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dredger
02:51:09 Mon
Sep 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, i am doing some very rough drawings on old bucket pics, and asking myself how do I explain or emphasize the enormous suction and water pressure I intend to have operating in or around the bucket as it rips and I mean rips 2 cubic meters of fairly packed river gravels, or , for basically 2-3 seconds in each 6 second period or " pass " ,( fill the bucket and deliver to hopper very close by ) please note I am also referring to using 2 x 30 ton excavators, and a processing unit about the size 40 ‘ container, mounted on a 20-30 ton excavator track base, so this would be a “ high speed materials handling concept “ ( top of the range ) where ( among other things ), the bucket would be fitted with a “ screened “ suction nozzle”, capable of sucking / extracting /separating around 1 .5 to 2.5 cubic meters of screened materials /slurry /under screen size ( ½” to 3/4” ) .in the bucket as fills itself with say a 2 cu meter of over screen size rocks/slurry, I would further suggest that forces in the bucket would greatly assist clearing the suction screen and that the under size material would be sucked and crushed through all oversize materials containing large rocks, however if that is not enough, there is another trick which should clear the screen fairly well on it own,

Now referring to the high water pressure side or part of the “bucket concept “ , ok , high pressure is a bit of an under statement , and the idea will be to force around 1.5 cu meters /volume of water through a manifold situated , no integrated onto the back of the bucket,which will direct ( at this point of time ) 1.5 cubic meters of fairly clean water, at hopefully around 11,000 psi at a small area across and from behind the bucket teeth, which will be biting into the work face, where the high pressure flush will hopefully lift gold off bedrock and hard packed gravel into the work face,as well liquefying the materials and bouncing them back into the crowding/ filling bucket, off the work face,

The previously mentioned “ other trick “ to clear the screen inside the bucket,, would be direct or re-direct the high pressure water from the manifold on the back of the bucket , to inside the suction manifold on the inside of the bucket , and blow small rock jambed in the suction screen “ out “,

Sorry out of time, next is about my engines and hyd pump i intend on useing, to put muscle into sucking and blasting bucket,

  
dredger
23:52:44 Sat
Oct 3 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Sorry , having computer trouble,:confused:

I have a small selection of 302 cu, 351cu Windsor motors, all LPG, ( Why LPG, ??. 3 reasons,(1) I can get it easily and cheaply on to the site, ( 2 ) refuel without shutting down production, ( 3 ) and there is no pollution,which is a good point to emphasize when making applications to all depts. ),
LPG Injection and twin turbo should provide good torque, through variable speed gearbox to ( 1 ) a Gold Cup Series axial piston pump, Mama, 100GPM / over 300 HP, beautiful, excellent condition, ( Paid $80 dollars at the scrap yard, ).

Sorry back asap. ( gotta go to church ).

  
dredger
02:57:28 Thu
Oct 15 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Sorry again, just after last post , i received a " end of the month deadline " , which has taken every minute of my time and given 4 blisters on my left hand , and 2 on my right hand , sore back too, I now have a 2 day break, then back to it until the end of the month, :confused:.

So , the hyd pump will mainly supply oil to 4 - 6 rams ,( the rams will be similar size to the rams used on the excavator for lifting the boom, each ram connected to a " piston and cylinda " syringe type , about 2 -3 cu yards /water in volume, ) each ram will be fitted with electric servos, only two will supply the high pressure crevice flusher blasts, ( on the high pressure blast , " return stroke " , water will be sucked through filters, and re-fill the piston/cylinda, in around 3 and 1/2 seconds, ) and the other 2 -4 rams / piston / cylinders will also be used to filter water, I expect or hope the blast of water will be strong enough to unsettle the balance of the excavator when applied, which i hope will be adjustable.

Rough drawing of manifold attached " in "contour with the back of the bucket, shown in light blue, Please note, gray hose is high pressure clean filtered water hose to manifold, which will act as ( 1) the high pressure jet, ( 2 ) low pressure clean water supply working in conjunction with " shock proof " zoom camera and light source, ( red hose ) the idea is if I feel a crevice with the bucket teeth, I locate the the bucket and settle the bucket near and on a suitable angle, knock down the excavator idle , remotely kick the processing unit into idle giving low pressure clean water, and suction that will not rip my head off, and watch the screen in front of me, I am guessing, I would see a bright light and dirty dark water, until the low pressure clean water flows pass the camera, as the clean water " displaces " the dirty water, I would see the back of the bucket first , quickly moving down the the bucket to the teeth, then a good well lite, zoomed view of the crevice, ( width of the bucket and a few feet behind the bucket, still being able to move the bucket around slowly, If I see the need i will shut down the excavator and climb down , reach under excavator steps and to get weight belt / tool belt , hooker face mask, and a good length of flexible suction hose and climb down into the muddy water in work hole, work my way over to the bucket, attach suction hose to suction manifold, find nozzle move into low pressure clean water / well lite / high diver visibility crevice area behind bucket, and clean crevice,
Please also note, this concept is very relative to my area, and river gravel beds with a possible equal percentage of fines and over screen size rocks, most probably not suitable for beach sands only, ??. although , where there is a will. there is a way, :confused:
( 2 ) is suction ect, will post before i loose it. back today, I hope.

  
dredger
00:29:09 Fri
Oct 16 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

I have got gremlins in this computer, :confused:.

lost another one, :confused:.

Start again, ( 2 ) is suction ect,
Problem with my area is bedrock can be shallow at times, which is a pain if ya using eductor jet or a big gravel pump suction type concepts , big problems with starting /stopping water flow in the suction hose, when the bucket is lifted out of the water, ( 6" - 8"hose ) so i will be going for a simple ( oversized :devil: ) wet - dry vac concept, I mean this is going to be a mean wet dry vac,

Points of interest concerning a wet and dry vac concept,,
I will not have to worry about starting and stopping the high velocity flow of water or air in the suction hose,
Sorry again, more of this post is trapped on another window, frozen in time, ??>
Here is another rough drawing of the " suction manifold ", inside the bucket,
,

Again, Gray hose is high pressure/ low pressure, Blue hose is suction , Red line is Camera and lighting,

  
dredger
23:34:58 Mon
Oct 19 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Sorry , still working hard to make the end of month deadline,

But , I have taken a flesh lot of pics, and loading them asap, the pics are to :confused:, explain the first ( concept ) ideas on recovering / concentrating cons using a / many " cyclonic , mechanical fluid bed " concentrators, in the suction hose before the vac Pump, that will be a few cu metres of under under screen size materials concentrated down to a few kilograms , in under about 2-3 seconds ,??. wet or dry, even if the 2-3 cu metres is mostly water, working on that,

Sorry again , gotta run , but before i go , i have a bit of blar blar for a good friend of mine who has just told me he may have a opportunity to operate a excavator, gold mining.:devil:.

He stated that he had experience with heavy machines, which got me to thinking the best advice I could suggest to him or any new guy who has no experience in either , is to spend a few bucks and get some training and a licence, I think most people can be very good operators if they learn the right way first, and it really only takes a few hours to to get your licence, and ya learn lots of little tricks that are so handy right up front, think about it this way, could you learn to drive a forklift, ??, a truck , or similar, excavators are easy ,

If i was looking for a operator, I would be impressed if an applicant with no operator experience was keen , and insisted on getting training before he started getting gold, :smile:, I would further suggest that some small mine owners want a excavator/s and a operator for " their mine" , and do not know much or anything about excavators, but they do want high speed materials handling production, by a trained operator,

Sorry gotta run, back asap.


  
dredger
05:03:07 Sat
Oct 24 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, to start , new guys please don't be surprised i am do my testing / theory on a new good quality industrial wet dry vac, and concepts from a well known wet/dry vac maker, namely , their , " heavy particle separator "

For the new guys , we start at the start, I hope these are readable, and please note this conept, is about extracting all materials before they damage the pump,


testing,

  
dredger
00:38:08 Wed
Oct 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

So it is a simple concept that is used allot, attach it to ya big vacuum cleaner and catch most of the heavier bigger materials in this drum, I use my vac wet and dry so I don't think sucking wet materials would be a problem,

Next pic concept is a smaller version of the previous separator, which has a fascinating more truer cyclone ic ( at least more visible ) operation,

Please note, sorry for the short pic, but you will see the hole pic gadget soon,
please also note, on the right of the pic you can see the fine plastic screen filter, black , ( inside clear storage container, through which the ?? filtered air escapes or is sucked through, and dust ect is caught, this turbo duster is placed at and in line with the vac handle,
,
testing.

  
dredger
01:20:45 Wed
Oct 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, so I did that and vaced up some dirt, off the shed floor, basically paint sandings,tar grindings, metal grindings, light weight sg, I then removed the clear outside container, twist and don.t drop it.


And attempted to shake down the heavier metal grindings, and raise the lighter remaining materials to the top, in a similar motion to panning, and yes it was clear that the lighter materials came to the top,heavier materials sank to the bottom, worked the same when I tested in a pan, bring the light stuff to the top,

Please note these theories are basically only at the early stage,
testing,





  
dredger
02:47:15 Wed
Oct 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

So i am thinking , this concept even on a large separator , about 3 and 1/2 cu yds, I would only have to scale up suction velocity, and volume,/ hose size to 8", and also add a trap door mechanism to quickly dump those materials into a hopper to be further processed,

Now I previously mentioned Cyclonic mechanical fluid bed concentrators, which would be placed in front of the above heavy particle separator, and behind the suction nozzle and hose,

Or sorry, point of interest here is I am thinking big, 2 x excavators and a 40' container processing plant and showing very small size concept prototype in pics, please note I will make modifications to see if i can get this concept working, at this stage , well I am at this stage,

testing

  
dredger
03:45:30 Wed
Oct 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

So in Red, from vac nozzle . screen cover is that ,it covers the

Sorry back asap.

  
lsfog
16:13:08 Wed
Oct 28 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Dredger your "vac" idea is close to ONE of my many winter works projects.
I'm currently working an inside river bed / bench which is a fair ways from the water [too far to pump - at least for me].
I have a small gen set and a real good two inch wet / dry vacume.
Same general idea as yours -- shop vac + 2 inch hose > interceptor bucket > smaller 1 1/4 inch suction hose necked down to 1 inch to avoid plug-ups. The buckets -- when 1/2 > 3/4's full [bad back] are then dumped into the ATV trailer thru a 1/4 inch mesh screen. Just before the trailer is ready to fold up like a cheap suitcase I would transport the material to the water & sluice / lawn chair / beverage cooler / shade umbrella -- for processing.
The issue I'm trying to overcome is that the coyote holes are getting so deep that the shovel isn't doing the job.
I'm to cautious [ok chicken] to get into the hole cause if the roof comes down I'd be stuck and ---- well you can guess the other word..... It will be a titch slower than the shovel but after moveing 4 ft of so - so material I'm finally into the good stuff. comments? suggestions? recommendations? are appreciated.

  
Au_Seeker
00:01:49 Thu
Oct 29 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Isfog,

Why not get a small (as wide as the coyote hole and 3' to 4' long) piece of heavy gauge corrugated steel sheeting (I have used this material to pour a concrete slabs over an open space spanning 4' to 5' wide) and then support it with 4-4X4s to keep the roof of the coyote hole from collapsing, then it would be safe for you to go into the hole to dig more material.

Skip

  
dredger
01:54:49 Thu
Oct 29 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Isfog,excellent, it is working, it is a good idea, specially if ya shoveling off overburden on dry / damp bedrock crevices in a dry river bed,too , and generators are great, no foot valve troubles, pump troubles, EPA, ect ect, quite too. higher velocity in the suction hose, if you think about it , vacuum cleaners block at the nozzle, but I don't really get many blockages in vac hose, very different with a suction dredge in a river, lots of blockages in the wet hose,

No mate, I don't think ya chicken . I think ya clever like a fox, who are very cautious, like old mine shafts, new guys please note, holes are dangerous especially when there is not alot of people around, BEWARE.

" It will be a titch slower than the shovel ", mate if ya think about it , who is going to get more tiered first, the guy on the shovel , or the guy is just pocking around with vac cleaner suction pipe nozzle, :devil: plus one day you might move up to 4" all round, then we will see if a shovel is faster.

OOOOOO, got a suggestion for you, you have a bad back, Please note i am assuming
when 1/2 > 3/4's full [bad back] " are then dumped into the ATV trailer thru a 1/4 inch mesh screen ", you are lifting these buckets, in particular when you empty the interceptor bucket, it is a fiddly operation shutting down, undoing the clips , empty the interceptor bucket , reassemble, how about you mount the interceptor bucket low on the trailer, and modify and fit a trap door in the bottom of your interceptor bucket, ( spring loaded, ) then when ya half or 3/4 full, you just pull the trap door lever, and the material falls onto the screen, , ???. you would need extra length of hose, ??.
Are you finding small mud balls or dry balls of materials in your " interceptor bucket " ,????. or going over ya screen, ???.
Love to see under a scope what is in the vac filter, ( assuming it has a paper / felt filter,)

"" I'm finally into the good stuff."" good on you mate,

Isfog , I think you are really on to some thing with ya coyote holes, and i was thinking to myself I could build or you could build a remote controlled coyote digging miniature mini miner, small 2' long x 1' x1' with small tracks, strong electric ( generator,) robotic digging smaller dia hole the ya usual coyote, 20 -30' of electrical umbilical lead to a control box and tv cct screen attached to the lawn chair / beverage cooler / shade umbrella . your existing vac set up plugged into the rear of the ?? mini remote control coyote digger,
Trick here is what about bigger then vac screen size rocks, ??. in the way, ok. dig around them, or just digging out some fine soft round that can be easily vac ed up, ??, and move the bigger rocks into the hole you have dug,

Sorry but i am running out of time, gotta go soon, so quickly , I suggest one of the above plastic mini interceptors may be of a great advantage to you and your operation as you explained it ,

After the mini interceptors above has been modified and tuned from a separator /interceptor, to a " straight through cyclonic mechanical fluid bed concentrator ", ( please note I have not got it working yet but it has many years of thinking behind it ), so if it worked,?? or can be got to work, you could mount this light weight plastic concentrator , in the vac line/hose,close to your coyote hole, and light sg materials/rocks would enter and leave though same size inlet / outlet, and heavy sg /gold would due to it heavier Specific Gravity would be concentrated , in the bottom in plain view to you though the clear plastic container, you will be able to see any build up of gold through the plastic, immediately, and perhaps following or keep digging in the direction or layer that you are seeing the gold building up in the plastic container, ??.

Sorry mate, gotta run, have you got any pics ??, please, dredger.


  
dredger
00:00:26 Wed
Nov 11 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Back to last pic, sorry been real bussy,



The pic shows 3 plastic vac separators, to convert them into a possible concentrator prototypes to test, asap.

Options for use,

1, finely crushed or milled materials, just vac the materials as they are being milled, passing through a number of of this concept, ( cyclonic concentrator with fluid bed ) ,then into secondary recovery, or storage to be further concentration of your choice,, please note , it would be great if this concept works 99.9%, but , 80% would be useful % of gold caught near the nozzle,and gives especially in number 3 concept.
2, gold in beach sands, perhaps screened under 1/4",- 1/8” –1/16” ??.using dry / wet beach sands,also in a wet dry vac concept,

3, full 2 x 30 ton excavators, with 40’ containers , cyclonic concentrators and cyclonic separator /s ( two just to make sure nothing get into the air pump, 8” in let /out let. 2 to 4 feet dia, by ?? 4 feet high, Ό “ screen materials wet / dry vac concept,

Not eight inch floating dredge, maybe, blockages would be a worry passing the cyclonic concentrator, guessing it might work well on larger bits of gold, if no blockages,also drought eductor jet would be suitable,

Back to above pic, please note screen cover, the screen being the original exit of path for the air flow to flow,was fine hole screen now blocked with perhaps tape, or metal sleeve, I will then drill the original base as large as possible, which will then allow the air flow or vacuum to pass though the much larger hole, so the material enters the vac nozzle, proceeds to the inlet of the cyclonic chamber and and is spun around the inside of the plastic container, looses velocity and builds up in the base of the container, where it is again affected by the cyclonic action coursed by the spinning volume of vacuum and light SG materials drawn or lifted up from the swirling / spinning vacuum to and out the outlet, which is the “ adjustable metal tube extension, depth of materials maintained in the container is adjusted by the length of the metal tube, please note Number 1 in purple color, indicates some thing like a paint stirrer, to provide movement and or fluidity to the materials ( please note number 2 in yellow could be a form of elect vibration, to cause fluidity in the storage area, just out of reach of the vacuum at the tip or close to the metal tube outlet, guess ,guess, to further ensure the materials entering the container from the nozzle stay separated from the materials already passing through and in the fluid bed, I am designing a “ inner case “ ,
PLEASE NOTE , inner cone or sleeve is fitted inside pro to, held in center position, by ?? very small legs , not shown, also adj. Up and down,

1, is green line showing materials traveling around the inside the container, and falling, due to cyclonic affect,
2, is green line showing materials travel around the inside the container and fallen out side the inner cone, and continue falling until 3,
3, is where the heavies and lights are in the fluid level in the storage area, please note, mechanism to create the fluid bed is not shown,lights and heavies separate,
4, is lighter Sg materials rising and enter the hole in the base of the inner cone / sleeve,
5, is the spinning materials inside the inner cone, with a centrifugal force lifting the materials to 6,
6, is the adjustable metal tube,and mouth of exit,
7,is lighter materials traveling in a high speed spiral being sucked up, please note, mauve / purple.
8, is old original dust screen , covered and with the tube forced inside the black plastic, Adjustable,
9, is the distance the metal tube is inside or even just above the inner cone / sleeve, don’t know until testing,
10, is the height the inner cone /sleeve is above the bottom of the original plastic container, don’t know till testing,

My Line of thought is it will work , finding the correct specs for small proto will be fun,
Also lines of thought as to the size and weight of heavy metals ,that can be subject to high velocity cyclonic forces, back asap, dredger

  
auric50
22:39:29 Wed
Nov 11 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

dredger these blowers out here at the lightning ridge would be ok for sucking they do use them for dewatering claims some times , but they can lift dirt from 60ft deep and truck hour no problems (10yds)
loose wet gravel would fly up
there are odd 6 inch ones out here most are 9 inch,

flagged that claim on the mann got one in nz now
more miner friendly than oz

cheers


  
dredger
21:44:21 Thu
Nov 12 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

:smile: tooo right auric, exactly where I seen it working, ( and Cooper Pedy, ) Funny they called a blower when it is all about " sucking materials,":confused:.

Mate please think about this, bigger blower , 17 foot lift, 30 foot of hose, and very very little chance of blockage at the screen, under ?? 1/2" maybe under 1/4" screen size materials only. bigger motor, maybe twice the velocity, I am trying for :devil:, 2 1/2 yds in 2-3 seconds, but one yd would be something to work with,

Yes mate, " more miner friendly than oz " , but, form my experience , of what i was doing , most were very friendly, and when I get a chance I will post some paper work to show you, times are changed mate, 1987 , ( whats that , ??. ) 32 years ago, they full stopped us fast water dredging, change the method of operation and totally change the outcome, dredge with a excavator / s , insignificant environmental effect,

New Guys to Opal Mining please note auric is referering to 10 yds of digging tunnels to get the materials to suck up,

great to hear ya in NZ, i loved it, NZ miners are great people,

Mate, Sorry gotta run, heaps to do , phill.

Ps, is Ian Bedford still in the mines Dept, had some
great experiences with that guy, good guy too,please if you see him, say hello for me,

Phill Burridge.Dredge permit 1213 Sofala Bathurst. 1989. Sorry , can't find my opal mining course and lic Number, ( the Ridge ),1996,?, around there,

Sorry , I double copy /paste, gotta run , no time to fix, back asap.
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 04:53:01 Sat Nov 14 2009]

  
lsfog
05:34:35 Sat
Nov 14 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Dredger I appreciate your comments and recommendations. While your mini remote may be a bit out of my league the -- give your head a shake -- suggestion for just putting the vac into the ATV trailer -- OK I can work on that one. Thanks. The only issue may be the extra lift that the vac has to do. BUT hey it's worth a try -- no / low cost soloutions may = big returns --- especially in the back department.

  
tomcat_0
01:21:49 Sun
Nov 15 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Isfog,

Meaning no disrespect, but shouldn't your question be the start of a new thread?

I say this because vacuum theory is a complicated study for the application to which you are suggesting. It requires massive equipment, that so far has not been suggested or considered in this thread.

The new thread could be: the application of the principles of vacuum theory, in the separation of solids of varying specific gravities.

Dean
[1 edits; Last edit by tomcat_0 at 02:10:22 Sun Nov 15 2009]

  
lsfog
02:49:45 Sun
Nov 15 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Well that just sucks Dean --- lol
Yes for sure more science would be appreciated.
I tried a real small version in the back yard and the results were mixed at best.
While I was in the top -- very dry stuff -- everything went ok especially concidering the vac I was useing was 1/4 the strenght of the big one.
Then as I dug / sucked down the ground got moist-er.
The hose then plugged when the small fines bound up on the sides of the "nozzel" and the suction hose.
So after that test I concluded that the material had to be bone dry -- or water close to wash / flush the suction periodicly.
Again a much larger vac may change the peramiters.

  
peluk
20:47:45 Sun
Nov 15 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

"..Funny they called it a blower."
That comment caught me dredger.This past summer I was describing my plan to stand at the top of a trench in the sand.I would be sucking the material off bedrock from a height of maybe 13 feet.

The water level in the trench would have to be kept down with pumps leaving enough for bottom visibility and a lifting or transport medium.

An engineer involved in dredging was saying that it's not a problem.He said he could design a system using air that lifts very well drawing the material up in a process he called "entrainment".He said he could design a system for me and he already sells them as well as uses them.

I let him get away however.I have to stay focused on what I am doing now.He said the compressor does not have to be huge but I believe the size was still beyond my means at present.
Before I get to that,my thoughts are on stabilizing the trench walls and I keep seeing expensive trenchboxes.That would involve a large excavator to place and lift them.

  
dredger
03:16:51 Mon
Nov 16 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Hey Dean, mate, with all respect, I suggest this line of thought , Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator has many, many different sub titles or different relevant mechanisms, but they are all relevant to Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator , and prototype testing of those concepts, which will hopefully apply to any size wet / vac operation, hopefully resulting in a new methods for us all.,

unfortunately, I am extremely pressed for time, ( good news is I am nearly on top of it, ), people to who I owe e-mails please understand , asap. sorry,

Peluk,
Yes mate, allot of different names, and methods,
While I am here peluk, please let me say when I get talking to someone I respect allot, and a legend to me in his own time, I tend to try and give my best info and effort for the new guys, so please don"t think i am trying to or applying any pressure to or at you, please,

Ouch, pumping out water, I wonder if you location / method could be " drained " as you work, which is really relevant to the fall of the bedrock, remembering my river is high in the hills, ( and draining is easy for me ), but if you think about it , it is basically the height of the bed rock in front and behind the work area,, :confused:, Is the or ya creek flat, ??, can you trench all of most water off or down stream, ??.

My suggestion is still with the blower concept ( as referred to by auric for opal mining, and as he says it works wet or dry, , only at a scaled down size to suit your operation, and in the future maybe you can convert or build a " sucker bucket " to your hoe, ?. along with some good drainage practices, ?.

Also, Your hoe is a nice little machine, and with minimum $$ and effort could have another use, ok, if you can picture this , you dig you get to where you want to suck materials, the hoe is left aside, sitting idle, ya hoe is hyd, fit a extra control valve and piping to the bucket, hang on a chain from the bucket, a small hyd motor which drives a small say 3" or maybe 4" / sludge / gravel pump, ( made by your self, ( hyd drive motor off a one man hyd post hole digger should be close, and cheap,, )?? . so you dig the hole hook up the chain and lift the pump and hoses into the hole, the hoe motor run the sludge / gravel pump, materials possibly screened 2" or smaller ,your choice, ? . materials a pumped out of hole with a materials water percentage / water volume to run to suit your multiple boxes, ???.

As you say, " my thoughts are on stabilizing the trench walls and I keep seeing expensive trench boxes.That would involve a large excavator to place and lift them. ". and I agree, and suggest with practice and experience you would be a able to batter and pat pack unsafe areas where you are actually on the bedrock with unstable walls, yes extra time, but with a back filling line of thought in the method, ( moving materials as short a distance as possible, ), and hoe operating experience, you should be able to make the immediate area / bedrock safe to work, I would also suggest with good drainage practices, ( if you can apply them to your area, ) will tend to firm up the surrounding gravels, as they dry out, as the work progresses,

Also diverting the flow away or around, is part of the drainage concept, my experience is to be able to dig a relevant size trench around the work hole, and closely bypass the work hole, without that main flow draining into my work hole,
Three ways of doing this,
1. dam the flow ahead of the work hole, and pump and pipe the flow around and past the work hole, ensuring no seepage back into the hole from the rear,
2. dig a trench, as long as it takes, and line the trench with canvas in ensure no leakage into the work hole,
3, dig the trench in such a manner to cause the silt in the materials being dug, be left behind to act a seal against water seeping from the flow into the work hole,
So I start the river flow bypass trench up above the hole area, not in the flow but a back a little, I dug in a manner to cause all the rocks / gravel coming out of the trench to be washed, water will Sept into the trench from surrounding damp gravels as I dig it, and as I move back , that water level drops, please note the water is very turbid and there is very little flow, leaving almost all silt and fine gravels to settle where they are dug, trench can be 30 or 60 feet long, once the trench is dug, natural drainage will further lower the water level again, returning to the start of the trench i will choose a site a little down stream, and using rocks , stick and logs I build a dam a few feet deep, until the flow backs up and " slowly " overflows into the start of the trench, that flow should be keep slow, so it does not flush the settled silt in the trench , then increasing to full flow and running clear water, I would suggest digging a work hole next to this flow causes silt in the trench to compact and seal that flow from uncontrolled seepage, ( into the work hole, ),

Hey Isfog, thanks for your insight there, and I agree mate,
" Again a much larger vac may change the peramiters ".

Maybe it is time to consider moving up in HP and production,

I have experienced a 10 HP home made 4" , woof, lots of grunt, should handle ya sticky materials ,

Sorry guys gotta run back asap.

  
peluk
20:55:55 Mon
Nov 16 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Thanks for the thoughts dredger.I lost my lengthy response even after we discussed that posting problem.

In brief,the area is below sea level.It's a different ball game.
I'll keep you posted.

  
dredger
04:29:09 Fri
Nov 20 2009

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Sorry guys,

bad computer, back asap.

  
dredger
03:44:07 Mon
Feb 8 2010

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok, no 5 computer is working, I think,:confused:. for now,
Sorry been bussy as with life"s probs, and still am, will do what I can, asap, dredger.

  
AKWhitey
06:46:45 Mon
Feb 8 2010

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Rough drawing of manifold attached " in "contour with the back of the bucket, shown in light blue, Please note, gray hose is high pressure clean filtered water hose to manifold, which will act as ( 1) the high pressure jet, ( 2 ) low pressure clean water supply working in conjunction with " shock proof " zoom camera and light source, ( red hose ) the idea is if I feel a crevice with the bucket teeth, I locate the the bucket and settle the bucket near and on a suitable angle, knock down the excavator idle , remotely kick the processing unit into idle giving low pressure clean water, and suction that will not rip my head off, and watch the screen in front of me, I am guessing, I would see a bright light and dirty dark water, until the low pressure clean water flows pass the camera, as the clean water " displaces " the dirty water, I would see the back of the bucket first , quickly moving down the the bucket to the teeth, then a good well lite, zoomed view of the crevice, ( width of the bucket and a few feet behind the bucket, still being able to move the bucket around slowly, If I see the need i will shut down the excavator and climb down , reach under excavator steps and to get weight belt / tool belt , hooker face mask, and a good length of flexible suction hose and climb down into the muddy water in work hole, work my way over to the bucket, attach suction hose to suction manifold, find nozzle move into low pressure clean water / well lite / high diver visibility crevice area behind bucket, and clean crevice,
Please also note, this concept is very relative to my area, and river gravel beds with a possible equal percentage of fines and over screen size rocks, most probably not suitable for beach sands only, ??. although , where there is a will. there is a way,


Are you running the wiring for the camera through the front of the bucket? Would think that would wear out very fast. Where is the camera, and the wiring?
AKWhitey.

  
dredger
04:29:17 Tue
Feb 9 2010

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Are you running the wiring for the camera through the front of the bucket? Would think that would wear out very fast. Where is the camera, and the wiring?

Ok, sorry , by "front " I envisage the camera wiring would enter the bucket more or less on the top of the bucket, and out of harms way when working the bucket in rocks ect, the high pressure manifold, [ 1" TO 2" THICK PLATE ] welded to the back { outside upper outer half of the bucket }, the camera and wiring would also have or be slid inside a metal pipe inside the manifold, the metal pipe would insulate the wiring from pressure/shock, and the covered wires from the camera would run from the top of the bucket onto and up the dipper stick, ( big arm that holds bucket to boom, ) then run wire along boom to cab, Wireless is also an option,
I would like to be able to quick release suction/pressure hoses from the processing plant to the excavator as quick as poss, at times when the ecavator has to remove trees ect, that will get in the path of the operation,
I will post, back asap, with more,

  
dredger
07:00:46 Tue
Feb 9 2010

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Computer seems to be working, :confused:'

Also, the operater would be aware at all times that the camera is mounted inside the manifold, actually right up inside the manifold, and also be aware to dig with the bucket more " open ", which will direct the high high pressure jets of water " down " onto the bedrock, blowing the fines /gold forward through the bucket teeth and hopefully into the suction inside the bucket, or possably just blowing them higher up the work face, I would suggest that I would have to lower or reduce the high pressure jet to a pressure that will not blast the work face apart, but that would be adjustable,

Wireless would also allow the operater in the processing plant, 40' container on tracks, ( slew and tilt ), to see what the bedrock looks like,as the excavator operater checks for gold in crevices, ect,

Wireless/cameras could also allow the excavators operater/s to see what is happening inside the processing plant, as well as the operater/s in the processing plant, if the processing plant is not a robot, operated by the excavator operaters, wireless, from the excavator/s, :devil:,
Also please consider this line of thought , the camera, used in the processing unit, lots of them, eg , a camera mounted close to the processing plant " hopper", ( front ) is also routed via a computer , the computer is programed to see ( and react ) to the colour of gold, ( actually most of the colours of gold/Pt, ) , similar to camera/ computer USED IN sorting of freshly picked apples, which are sorted by a computer to colour, as well as size,
So the bucket ( 2 cu mtr ) drops a 3' rock in the hopper , the oversize or maybe down to 1' rocks ???. are quickly screened, and " roll in front of a camera " , of course the camera would see a 3' nugget, as well the computer is progamed to or to watch or see, specimens, or gold vains in large rocks, ( as that is the likly scenario for my area ), the confirmed target rocks would travel a further few metres to allow time for the computer to think AND ACT , and be diverted into storage areas, all other oversize rocks would be " dropped or roll out "of the processing plant in front of the tracks to back fill the hole, and provde a ramp or road for the processing plant tracks, please note , in my situation/experience the rocks are pretty well washed, as well the jet of water, and the suction will pretty much ensure very nicly washed rocks for the camera, ( in my area, ),
Bit of luck , my Senior Software Developer, and I will be nutting out the finer computer details asap, I only have to fly 1,000 miles, and drive 3,000 miles to make it happen,
It would also be my intention to screen the undersize and then pass each under more cameras, if only to show the computers, ( will save me looking ) who ( the computers ) will possably recover, or atleast keep count of the gold entering and passing out of the processing unit, asap.via a graph on a computer screen for the finer gold, ??.

  
dredger
23:48:20 Tue
Mar 2 2010

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Re: Dredging W/hydraulic Excavator,part two.

Ok,bad news, flew a thousand miles, drove a thousand, but didn't make the last 2 thousand , good news, this computer seems to be working ,unlike the last, but too much to do, will post asap. dredger,

ps, still working on rough drawing of bucket, sorry.

  

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