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eightymesh
20:34:30 Sat
Sep 5 2009

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Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

i picked up the link from gold dredger .com


http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16202

  
billcosta_rica
23:22:26 Sat
Sep 5 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

GREAT, REALLY THAT WAS GREAT.

bill-cr

  
Steve_Herschbach
00:07:07 Sun
Sep 6 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hi,

I made a couple posts over at The New 49ers related to the subject.

The bill seems ripe for a lawsuit. Banning dredging on streams without fish to protect fish simply can't fly. The most they could justify would be closures in particularly sensitive areas. Mining claims are property, and this is a taking of property.

But I'm somewhat amazed that people in California all seem to be waiting for somebody else to do something. If you tried to ban dredging on all creeks in Alaska because of a perceived threat in a couple of locations there would be hell to pay. I'm pissed off and I'm not even in California.

I guess people are just more laid back in California.

Steve Herschbach

  
keninla
01:21:35 Sun
Sep 6 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Quote: Steve_Herschbach at 00:07:07 Sun Sep 6 2009

Hi,


But I'm somewhat amazed that people in California all seem to be waiting for somebody else to do something. If you tried to ban dredging on all creeks in Alaska because of a perceived threat in a couple of locations there would be hell to pay. I'm pissed off and I'm not even in California.

I guess people are just more laid back in California.

Steve Herschbach


No Steve there are some very angry miners in Calif. that are trying to do something about this.

PLP is in the process of filing suit as well as New 49ers.

Ken

  
Steve_Herschbach
04:06:01 Sun
Sep 6 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hi Ken,

That is just what I'm talking about. PLP and New 49ers. I made a substantial donation to help out, much more than many miners in California, and I don't even have a pony in the race. Where is the independent claim owner that just steps up and does it? Surely there is one claim owner in California that can afford to hire an attorney?

Steve Herschbach

  
dredgeguy
18:19:49 Sun
Sep 6 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hello Steve

I am in Kalif. and dredge on our claims. So far as we can tell the only places they have actually stopped people are in the pay to play areas on state land.

We have been dredging actively ( somewhat remote claim) and have not even seen an official in weeks.
The DFG seems to avoid us now.

So the actual taking hasn't occured yet.
Some claim owners complied of their own accord and then whine instead of standing up. :confused:

If and when they actively TRY to stop us we will be in court.

If Claim Owners and Citizens voluntarily give up their rights then they will lose their rights, but until the right is challenged, we can't go to court.

Every miner in Kalif is NOT HAPPY with the current situation. It seems that our elected officials will not listen to the people.

Hope this helps.

  
tomcat_0
19:33:02 Mon
Sep 7 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Quote: Steve_Herschbach at 00:07:07 Sun Sep 6 2009

Hi,

I made a couple posts over at The New 49ers related to the subject.

The bill seems ripe for a lawsuit. Banning dredging on streams without fish to protect fish simply can't fly. The most they could justify would be closures in particularly sensitive areas. Mining claims are property, and this is a taking of property.

But I'm somewhat amazed that people in California all seem to be waiting for somebody else to do something. If you tried to ban dredging on all creeks in Alaska because of a perceived threat in a couple of locations there would be hell to pay. I'm pissed off and I'm not even in California.

I guess people are just more laid back in California.

Steve Herschbach



Steve,

I don't know where you are getting your information about individual Calif. miners not participating in the effort to defeat the ban on dredging. I think maybe you should compare the size of the mining communities in Alaska and in California, then compare their net incomes.

It is very commendable that you took an interest in our fight and donated to the cause-I did too. I mine on open land...I have no mineral claim...I live in CA...I gross under $40,000 a year...So far between the new49ers and the PLP, I have donated in the realm of $500.00 to the legal fund in this particular battle.

As I see it, it's no wonder the Alaskan Miners can afford big guns in their battles. However, it's the case law made down here that may cause Alaskan miners to lose in the future.

Dean

  
LipCa
20:57:30 Mon
Sep 7 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Tomcat,

If you read Steve's posts, he was wondering why no individual miner HAS FILED SUIT YET.

I don't think he said anywhere that no individual miners have participated......he knows they contribute to the legal fees.

  
Steve_Herschbach
22:35:20 Mon
Sep 7 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hi,

I never said people in Califonia are not contributing. And I understand lots of people do not have the income to get an attorney. Remember though there are more people in a medium city in California than there are in all of Alaska. And out of all those people there is not one individual with a dredging claim that has the money to get an attorney?

The idea of simply breaking the law by dredging anyway results in no taking is an interesting one.

Steve Herschbach

  
goldprospectortramp
01:00:42 Tue
Sep 8 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

I found this info the other nite looking around mining sites...and i can see alot of miners filing suit for not being justly compensated..oops.. looks like the greenies bit off more than they can chew..

The California Constitution provides, "Private property may be taken or damaged for public use only when just compensation ... has first been paid to, or into court for, the owner." (Cal. Const., art. I, 19.)
-------

http://www.icmj.com/news-detail.php?id=38&keywords=Governor_Schwarzenegger_Signs_SB_670_to_Temporarily_Halt_Suction_Dredging_in_California

IMCJ along with Public Lands for the People (PLP) had already begun preparations for a lawsuit against the State.. The lawsuit will be filed shortly to restore the rights of suction dredge miners. Mining is a right that has been argued in court on many occasions, and there is plenty of precedence addressing this topic.

What You Need To Do Right Now
Public Lands for the People is in need of funds. They already have several lawsuits in progress against state and federal agencies, and would like to file a lawsuit against the State of California in federal court to restore the rights of suction dredge miners as soon as possible.

PLP is a non-profit organization and will continue to fight to restore the rights of suction dredgers, but they can only accomplish this task with your support. You can make a contribution by clicking on the Donate link on their website at www.plp2.org or by mail at:
PLP
c/o Barrett Wetherby
3700 Santa Carlotta
La Crescenta, CA 91214

  
dredgeguy
16:08:01 Tue
Sep 8 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hello Steve

We are just dredging until someone shuts us down.
So far it hasn't happened.

Many laws are broke everyday do to lack of enforcement, especially in Kalif.

We are no different then the people who still talk on cell phones in Kalif while driving.

While we get the legal ducks lined up we will continue to operate our valid FEDERAL MINING claim. It takes a little time to educate most attorneys on mining law.

hope you get a chance to get out and have some fun.

  
nebraskadad
19:51:47 Tue
Sep 8 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

I agree with Steve I can't imagine there isn't someone who isn't willing to contest this. :duuuh:

Both the PLP, NWMA, and 49ers all have attornies, may be it's high time to fire a class action suit against the peoples Republik, of Kalifornia?

These green whacks in DC and elsewhere need to be taken to the woodshed on this.. Counter claims should be for loss of a season's production while commodity prices have risen and sue for cost of legal services..

The Karuk issue was decide in the miners favor a couple of years ago, so they came back and had a bill introduced to usurp federal law.

This is not a mining issue.. This is a "rights" to public access and use issue.

[1 edits; Last edit by nebraskadad at 19:52:15 Tue Sep 8 2009]

  
tomcat_0
20:47:56 Tue
Sep 8 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Steve,

Please accept my apology for my comment to your post. Had I have gone over to the New49er's site, your point would have been much clearer to me and I would not have said what I did.

This is a good lesson learned for me. If you are going make a comment on what another person has written and in their writing they have advised of other writings they have made on the same subject, at a different location, better go there and see what they said before you stick your foot in your mouth.

And thanks Steve for your gracious explanation.

Dean
[1 edits; Last edit by tomcat_0 at 20:51:42 Tue Sep 8 2009]

  
Steve_Herschbach
22:17:46 Tue
Sep 8 2009

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Re: Kaleefornee mighta screwed up big time

Hi Dean,

No worries. You guys are in a pickle down there for sure. Hopefully once the PLP or New 49er's file suit others will sign on.

Steve Herschbach

  

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