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1 people online in the last 1 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 1 guests. (Most ever was 29 at 13:36:32 Sat Aug 3 2002)

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DeadWod
20:16:03 Wed
Jul 15 2009

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Claim Jumpers

Need help.
Found some people dreding, digging, and other words mining my claim. These people are nomads, from West Virgina, Florida and North Carolina. They claim to belong to NUPA, whose websites have been suspended. The Idaho City office of the Forest Service (Russ Hicks) gave these people permission to camp on my claim for 45 days without properly checking boundries, then when shown his error would not correct it. No help from BLM, or local law enforement, who won't return calls. Have pictures will post. These people have been to Wyoming, now in Idaho and are next going to oregon and Washington. they have locals that collect the days work. Have been told by the Forest Service that I will have to file a civil claim, anyone have an ideas before someone gets hurt?

  
fubar
23:46:44 Wed
Jul 15 2009

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166 posts
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Re: Claim Jumpers

What state are you in where they jumped your claim?
Scotty

  
dredger
04:57:13 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

Experience ( only happened once ) has taught me to go and talk to some of the other legal local miners and invite them over for a barbeque, when the illegals are not around the immediate location, then all the local miners park in the illegal miners work hole, ( remove keys ) get the steaks cooking, call the cops, ( on their recorded police device ) and tell them you and your local friends are having a large barbeque in your local area, and a couple of strangers look like making trouble and we think they may have guns, give exact GPS INFORMATION, sound scared, when the cops arrive inform them, the strangers have not shown any guns yet, and will most probably be trying to lay chargers and compensation for their broken shovel which was accidentally run over by a 4x4 because "they " left it in the parking lot.
Also you wish ( demand ) to lay charges for "illegal mining on a legal mining claim ",report theft,
get all of the strangers details, ) , and seek compensation for the $84, 000, of gold removed/stolen by the illegal miners in their short stay, ( " verification " for that amount of gold stolen can be sourced through the local miners , and selected local mining records, )
OK< fact is that one time ,the " suggestion " of parking BIG 4X4s in that work hole, worked, and they got the message,and left,
as a " LEGAL " MINING CLAIM OWNER, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT WHAT IS " LEGALLY YOURS " ( mineral rights ) what ever legal way you can " think of to get the law to work, " ,
And watch ya back,

  
canyoncityraised
07:50:03 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

You're in my current backyard. It's my understanding Russ Hicks is just a F.S. employee who has taken it uppon himself to keep a database of local claims... he aint the answer to shortcutting due dilligence... just maybe a resource to help get somebody get started. Perhaps letting him know his "hobby" has caused the infringement of your mineral rights, and as such he would be best off helping you out with the tree cops, rather than you pressing his superiors about his major screw up... wich happened on taxpayer time, with the illusion of authority when he actualy held none, would be a good start.

If this fails, and state or county cops still won't help, let me know if you need a witness for your next conversation with these miners .... Plus, it never hurts to have a giant standing behind you with a shovel in his hand:devil:

Hope it works out well for you.

  
DeadWod
13:20:48 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

Local law enforcement does not seem interested, Elmore County, its a long drive to the Middle Fork, I have had a couple of "discussions" with these people and they seem to think they have some sort of right to be where they are, due to Russ' map reading abilities, even though after pressure from us he seemed to realize he had been wrong. Who is in charge of mining at the Forest Service? I have until the 21st of this month to get something happening before they leave, My frustration level is off the chart.

Iam in Idaho

  
dredger
22:34:39 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

Good one geowizard,

Video camera, :smile:, I did not think to mention that,

  
faaus
22:59:05 Thu
Jul 16 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

What you wrote brings some questions to mind. Are your claim markers in place and properly filled out?

Did you point them out to these people?

Are you saying that the Northern Utah Prospector's Association no longer has any valid claims?

Have you owned that claim for quite awhile or is it fairly new to you?

Is it possible that you are in error? It sure seems that your juridiction would be easy for the officer to verify.

I'm not taking sides, but it could be that this group of folks was misled. This would be especially true if they paid memberships to NUPA, and were told this was a valid club claim.

I hope this gets settled peacefully and properly.

  
canyoncityraised
01:14:07 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

"who is in charge of mining at the forest service"...

All federal land claim records in the state are run through the BLM office in Boise. The advice they gave me was to pull my info off www.blm.gov, and try to avoid the entire quarter section that shows an active claim. They admitted their mapping software isn't accurate, and to try to cozy up next to someone's claim requires a trip into their office... or play phone/fax tag I guess. As for enforcement each National Forest used to employ a law enforcement officer... if this is no longer the case the responsibility for law enforcement will be at the county level, then state. If you walk into their office w/ evidence (papers, pics, gps, etc) say the magic words:
"I would like to file a criminal complaint of a theft in progress"
They have to take that seriously and investigate/enforce the law, if they fail to do so, go to the staters, If that doesnt work, I don't know... call Gov. Butch, or Sam Colt If you want to be the one they investigate. Best of luck, and my offer still stands to be the big guy holding a shovel, or camera... those magic words should do the trick though.

  
DeadWod
13:19:49 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

All four markers are in place and marked, we gave them a copy of our map, even discussed the boundries and they chose to ignore them. NUPA apparently had permission to prospect the claim that abuts ours, but again they chose to mine ours. We are meeting the County Sherrif Rick, Russ from Idaho City Forest Service and someone from the Mountain Home district at the property today. Will let you know how it turns out. Its our understanding that they have been cited and kicked off, now staying on private property.

  
DeadWod
23:12:08 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

Well the meeting at the claim didn't go as I had hoped. Russ Hicks from The Idaho City Forest Service office, had an "opinion". He had maps of his "opinion". Apparently the Elmore County Sheriff (Rick) and the Forest Service Law Enforcement person (Travis or Barney Fife) who was always flanking us, were going with Russ' "opinion" Even though these maps pretty much showed the same boundries that we had, and we located all four of our monuments, the fuzzy "opinion went south from there. Since we were unable to locate any monuments for the claim that abuts ours, and that they supposedly have permission to be on, that was staked before ours, our monuments appear to be useless. They suggested that we contact the owners of the other claim and ask them where their monuments are, if they abut us shouldn't they be there? Not sure where to go from here. We were treated as if we were the criminals, these folks are claiming shots were fired during our previous encounter. More "opinions".

  
kamikaze1a
23:56:06 Fri
Jul 17 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

I would contact this fellow "Russ" boss and let him/her know that Russ is send people to your legal claim. Or Russ' boss' boss...

  
LipCa
03:12:44 Sat
Jul 18 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

Deadwod,
You need to know/find out where the other claims corners are.....If you overlapped a valid claim when you staked yours, they may be right.
They would not necessarly "abut" you. Where the corners are can sometimes be in a different location than where the legal description says they are. And, where it is on the ground usually holds.
Hope you are right....

  
canyoncityraised
19:08:45 Sat
Jul 18 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

So you showed them your valid markers, paperwork etc. These guys had nothing... and they treat you like you are wrong. Wow.

Even though you are on F.S. land the mining claim records are all consolidated through the BLM office. Your 'map reader" Russ needs to be an interested observer standing behind the BLM guy that actualy holds the official records in his office. Get the BLM guy with the final word into this mess or you will be S.O.L. from the looks of things.

  
Geo_Jim
05:47:59 Mon
Jul 20 2009

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Re: Claim Jumpers

The federal land management agencies have always stayed out of these sort of problems. It is between the claimants and the trespassers. The agencies just have records like location notices and mining plans.

The locations of mining claims on the ground are paramount to their paper locations. I think you should cover your rearend of being not where you think your are by getting your claim GPSed in. See how that fits with the claim maps that the BLM and the USFS has. The USFS may even do this for you if you ask them politely. You may need to get a professional surveyor to do it too. If your claim is where it is supposed to be, then you are definitely in the right and can legally have them enjoined from mining and maybe even trespass camping there. You can sue them for the gold they stole.

I can not believe the USFS would permit NUPA to not have their claim boundaries well posted and marked. The feds are asking for trouble by not demanding a plan of operations/notice of intent from NUPA to clearly and obviously post the boundaries.

Do the trespassers have a permit (notice of intent)) to mine there? If the USFS was doing their job properly they would insist that this sort of messiness be straightened up before anybody went mining. Do any of you have permits from the USFS?:confused:
Geo Jim

  
redwood
13:40:45 Mon
Jul 20 2009

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14 posts
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Re: Claim Jumpers

No No No Geo Jim,

This is exactly what we've been fighting so hard with the FS for so long. You don't need or want a notice of intent or plan of operation. This is only required if you are making a significant disturbance (heavy equipment use, falling trees etc.)

Please read up on past court cases and forum discussions on this topic.

Mike O.

  
LipCa
14:26:02 Mon
Jul 20 2009

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649 posts
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Re: Claim Jumpers

Geo_ Jim,

I'll have to take partial exception to your statement:

"If your claim is where it is supposed to be, then you are definitely in the right and can legally have them enjoined from mining "

Having your corners exactly where your description says does no good if you have, by some chance,(like not finding the adjacent claim corners before you locate your claim) overlap an adjacent claim.

If you are the first there, I definately agree with your statement. But, you don't have to be exact to still be in the right.

And, why?? would you need a plan POA or NOI to "clearly and obviously post the boundries" ???

Redwood is right. An POA/NOI is not required unless you are making a significant disturbance

  

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