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popandsonminers
17:57:33 Sat
Jun 16 2007

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The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Here's the draft version of the Popandson Sluice Design Guidelines. All the lines in the tables didn't show-up, and the text formating is a bit off, but it's not too bad. If you want an MSWord copy by e-mail, let me know:
SNDG@comcast.net. Comments/critique welcome here or by e-mail.

The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice,
Design and Operating Guidelines

Introduction

Many places in the world only have fine gold, or a significant component of the value is fine gold, which we figure is 100 mesh (150 micron) and smaller. There is a lot of existing technology capable of getting the +100 mesh, so we thought it worthwhile to go after the -100 mesh fine gold. Building on the successes of others to advance fine gold recovery technology, we experimented and tested and took the prototypes to the field and generally have had a very good time. I guess you could say we’re actually more innovators than miners, although someday we may get serious about actually recovering significant quantities of fine gold.

So through trail and error, we have developed the Popandson Sluice for fine gold recovery, comprised of a series of different sizes of raised expanded metal over Nomad miner’s moss in a simple and inexpensive gravity sluice. Testing 1,2 shows recoveries of +95% of gold from 100 to 200 mesh, and +85% of gold from 200-325 mesh at small scale “production rates”. Nuggets to 5/16” are also captured.



Figure 1. Here is a picture of an 8” wide x 6’ long Popandson Sluice,
looking from the head of the sluice, down.



Figure 2. And here, showing better detail of the expanded and hold
downs at the middle of the sluice where two lengths are bolted together.



Figure 3. Here’s another variation, showing the hold downs as studs with wing nuts keeping the expanded metal in place.


Sluice design basis

It’s useful to compare the published results from others, with the Popandson Sluice operating guidelines.



* Clarkson makes several references to percent recovery of fine gold, such as “Site A demonstrated that a sluice box can recover 95% of the gold as fine as 150 mesh…”5 What isn’t stated, is the mix of gold fractions comprising the total values. If a significant percentage was larger gold, then the percentage of say, 100-150 mesh gold recovered cannot be calculated, but would be much less than 95%.

(continued, next post)

  
popandsonminers
18:03:29 Sat
Jun 16 2007

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

(continued from previous post)


Sluice design



Figure 4. Schematic image of the Popandson Sluice design.



1) Clamps and hold-downs per Figure 1. Hold-down bars can be 3/16” or ¼” thick flatbar, about 1-1/2” wide. Aluminum is best for rust and weight. The clamps must be able to reach the hold-down bars when clamped over the upper edge of the sluice. Or, use studs and wingnuts per Figure 3.

2) A lightweight dampener will improve fine gold recovery since it knocks down floating gold. Use a 5/16” rod, 13” long and threaded at each end, or all-thread. Insert into drilled holes near the top edge of the sluice sides, about 14”-16” down from the top end and secure with wing nuts. Use a piece of 4-6mil clear Visqueen plastic, about 11-3/4” wide and 24-30” long, clamped to the rod as the dampener. Make spares.

3) If the quantity of water (or slurry) coming into the head of the sluice is about 40 GPM or less, the hose can be pointed down to the floor of the sluice and the slurry allowed to disperse. If more than 40 GPM is used, then a device will be required to slow the velocity and stop splashing of the incoming slurry. The easiest is a “crash box”, or header box, Figure 4, but a sluice flare is better as is minimizes air entrainment. Keene sells flares and maybe crash boxes, too. A diffuser pipe (2” pipe with ¾” holes drilled in it) is also effective to even the flow at the head of the sluice.

4) If the sluice is made longer, proportionately increase the length of the components.

5) If the sluice is made smaller, just change the widths of all materials. Compute the flows and feeds for the narrower width, based on the above table for a 12” wide sluice.

6) Feel free to change any of these materials to suit what you have available or what you think will work better.



Figure 5. Raised expanded metal specifications, McNichols



Figure 6. Sluice with “crash box” or “header box”

Sluice operation

The sluice will operate best with a maximum slurry size of ½”-3/4”, as long as the material will move down the sluice without stopping at the lowest water flows. A sluice is the last element in a gold recovery device such as a dredge, highbanker, washplant, trommel, or beach box. It can also be used to advantage as a scavenger sluice behind a jig, centrifuge or shaker table to check for lost values. Narrower versions are used for effective concentrate clean-up sluices at low flows, when the feed is a high percentage of black sand or other heavy material.

All operational instructions are based on a 12” wide sluice. Ratio the feeds and flows if your sluice is a different width.

Usually, run it at 1-1/2” slope per foot of length. This is a good middle ground for slope and will support a significant feed rate. Then the only variables are water flow rate, gravel feed rate, and feed composition (size and percentage of heavy material).

Dial-in your operation for the gold conditions.

The sluice will capture -300 gold at moderate rates of flow and feed. But, if your site only has gold down to 150 mesh, you can dramatically increase flow and feed, and still get a high percentage recovery of this larger gold. So, some initial testing is in order.

Set up the 12” wide sluice at 1-1/2” slope, and run it at about 15-20 GPM, which is about 1/4”-3/8” deep water. This is about as slow as you need to run for bank-run placer material. Feed at about 20-30 lbs/minute of minus ½” material. Run for long enough that you get a good sampling of gold sizes at clean-up.

If you have enough gold to use sieves, screen your gold to the various cuts. Maybe +100 mesh, 100-150, 150-200, 200-300 and -300. If you can’t screen, then you have to make an eyeball estimate of the quantity of each fraction of gold, which will be quite difficult and inaccurate. But, as well as you can, find the smallest size gold that you want to target, based on the percentage of that fraction in your sample. Then, set-up the sluice to run at the optimum setting to capture that size gold, and all larger sizes will be caught, too.

Production operation

Once you’ve determined the target gold size, you can run at the parameters in the next table. These are estimated feeds and flows to recover a high percentage of different target fractions of gold from bank-run placer material, or where there is about 5-10% of heavy material in the solids. Feeds must be reduced if there is a higher percentage of heavy material. Slope is 1-1/2” per foot of sluice length:



Feel free to experiment with different operating parameters. For instance, if water is scarce, a slope of 4” per foot of sluice length will greatly reduce the amount of water needed. But, we haven’t tested that condition for percentage recovery. Regardless of how comfortable you become with your set-up, occasionally catch a bucket of tailings and run it through the sluice at the min flow and feed to check for lost values.

Keep the diamonds clear and watch the dancing sands

The biggest cause of lost gold occurs when the diamonds become filled with dense material (usually black sand). Whatever the flow and feed are, it is critical to keep the diamonds cleared-out enough to keep the black sand fluidized and to be able to see some Nomad strands in the bottom of the diamond. The 3/16” expanded (smallest) will be the first to get filled up with black sand and lose the ability to recover gold. But, even if this should occasionally occur due to a surge, the larger expanded will still be operational.

Low density light sand (blonds) will not fill the diamonds when operated with placer gravel at the parameters in Table 3. These particles just flush on through and mostly bounce their way along the top of the expanded. But, at the bottom of the moving slurry the black sand (and gold) is flowing down the sluice right at the level of the expanded metal.

The vortex in each diamond keeps the black sand and gold fluidized forcing the gold down and into the Nomad. But when the diamond is too full of black sand, the vortex action cannot take place and motionless black sand fills the diamond. The gold merely skims down the sluice along with the moving black sand. If healthy vortices are working, there is a little mound of black sand at the head of each diamond. The grains are “dancing” in the vortex, and Nomad strands are visible at the bottom of the diamond. A sheet of clear plastic placed on the surface of the water makes it easy to see the dancing sands in action if the water is clear.

So, if the water is clear, stop the feed for about 5 seconds to let the light sands flow down the sluice, and check during this time and right after to see if you can see the dancing black sands and some Nomad. If the diamonds are full of black sand, there will sometimes be ribbons of black sand flowing down the sluice, also indicating the diamonds are full. If you see the diamonds are full of black sand or see ribbons, you are losing gold, so reduce the feed, increase the flow of water and/or increase the slope.

If the water is muddy, it’s more difficult to check. But, stop the feed for about 5 seconds and then stop the water flow and let the water drain from the sluice. The sand in the diamonds will collapse and flatten out, but you should be able to see the upper edge of the diamonds, all the way around, Figure 6. It takes a little practice to ignore whatever blond sand is in the diamond, and focus primarily on the black sand.



Another condition that will cause the diamonds to fill is running with a higher percentage of heavy material such as black sand, tungsten compounds or red garnet material found in the Nome sands. So, if it is used as a clean-up sluice, or if there is a high percentage of heavy material in the slurry, the feed must be reduced accordingly.

Here’s wishing you the best of success with the Popandson Sluice design. Please send us a report of your experiences, as we’re all still learning.

Regards,

Steve Gaber,
Jason Gaber
]sndg@comcast.net
May, 2007

References:

1)http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=62871&sub_topic_id=62872&mesg_id=&page=#62876

2) http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-viewthread?forum=2&thread=422

3) Poling and Hamilton, “Pilot Scale study of: Fine Gold Recovery of Selected Sluicebox Configurations”. University of British Columbia. Ref. Table 1

4) Clarkson, Randy, PE “Placer Gold Recovery Research, Final Summary” Prepared for the Klondike Placer Miner’s Association, 1990.

5) Clarkson, Randy, PE “Gold Losses at Klondike Placer Mines, Gold Recovery Project, Phase 1” Prepared for the Klondike Placer Miner’s Association, 1989. Ref. Pg. 2, 9, 19

6)http://www.keeneeng.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4500P&Category_Code=4ID



  
peluk
08:34:54 Sun
Jun 17 2007

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Good instructions and tips Steve and a clean,efficient design.

  
Wis49er
03:05:41 Mon
Jun 18 2007

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

This is excellant documentation. There is one thing I would like to see more about - the dampener. Yesterday I did a test using the concepts discussed here and found that the dampener seems to help over come flaws caused by all the different factors (water flow, slope of skuice, size of material, etc.). I used 8 mil plastic with a small stick on it and the size of the fine gold retained was remarkable. The type of black matting is also important. There are several variations that came be used. The height of the ridges on the matting can vary. Without further testing of it I can't say for certain what the effect is.

  
Hoppytraps
18:03:19 Mon
Jun 18 2007

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thank you for the great post. Will be building one of those for our fine Ohio gold!!!!

thanks again,

Will Hopkins

  
maximat
13:38:16 Thu
Mar 20 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Love your sluice. Would like to build one but would like
some more info. ie.source for miners moss, expanded metal ( steel or aluminim?), why no slick plate etc. Please send mw the PDF file you mentioned on your post.
Thank you for your time and help.
Tim Dyer (maximat)

  
the_troglodyte
15:26:30 Thu
Mar 20 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Nice job, popandsonminers. Thanks for all the effort.



---
Mariposa - South end of the California Mother Lode

Glenn
 
 
popandsonminers
03:21:06 Fri
Mar 21 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thanks everyone, for the kind words. We really do have the best fun experimenting with the sluice and the more people who try it out in different conditions the more we can all learn about catching fine gold. And the trip to Nome this summer was a highlight!!

The text in the original post on this thread has changed a little bit, but the biggest change is the addition of more feed and flow data from the Goldfield website and from Dr. Hermann Wotruba that I’ve acquired since the original version. The revised table is below.

One more thing that’s still not in the text of the paper: if you have gold bigger than a bb or so, I'd recommend that you put some 3# grating in the top of the sluice above the largest raised expanded metal. We don't show that in the guidelines, but have found that it is needed from running our 2" dredge this last summer. We just let the whole flow of the dredge hose go down the sluice so there were some 1-1/2” rocks in there. They, along with the increased volume with a dredge, will knock loose 22 bullets from the 1” raised expanded, so the 3# grating is there to catch any big gold that might find it’s way into our dredge nozzle (not yet, unfortunately, just lead bullets and lots of those).

If you have gold much bigger than a pea, you should add some riffles- perhaps like a Keene design.

And if you use the P&S sluice design, please post your experiences- good and not so good.


  
popandsonminers
03:43:27 Fri
Mar 21 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Tim Dyer,

I'd be glad to send you the Guidelines via e-mail. Just send me a PM with you addy, or e-mail me at SNDG@comcast.net. Miner's moss in small amounts is best from a Keene dealer or direct order. McNichols is a sure source for raised expanded metal, but very, very expensive, so look around in the metal supply outlets, sheet metal fab shops, scrap yards and farm stores. And as far a the slick plate/no slick plate, there are several threads that address that in detail. You can search on posts from Peluk, Zooka, Popandsonminers and others, with key word "slick", and you can find them pretty easily. Don't forget to check the box "5 hours and older" on the search page. Everyone but me is pretty much sold on the value of a slick plate.

  
Zooka
15:44:49 Fri
Mar 21 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Howdy, P&S,
I was looking at your numbers in the chart above and wondered at the feed rate for the Keene 4, based upon the maker's rating. Here is my math and answer, which though different from yours is still WAY faster than I have ever seen anyone successfully move flowsand much less dredge:
5 cu. yds. per hour = 2500 lbs per yard (average gravels) x 5 = 12500 lbs per hour.
12500 lbs per hour x .75 = 9375 lbs per foot of sluice width, per hour.
9375 lbs per hour divided by 60 minutes = 156.25 lbs per minute.
Still a LOT more than I would run thru a 4" dredge... that is the dredge's weight per minute.
Also, the Poling/Hamilton and Clarkson setups used 2 different widths depending on the riiffle style; the expanded metal riffles required twice the width to handle the same volume of feed as the 1 inch hungarians. But by the same token, a 1 foot hungarian section used 2x the water as a 1 foot expanded section, and processed twice the material per hour in their tests. Kind of hard to fit that info in your charts, I reckon...
80 lbs per minute thru your sluice gives it a thruput of 80 x 60 = 4800 lbs per hour, just under 2 cu. yards per hour per foot. THat makes for a pretty interesting challenge when applying it on a commercial scale - how does one make a plant able to handle 100 cu yd per hour through a P&S riffle system? THat'd take at least 50 feet of sluice WIDTH...
80 gpm x 50 feet width = 4000 gallons per MINUTE of water.
- whew! -
Quite a challenge to set up such a system.
-Z

  
AceHand
01:40:44 Sat
Mar 22 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

While the larger expanded can be found easily, I found the 3/16" at home depot in the appliance section in replacement air filters for above a kitchen range. The filter I found was 11" x 11". Your home depot stock on hand will probably vary. I also found 6" x 10' rolls of 3/16" used as a leaf barrier for home gutters. Both these raised expandeds are very similar to the type used by popandson. It sure beat having to order a much larger piece from a metal dealer. Much cheaper too.
I've also found some in commercial grease filters from a restaraunt. They were 2' x 2' and seem a little heavier duty. Probably harder to come by though. All these expandeds are aluminum.
Just thought I'd throw this info out here for anyone having a hard time finding some.

  
cali209
01:18:03 Sun
Mar 23 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Popandson,

Do you guys have one of these you can sell?

I surely can use this type of sluice but have no time to build one.

Let me know...

Thanks
[1 edits; Last edit by cali209 at 01:18:25 Sun Mar 23 2008]

  
Eu_citzen
10:59:41 Sun
Mar 23 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Cali welcome to AGF.

  
popandsonminers
02:08:48 Mon
Mar 24 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

AceHand’s post reminded me that there is also the “pet screen” at Lowes and others. Look in the screen door section and it comes in several different styles, but it’s all expanded metal in the smaller sizes. One is actually the 3/16” raised expanded metal I originally used on early prototypes. About $25 for a 30” x 30” piece, and it comes in colors, too!

Zooka, nice to hear from you and to know that you are critiquing the chart. That keeps me on my toes. I use 125 lbs/cuft for gravel density so it comes out to 210lbs/min thruput for the Keene dredge. Your figure of less than 100lbs/cuft is probably more accurate for loose gravel, which placer material is by the time it gets to the washplant. But regardless, only a fraction of the material goes thru the fine gold section of the Keene sluice- I think only the minus 3/16” material? So it’s a lot less.

It would be the same for a Goldfield or Clarkson setup, too. Only the minus 1” or ¾” would go thru the sluice. I’ve heard that’s maybe 30-50% of the total feed? To arrive at the Goldfield lbs/min per foot of width, for instance, I figured about half the feed was going to the sluices, which results in 3-400 lbs/min per foot, which is in the ball park with Clarkson and P/H. The Goldfield 200 yd/hr plant (100 yds to the sluice) has 15’ of sluice width and uses 2000 GPM of water.

So, yes, there will be challenges to designing a Popandson sluice on a commercial scale. But, maybe the feed is reduced to minus 3/8” in size and rate increased to 120 lbs/min per foot of sluice width. The 3/16” raised expanded metal would be too fragile so would have to use ½” as the smallest. Reduce the water to something manageable. Try out a number of bench tests to see how the new parameters affect performance. Tune the sluice to the actual conditions of the site and I do believe that a practical commercial P&S sluice can be designed to catch a high percentage of gold to 200 mesh and a significant amount of the 300 and smaller gold, too. I did a draft design for a 200 yd/hr operation and came up with about 28’ of sluice width (14’ for a 100 yd/hr). Not too bad. That’s only helpful, however, if your site actual has significant gold that small, like off-shore Nome.

Cali209- No, we don’t make and sell sluices. On the small scale we operate, it’s not worth it by a long shot. However, if someone on the forum wants to make up a bunch and offer them for sale, I’ll offer whatever advice I can on material sources and how to make a production model or two- just email me.

[1 edits; Last edit by popandsonminers at 02:09:33 Mon Mar 24 2008]

  
the_troglodyte
06:51:04 Mon
Mar 24 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I've been considering it, Popandsonsminers. I was going to make one for myself pretty soon. I have a shear, press and homemade break, and have done quite a bit of fabrication and had my own welding shop since 1974, so this wouldn't be too hard if I can work it in between my regular work.. I can e-mail you for details.



---
Mariposa - South end of the California Mother Lode

Glenn
 
 
Zooka
02:30:06 Tue
Mar 25 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Popandsons,
Correct me if I am wrong but I recall the Poling and Clkarkson studies were based on actual yardage thru the sluice, after the screening, not based upon actual mine yardages.
Back when I was learning the pit sampling trade from an experienced miner and mining engineer, he had me segregate each sample by % of rock over 2 inches, and over 3/4 inches (our trommel screen size). That way we had a rough estimation of hoew much of the ore in a given sasmple would actually end up in the slucies.
In that particular placer gold deposit (Manhattan Gulch, Nevada) we found that if the +2" was over 60%, the ore would be the best. When +2 was 30% and +3/4" was under 40% we'd get the lowest gold per bank cubic yard even though we had to run a lot slower because of the larger % going into the sluices.
But it made sense, in most all of the other streams I have been in the best gold was in with the biggest rocks; sand or gravel bars were the poorest.
How that translates in the world of mining is that in those hot areas, where the rocks averaged a larger size, we could shove a lot more ore thru the hopper of the wash plant per hour without overloading the sluice, because a lot of it would go off the hopper screen or out the end of the trommel and not down the sluice
So you are saying that your numbers for the Keene sluice are based upon a large % of the yardage going down the upper sluice and not thru the screen to the lower deck. 'I still say that is too fast - their rating is way out of line with the reality of suction dredging. Only time you can run fastest is when all the rocks are under your nozzle size, and usually that means a ton of minus 3/8 sand thru the screens as well. Recipe for overloading the sluices. It is ironic - when you are in an area where you have to put down the nozzle and move rocks half the time, the sluices run clear, no danger of packing them up and losing fines, but the gold is so big there you dont need to worry about losing fines; and where the ore is sandy or gravelly you have to really slow down the temptation to hog it fast because the gold is so small that only the under sluice is optimized for its recovery, but the undersluice is getting slammed by the volume of minus sands... so finer folds actually causes an exaggerated discrepancy in ounces per day. You can run 20 yards of the large-cobble stuff in the same period you could run only 15 yards of the smaller stuff... but the gold is better in the larger stuff usually as well. Double whammy.
I blather, sorry, just sort of wandering...
-Z

  
the_troglodyte
03:46:23 Tue
Mar 25 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Please keep blathering, Zooka. You just blew apart my ideas of where to find gold in a placer deposit. No wonder I have been shoveling so much sand and dirt for so little gold.. (mini-trommel)

Information like that is not easy to find. Thanks.




---
Mariposa - South end of the California Mother Lode

Glenn
 
 
twobitcreek
21:03:47 Thu
Mar 27 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines


Hello popandson this is twobitcreek in South Dakota the water is still to hard to pump but we are getting ready for the thaw. The sluice that you have is about the same as the one that I built. I followed the design of Randy Clarkson in his riffle study. Ours is two feet wide and twenty feet long.the top ten feet have 11/2 "angle iron riffles that are set back 15 degrees. and is set at a drop of 3" per foot. The bottom ten foot and has #4 expanded metal. We pump 320gpm and a feed rate of 160lbs per min more or less.we have a small trommel that we feed by hand. We screen our material to 1" minus before the trommel and than it is screened to 1/2" minus. we have 3/8 inch punch plate in the top two feet of the sluice. This works real well,and we seen to be recovering most of the gold . we test the tailing about every two hours and there is little to no gold in them. Can you tell if there is any diffrents in the gold recovery in the size of expanded metal?
Thankyou twobitcreek

  
popandsonminers
03:39:45 Fri
Mar 28 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Twobitcreek,

Fantastic, you have a perfect set-up to see if you can improve your fine gold recovery and it won’t take much effort. I have no advice on the upper 10’ of your sluice and want to focus on your lower sluice which is 10’ long with 4# grating (expanded metal).

My recommendations are based on having Nomad under your expanded metal and having the slope of your lower sluice at 1-1/2” per foot of sluice. Do you know the mesh size of the finer gold you are now getting?

To test if you can recover more fine gold, I would just put a scavenger extension on the end of your existing sluice. Your feed (80 lbs/ min/ft of width, minus ½”) is right in the ball park to get a good recovery of minus 100 mesh gold. Your flow (160 GPM/ft of width) seems a bit strong for good fine gold recovery, so reduce that by about half. This will still work well, since you are feeding only 20-25% of the material that Clarkson and P/H recommend.

Make the scavenger sluice 2’ long and put ½” raised expanded metal over backed Nomad in it. Bolt it or clamp it to the end of your existing sluice and see what you capture after running for a day or two. Or, if you see any gold in the scavenger sluice, clean up sooner. If you have minus 100 mesh gold in your feed, I believe that you will recovery some in the scavenger sluice, since the 4# grating is pretty coarse for the smaller gold.

If you get some good gold in the scavenger sluice, then we can figure out modifications to your current sluice. Ten foot of sluice is plenty long for a shovel operation, so you could trim back the 4# material and put in some ½” and maybe 3/16” raised expanded downstream in the sluice. The 3/16” will bow in the middle of a 2’ width, so you need to figure out a way to hold it down in the middle. See Fig. 3 in the first post in this thread for an idea about using a clamping strip down the middle of the sluice to hold down the 3/16” material. If you don’t get any gold in the 3/16”, then you can run the more robust ½” in the entire lower end of the sluice.

Good luck and please, once your water turns to liquid and you can run your sluice, tell us how it goes and post some pictures.

  
Zooka
04:54:12 Fri
Mar 28 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Dern my last reply got me all confused and I lost my train of thought, ended up hijacking the thread some there, my apologies.
What I was trying to say in the context of this thread is that the P&S parameters of feed rate, flow rated and slope, versus the Poling/Clarkson parameters, have some interesting permutations when it comes to correctly sizing your equipment.
Say you have a sluice set up for the Poling / Clarkson riffles, a screening plant of some sort sized to process that yardage per hour of the P/C feed rate, and excavators, loaders, whatever to feed it at that rate. THat sizing choice usually is made around the heavy equipment and/or plant, and the parameter for its choice is the biggest you can afford to run.
But if you try and change over that plant and equipment setup to process for a P&S sluice setup, your thruput (and ounces per day) will have to change, usually to the lower.
Let's say you have a convsntional plant set up to process ore that is 60% oversize thru the trommel or screens. So 40 % goes to the sluices. They are sized and the pump is sized to handle that 40%.
But if you then go to a finer gold deposit, in a bench that is say only 30% bigger than the screen, you cannot feed the sluices at the same rate. If you did you would have nearly twice as much material in the sluices per hour, with the same water. You would have to slow down the feed to compensate.
enter the P&S sluice.
Its parameters are so much lower in the realm of water and feed per foot of width, and so much more forgiving in the realm of water to ore ratio, that I believe you could indeed build a tiered set of P&S sluices and replace the poling/ clarkson sluices innthis hypothetical plant with them, and run at the same rate in YPH! Avoid the double whammy of lower feed rate and finer gold to recover.
Hope this is not blathering. I need to sit down and study on this some, and write an article. Then get Dick to test it out for me, LOL!
-Z

  
twobitcreek
18:30:36 Fri
Mar 28 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Thank you for the reply. Ok the lower end of the sluice is set at 1 1/2 drop per foot. I like the Idea of the extra sluices at the end. I have two 8' X 12" sluices that I can attach to the lower end easy enough. My tailings don't show that I am losing much gold bigger then micron size, but if I can catch that too it will be a plus. and I tried to attach pics I hope that they come through.
twobitcreek

  
popandsonminers
00:56:22 Sun
Apr 6 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Twobitcreek has sent me some pictures to post. His original sluice had punch plate with ribbed under it right at the top for the initial gold recovery, then Clarkson riffles in the top sluice @3” slope and then 4# grating in the lower sluice at 1-1/2” slope. He will try smaller expanded metal in his lower sluice, as shown in the first picture, to see if he catches any more fine gold.

This is really a nice set-up where he looks like he processes a respectable amount of material and doesn't have to mortgage the farm to do it!

Here are twobitcreek's text and pictures:

Well yes of course you can post them. Ok the first one is us setting up to find the height from floor to the bottom of the sluice so that we could dig out under the trommel so that we had room to get the three inch per foot drop. And drill the holes for the 3/8 rods that are used to hold the wooden wedges in place that hold the expanded down.



And the second pic is of me setting up the second spray bar in the back of the trommel to help keep the trommel tray clean. And the grizzly is an old cattle guard with 1" screen bolted to it. It works great.

There is alot of heavys in the gravel, hematite mostly. We test the tailing pile every two hours and the gold that we are letting be is 600 mesh micron gold and there is not much of that. It is like face powder fine. We recover most of the gold on the ribbed rubber matting that is just above the riffles. Then the riffles catch the rest, except the real small gold and it is caught in the expanded.



I am sending you some pics of our pit system.





Flash in the pan!!



  
popandsonminers
00:59:28 Sun
Apr 6 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

And yes, Zooka, we (at least some of us) enjoy your blathering. Please do think on it and write that article. Then get your hypothesis tested for real!! This is getting interesting---

  
viniv
15:23:48 Sun
Apr 6 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I simply added 3/16 raised metal to my power sluice and already holding better gold I will be upgrading the whole sluice to pops method for working all blacks sands TY very much for all the research work .

  
viniv
04:05:32 Mon
Apr 7 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Ok ran some black sands that I had already blue bowled back threw my sluice this is more then I thought I would find, just with one raised metal piece I could not believe it. I was about to dump those concentrates too....



[1 edits; Last edit by viniv at 04:07:48 Mon Apr 7 2008]

  
gray_wolf
15:50:54 Mon
Apr 7 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hey Viniv!!
Looks like a nice little set you got there. Is that a stock Keen mini sluice?
How much of the 3/16 expanded?
How do you like that spray bar clip?
what is your water flow ( how much )
and what is your water supply?
looks like 1" pvc
I would just like to know if that is OK.

Thank you
GW.
[1 edits; Last edit by gray_wolf at 15:54:01 Mon Apr 7 2008]

  
JOE_S_INDY
17:55:00 Mon
Apr 7 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Viniv,

Look at that last picture - the mini sluice with the two 1" water sources at the top. There is a 'Black Dot' in the middle of the bottom of your slick plate. Not enough water flow to move those black sands down, making a 'catchment'.

I suspect you need a bit more water in the middle of the plate. As an experiment, I would bring a supply down, "T" it and then cap both ends of the "T". Then drill more holes than needed along the entire width of the box. They wouldn't be spray holes since the concentrates seem to have been washed already, but rather just water supply holes.

Mighty fine little box there!

Joe



---
Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
viniv
21:15:33 Mon
Apr 7 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Yeah I see it Joe and am going to change that over with more holes it all comes apart nothing is glued together.

Thats a custom made sluice by RCM Enterprises, with a 12V Attwood V750 pump about 550-750 GPH

The sluice is 6"x24" so thats about 12" of expanded but I want to cut that in half and run another 6" of smaller stuff though that is catching all if not most of the fines pretty nicely.


I bought the sluice to use in really small creeks with trickles of water but its definetly multi functional and all of it fits in a 5 gallon bucket
:smile:

  
viniv
03:07:15 Tue
Apr 8 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Talked with Rick today the guy who makes the sluices he says lose the riffles if I'm going to run it this way so will give that a try also.

  
twobitcreek
03:27:49 Tue
Apr 8 2008

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

hello again well we just got another 6" of snow so the ice should be gone in about three weeks I am going to try to send more pics
twobitcreek

  

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