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dredger
01:28:28 Fri
Jul 16 2010

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Hey B,

Yes mate, thanks, the more I think about it, the better it sounds,:smile:. will do the best i can,

dredger.

  
dredger
05:20:41 Fri
Jul 23 2010

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Been thinking about it some more, airlift , so a scenario could be, I want to thoroughly wash gravel, especially i want to wash out all super fine silt, clay ,fine flaky gold / splinters of any goodies and dissolved forms of heavy metals, ( quickly ) that do or can be washed away in a ? say 4" dredge sluice, actually any sluice due to overloading ect,, ( even though in alot of cases, a very good percentage is recovered by experienced and lucky miners ), and leave say 50 micron and up ball or chunky fine gold, ect, good heavy chunky gold will stay in the wash,
((( Please note, I will also or already have a low pressure/ high volume of water rising from below , so all dirty water slit fine gold will be lifted and will flow backwards and in to screened drains catching the over flow, so the dirty water / fine slurry flows into the overflow drain, and is high pressure hydraulically / filtered , and used for 4 purposes,
1, At low pressure is slowly pumped to the blaster slots /screen, to displace dirty water , so the lights and camera, inside the blaster and screen, give good vision at bedrock level
2, to displace or wash out the the gravels being washed,
3, please note , If I am sucking 1.5 cu meters of gravels, and there must be a % of water/gravels in each suck, also 2 cu meters of over screen size gravels , which also must have or contain a % of water, ( also please note I am referring to the water volume / capacity of the processing plant only ), so I am expecting heaps of water to filter and have to discharge off the moving processing plant, ))) which I am thinking is to spray the water / filtered over the back filled rehabilitated gravels , which should be pretty washed and layed to original contours, any way, please note the blaster will also require some 1.5 cu meters of water , per excavator, per 6secs , guessing, guessing,
Please note, everything, silt, ect that is washed out of the initial ( and final ) washing process is dewatered and further processed as a wet slurry, so lots or hopefully all fine gold , and also some accuracy in separating fine and flaky gold , actually all undersized, from the oversize materials being washed, a new thought is, ( just got this one, )??. How about a fluid, and air lift concept that washes away Black Sand, or washes black sand and larger size gravels onto over size black sands “ screen “ , allowing the average black sand size to pass, and larger size quartz and lighter larger gravels to be returned to the wash plant, ??. imagine that, the final oversize cons and gold could show or prove all black sand size black sands in those over size cons, has been removed and processed in or with other concepts,
So, some scenarios on theories could be, I get a plastic pan, large, and a same size, same type plastic “ dish “, and plastic weld the dish under the plastic gold pan, then turn the pan up the right way and drill say lots of 1/64" holes in the bottom and sides of the pan, and add a air fitting in the bottom of the dish,
Two possible scenarios,
1, Standard same size plastic gold pan, I would sit on a rock on the side of a river, and wash most of the dirty water out the pan while washing the or all the gravels clean, and ready for classification or further panning off, all b/s remaining in the pan, possible loss of small % fine or dissolved heavy metals, ??.
2, Same size gold pan with hydraulic and air lift bubbles while using the previous washing a pan with some clay, method,??. would that be faster washing, ?.
3, increase air and water lift to
Would the air bubbles streaming up help the washing process, ????. and attach to dissolved forms and or not fully forms of heavy metals, as well as ultra fine dust or silt particles, snacked by air bubbles as they rise, ??.
Over, and above water being also being pumped in from below,
While thinking about that , I also think about what sizes the sucker bucket screen “slots “ , and variables that could be interesting, as to width of the slots, deck height of the slot, ,
In other words , and first point of interest, the bucket could be 5-6 foot wide or more, ( standard 30 ton excavator and manufactures specs, ) , so I need 8” dia surface area across 5-6 feet of bucket, with screen slot sizes /widths somewhere in-between ½ “ to maybe 3” wide, ???, what would the deck height of the screening slot, the math’s makes me oozy, and dizzy, so my first thought is to half the problem and make / build a 2 cu meter bucket ( with sucker bucket manifold built in ), that is 3-4 feet wide , with the same or close bucket pivot point ,from and to the bucket teeth, measurement. Or distance,
Ok, for the new guys, a 3 foot wide bucket on a 20 ton excavator, moves loose, or ripped or blasted ground well, but when the ground is hard or packed river rocks and gravels, “ time is lost “ feeling and picking around the hard ground, and then moving up to a 30 ton excavator, the bucket doubles in width,, usually , but the total weight of the excavator only increases by 10 ton,
Back asap.

  
dredger
01:33:06 Sun
Oct 17 2010

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Sorry , been real bussy, fact is i am still bussy, :confused:

Latest ideas on the size and shape of the suction screen inside the bucket are still coming,

Right now I have given considerable thought to " visual confirmation " using a vibrating feeder chute,

Please note, this concept is not a tuned recovery device, it is simply a device to give visual confirmation that the materials dug some few ( to 14 ) seconds earlier, " Do or do not " contain gold, please also note. my line of thought is there should be a vibrating feeder chute for each classification, x about 4-5 separate classifications, also please note each device will be mounted or situated behind the primary classification screens , and also have a closed circuit cameras, x 4-5, that feed visual conformation into a programed computer,that will convert and roughly quantify the amount of gold and also the screen size of gold passing from the primary classification into the secondary concentrating units,this info then can be transmitted to the operators by means of a 4-5 light panel, which would glow brighter for good gold, and not glow at all for no gold,

please also note, my focus with a concept 18 - 40 ton processing plant is to concentrate and provide surprising large amount of cons, containing hopefully surprising amounts of ultra fine gold,as well as the larger more usual catch-able gold, please consider I am hoping that the surprisingly larger amount of cons will be relative to the surprisingly high volumes of materials processed per hour,

Ok back to a sketch ,please note the chute dimensions would be or be much bigger, relative to the or which ever screen size,


please also note each screened sizes will be vigorously washed and contain no turbid /dirty water, mud, clay, light Sg fine materials, including very fine or small flat flaky gold, ect,as it passes over or along a vibrating feeder chute,

(1) back asap. testing.

:smile:
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 22:00:20 Sun Oct 17 2010]

  
dredger
00:21:33 Thu
Oct 28 2010

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Ok, lost a big one, so start it again,
And I put the numbers in the wrong place, sorry,
(3) is a hopper, which
(4 ) materials will be any of 5 different classifications, 0- 25mm/ 1”, 0-1 mm, 1-2 mm, 1-3 mm, 3-10 mm, 10-25 mm, screens,
( please note , I have some great ideas on “ revolving orga speed screening ΄ more later “, ) ,
Opps, got a few thoughts on , ?? a revolving ( orga or screw ) speed screen , ( please note, there are or will be 5 different or separate screen sizes, or 5 revolving ( orga or screw ) speed screens, ( self cleaning ) interesting possible points , are to first test, if the screen can be adjusted or tuned to give a %99.99 classification in less then or the first %25 of the length of the screen, ??. then be adjusted or tuned to give %99.99 classification using up to % 95 of the total length of the screen, ( maybe 10 -15 feet long x ?? 2 feet dia, ) resulting in good wear or long wear factors of the self cleaning revolving screen surface, HMM, and easy maintained, and easy hardfaceing to extend the life of the screen , there is also a question of “ what screen RPM would promote the best or most efficient tumble action to present under size screen sizes materials the screen “ gaps “, guessing, I would suggest 15-30 rpm for the screen , and 0- 10 orga rpm, please also note , the “ FIVE “ above shaking feeder / visual confirmation / revolving orga /screw speed screen and final fluid concentrating / process units, are focused on the “ under 0-25 mm or 1 “ size materials “ ,
Also please note, it will be my intention to wash “ off “ all silt / mud / clay, “ dirty water “ , fine flat flaky gold held in or have some tendency to be held in suspension for any seconds, maybe a lot of attached fine particles,, , and dissolved forms of all heavy metals, “ in the primary processing unit, “, MEANING there will be separate multiple processing recovery concepts/units focused on the fine materials washed off,
1,“ dirty water “ ,and dissolved forms of heavy metals, and filtered water recycling,
And 2 , “” “ all silt / mud / clay, fine flat flaky gold held in or have some tends to be held in suspension for any seconds, a lot of attached gold to fine particles ( quartz ) ,””.ect.
PLEASE ALSO NOTE, AND NOT FORGET THE OVER 1” /25MM SCREEN SIZE MATERIALS , and multiple processing concepts, still working on those concepts,

Better post, back asap, dredger.

  
dredger
05:57:50 Wed
Nov 3 2010

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Ok, lost a big one, so start it again,
And I put the numbers in the wrong place, sorry,
(3) is a hopper, which
(4 ) materials will be any one of 5 different classifications, 0- 25mm/ 1”, 0-1 mm, 1-3 mm, 3-6 mm, 6-14 mm, 14-25 mm, separate screens,
( please note , I have some great ideas on “ revolving orga speed screening ΄ ,
Opps, got a few thoughts on , ?? a revolving ( orga or screw ) speed screen , ( please note, there are or will be 5 different or separate screen sizes, or 5 revolving ( orga or screw ) speed screens, ( self cleaning ) Interesting possible points when first testing , are to first test, if the screen can be adjusted or tuned to give a %99.99 classification in less then or the first %25 of the length of the screen, ??. then be adjusted or tuned to give %99.99 classification using up to % 95 of the total length of the screen, ( maybe 10 -15 feet long x ?? 2 feet dia, ) resulting in good wear or long wearing factors of the self cleaning revolving screen “surface “, HMM, and easy maintained, and easy hard/faceing to extend the life of the screen , there is also a question of “ what screen RPM would promote the best or most efficient tumble action to present under size screen sizes materials the screen “ gaps “, guessing, I would focus 15-30 rpm for the screen , and 0- 10 orga rpm, please also note , the “ FIVE “ above shaking feeder / visual confirmation / revolving orga /screw speed screen and final fluid concept concentrating / process units, are focused on the “ under 0-25 mm or 1 “ sized materials “,

Sketches coming , asap,

Also please note, it will be my intention to wash “ off “ all silt / mud / clay, “ dirty water “ , fine flat flaky gold held in or have some tendency to be held in suspension for any seconds, maybe a lot of attached fine particles,, , and dissolved forms of all heavy metals, “ in the primary processing unit, “, MEANING there will be separate multiple processing recovery concepts/units focused on the fine materials washed off,
1,“ dirty water “ ,and dissolved forms and semi dissolved heavy metals,
And 2 , “” “ all silt / mud / clay, fine flat flaky gold held in or have some tends to be held in suspension for any seconds, a lot of attached gold to fine particles ( quartz ) ,””.ect.
Again, please note, washing off dirty water, silt, mud, clay, will mean the gravels ect being screened through each of the 5 screens will be clean washed gravels ect,
PLEASE ALSO NOTE, AND NOT FORGET THE OVER 1” /25MM SCREEN SIZE MATERIALS , and multiple processing concepts for over 1’ materials, , still working on those concepts,



:confused:



Better post, back asap, dredger.

  
dredger
21:16:45 Sun
Jan 9 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Bump, back asap.

  
dredger
08:29:00 Mon
Jan 24 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Just take a break from the above vibrating feeder chute,sorry,


Kaveman,

Sorry but the penny just dropped concerning your post,

Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator "It would take 31 meters or nearly 101 feet of 8" hose to contain one cubic meter of water/slurry ".

True but i thought I would keep the super tuff, ( and most probably super stiff ) 8" suction hose between the bucket and the wash plant about 30 to 50' long, my line thought is exactly the same concept as a " wet dry vacuum cleaner ", where if the vac'ed water storage area in vac, is say 1 gallon, I can suck 3/4 gallon of water "continuously " and the hose fills up, and dumps into the wet / dry vac water storage area and fills up to 3/4 gallon, please note, most wet dry vacs have a cyclonic affect and separate the water / materials from the vacuum, which just blows out of the fan, vac air pump, I will follow the same concept, which seems to work well on my wet /dry vacs, Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator It would take 31 meters or nearly 101 feet of 8" hose to contain one cubic meter of water/slurry.

So the scenario could be, I pull the bucket into the work face, and hit a button which throws a valve to divert the vacuum to the bucket on No 1 excavator, I hope water and mostly under 1" materials are sucked through the screen in the bucket, and up say 30' of suction hose, and into a ?? 2 cubic meter cyclonic separator, it will continue to suck until the bucket is about to break the water surface and just after, 1 and 1/2 to 2 and 1/2 seconds, then the vacuum will be diverted to the other excavator suction bucket which is being pulled into the work face, giving or having a 3 second cycle between two excavators every 6 seconds, :devil:. :smile:. sucking about 1/3 of a cu metre up the hose at any time, ??.

Please also note , it is my intention to have a very powerful vac pump,

dredger.

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
18:10:52 Mon
Jan 24 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Dredger, sounds like a neat idea. However you are mixing to different types of suction systems. The wet-dry vac is a simple example of air conveyance. With that type of system air flow is what moves the material, the more CFM moving up the hose the more slurry you can take with it. Most city sewer cleaning trucks use this type of system. They can lift bricks from over 100' deep if they have enough power. The other type is pure vacuum. That type is often seen on septic tank trucks and require a completely sealed vacuum rated tank, similar to a boiler for the slurry to deposit into. The best vacuum pumps are rated to pull about 28" of mercury. This system works great at moving liquids. However the draw back is a pure system can only lift liquid about 22'-26' vertical at sea level.

  
dredger
00:23:08 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Hey Rusty,

Thanks for bring up those points, reminds me I was not quite clear in my description of a wet / dry vac, I did forget to mention included in my ideas on " this " "or the vac pump " I intend on using is also , a vacuum pump used in Australian Opal mining, it is a dry vac,

Strangely enough Aussie opal Miners call it a blower :confused:.

They use a 4-5' dia impeller / "fan " housing with a 100 -200 HP diesel engine,and I intended on using about 7-8' dia air pump / blower and at least 350 Hp, to produce extreme line velocity, I am not sure how much I will be able to suck in such a short time, but I really want the maximum line velocity and Torque, ( if Torque is the right word, ?? ), you know "grunt ", if it pulls 1/2 cu meter in 2 secs ?? maybe 3 secs, it will be a useful tool. if it pulls or sucks 1 and 1/2 cu meters in three secs, I will be very happy,

I also have ideas on a very quick hitch concept for the suction hose and high pressure blaster hose line, where it attaches to the bucket,( and stretches up to the wash plant, ) so that I can very quickly disconnect and connect it, I am looking for is the fastest quick hitch ever, meaning or involving 2 concepts, No 1, being when the excavators are working a 6 sec cycle, the distance between bedrock and the top of the hopper , in the full production mode, sequence, the hopper will be continually presented to the bucket by the mobile wash plant, deep in the hole, while in full production or digging mode, the bucket will travel the shortest possible distance in the shortest possible time, maybe 3-4 meters, with perhaps only a few inches clearance,between bucket and hopper, the cyclonic separator would be very close to the hopper, so I am hoping to the suction hose will end up being as short as 3-4 meters, well that's the plan anyway, it is also the idea that the hopper will reach down into the hole, and maintain a few meters from or height to bedrock,

No2 , is the fact that continuous 6 sec cycles will not happen for any more then a few minutes, I am hopeful for lots of minutes before the operator has to disengage the quick hitch ,and reach or push a large rock or log,ect further away that is not intended to go in the hopper,but rather cleaned and placed / stacked / pushed on the other side or back of the work face, and be the base on bedrock level for back filling the work hole,

So, My line of thought is build a "electro- magnetic " quick hitch, for the suction hose /high pressure hose, between bucket and the wash plant, the E/M quick hitch could be mounted a feet above the bucket, and mounted to the dipper, a few feet above the bucket, with a flexible coupling to the bucket, the end or the bucket end of the suction / pressure hose would be attached to retractable cables, please note this is the other half or part of the E/M quick hitch and remain suspended near to the the hopper, as the operator returns from pushing or moving bigger rocks to the work face, he quickly presents the two half very briefly, and the electro magnet will place and lock in both half's, this should happen while or as the excavator arm passes and not have to stop or slow down much to attach the above hitch ,Practice makes perfect, and electro - magnets work in split seconds,

With a little luck, I will be able to back it off the vac pump enough to get a fair suction and fuel economy, and production, we shall see,

Ok, considering I purchased a 40' shipping container yesterday, cheap too, pics coming but the camera NOT WORKING,yet, so they will have to wait, however I am thinking about how to set up a mobile wash plant,using 20 -30 -40 shipping containers, and where the advantages and disadvantages may be theorized,

back asap,
Ps,
Hey Rusty, what do you think, please.

, :smile:

  
dredger
01:58:59 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

So the idea is crazy, but lets look at it anyway,

One of the things i like about a Mobile set up is it is meant to be moved easerly and quickly from site to site, and test hole to test hole,

So,


testing,

  
dredger
02:22:50 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Arriving on site, 2 x 20-30-40' shipping containers, please note the containers are in blue, the red lines on top of the containers are heavy bracing and supports,disassembled and packed on top of each container for transport, the thick light blue line is weather proof walls that fold out and assemble as weather proof control and work areas, maintance area,ect, ,

Option No 1,
.


  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
02:36:36 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Excavators and wash plants are out of my comfort zone. I do have a 30 year background in the use of fan and PD blower vacuum work. You will need to do a lot of study on just how the opal mine blowers work compared to your idea. Basically a positive displacement or PD blower is about the same as the superchargers used on drag cars and older diesel trucks. They are the middle ground between high CFM fan units that are normally used for dry suction and the low CFM high vacuum rotary vane style used on septic units for liquid pumping. The high end PD blowers can approach a pure vacuum rating and still move high CFM but they are very expensive and require extensive safety systems on them to prevent any dirty air or God forbid water from entering the compressor chamber.Their tolerances are so close and they spin so fast that even small amounts of debris can cause catastrophic damage.Here is a web link to the largest supplier of blowers. http://www.dresserroots.com/

  
dredger
07:19:53 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Ok Rusty, thanks for the heads up and i will do further investigation,

Better to get some good help here , before I waste money Aye, ??.

I understand the PD ROOTS TYPE concept, and agree is basically out of the question, but I still like the Australian Opal blower fan, cause of the much shorter suction hose, along with say 3 cyclonic separators before the fan bladed pump,??,i would expect some condensation to reach the pump.

Anymore thoughts please Rusty,

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
18:54:39 Tue
Jan 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Fan type units in use here in the states remind me of multi-stage squirrel cage fans used for furnace blowers. Here is the top name in the 3 stage fan cleaner units.http://www.vac-con.com/ There are larger units and units with more stages that have been made. I just can't find a link right now. The 3 stage fans move around 8000 CFM and pull around 10" of mercury up an 8" hose. I have several thousand hours on this brand of equipment. I don't believe it will do what you envision. The problem is you are sucking a submerged slurry. Fan type units really need air flow to move the material. Since you are using a submerged hose you are going to be better off with a giant rotary vane pump or PD system. However both will have a limit of how high they will lift without air injection.
[1 edits; Last edit by RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM at 18:56:24 Tue Jan 25 2011]

  
dredger
01:01:28 Fri
Jan 28 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Thanks Rusty.

You say, " The problem is you are sucking a submerged slurry ".

yes, I think the bucket will be submerged, and a short distance up the dipper, say to be safe 2-3 meters submerged, , do you think would kill of make that big a difference,??.

I also hear what you are saying here, "Fan type units really need air flow to move the material " . .and agree and suggest watching the / a suction and water/ materials traveling along my suction hose is less velocity and gives a more visible confirmation that materials basically only move along the bottom of the hose, so as you say , alot of air flow is required to carry a tube of slurry.,
, But I did want to really the fan much faster then ?? what is the usual for all other purposes, and have a rather large " fly wheel weight " inline with the fan as well. I also have seen how slow the opal blower had to be feed, but was thinking it was slow because we could not dig so fast,

Also this could backfire and if i did get enough suction to pull a cu - meter, that high velocity might just block the screen, by pulling bigger rocks onto the screen , I was thinking as the bucket crowds or fills, larger rocks would be forced across the screen and keep screen clear, ??.

Another point of interest here is I very much appreciate your help, so please note, I have another ?? concept .different from the fan type concept, if the fan concept fails, I was going to plumb into the high pressure water blaster, system, similar to a nozzle jet for a 8" dredge suction nozzle, a sort of a blast and suck concept, :devil:, and if my bucket sucker idea does not work I can still fall back on a excavator being able to deliver a cu - meter in seconds, and two excavators delivering a cu -meter in

Any way Rusty , thanks for the help, and I would appreciate any other comments please, it all boils down to me not wasting money,

Back asap. dredger.



More wild ideas on a mobile wash plank coming asap,

  
ME
18:33:23 Fri
Jan 28 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Any way Rusty , thanks for the help, and I would appreciate any other comments please, it all boils down to me not wasting money,

Who are you kidding Phil? We all know you Aussies are made of $$$ haha. Good to see your still exercising your brain. I'm thinking of jumping back into the pool this season albeit the shallow end since I can't just break off a finger and buy a new dredge. Take care, Mark

  
dredger
01:33:40 Sat
Jan 29 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

MARK, what a great surprise, :smile:. how ya been, :welcome: back,

Great to hear ya getting back in the water, you better do it right this time, and actually catch some gold, :devil:.Haha.

Mate, I hope ya gonna keep coming back to the forum and keep posting, you know you enjoyed the fun before,

And I wanner get you back for that " Who are you kidding Phil? We all know you Aussies are made of $$$ haha, CRACK,HAHA, pm ya soon.

aNYWAY FLAT OUT FOR TIME, SO BACK ON SUBJECT,

Rusty, mate , sorry, i have a reply to ya post I have not quit finished, just gotta check it , I will post asap, thanks again for ya help.

Just wanted to quickly show a few more ideas / /sketches on mounting shipping containers on a mobile base, or large excavator undercarriage,

I like this idea better, because over all side mounting, 40 foot containers x 2 will allow me more floor space, and upper deck space,

And the chance to build a fairly strong base for mounting or side mounting 2 containers, the same size as a 40' container, so that the about 3 x 40' containers, say 8' x 3 = 24' wide x 40' long, 14 to 16' wide track base, 4' -5' over hang, on each side, ?? . I would suggest it could would be very stable for moving around considering the would be 1-2 x 30+ ton excavators to even the ground where would travel to access each test hole, and rehab where required,



So, we arrive on site with two containers and the center unit mounted on tracks, also already carrying a container size portion of the wash plant, ( basically all the heavy pre- wash and classification heavy machinery/ motors, ect,ect, ) this will keep the bulk of the weight in the center container area, over the undercarriage,

Please note , the total or moving / mobile weight of the complete wash plant will be much lower when it is not loaded and actually washing dirt, I am guessing assembled wash plant weight around 35 ton, I would suggest at 35 ton, the wash plant would be very stable and able to move from assembly point to and for many miles,

However, when the wash plant is processing, and full of water and gravel, the weight will increase, ??. I am guessing when i suggest, the wash plant will perhaps hold about 20 cu-meters of rocks and slurry, ( point of interest here is it would be my intention that the filtration system would or will work very quickly under high pressure, and the dirty water filtration and " heavy metal recovery concepts " will hold as little water as possible, and as little excess weight as possible , meaning the 20 cu-meters could be or weigh up to a scary total weight, but, considering the larger track base, and the intention that the wash plant will lay or drop it's own washed gravel base to track over,at and from bedrock level, from experience I would suggest laying the base gravels for the wash plant would result in a very stable machine, and safely carry heavy wash plants, blar,blar. ,

My line of thought would be to use a 45- 65 ton excavator track base,
'

Ps, new guys please note, working in a water way or river can flash flood, in my experience I have around 12 minutes to clear my work site before a flood washes most away, so it will be my intention to while the wash plant lays the gravels to track over , it will also back fill the hole in original contours, as well as leaving a "ramp " for the wash plant to reverse out in times of floods,
testing.

  
dredger
01:36:08 Sun
Jan 30 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Top view shows No1 as a area, where the primy wash and classification is intended,

No 2 would be motors pumps ect, all the main weight in the center , ?? pod, ?? over track base,.with both 40' containers attached, 960 sq feet floor space, lower deck, ,

No 3 and side view shows " upper deck " weather proof, area for final clean up. ect,

Please note, the red lines indicate,



Also please note, the upper decks will slew, or rotate, on the track base, and will also tilt, front to back ,

back asap.

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
17:42:07 Mon
Jan 31 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Dredger have you looked at the thread "NZ mining"? I think picture #40 may show one of your opal blower units. That unit is a single stage centrifugal fan. The link I gave you to Vac-Con shows 2 and 3 stage units. Their parent company made 6 and 8 stage units. Normally each stage increases the suction power. However that type of suction system loves air, the more air in the suction pipe the better the material moves. No air like in a submerged suction will limit the lift to whatever inches of mercury your unit can pull. With a maximum lift height at sea level of about 22'for a full vac rated unit.

  
dredger
07:20:01 Tue
Feb 1 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Thanks Rusty,

Funny ,opal mining on NZ dredging thread,:smile:, why not,

NZ excavator dredging, been there done that, don't know why I left,

I hear you and am trying to do a few sketches,

Thanks again, back asap. dredger.

  
dredger
01:30:21 Wed
Feb 9 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Hey Rusty,

Been thinking about it and ya right, the dry /wet vacume may only work enough to be a pain,



1, being a " inline air pump " I was thinking of building both the opal miners and the inline pump to see which would work the best, interchangeable . ??.

2, is some materials being sucked up useing the opal miners pump,

3, could be my larger modified home made air pump, slightly more vac and materials,

4, is you are right , i can not be sure I will get the grunt to vac a tube of wet slurry, so I will add an educator jet concept too to lift , considering the force the jet of water will have,

5, A large hyd ram, ( boom ram off a 65 tonner ).


6, a 1 and 1/2 cu meter piston cylinder with the hyd-ram forcing water at extreme pressure to ,

7, a eductor " type concept " jet built into bucket screen/nozzle , ?????. which should be well submerged, when the ram forces water to the jet, ??. the orifice could be around 3", with a 3" line with that much pressure ??, trick would be timing the high velocity air vac with the high pressure jet, ??. it has to work, with the added bonus of leaving the vac on in the hose longer then the high pressure jet , leaving the vac to ensure the line is keep clear and clean, between each cycle ready for the next cu-meter gulp of undersized or screened slurry, ??.



Another mad idea i had, was actually a compromise, arrrm , :smile:


I have struggled with a excavator about 35 ton, and the single mindedness that the bucket should be only 1 meter wide, with a 2 cu meter capacity,

35 ton machine in my mind is as big and fast enough with a 3 cu meter lifting capacity, and really swing it about,

So I am suggesting my line of thought is a 35 ton excavator could have a 3 cu-meter capacity and a 1 and 1/2 meter wide mouth, or width, please note the larger machine sits very stable while ripping through a work face in my river gravels situation ,

And 20-25 ton excavator could have a 2 cu-meter capacity and be 1 meter wide, is capable , it is a little more unstable which the operator should adapt , and have some fun, :confused:

Back asap, thanks Rusty, what do you think, please,

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
03:08:16 Wed
Feb 9 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Most any of the ideas will work to move material. The question is is it feasible. The rotary vane pumps and the PD blowers can suck as close to pure vacuum as you can get. The problem is that is only good enough to move a solid column of water about 22' vertical at sea level. To increase the velocity and the lift height air induction at the nozzle end works well. A high CFM low PSI compressor works best. You may have seen this principal used with treasure divers recovering gold from shallow wrecks in the ocean. As the air bubbles rise up the tube they expand and lift anything in their path also bringing cooling air to your suction units. However the big problem as I see it is the shear size and complexity of your set up. It is fast approaching a full time job for a large crew.

  
overtheedge
06:17:47 Wed
Feb 9 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

For the most part, you all are thinking outside my knowledge base. A couple thoughts though.

Air-lift pumps don't start to shine until water depth hits 30-35' or so.

Hydraulic elevators work from 0' to over 100'.

So a thought is hydraulic elevators shielded by guards under the bucket. After all, hydraulic elevators are just reconfigured suction nozzles. If you need more boost, use inline jets. Except for the pivots on the boom, all the slurry could be in pipe with hose at the pivots. Put the jets in the fixed pipe.

Keep in mind that the quantity and pressure of the injected water (6&7) is limitted by the GPM of the hydraulic pump. The question becomes one of complexity and risk. Using an inline jet with water is straight forward and no risk of hydraulic fluid escaping into the environment. Keep in mind that the cylinder pumping the water is cyclic. Boost- nothing - boost - well you get the idea. Why not just use a high pressure water pump for the inline booster jet?

Ask yourself this, "Are the potential hassles and expenses of a possible environmental clean-up worth the additional use of petro-based hydraulics for boosting the material to the sluice when water is so easy to use as the medium?"

Now consider the fabrication costs. Hydraulic pump v high pressure fire-fighting water pump. 3000 psi @ 50 gpm v 125 psi @ 150 gpm are close to the same price. Hoses? Fluid? EPA? Cycling of your system v continuous boost?

Just my best guess. Do whatcha gonna do.

  
dredger
03:21:59 Thu
Feb 10 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Wow this is great, guys, thanks for thoughts, I have read them a few times, and i think I need some ram specs, and hyd pump specs, which I do not think i can find, :confused:., I think the hyd pump I have is a gold cup series, around a 100gpm and I think around 5000 psi,chatter box ect, ?? requires around 350 HP +, AUD $32,000 should be plenty to fast forward ( and reverse ) a big ram, and in turn force a piston into a cylinda, No 5 and 6, spit out 1 and 1/2 cu meters of water in a few seconds,

two things that sticks here is,

Overtheedge you say " Keep in mind that the cylinder pumping the water is cyclic. Boost- nothing - boost -",

I was thinking it is boost or rather compression, then on the return cycle is the suction, to refill the cylinder with water, No 6, ready for the next compression,please note, I need the suction cycle to suck basically dirty water though a or several, " self cleaning or clearing filters ", please note, there will be many, ?? or as many as required no 5 and no 6 units,( hyd ram and water compression and water suction piston and cylinders ),?? Maybe six - 9 in all, many electric/hyd valves to control hyd ram speed and distance which it travels, , and some serious thought about compression/suction cycles, a few seconds each within a 6 second pass, which is a 6 second cycle ?? So I am suggesting the massive engine, massive hyd pump, and hyd ram,annd water piston / cylinder. along with a "hydraulic elevators are just reconfigured suction nozzles ", built in the bucket,as you say, ( I like that, deliver after testing various Jet orifaces about 3/4 and or perhaps more then a cu-meter of "extremely " high pressure filtered water into the jet, over say 2 and 1/2 seconds,
2 points of my interest here, blar, blar,
1, I will bet money that considering the bucket will be submerged, the bucket position or angle, will mean the hose after the jet will be straight, and stretched stiff and straight, ( I also like your suggestion ) on inline jet, I will do that, above the hose coupling, and have one jet in the bucket, and another inline, maybe half way up the hose, I like it, with another my ram piston cylinder compressed high pressure concept,delayed a split second, very good,


So 2, that is 3/4 cu meter clean water, and how much slurry, ?? , and how much water can or will be sucked into a excavator bucket that is full of gravel in order to wash /suck all or most under screen size , I really want at lest a meter of under screen size b/s and anything under say 1" or perhaps under 3/4" , please note, both the under size sucked up and the oversize up to anything that fits in the excavator bucket are both then feed together into the primary washing / classification, hydraulic elevators are just reconfigured suction nozzles,

And , Rusty , you say " It is fast approaching a full time job for a large crew. ", no mate, one man excavator, one man wash plant operator, and one man wash plant tender, who will remove the concentrates, refuel, and rotate with the other 2 operators, please note my line of thought is the wash plant carry as little concentrates or b/s as possible to allow more room and less weight in and on the wash plant, please also note when I refer to a mobile wash plant, I really mean a bulk concentrator, which i hope will supply me with bulk high grade concentrates, which will basically be trucked out 3-4 times a day, nice small truck, ok I am dreaming the tender truck backs over the level rehabed river gravel, and attaches to the wash plant using a tow ball hitch , the truck is then .

Oops sorry gotta run , back asap.

Thanks guys,:smile:

  
dredger
22:28:42 Thu
Feb 24 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

and attaches to the wash plant using a tow ball hitch , the truck is then .

Pulled along with the mobile ( slowly moving, ) wash plant, the truck would be fitted with a hi-ab ( truck hyd crane arm, ) with a 44 drum clamp, and load empty concentrate drums onto the wash plant, and or load fuel drums as required to keep the wash plant and excavators running, with a emphases on having a few hours fuel on the or weight of fuel on the wash plant, again please note this concept is a wash plant and bulk concentrator, meaning the tender truck would be continuously removing 44 gallon drum size containers of concentrates,from the wash plant, with the emphasis again on keeping the weight of the concentrates off the wash plant, asap, please note, that is my intention to be ready a lot of concentrates, 2 reasons being, if , I can dig and suck say 3 cu-meters per 6 second cycle, x 2 excavators, that could be around a cu-meter per second, yes, I know there will be reasons why I will not be able to maintain continuous cycle after cycle for long periods, " big rocks ", dead buried trees, cleaning crevices at and on bedrock. ect,ect, but , if I am able to maintain short bursts, over a 10 hour shift, a scenario could be both excavators dig and suck 3 cu meters each or x 2 excavators for 1 minute, wow, ( I am worried too, ) 60 cu-meters, straight, one after the other, about a second apart, Ouch,

Assuming the wash plant is or has a + or - 20 cu-meter slurry capacity larger rocks, as well as a 20 cu-meter dirty and clean water capacity, 20-25 ton wash plant and under carriage track base, weight , 60-65 ton loaded all up, I might have about 20 seconds to concentrate each cu - meter, to how much concentrate,????. to retain all the gold in that concentrate,and not wash or loose any gold out of that concentrate in the wash plant, by "any" I mean 99.9% gold retained in the cons, meaning a lot of " extra " cons, perhaps starting recovery of con cons at 1 ton per hour, maybe 5 ton of great cons per hour " recovered ", ??. nothing larger then a few inches, separate 44 drums marked (1). few inches cons, (2). one inch cons, (3), 1" - 1/2" cons, (4), 1/2 -1/8'cons, (5)1/8- 0" cons,(6) Heavy Sg dirty water residue and iron heavy Sg residue cons, ?? heavy Sg sludge.

So with some practice I will have to be ready for alot of cons,in short bursts, the tender truck will remove the cons drums to a short distance and stock pile, , where they will be transported to a local secure location for final processing,

Point of interest here is the drums will be sealed before leaving the wash plant,

More on that asap,

Another reason for drums is, sorry gotta put this here to remind me for next post,



:smile:

  
dredger
23:19:17 Wed
Mar 16 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Back asap. for sure.

  
cmoelcmoecom
02:15:48 Fri
Mar 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

kaveman
got access to ca. claim for rec. mining.
how much is too much to qualify for recreational
operation?
cmoe

  
kaveman
22:00:30 Fri
Mar 25 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Sorry, I don't know anything about recreational mining nor do I accept that such a thing exists. You're either mining or you're not mining IMHO.

  
cmoelcmoecom
22:40:10 Sat
Mar 26 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

point well taken.
cmoe

  
dredger
01:52:23 Sun
Apr 10 2011

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Re: Dredging w/Hydraulic Excavator

Drums of cons will be sealed and transported for further processing,

Ok, Just a few suggestions and pics on my back –up recovery concept for “ dredging with 2 excavators “ this is a small prototype concentrator , the line of thought is having several different recovery systems build ready to be changed over if the first concept fails, this is my line of thought , ,
Please note some points of interest,

1, this is a concept that is still in manufacture stage , absolutely no actually testing has been carried out, the line of thought is “ if the concept “, works, it can be duplicated to big enough cope with high production,
2. I would expect some very fine silt be caught in the lower storage areas, meaning I would expect a dirty concentrate in the bucket,
3, the concept is suggested and hoped to improve on the Popandson mat and mesh concepts by improving or hope fully improving gold storage capacity, of above concepts, New guys please note , I would suggest the easiest way of setting up ya first river or what ever sluice is to consult the Popandson guidelines, it is a tried and proven , with easy to follow guidelines.
4, further suggested that the “increasing the gold storage areas “ in small concentrators up to ?? 8” suction dredge, regardless of what ever mesh and matting you are using, perhaps even with riffles that use mating for gold storage, could should increase gold recovery as well as time in-between clean out,
5, this mechanism, has several different possibilities, or capabilities,
A, to increase gold storage areas at will , quickly and easily , GRADUALLY , increasing gold recovery, and time between clean outs, the scenario could be working a small high banker, and every ??? 20 minutes, you increase the volume of storage area matting to drop the heavies already caught in the matting, deeper into the matting. And present more open storage area,
B, is the line of thought that suggest if it is possible to increase the storage area at will it may be possible to decrease the storage as well, so creating a situation where the matting in constantly live, and moving, on a very miniature scale, the line of thought here is the moving matting gold storage area will keep it and the cons moving as well,perhaps nearly fluid. with in and below the live sorting area caused by the or a vortex , hopefully creating a situation where the matting is live, and causing heavies to settle deeper into live matting, and “ lift lighter Sg cons back up through ( displace )in the matting to the live crescent under the vortex, and be rejected, constantly,
C, as a result of compression and de-compression of the matting, I would suggest an added bonus here is “ displacement of water “, so the matting is physically live and massaging gently the mating which is just sorting by Sg the cons with -in the matting, , and the matting is also subject to an adjustable “ lift and drop “ “ blow and suck “ water displacement from below, ( how and why with pics following ),





the above pics show small sponge with fine scorer material similar to stiff / hard miners moss, and patches of backed miners moss materials that i have removed the backing,

Other pic show small squares of different grades of expanded alloy mesh as well as perforated or punched sheet, the idea being , having as many variations of mesh and matting for testing, and fine tuning,.

testing ,


  

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