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dredger
22:29:37 Tue
Feb 17 2009

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Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey kaveman,

Sorry trouble with the computer, "again ", :confused:, seems to work in the mornings, not in the afternoon, ??.

next drawing, please note, the drawing on the right is similar to my method, and drawing the left is i suggest very possible, and ideal for working well away from the flow,

,
testing,
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 22:31:38 Tue Feb 17 2009]

  
dredger
02:12:40 Wed
Feb 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, please note drawing on right side,

1, is the hand stacked canvas lined ROCK dam across the main flow to raise the level in the dam , so that it then flows back into the work hole, ( causing the level to rise, meaning that i did "not have to dirty the main flow by digging with the excavator into the main flow, ), ( a point I pointed out to all the inspectors, actually one many precautions , which resulted in factually answering the question, " does your operation dirty up or silt the main flow, ANSWER being NO, )
2, is the flow into the work hole, Please note I forgot to draw a small work hole outlet,
3, is 2x13hp Honda's,
4, is high pressure lay flat hoses to the jet,
5, is filtration pond,
6, is clean filter water reentering the main flow, ( please note, that when starting up the dredge in the morning, the filtration trench had mostly drained out, ( the foot valve pond area, was deeper and always had enough water to start the pumps, and basically pumped enough water or primed the silt pond/ foot valve area,, enough to get to dredging, only after a few hours dredging will the pond fill enough to stat filtering out through the dam / filter walls, ( so don't expect to see clean flowing water for a few hours, ).
7, was about the wall on which the sluice sits, and water "not " seeping between the work hole and the silt pond behind, if your situation is at anytime similar, and your work hole is obviously leaking "out" , some canvas can be used to stop the leaking, ( if you loose the canvas ,it will breakdown and not a prob for the enviro, ), so I don't suggest plastic sheeting, , )

Left drawing is an idea on recycling clean filter water by pumping immediatly back into work hole,

Opps,sorry ,back asap.

  
overtheedge
16:53:06 Wed
Feb 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Another material I have contemplated for lining a dike is newspaper. A couple or three layers (pages) should be enough and its readily biodegradeable.

  
dredger
06:26:08 Thu
Feb 19 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey overtheedge,

Interesting idea mate, when you back filling the "soaked"paper would be pulverized, gone, makes sense, but the Greene's down under would complain I would be littering,:confused:, however I do know reused canvas stop them in their tracks, :smile:.
Ps, Great Post , "on the gold/platinum hostility, again ",

Ok 1, is a water source,say a creek - +100 yds away, and a water pump big enough to prime the work/silt pond,
2,, is high pressure lay flat hose,
2, is the wormhole,
3 dredge, and area,
4, is motors pumps,
5, is silt pond,
6,clean water being filtered from the silt pond, dam/filter wall,
6 1/2,( in pink ) is single bucket width trench, up to the work hole, please note green line is green canvas clean water pond sealer/liner,

sorry more computer probs.


  
dredger
23:38:05 Thu
Feb 19 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

7, is the work hole wall, I suggest the difference between the work hole "water level" , and the filtered clean water level, could or should be around 6" to 8" , so to "transfer or pump" the required amount water into the workhole, either an eductor jet, " similar size to the eductor jet being used to remove or suck the water /gravel out of the work hole" ,
8, is high pressure hose, which is an extra motor/pump/fuel, point of interest here, is it may require a much larger motor/pump to pump enough water to run a dredge " if you are pumping up hill over long distances, and there is also a possible disadvantages with water or that much water returning to the stream or river, ect , so I suggest a filter/recycling concept would be cheaper in the long run,
9, is eductor jet,
10 is water level in work hole, as opposed to water level in clean water pond, roughly,

I trying to get some pics up, work/rehabed sites,

  
dredger
01:06:01 Fri
Feb 20 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.



Please note, the tree in the centre of the river bed, Marked at the letter ( I ) is the reference point shown in pics previously,

testing,

  
dredger
01:24:52 Fri
Feb 20 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

last pic shows aerial pic of rehabilitated excavator dredge site, discolouration of work area can be seen, ( usually i will drop a small fir hose pump in, and hose the silt and dirt off, then the area of disturbance can not be seen at all, ), the road on the gravel bed along the bank, stays, as it is the farmers,

J, is another excavator /dredge site,

Next pic is another site just down river , in the hole, with no gold,
,
Just for fun,
,
Same hole ,and the picture is taken from the opposite bank,
This aerial pic shown the site, has been rehabed, and there has been " no significant environmental damage " . site was open ONE day,
.

  
kaveman
22:44:59 Sat
Feb 21 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Finally getting a chance to catch up,.......

Our operation is going to need to be more like the drawing on the left(first set). For one, we'd be shot if we attempted to dam the river, even if it was physically possible, which it isn't. No matter. Pumping will solve that problem and also let us work further away from the river. We may need to work as far as 700' from our water source. For this year, we'll be restricted to 300' due to available hose. I'd also like to avoid having the water running back to the river, even if perfectly filtered. We have plenty of room to just let it seep into the bar.

Taking an idea from the left diagram, if we find that water doesn't seep quickly enough through the dikes to maintain the pond level we can just link the ponds with a tailings-filled trench to allow easy progress of the filtered water. Looks easy enough to construct with a few minutes on the hoe.

I think the most important point for us will be to remain a fair distance from the river so as to not incur the wrath of the local authorities. Once we get a feel for what we're doing we can get some acceptable plan in place to work the edges. We're just digging to see what we can see for now. Below are a few aerial shots of the bar. In total, maybe 35ac between river and road. As you can see, it's currently located on the outside bend of the river, but it was once the inside bend before the river was turned from its course. Still not sure if that is a man-made feature, but I suspect it is. Angles are too sharp and the flow doesn't seem natural, but our patent paperwork from the 1870's shows the river in its current location, so if it was laid over towards the north, it had to have been done between 1860 and 1874 and that seems to be quite an accomplishment for that early period. Working on the pics,.......

  
kaveman
23:07:34 Sat
Feb 21 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

OK, close view, the river is flowing from the upper right to center left. Our ground is the large bar at lower center. USFS land all around except for the property downstream. For scale, the area of the pic is about 3/4 mile wide by 1/2 mile tall.

In this pic, #1 is the general area we intend to test first. #2 is an area of steep grade and blown bedrock where practically no material drops out. #3 is the crescent of vegetation that defines the old river bed.

[1 edits; Last edit by kaveman at 23:09:17 Sat Feb 21 2009]

  
kaveman
23:14:01 Sat
Feb 21 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

To make it a little more interesting, we'll zoom out a bit and see what's just upstream from this bar,....



The area circled in the upper right is an old hydraulic mine on some ancient river gravels that covers 25-30ac. It was worked from the late 1850's through 1910 or so and worked three different levels, originally as a drift mine and later as a hydraulic. Sluices with wood block riffles emptied directly into that fast flowing bedrock area. The bend of the river above the old mine has not historically produced very much gold. We spent a summer punching around up there with an 8" dredge and never found enough to bother with a cleanup. I've never heard of anyone else doing much better.

But below that old mine the river has been VERY rich, with hundreds of ounces recovered by dredgers. I've personally seen a hundred ounces from the meager material in the blown bedrock of the rapids, with reports of hundreds(if not thousands)more coming from the river section fronting the bar. Whenever there's a good sized flood, that bar is submerged and the river is bound to be carrying gold up into the outer channel and across the bar.

Question is,............who's been there and when? I haven't been able to uncover any records of production for the property. It's hardly mentioned at all as far as mining, although it does pop up in a search as a 'place'. It's listed as a drift mine in the records, but the only way it could have been drifted would have been vertically with scattered shafts going down to bedrock and tunnels spidering out.
[2 edits; Last edit by kaveman at 23:42:22 Sat Feb 21 2009]

  
dredger
23:40:11 Tue
Feb 24 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Question is,............who's been there and when? I haven't been able to uncover any records of production for the property. It's hardly mentioned at all as far as mining, although it does pop up in a search as a 'place'. It's listed as a drift mine in the records, but the only way it could have been drifted would have been vertically with scattered shafts going down to bedrock and tunnels spidering out.

To answer to that question, I would like to suggest some points of interest,
This type of drift mining method, shafts going down to bedrock and tunnels spidering out.
was exceptionally successful at cleaning the crevices, in areas that have " extremely dry periods " . the point being ,if there has been too much water flow, the old timers would have left it, so I suggest if your looking for rich crevices, there would not be much hope of finding a really rich one ,( but ya never know ) if the flow does or has at some time dried out in the ?? last 200 years,ya in trouble,
Usually this type of operation, Multiple shafts, were usually dug by a gang of ? inexperienced diggers payed by a boss, and the boss or the bosses "boys " (well paid experienced miners ) actually did the final dig on bedrock level with a candle or kero lamp, and got the gold and or the best cons on and just above bedrock and gave it to the boss, so the "diggers "did not care if there was gold or not, they were payed by the holes, ( and watched to see they did not "pocket "any gold,
We do know that metal detector guys find nice nuggets on the mounds discarded by old miners, by "inexperience or mistakes " ,
An old miner mate,Peter ( god bless his soul for being such a kind man that he was for our 25 years ), told me or actually placed me back in time some 80 years when he remember at the age of about 7, he would walk along holding on the side of a wheel barrow, weaving in and out of these vertical drift mine piles of dirt, ( in Auss )( he was pointing out to " me " a very large rich area, bit smaller then yours, ), he also told me the old ( poor looking miner ) wheeling the barrow would pay a dwt of gold for a wheel barrow full of dirt from any pile he liked, he ( Peter )was also showed that because the old miner was very good at picking his dirt, the old miner usually got over 4 dwts, a clear 3 and over dwt per wheel barrow, at 4-6 barrows through a old rocker a day was good gold for old poor looking miner, who keep his mouth shut,
Peter also told me that as he grow up on the gold fields with his father , ( 1930 ) who was also a good miner, Peter had also done the wheelbarrow method and noted that good gold was also found in layers well above the bedrock, layers which vertical drift miners where not concerned with, because they were heading straight down to bedrock ,
Another point is that most vertical drift mining (above river flow ) was followed by Hyd mining, which also resulted ( usually ) in good gold,

So, my opinion on my area, there is still good gold to be found in the lower levels of ancient gravel beds above the already ( vertical drifted ) cleaned bedrock, provided I can process quickly, especially in my area.

To quickly locate and or pin point the drift shafts in my area,( or any area that can be drained ) I would first drain the area with a trench, ( or pump, ), and lower the water level around the shafts,( " without effecting or lowering the flow level in the main river stream,) then using the excavator I would drag back or scrap off, ?? !0' to 20' ??. the overburden left by floods ( overburden would have varying depths according to strength of the biggest previous floods and how much of the upper shaft has been eroded off the top of the shaft, ) excavate to show the lower levels of the shaft holes, ( which should or could also contain or exposed "shaft timbers ") which are not a problem to the excavator, but are a prob to processing units,

Also I would suggest that the middle concentration of the exposed shafts, would show and follow the deepest gullies eroded into the bedrock and or the main run of gold ""deposited "" during the/that " time period " that the river eroded away or ( down ) from the upper bench, ( old hyd mine pictured) or deposited shortly after.

Sorry gotta run, back asap,

Ps, please note, I am not suggesting you should uncover the hole area, I am only suggesting a way to search for vertical drifts mining activity under overburden, other then mine records/ ect.

Another point, is if you just start digging and dredging as " you plan" , you will see and find shaft timbers/broken pick tips ect, and see / find already broken up crevices,

dredger.:confused:

  
kaveman
07:08:43 Wed
Mar 4 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

from dredger,........so I can save this whole,.......

"So, my opinion on my area, there is still good gold to be found in the lower levels of ancient gravel beds above the already ( vertical drifted ) cleaned bedrock, provided I can process quickly, especially in my area.

To quickly locate and or pin point the drift shafts in my area,( or any area that can be drained ) I would first drain the area with a trench, ( or pump, ), and lower the water level around the shafts,( " without effecting or lowering the flow level in the main river stream,) then using the excavator I would drag back or scrap off, ?? !0' to 20' ??. the overburden left by floods ( overburden would have varying depths according to strength of the biggest previous floods and how much of the upper shaft has been eroded off the top of the shaft, ) excavate to show the lower levels of the shaft holes, ( which should or could also contain or exposed "shaft timbers ") which are not a problem to the excavator, but are a prob to processing units,

Also I would suggest that the middle concentration of the exposed shafts, would show and follow the deepest gullies eroded into the bedrock and or the main run of gold ""deposited "" during the/that " time period " that the river eroded away or ( down ) from the upper bench, ( old hyd mine pictured) or deposited shortly after.

Sorry gotta run, back asap,

Ps, please note, I am not suggesting you should uncover the hole area, I am only suggesting a way to search for vertical drifts mining activity under overburden, other then mine records/ ect.

Another point, is if you just start digging and dredging as " you plan" , you will see and find shaft timbers/broken pick tips ect, and see / find already broken up crevices,

dredger.


  
dredger
01:36:31 Thu
Mar 5 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

No worries Kaveman, I still have a lot suggestions and a few drawings for anyone wanting to try dredging with a excavator, , think about it, one dredger, and a machine that easily digs like a hundred miners, :devil:.

Also can you tell me if that is a homestead or old or still active mine at the bottom left corner please, ??.

dredger,

  
kaveman
03:16:41 Thu
Mar 5 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Just a vacation home,..........single wide trailer on about three acres that I'd like to buy. Been vacant for several years. No sign of mining. That's my only neighbor and I'd like to have the land as a buffer to the next place downriver.

  
dredger
06:03:10 Thu
Mar 5 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Three acres, good luck on that, nice spot for a trailor or definatly moveable accomadation, I am thinking ( depending on the fall behind where you want to work, ) might be able to run a drainage pipe under there to drain your work areas, ??.

Maybe he might rent it, ??.

  
dredger
23:24:46 Mon
Mar 16 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Kaveman.

I am working on DRAWINGS of that S/B/B BUCKET concept , I have not forgot you, just bussy as, dredger.

  
kaveman
00:25:03 Tue
Mar 17 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Thanks dredger,................I'm still following all the threads. Itching to get out there for the diggin'. We'll be starting in early April and will be off-line most of the time until later in May. Hopefully I'll have some stories to tell and pics to show. Wish us luck.

  
dredger
06:18:13 Tue
Mar 17 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, early April to may, sounds good, is there a flow or flooding problem, actually i google earth the Klamath, and those pics show alot more water in the river, ??.

I was thinking of suggesting we discuss some lead up points of interest for the new guys who want or are thinking about dredging with a excavator, in the near future, as well as methods,ect,
We can have a part 3,4,5, ect, ??.
For my Machines to do my dredging, I had a caravan which attached ( under canvas ) to a mobile workshop,( welder/ gas cutting, tools , spare parts, i could park and work on the excavator under canvas, out of the weather, susy long wheelbase ute, trailer for motors/ pumps, trailer for sluice, ( heavy duty, so i could move the bucket, /blade/ sucker nozzle, ) form site to site, or the excavator could carry them, 20 ton excavator, 8" dredge, and a good car to do the shopping in, me the wife and baby, occasionally, mates, brothers,
I hope we can run through different aspects of dredging with an excavator , perhaps help some new guys make up their mind, ??. ,
To start I suggest operating a excavator is not that hard, if you drive a car, you can learn to drive a machine, I really recommend that anyone who has never ever driven an excavator first contact their local training centre, get the paper work info and take it home and study it, few weeks to a few months, how ever long it takes for you to learn the paper work, then sign up for 3 days of instruction, using their machines,they will train and licence you to work on building site, as well as all safety aspects, so digging on a river is a piece of cake,
Excavators are the simplest of machines in that there is a diesel engine, hyd oil pump, control valves ,and a few hyd motors, and a few rams, ( no gear boxes, clutches, diffs, )

Gotta run, kaveman, please post anything you can think of , and of cause any pics youk might have,
Anyone got any questions, please don't hesitate.
dredger.


  
kaveman
04:04:58 Wed
Mar 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

I'm still in the 'splashing around' phase and really don't know enough about it yet to add anything. I'm sure you're right about the excavator,.............I expect to be pretty handy with it after a few days of practice.

No flooding worries this time of year. I wouldn't want to leave equipment out on the bar over the winter, but most of the historic floods have happened within a week or two of Jan1. By now the river is generally dropping and it's not difficult to predict where it's going because we know what the snow levels are like in the mountains and there are several dams upriver that I can call daily for release info and reservoir levels.


  
dredger
06:27:36 Wed
Mar 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

hey Kaveman,

No mate, you are adding already, you said " "No flooding worries this time of year. I wouldn't want to leave equipment out on the bar over the winter, but most of the historic floods have happened within a week or two of Jan1."
You have to be ready to move or loose, at all times, walking the excavator to safer area takes no time at all, and local flash flooding is always on the cards, I left my dredge for 3 days, and had to risk my life to get it back,
you said,",.............I expect to be pretty handy with it after a few days of practice. ",
I suggest there are 3 points of interest here, 1, don't under any circumstances let anyone work or watch you dig, from within or under the reach of the machine, 2, being " if you can drain and refill the hole you are digging, you will be able to see the bedrock as you dig the hole, and the big rocks, 3, if you cannot or do not drain the hole easily, ( other method ), I suggest you have the line of thought where you remember where the bedrock/big rocks is and at which depth, in dirty water you cannot see, so I sort of have a 3D picture / map in my head of each hole, this will save the machine from to much knocking around and damage,also mental mapping is a necessity when dredging with a cutter head dredge,
Good idea there, I can call daily for release info and reservoir levels, :smile:
Also, would you like to discuss some spots in your pics where you might find some easy gold, ??.
Also, do you have a good knowledge of excavator repairers / parts for your machine, in your area,
Also, as you might know, if the engine stops in most excavators, the tracks are automatically locked, and you cannot move the machine,if your machine is similar to mine a small petrol / hyd pump can be used to release the brakes, and if the machine is fairly level, you can winch/ or tow the excavator with a good 4x4 or dozer / tractor, even with the bucket and arms dragging behind, and maneuver it by braking on one track,
There is a lot of little tricks for when or if you blow a ram hose or have a leaky rotary valve, or break a track drive, which I hope to cover asap,
One thing that will scare the heck out you is when ya excavator makes alot of loud metal banging noises then stops, right in the wrong place, this is usually a blocked fuel filter, very scary until you figure it out, so I suggest you go through your fuel filter system right from the tank to the fuel pump, get to know it thoroughly, and keep it clean, and all threads free so they do not snap bolts when your in a hurry,
All maintenance is like insurance to ensure you don't break down,
I would also suggest or say in my opinion that the excavator is the best machine to repair / breakdown on site compared to loaders or bulldozers, easy quick repairs with minimum time down, if you have done your home work, and are ready,

Sorry gotta run,

  
kaveman
14:13:21 Wed
Mar 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

In our particular situation, we have the advantage of the three controlled dams upriver to prevent flooding. The Klamath River is somewhat unique,........the upper reaches flow through rolling agricultural land and only the lower 100 miles or so flow through the mountains into the sea. Most of the drainage area lies above the dams(although localized heavy rains between our area and the dam can bring the levels up quickly, especially early in the spring if there's a good snowpack in the hills). We're also working relatively far away from the water and the valley is fairly wide in our section which reduces the flood hazard, but we'll still always be concerned with it. A dam break or a serious eruption of Mt Shasta would take out our entire operation, but it would also take out the road and every bridge and town along the lower Klamath, so it wouldn't matter too much.

Your first point is way up front in my mind. Can't find it now, but somewhere on one of the excavator forums there was a link to a video where the cameraman was right on the edge of the pit filming an excavator digging a hole. Evidently he was within an inch or two of the swing radius. When that bucket goes winging by it really gets your attention. I realize that my mining plan has the bucket swinging in a complete 360 degree circle for nearly every load, so I am concerned with keeping people outside of the arc. Don't see how I can get anything done if that point isn't addressed. I do believe the holes will remain dry while digging. We expect to have to pump water into them to dredge the bedrock.

I now have service manuals, operator manuals, and parts manuals for the excavator. I'm also somewhat familiar with hydraulic systems. I hope to be working on the machine within the next couple of weeks doing the normal servicing and filter changes. It's been sitting on the property for almost a year and that hasn't been done yet. Only have 3-4 hours run time on it in that year, so it's still pretty new to me. My only advantage is that I have a neighbor who spent 30yrs working on/with these things, and he's very interested in the operation and willing to help.

  
kaveman
14:58:46 Wed
Mar 18 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

OH goody,......map dowsing!

OK, here's a reworked pic with some info I know(or at least THINK I know),.....




Yellow outlines my bar. I can't work outside of that. They won't let me dig up the highway. I also can't touch the water. The green arc and #3 is the old channel and will probably have some standing water in it early in the spring, so I want to stay out of that. There's also an unsubstantiated rumor that a small bucketline dredge once followed that line.

#1 is the general area we plan to work this spring. It's at the head of the bar and the ground is fairly shallow to bedrock,..........5-10'. Down at area #4 it's more like 25-30' to bedrock and probably 15-20' above the river. #2 is the rapids and mostly blown bedrock. The brown lines on the northern bars are areas that are consistently productive to highbankers. The white lines are the same, except I've actually seen some of those results and they tend to be nuggety. Purple lines were very good dredging with lots of gold. Actually, all the river from #2 downstream has been very rich, but I've seen or dredged the purple myself. The red circle at the point of the bar is naturally very low above the river and clear of material except for a covering of flat boulders. I'd like to see what's under them, but not just yet.

BTW, I'm keeping the posts short so they don't get cut off. I hate that.
[2 edits; Last edit by kaveman at 15:03:55 Wed Mar 18 2009]

  
dredger
06:21:12 Fri
Mar 20 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

OH goody,......map dowsing! I agree, :smile:.
I am working on a few of your pics, maybe get some points of interest across a bit clearer for the new guys,
Your post was short, and sweet, lots of good homework there, and good info.
Actually, i have been working on some Google Earth pics of my area, showing the sources and where I found gold,I am also trying to show topographic maps, I thought i would start a new thread ( Dredging W / excavator Part 3, ??. showing my area, one of the points of interest will be why, sometimes gold does " not " run on the inside of the bend, i thought the new guys would be interested, ,

Anyway , I better get to the pics, back asap,

It will be interesting to hear your ideas where the vertical shafts may have been or be located, ??, you wrote,
#1 is the general area we plan to work this spring. It's at the head of the bar and the ground is fairly shallow to bedrock,.......
ops, sorry gotta run, dredger,



  
dredger
02:29:44 Sun
Mar 22 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Sorry been busy as,

Kaveman, sorry , I have a few points for the new guys thinking about trying dredging with a excavator, I have to get out of my head, quick as,

Ok, new guys who has never ever thought about having an excavator , may think that a excavator may be too hard to operate, especially blind, under dirty water, ( down 30 feet deep ) and can he make good money side lining his operator skills, as a machine operator for hire with or without his excavator,
1, working in dirty water, ??.
2, making good money as a machine operator, ??.
So, 1, simple exercise to see if a new guy could operate, in dirty water, which is all about ( in my opinion ) keeping ya "eyes focused "" on the excavator bucket, ( angle /position ) practice ( when you can see the B) , and keeping ya " minds eye focused " on the excavator bucket ( when you can not see the B ),
To show how easy this is,( with practice ) try this exercise, get a 20 litre plastic bucket, and 12 fist size rocks, and make your self comfortable, reaching into the bucket, ,place 3 rocks on top of each other on the bottom of the bucket, then other 3 until you have 4 piles of rocks, any sequence you like, then move you hand around the bucket base using your eyes and hand," without knowing the rocks over, practice this for a few minutes, then add 20 or so litres of very dirty water so that you cannot see the rocks, , I suggest you will still be able to move your hand or hands around and over the rocks fairly quickly, ( using your minds eye ) without knocking over the rocks,with a little practice," no problems " you pass the dredgers hand in the bucket exercise and can be an operator, :smile:, ( if you do not knock too many rocks over, after, some practice,),
My point here is I suggest being a good operator is about eyes and focus on the bucket, without consciously thinking about which hand to use on which control, I suggest complete focus is on the eye /bucket, or minds eye/ bucket,
2, is the reason for the blar blar above is if the new guy also wants to work for a earth moving company, ( to make good money of of mining, or more to the point, " out of mining season, ) who specializes in Plant hire and plant operators will have excavators with a similar 2 control stick controls, BUT the functions of the 2 sticks vary between machine manufactures, and that can be a problem, I suggest again, that having the focus on the eyes on the bucket line of thought , enables most operators can adapt to the unfamiliar controls within minutes, " with some practice ", the problem becomes a problem when trying to remember , ( not feel ), which controls do what, on which machine, and I get a brain "block ", it is very easy to do,( allot of operators can easily do, ) just focus on the seeing the bucket, and letting ya subconscious mind work out the controls, and you will be fine, it is not that hard,

better post ,




  
dredger
04:02:29 Sun
Mar 22 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.


Back in the thread, for the new guys, I mentioned mentioned blowing a hose and or a track drive in the Middle of the river,
Ok, blowing a bucket hose or dipper arm hose is not really a problem, I suggest caps and or replacement hoses be keep in the spares box for the machine, EPA are always concerned about accidents, and to oil dripping from the machine around the motor, hyd pump, control valves, ect, I use or place small dishes to catch leaking oil inside on the floor any compartments,
Blowing a ram seal is a bigger job, but can be easily fixed, just more time,
Breaking planetary gears in a track final drive can be made even worse by trying to move the machine, ( the broken bits grind into the rest of the drive and do even more damage, ) to move the machine to a better place to work on it can be done by using the arm/bucket / slew and the working track drive, done slowly with care, a broken track drive can be nursed for long distances,
I suggest " spare " and correct seals should also be on hand for the " Rotary Valve " that is located under the base mounting/pivot point of the boom, which enables the upper carriage to slew 360 /720 ect degrees on the under carriage, and still supply hyd oil to the track drives, ( it not much of a seal kit, to keep as a spare, ) also can be repaired quickly, provided the bulk of the hyd oil is drained from the hyd oil tank, quickly, again a suitable size tub/ tray can be placed/ hung/ tied in under the leaking rotary valve, to move it ,
Sorry gotta run,

  
Geo_Jim
23:00:56 Tue
Mar 24 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

When you say hydraulic elevators, I think of the following figures. This is in keeping with my historic mining methods I copied these out of "Hydraulic Mining" by C.C. Longridge of the Mining Journal 1910.




I think this second figure is a scene from around Nome.:smile:
Geo Jim

  
dredger
01:46:53 Wed
Mar 25 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Jim,

Interesting post, I wonder if you have heard of a book , " Metallurgy of gold, Essler 1896, ?. very interesting story, and illustrations as yours,

Please Keep up the good work on your other thread,
Historic Mining Methods, it sort of lets a miner know about his roots in history, :smile:

dredger,

  
dredger
03:44:42 Wed
Mar 25 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

To move it , I mean to move the excavator,
So there is heaps more little tips for the new guy who wants to dredge w/ excavator, coming soon,

Map dowsing,excellent info kaveman, where the gold runs "now" and the big question , where it ran before,??. and where will the evidence of vertical shaftings , ( which is relivant because the timber used in the shafts could damage or disrupt the recovery unit, ),

Next pic , shows where gold can be found / runs on both inside and outside the bend,

testing,

  
dredger
06:33:11 Wed
Mar 25 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

New Guys please note,

No, 1 is the blue arrows pointing to where gold has built up on and in the gravels on the inside bend, Kaveman says,
But below that old mine the river has been VERY rich, with hundreds of ounces recovered by dredgers. I've personally seen a hundred ounces from the meager material in the blown bedrock of the rapids, with reports of hundreds(if not thousands)more coming from the river section fronting the bar. Whenever there's a good sized flood, that bar is submerged and the river is bound to be carrying gold up into the outer channel and across the bar.
No 2, is the gold run " originating " from travelling on the inside of the previous bend,( under old mine site,)
No 3, is the protruding bedrock causing the gold run to change sides of the river,
Next is some dowsing, and some suggestion on where I could manipulate the flow so as to be able to work /dredge gravels in a similar situation as Kavemans , please note I will show where I have been wrong on previous occasions in the "dredging w/excavator Part 3", hopefully coming soon,
Please note, no4,purple line, I suggest using tree trunks and canvas, a small removable dam be built to control and stop as much water flow as possible down the green strip where a creek also runs, Also the dam would allow me to direct as much flow as needed to operate a dredge,
No 5, is is the possible position of the vertical shaft activity previously discussed,
No 6, please note the holes dug are further apart at the rear of the gravel bed, i suggest these are only exploratory holes, with little gold,
No 7, in purple ( and hard to see ), ( sorry ), indicates holes /shafts are closer together , I suggest the reason being they were deeper shafts, ( new Please note, ), from my information , a lot of this type of river gravels were pretty unstable, so the old miners would place the shafts close together, and if there was a cave in a miners shaft, they could dig to the next closest shaft, and or be dug out by other miners more quickly, this would also indicate the likely place were gold travelled, at a time when the area No3, did not force the gold to area No1, ( thousands of years ago, ) I suggest at that time the bedrock was eroded to have perhaps 6' by 6' channels or channel running down stream,direction indicated by the purple blotches ( in the shape of an arrow, ),

Sorry gotta run,

  
kaveman
14:34:48 Wed
Mar 25 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

That's pretty good cipherin' dredger. Several parts of what you've spelled out strike me as being highly probable. #3 is an interesting thought,............more later. 5, 6, and 7 look very reasonable, too, as does your description of the material. Maybe it firms up as you go deeper and further back in time, but the upper levels are pretty unstable, loose and sandy. Timbering in old shafts won't be a problem for now, but maybe later if we bring in larger and more automated equipment.

As for #4, that may not be doable due to the size of the river and the fact that any work in/near the river will bring unwanted attention, but it probably isn't necessary anyway. There really isn't a creek on the green line,...........just a low lying damp area during the wetter months. It's got river in it during flood years, but most years it's just a few pools in early spring and most of that water is probably seepage off the hillside to the south, although there is a small seasonal creek that flows in from the south at about the midpoint of the bar. It quickly goes underground and doesn't cross the surface of the bar. Here are a couple more pics,................

  

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