovery and minimize losses in my system.

Clarkson emphasizes the importance of the screening process. My wash plant uses a 6 foot x 6 foot screen. The top portion of the screen is covered with a sheet of .125 aluminum. The spray bars pump 1200 GPM from two opposing 4" manifolds. I have 12 nozzles on each manifold that direct water down the screen.

I dump tailings containing gold on the aluminum sheet where it is instantly converted to a slurry. The slurry crosses the screen and 1/4" minus goes to the sluice boxes. Oversize reports to the base of the screen. It gets loaded and stacked or used for development of the next wash plant site.

I test sluice tailings for gold and inspect the lower mats for gold on a regular basis. For two years, I ran 12 foot sluices. I never found gold in the last four feet. Having thousands of hours of running the same wash plant, I have found 90 percent of the gold is captured in the first four feet of Astro- turf.

I run expanded metal over the Astro-turf.

At cleanups, I recover micron gold that has been captured in the Astro-Turf.

Randy Clarkson used a neutron source to make small particles of gold temporarily radioactive. His process involved counting the radioactive particles of gold that remained in the sluice and the particles that ran out the end. Micron gold can be made radioactive - but the amount of radioactivity isn't sufficient to be detected. So, based on the relevance of fine gold, I remain skeptical about the applicability of neutron activation of gold and the relative size constraints of detectable micron gold.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 18:27:37 TueMar 7 2017 )

Efficiency;

As a measure of efficiency, "sluice riffle stuff" doesn't involve rocket science!

Efficiency of cost;

The cost and availability of matting is an important aspect of efficiency. Outdoor carpet in the form of Astro-Turf is available from several sources and is relatively low cost. It is durable because it is designed to be walked on and used in an outdoor application.

Efficiency of recovery;

Astro-Turf loads up with a small amount of heavies and the combination of reduced velocity around the nylon fibers and net reduced velocity in the mat gives Gold plenty of opportunity to be recovered. Efficiency of Gold recovery comes with minimal attention to small variations in flow, amount of turbidity, or pitch that accompanies many other riffle designs - especially Hungarian riffles.

Keene Engineering has demonstrated the efficiency of Hungarian riffles including their hybrid riffle design. In order to capture gold in three size ranges, you need three sizes of Hungarian riffles. That works fine for a triple sluice with several different mat and riffle combinations.

Efficiency of Removal;

The expanded metal is retained with two nuts. I remove each section of expanded, remove the carpets and load them into 5 gallon buckets.

The triple sluice involves half an hour of disassembly and another 15 minutes of re-assembly.

Efficiency of removing and reinstalling mats and riffles - particularly the sectionalized rubber mats is inefficient because of the handling, potential for breaking at the joints and time required to re-tape and seal joints in a field situation.

Efficiency of Cleanup;

Astro-Turf lets go of the Gold. A reverse roll of the carpet and agitation in the cleanup tub - with a final look, that's all it takes.

Thousands of hours of operation has shown efficiency over-all is better using Astro-Turf with expanded.

- Geowizard
[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 18:30:08 Tue Mar 7 2017]

  
geowizard
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Read the Forum Rules. ( 20:26:17 TueMar 7 2017 )

WmA,

It was your remark about "Whether it is the most efficient or not".

Efficiency generally relates to output/input. While trying to place a value or quantity on efficiency, from a purely objective point of view, things like "ease of use" and "reliability" are hard to define..:smile:

- Geowizard
[2 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 14:07:24 Wed Mar 8 2017]

  
peluk
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 23:57:28 TueMar 7 2017 )

"Astro turf with expanded' sounds like a good idea. As I've mentioned,I have trouble with astro turf releasing material quickly enough at production speed and thus it gets buried. In cleanup sluices the "astro" works very well. The lifting action created by expanded metal might be worth experimenting with and I will.


  
geowizard
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Re: Efficiency is not easy to define ( 04:08:05 WedMar 8 2017 )

WmA,

No problems!

Please accept my oversensitivity as just that.

I appreciate your contributions to the Forum and wish you the best of luck! :smile:

- Geowizard
[2 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 14:10:47 Wed Mar 8 2017]

  
geowizard
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Efficiency csn be affected by logistics ( 04:32:52 WedMar 8 2017 )

peluk,

Nome represents many challenges to gold mining - not the least of which is logistics. Getting equipment and all of the assorted support bits and pieces including sluice mats, screens and expanded metal takes patience. Being off the road system often requires using resources that just happen to already be available. Waiting for special orders can take weeks and by then the season is over.

Astro-Turf isn't probably the best choice for very fine gold. I'm using it because it is a good compromise that gets fine gold and larger gold. The lost super fine gold is likely not a significant part of the otherwise recoverable gold. Reality for me is having a carpet that catches a high percentage of gold with the minimal amount of maintenance.

Ribbed mat;

I like the ribbed mat.

The Proline combo that I sent up to Nome and flew back down to Anchorage - then flew out to McGrath took about six weeks that season to get shipped. The combo has a section of ribbed under punched plate. When the gold drops into the ribbed - it hangs in there. Even with all of the washing that goes on in the grizzly, the gold lays right in the ribbed mat.

Last year, I shipped up two 3 foot x 4 foot sections of punched plate. I intend to put the punched plate on spacers and run punched plate over ribbed. The sluice can handle higher flow on top of the punched plate and the gold that drops through the punched plate will be in a zone of lower velocity flow. The objective is to effectively screen material as it goes through the sluice - combining sluicing and screening. This process is similar to the RMS Ross Box.

- Geowizard

[1 edits; Last edit by geowizard at 14:11:36 Wed Mar 8 2017]

  
polekaat
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Re: Efficiency csn be affected by logistics ( 16:17:43 SatMar 11 2017 )

Geowizard,

I have a buddy that is only running various, gold hog mats in his home built 4" dredge. I am always impressed with the amount of gold that he catches out of Clear Creek, here in Colorado. Instead of taping his mats together, he glued them, and I have yet to see them come apart. The mats are just clamped to the sluice box, near the jet flair. For his cleanup, he loosens the clamp, then rolls the mat up, and rolls it into a large mud tub, with floats. Since the "riffles" are on the inside at this point, he starts at the exposed end and re-rolls the mat up so the riffles are on the outside. He then stands the rolled up mat on end, and pours water over/thru it. He does his cleanout and is back up and running within 15 minutes. He has customized his sluice to run shallower, over his mat, than my 5", which still uses Hungarian riffles and backed miners moss.

Polekaat



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JOE_S_INDY
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 17:47:07 SatMar 11 2017 )

Polecat,

Have your buddy re-watch one of Doc's various videos where he shows a mat clean up.

He starts with one end (upstream or downstream it doesn't matter) and rolls the mat with the 'riffles' outside and then dunks the rolled up mat into a container of water - doing the up 'n down wash for 2 or 3 seconds. Then he unrolls the mat and re-rolls it -- starting with the other end inside and again with the 'riffles' out. Again the up 'n down for a few seconds and all is done.

The entire idea of rolling the mat with the smooth side in is to open up (expand) the 'riffles' on the outside of the roll - releasing the Gold and other materials from inside the tight spaces between the 'riffles'. Start from one end first and then start from the other end next. Always with the riffles out so they open up to drop anything in them.

Doc's use of the words "... from the other way ..." could be interpreted to sound like the way your buddy seems to be cleaning those mats.

Faster, easier, better.

Joe :smile:



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Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
geowizard
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 19:18:49 SatMar 11 2017 )


I like Faster, easier, better!

Doc should put you guys on commission! :smile:

I bought my Gold Hog mat before the "Training video" came out. The market had the same problems I had with clean-up.

So... Next question;

Screening? I realize a 5 inch dredge throws some huge boulders out there... :confused:

I'm thinking of running 0.125 thick punch plae with 1/4 holes and 56 percent open area the length of the box - over ribbed... or...

Just maybe (possibly) I might run punched plate over Gold Hog. BTW, I use 1/4 inch bolts to space the punched plate off the mat an inch or so. The objective in my case is to run everything on one pass down the sluice and avoid handling over-size.

- Geowizard

  
WmA
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 06:37:24 SunMar 12 2017 )

As with any tool there is a right way and a wrong way... the videos are there for your edification .... and then of course there's My Way.... but we will get to that later..... :devil: How to clean your Gold Hog Mats.

  
geowizard
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Faster, better, easier....... ( 14:30:58 SunMar 12 2017 )

Life of a "Pitch Man";

Ever watch an Oxy-clean commercial? :confused:

Ever watch a "pitch man"?

The guys that are showing you "How easy it is" and what a wonderful product it is, are all selling something.

It's like politicians saying - Well if you were just a little smarter!

Well, watch the video - and you will be "smarter".

Reality;

When I decide to pull the trigger and buy 500 dollars worth of matting or anything else - it's because I spent time doing a little "Due Diligence" on the product. Spent most of my life in school, spent most of my life teaching others and spent most of my life working at GOLD mining :smile:

I have had a lot of interesting experiences along the way. The problem with spending money is when you spend money and the product has a problem. When you have skin in the game - with the expectation that the product will add value to your mining operation - and after the expense of having gone through all of the necessary steps to assure success - the time and money end up WASTED.

You don't have to be in the placer mining business more than about an hour and do ONE CLEAN UP to know the process of rolling a xxxxxx' CARPET forward, backward - SHAKE IT BABY SHAKE IT. :confused:

OK, watch the VIDEO - there's a SECRET method of rolling the mat - up stream - then down steam, then all the gold just comes bouncing out!

Well, it's all part of the "PITCH".

Why spend time gluing sections of rubber mat together when you can buy Astro-turf in 100 foot rolls and cut to size?

- Geowizard

  
Jim_Alaska
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 14:52:21 SunMar 12 2017 )

Wiz, perhaps the answer to your last sentence is that the miner wants The ribbed mat and not Astro. That would be my guess.



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WmA
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 15:37:13 SunMar 12 2017 )

Hi Jim.
I think mats work better than astro turf in a couple ways.... Better capture rate and a LOT less cons to deal with at clean up...

The other thing about astro turf is the creep factor.... what I mean by that it unless you have riffles that really set down into the astro turf there is nothing to prevent that slow migration of material to continue it's path right on down and along the bottom and the path of least resistance....

Does astro turf work? yes..... Are there mats that work better than astro turf? I think so.

  
geowizard
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 17:32:29 SunMar 12 2017 )

Jim,

I agree - that's what I'm going to this coming season. I ordered ribbed last fall.

In 2014, in the interest of checking for losses, I used Gold Hog at the foot of my 12 foot sluices. After two - one week runs, I didn't find any gold in the Gold Hog mats. The AstroTurf was catching ALL of the GOLD.

No creep! :confused:

Seeing is believing! :smile:

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 02:18:36 MonMar 13 2017 )

The question of; Faster, easier, better?

Is it faster?

When it takes longer, it is not faster. :confused:

When it involves more work and greater difficulty, it is not easier.

When it is sold as being "better", the word, "better" must be qualified. Better in what ways? Better when used in the context of a better placer mining operation, is usually meant in terms of "MORE GOLD". If a mat is sold under the pretense of being better at recovering more gold, then the seller understands something about the existing operation that he cannot really understand. The seller has no knowledge of how good the existing operation is. :smile:

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 02:34:33 MonMar 13 2017 )

Ribbed Mat;

I'm considering going to ribbed mat for a reason. The reason is that ribbed mat has demonstrated performance in the Proline Combo that I use on a regular basis. The short section of ribbed mat is directly under punch plate.

The grizzly on the Proline Combo is in a hopper with spray bars. So the big rocks roll off the grizzly and everything else runs through the sluice box. I run one-yard samples through the Proline Combo. The gold usually drops down through the punch plate and stays in the ribbed mat. That makes it a simple process to shut off the pump, remove two wing nuts and lift the punch plate for a quick check on values.

A large scale operation could run with punch plate over ribbed mat. The punch plate keeps over-size material rolling the length of the sluice - out of the ribbed mat. Under the punch plate, the water flow is maintained at a rate to allow fine gold to stay in the mat. My observation has been that small gold will remain in the ribbed mat. The mat I'm talking about is the V-ribbed mat. The density contrast between gold and lighter sand and shale is great enough that the mat doesn't load up.

- Geowizard

  
geowizard
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 02:49:50 MonMar 13 2017 )

Why it works;

The punch plate is spaced above (elevated) so there is a space between the punch plate and the ribbed mat. I use punch plate with 1/4 inch holes. All of the material that goes through the sluice is composed of dragline tailings. The remaining gold in the tailings is 95 percent 8-mesh and smaller. The remainder is in the form of small pickers.

The punch plate is supported by 1/4" bolts. The bolts are generally inch and a quarter in length with a nut on the bottom of the punch plate. The supports provide a one and one-eighth inch space between the punch plate and the mat. Each sluice is 3 feet wide and eight feet long.

This configuration is similar to the dump at the head of an RMS Ross Box. The punch plate provides a slick surface for over-size to move through the box and not roll on the ribbed mat. The punch plate has an interesting effect on water flow that runs down the upper surface of the plate and is diverted down onto the ribbed mat. So, the water flow is not horizontal but becomes diverted to near vertical as it falls through the holes.

- Geowizard

  
LipCa
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 03:30:57 MonMar 13 2017 )

I also put Gold Hog in the last 4 feet of my box coming out of my trommel thinking I probably had to be losing something. This replaced moss under raised expanded metal.
Not a speck showed up!
I had 8 inches of ribbed mat followed with open moss under riffles at the first half.

  
WmA
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 05:04:25 MonMar 13 2017 )

Howdy LipCa.
How long do you run between clean outs?

  
geowizard
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 14:23:41 MonMar 13 2017 )


The leading edge;

It's probably obvious, but I ran a strip of Gorilla tape along the leading edge of the Gold Hog mat - taping it to the sluice - it gives a smooth ramp up to the mat.

- Geowizard

  
LipCa
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Re: Faster, better, easier....... ( 15:11:16 MonMar 13 2017 )

I only run a couple days a week. So, once a day.

  
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Re: Sluice Riffle Stuff................... ( 18:39:15 MonMar 13 2017 )

Harry,

There is something to consider when mixing types of recovery systems.

All Gold Hog mats like uniquely high water flow and a certain, also unique drop of the box. The various mats need that water as well as angle drop to attain their own 'sweet spot' for maximum recovery. If the Hog mats don't get enough water volume or energy from the drop they can (depending on specifics) pass Gold due the Hog mats being packed with insufficiently ""motivated"" exchange of Gold for black sand. Just like any gravity based sluice since if it isn't tuned just right it isn't doing well.

Now, you are using Moss 'n Expanded in the upper part of your box. You have tuned the box to recover it's Gold exactly the way the Moss 'n Expanded need to use. I can't say for certain but in having used those in the past it's entirely possible that the Hog mats are suffering from the Moss' optimum setting.

Kind of like having a team of Clydesdales with a pony in the back. The hooves never touch the ground so there is no hoof wear - eh!
:eeekyellow:

Now I hasten to add that I certainly don't know all there is to know about your set-up, but that could be a real time answer to that "Not a Speck" observation.

Maybe yes, maybe no - but worth checking out.

Joe
[1 edits; Last edit by JOE_S_INDY at 18:42:25 Mon Mar 13 2017]



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