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traveller11
16:53:20 Mon
Dec 28 2009

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sodium sulfate

I was reading the Wikipedia site article on the compound sodium sulfate (Na2SO4) and came across this little tidbit at the end of the article. As to the danger of handling sodium sulfate; it was used as a general purpose laxative until other laxatives became available in the early 1900's.
Here goes:

Lately, sodium sulfate has been found effective in dissolving very finely electroplated micrometre gold that is found in gold electroplated hardware on electronic products such as pins, and other connectors and switches. It is safer and cheaper than other reagents used for gold recovery, with little concern for adverse reactions or health effects.

Anyone have any knowledge of this process? Think "micrometre" gold might relate to fine gold recovery ???
Bob

  
blacksands_man
03:49:01 Tue
Dec 29 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate

Here's a simple addition & more info., Ozone helps the process as shown in this patent...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3764650.pdf

A ultrasonic source should speed up leach times to ~1/10 the time needed as well as increase yields. A ~1.5 gallon Rubbermaid flex & seal plastic tank found at walmart that sits in the ultrasonic unit http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95563 from harbor freight , can be rigged up with a flow thru plumbing to a 5 gal. container that has a ozone/air bubbler
http://cgi.ebay.com/ENALY-Ozone-Generator-Water-purifer-OZX-300U-Air-Dryer_W0QQitemZ110408590841QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item19b4dd65f9
in it to keep milled ore suspended & where a pond pump keeps the it flowing to ultrasonic unit & back to 5gal container.

I just love powerful simplicity & cheap to!

blacksands man
:gonetoofar:
[1 edits; Last edit by blacksands_man at 17:53:18 Tue Dec 29 2009]

  
baub
23:15:24 Tue
Dec 29 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate

Wow ! Wonder if it would be a good idea to keep metalllic pump parts from disappearing into solution by using plastic pumps or maybe lab grade pumps without metal parts ?

b

  
baub
18:23:19 Wed
Dec 30 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate

More thoughts.

Geo, you mention roasting, could you clarify ?

A test.

Sustitute hdrogen peroxide for water. More oxy for the reaction.
Find the right size plastic container to do this in.
Add 10 percent salt and the H2O2 along with perhaps a quarter container of ore and put it in a gem tumbler for few hours.
If it starts leaking or smoking,unplug and rethink. Leaking might be cured with a very small hole in the end of the container lid. Use less material or remove some this time. Just enough to reduce the pressure . Smoking ? Cool mebbe ? Use glasses, gloves to move it after you've shut it off and allowed it to cool.
Decant and filter this liquid.
Precip via Geos method (s).
Buy model Ferrari.
Send results to AK Forum.

One thing to note : Salt has been used in the making of bombs. Do not put 50 lbs of salt in a container and drop on something or someone causing bodily harm or property loss. This could result in our justifiably being denied the use of salt in the future.

TYVM,

b

  
blacksands_man
20:16:47 Wed
Dec 30 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate


  
baub
21:57:21 Wed
Dec 30 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate

Geo,

Thanks for the explanation, I was confused by the saline solution and couldn't understand the need for the wetting then roasting.

Blacksands Man,

Thanks for the list. Nice selection of price , type and capacity.

Geo etal :

Would the test I proposed in the earlier part of this thread work, or am I missing something critical ?

b

  
Dan_Wasson
04:42:32 Thu
Dec 31 2009

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Re: sodium sulfate

The weaker (generally 3%) hydrogen peroxide is actually a good choice. The water which is pure, gives a base which to form the solution and is needed to form gold or silver chloride. I have 50% peroxide on hand and very seldom use it at that strength. Slow, controled consistent chemical reaction is what you are shooting for. To high of concentrations can make for some very violent reactions. As well, pasivation is a potential issue when using strong/high % chemicals

  
traveller11
22:57:31 Sat
Jan 2 2010

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Re: sodium sulfate

Blacksands Man,
Very interesting patent. Do you know if anyone has tried it yet and if the inventor's claims are true?
I was looking at the ozone generator on the e-bay site you posted. Although the pump itself puts out 2-3 liters/minute, the actual ozone output is only 200 mg/hour at what appears to be a maximum concentration of 3.0 mg/liter. The conversion from metric is 200 mg = .00044 lbs. I wonder what concentration of ozone would be required for this process?
Bob

  
blacksands_man
08:05:45 Sun
Jan 3 2010

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Re: sodium sulfate

True, the more I looked at the patent & the output of the ozone generator the more i looked for a higher output one.

The patent calls for 20-40lbs O3 per ton of ore or if we go by the water quantity example 4000lbs of water (twice the weight of ore = water weight) - so we would have a 1/2% to 1% by weight concentration of ozone verses H2O weight according to the patent.

Here is a more suited generator =
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160390805663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
puts out 3700mg = 3.7grams /hr ozone (degrading not considered in example).

for 1/2% O3 concentration = 3.7g O3 x 200 =
740g H20 can be added /2 = 370g of ore x 10% = 37g NaCl to add (salt).

for 1% O3 concentration = 3.7g O3 x 100 =
370g H20 can be added /2 = 185g of ore x 10% = 18.5g NaCl to add

Did some O3 research, O3 has a short life but can be increased buy low pH, temperature, different fluids stored in ect.

http://www.lenntech.com/library/ozone/decomposition/ozone-decomposition.htm

Also if you didn't have the O3 concentration you could just run the leach times longer with the O3 generator running away for days???? Chime in anyone out there with more experience .

Here's a supplier of all sized O3 generators...

http://www.ozonesupplies.com/index.php

& from there site O3 info....

http://www.ozonesupplies.com/Ozone_Info.html

One remedy I thought of is to see how much H2SO4 is used to bring your liquid water-salt-ore to a pH of 1 or better yet 0.5 since it will work its way up, the pH, in the course of the leach.

With H2SO4 in the coldest freezer (outdoors in winter AK:> ) you can find with cooled O3 lines to it that bubble into the acid your O3 Then super saturate the acid over the course say a few days/week. then you syringe the volume of acid out to your waiting ore-salt-water O3 bubbled -
room temp.solution sitting in the ultrasonic unit since the o3 will be short lived you want the leach to work fast & the ultrasonic unit cuts leach times ~1/10. So there's a possible solution to a low priced / volume unit you can buy & to "charge up" the acid w/O3 before it is used.

Here's a O3 lifetime at various temps...

http://www.ozonesupplies.com/Ozone_Properties.html



Blacksands man:gonetoofar:
[8 edits; Last edit by blacksands_man at 22:23:55 Sun Jan 3 2010]

  
traveller11
09:38:39 Sun
Jan 3 2010

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Re: sodium sulfate

Blacksands Man,
Also, you've only gone from $39 to $51 for an increase from 200 mg/hr to 3700 mg/hr; a gain of 1850% for a mere $12 LOL. If we invested $150 in the ozone generator, who knows how much the output would be?
It would be nice if we had some pet scientists in a lab somewhere to test these processes for us.
Bob

  

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