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dungbeetle
22:58:53 Sat
Feb 5 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Just setup with the scourer pads - works well, looks queer.. vry easy to clean out.


  
baub
16:28:40 Sun
Feb 6 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

It looks like a great fine gold getter. Any problems with the pads ?

  
dungbeetle
17:57:17 Sun
Feb 6 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Quote: baub at 16:28:40 Sun Feb 6 2011

It looks like a great fine gold getter. Any problems with the pads ?



Hi mate - no dramas with the pads, just wish i could find big sheets of the stuff but at $3.25 for a twenty pack i'm not complaining. I was very surprised at how easy they are to clean out, just a quick squirt with the hose and all is good.

I didn't have time this run (contract job) but next run I'll seperate the cons from the top of the pads and the cons from the underlying rubber matt. I would like to see how much gold actually drops down through the pad weave, and how much remains on top.

  
baub
03:32:58 Mon
Feb 7 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Cool ! Please let us know.

b

  
BabeShooter
10:54:01 Sat
Dec 17 2011

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hey, I'm from Ohio! I live in southern California now. Where Are you finding gold in Ohio? Going home for the holidays and wold love to find gold for Christmas! LOL

Go Buckeyes!

Chris

  
Gani24
10:47:09 Wed
Apr 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Well, I thought the revival of the thread is of benefit to some of the forum members.

I am in the process of building the "Popandson Fine Gold Sluice". I have most of the sluice building material, but the difficult part that I couldn't get my hands on is the (3/16”) expanded size of the last part in the sluice. This expanded piece is put at the bottom of the sluice , and according to the Guide lines that is published by the developers of the sluice is very important because it vital fro capturing the finest pieces of Gold. My problem is can I substitute that size of piece with the metal mesh from the metal waste basket ? I mean the mesh has fine openings , so any one has idea about the possibilities of this ? This is the last part that I don't have locally , I searched for a while to no avail ( I reside in Africa, by the way). Also importing such thing is very costly. Any help would be appreciated.

the metal waste basket I am referring to , is Like this one:


  
popandsonminers
15:39:55 Wed
Apr 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hi Gani24,

Yes, you can use the waste basket material as a substitute, but if it's similar to the ones I've seen, the mesh is quite small (your image didn't come thru to the forum). You could eliminate the 3/16" material and go with just the 1/2" as your smallest, as others have reported good success with this combination. I have found that the 3/16" catches some of the smaller gold, however. We're currently working on a small scale hard rock ore grinding/concentrating system that will use the P&S sluice as the concentrator, since it really is effective on the fine hard rock gold.

If you like, send me a PM with the dimensions of 3/16" mesh you need, and I'll send it to you, no charge. The same goes for others that may need some.

Steve

  
Jim_Alaska
16:01:41 Wed
Apr 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

What a great, thoughtful offer Steve. Miners helping miners, I love it.



---
Jim_Alaska
Administrator
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
baub
21:50:33 Wed
Apr 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I've talked and listened to Steve and his son on a occasions. These are genuinely fine people and a pleasure to have as friends.
I've built 2 of their P/S style sluices and am totally satisfied. I've found no Au at all in the tails .

b

  
baub
13:14:28 Sat
Apr 27 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I reread this thread and might offer a suggestion for those who have a large operation using riffles etc to capture the biggies.
Add a classification stage followed by a p/s variant, both of the appropriate size to the output of the existing sluice to capture the very fines. As the bulk of the material is processed by the conbentionat sluice and further bulk reduction is achieved with the classifier, the p/s would not be outlandishly sized, nor would it require more water to operate.

b

  
dredger
00:46:55 Mon
Apr 29 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

:smile: baub,

Can you do a or a few sketchs please mate,

phil.


  
baub
20:32:12 Tue
Apr 30 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I dont know how to do sketches on the computer. From what I've gathered, there is less fine material and gold in the Ak placers.
Assume that the miner is using a 4' by 20' single sluice as his end recovery unit. Put a screen of say 1/8 in mesh, 4' by 8', at the end of the sluice and direct the oversize away from the P/S underneath and the minus 1/8th into the P/S for further processing. Might need a launder to collect and guide the fines to the P/S. The screen would have to be at a sharp angle to flow well enough to carry oversize material away. It might also need to be supported well enough for the shock of the big rocks. Prescreening might be a good idea before the material goes over the primary sluice too.
The P/S would need to be size, flow, tilt etc optimized to meet the particular sites requirements. Fer example a 4'by8' P/S might handle 4tph of fines, perhaps recovering 90% down to 250 mesh and require little attention once built. Screening this small might obviate the need for the larger raised expanded metal sections and need only be built with 3/8ths raised expanded. You could build it large enough to only require once a shift/day/week cleanup. It's passive in nature and needs very little love.
Will work on pix in the future.

b

  
dredger
04:13:10 Wed
May 8 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Mate, can i suggest you get some coloured pencils and a rubber and do a drawing by hand, then take a photo and transfer to computer, confused:
I think you are absolutely right in that P/S concepts would greatly improve “large recovery systems “,
I also think you are a very inspiring credit to this forum , ( smiley face, ). So.
Quick as I can, please imagine a trommell, or primary wash and classification shaker or such machine/plant, then more classification /screening, say 3 screen sizes, followed by and feeding to relevant screen size P/S specification sluices,
Ouch, that is going to be pretty big spread of mesh and matting, for med to large mining operation to clean and replace, so I suggest considering the large amounts of gravels being processed, and you have already got say 3-4 size classifications, this might be an excellent time to add another “ and different concept of specific Gravity separation “, focused on reducing the volume of gravels “actually carrying gold bearing gravels “ “”before “” they are sluiced down the P/S spec sluices,
I would go further and suggest that if it were possible to “accurately “remove ( guessing )??? %80 of none gold bearing gravels, before the gold bearing gravels hit the sluices, the total surface area of the sluices would be focused and perhaps determined not by the volume of expected production, but more towards expected total gold recovered, please note, at this point classification is accurate, 3-4 screen sizes, water levels required to this point would also be reduced, to P/s specs,
Or could this be a compromise between how much gold I think I will get , and how much mesh and matting required to recover “ and store “ opposed to how much bigger the surface area of sluice required to have a good safety margin, again opposed or relative to how often I want or have to clean the mesh and matting, ???.
So What I could be suggesting or thinking is a scenario like this, imagine a big operation, and a 20ton loader feeding a 30’ trommell, below that trommell is a compact 4 screen classifier, feeding 4 different screened size , 0 to 1’, each into small compact ?? hopper, “ specific gravity separator, where 80% of none gold bearing gravels and excess water flow to the required P/S specs, are rejected, and all the gold and some heavy black sands and relative water flow down the P/S sluices, “which could be 80% smaller” then envisaged, “that would be tiny compared the the size of sluices we are used to seeing in a big operation, , ??. especially if there was a focus on cleaning the sluice more regularly, simply cause the total surface area of the sluice is small and easy to quickly remove the matting and mesh, flush the sluice into a bin, and replace mesh and matting,
Baub that reminds me of you saying, You could build it large enough to only require once a shift/day/week cleanup.
For the new guys ,please note some operations have different ideas and different requirements on how long between clean ups, shift/day/week cleanup.
This brings back a few experiences that I think the new guys should be aware of,
backasap. :smile:

  
baub
17:14:29 Wed
May 8 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

I failed to mention that this should decision should be dominated by the cost benefit ratio idea. If this passes this test, to be determined by testing etc, then and only then, would it be worthwhile to go forward.
This is an additional 2-3 steps to integrate into an already operating mining system in most cases. Upon review I can see that I missed the super critical step of justification or "need" stage and jumped to the "here's a fix" stage.
Because of the enormous number of individual mining operations and their permutations, it's tough to simply plug in a fix like this without considering all the pros and cons.
Another thing I jumped over was the size of gold being lost and the amount in oz/time unit and how important this is. These questions would be answered in the testing stage or assays of the tails.
If you HAD justification to improve your yield and had a need to capture say -100 mesh, then your screening could be 1/8th in or so. P/S sluices will get a very high percentage of this micro gold. This size screening would enable you to run a single (or double wide) P/S sluice of the appropriate length and width for your individual situation. In other words, one that uses 3/8ths only raised expanded with your chioce of matting, length and width. No need for the bigger mesh in the P/S as the existing plant should get most all down to -20 or so of the free gold passing over it.
This probably should be considered an "add on" to the tail end of an existing wash plant too.
Thanks dredger for the hints. When I read your post, I saw mine was incomplete and a bit misleading as it presupposes that the reader could also read my mind and fill in the gaps.
Also I want to thank you for the long term posts about "dredging outside the box".

b

  
baub
17:21:25 Wed
May 8 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Addendum:

It's called Dredging with Hydraulic Excavator.
Another thing that popped up that the high dollars guys might want to consider, is these rotary screening units that fit on to many sizes of excavators and loaders. Impressive thruputs that might reduce the need for elaborate screening plants ahead of the wash plants. Low maintenance and flexibility. One from Australia has a very quick screen change time which allows one machine to further classify raw mat'ls quickly.

b

  
popandsonminers
19:01:22 Wed
May 8 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Yes, a very good discussion happening here. I agree, the first step is to test, test, test. Now that I’m retired (!!), time has freed up and I’d be interested to collaborate with anyone who has a claim and wants to test for commercial fine gold recovery. This could be a fine-gold-only operation like beach or river sands, or could be a placer operation with coarse gold, where there may be a significant loss of fine gold. For the latter, I’ve designed a clamp-on diverter to fit the end of a large sluice in an existing operation. This will continuously divert a fraction of the spent slurry into a P&S test sluice to check for recoverable fine gold. It could run for hours or even days at a time and give better results than just spot checking the sluice tailings.

This is truly an interesting topic and I’ve spent a lot of time considering how to scale up a P&S sluice for a tons-per-hour placer operation. Both the Frasier and Snake rivers are reported to have abundant fine gold, and are within commuting distance of my home. I’ve been to the Nome beach (Hi Chick), but never used any equipment bigger than recreational size. I spent some time working with a guy who wanted to process the Yakataga sands, but it never got off the drawing board. I think all these are prime candidates for a commercial fine-gold sluicing operation using the P&S sluice strategy. There are undoubtedly many more that I’m not aware of.

I do think the key to success is to reduce the P&S slurry feed size to 1/8" or so. This reduces the volume dramatically and the turbulence caused by larger gravel. It also reduces wear to the expanded metal, which can get pounded pretty badly by larger pieces.

So, if you have a mining claim with the potential for significant fine gold recovery and would like to get a discussion going with me, just send me a PM and we’ll see where it goes. And with your permission, we could post the highlites here on the forum for all to critique and add ideas.

  
dredger
00:35:21 Fri
May 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

:smile: “ Dredging with a Hydraulic Excavator Outside the Box”, you
Are good mate, thanks,
No worries mate, that sounds like a good plan, like we say down under, You are skinning this cat, I am only holding the tail, haha,
Please, if you can post some links of the “ excavator screening units “ you refer to on the “ dredging with excavator” thread, , as you can imagine I have put considerable thought into pre-screening using excavators, I would love to tell you about my experiences on the other thread, ?.
Look forward to you getting some sketches posted,
Hey P&S,
Good to see you posting, and I agree with Jim,
You said,
“ I’ve designed a clamp-on diverter to fit the end of a large sluice in an existing operation. This will continuously divert a fraction of the spent slurry into a P&S test sluice to check for recoverable fine gold. It could run for hours or even days at a time and give better results than just spot checking the sluice tailings”.
Excellent idea, I agree, better results then spot checking,
You said,
“I do think the key to success is to reduce the P&S slurry feed size to 1/8" or so”.
Does your new design, diverter incorporate a reduction slurry feed concept, ??
Phil. ,
:smile:

  
popandsonminers
14:32:05 Sat
May 11 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hey Phil, nice to see all of your posts, too!

For the slurry flow diverter off of a larger production sluice, I think simple is better, so would not suggest a screen or grizzly for the initial testing. A simple diverter and P&S sluice will give a good indication whether or not additional values can be recovered. If the results are promising, then further refinement can be undertaken.

I think it's more important to concentrate on water flow, slurry feed rate and slope with the P&S test sluice. If the diamonds get packed up, the gold just skips right out the end of the sluice. Keeping the slurry fluidized in the diamonds is essential for capturing the gold.

  
dredger
04:44:05 Sun
May 12 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines


Hey P&S,
You say,
A simple diverter and P&S sluice will give a good indication whether or not additional values can be recovered. If the results are promising, then further refinement can be undertaken.
:smile: Mate, I can't wait, I think there will be plenty of options after that,
Quick and easy,
Checking to see how quick the primary recovery system starts loosing gold, ??.
Checking to see how much gold is being lost,
Checking to see the or if a general shape and size of gold being lost by that perticular primary recovery system, ??And more,
You say,
If the diamonds get packed up, the gold just skips right out the end of the sluice. Keeping the slurry fluidized in the diamonds is essential for capturing the gold.
I would suggest the up-side of that is the diamond shape create variable shape vortexes and live crescents that appear to me to be focused or tuned to and naturalizing the affects of black sands "on" fine gold, resulting in better overall fine gold recovery, and better sorting in the available gold storage areas,
As opposed to a long rack of right angle riffles,

:smile:

  
baub
20:40:58 Sun
May 12 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Dredger,

Agreed.

  
Gani24
22:55:42 Mon
Jun 10 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Hi ( Pop)

I think you're right the mesh size of the waste metal basket is quite small .Look at the image below of the waste basket I am referring to. Sorry for the first one .

I am really excited to know you're breaking new ground as using your well designed sluice as a concentrator for hard rock ore grinding system. That will be great especially for those of us who are more used to hard rock mining operations.

Of course I would like some. And PM sent.

As always Steve is amazing in helping miners with his time and resources, because he is a nice and great man.

Thanks A lot (Pop) :doublethumbsup:


This is the waste basket picture:

http://www.ajproducts.ie/Archive/ASE/ProductArchive/VAR125221/VAR125221_1_0.jpg
[1 edits; Last edit by Gani24 at 23:23:47 Mon Jun 10 2013]

  
Gani24
21:32:38 Sat
Jun 15 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

To those who want more (background) research of the evolution of the "PopandSon" fine gold sluice, here's a link to a resource I found interesting. This thread was in
(Prospectors Cache Forum) http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php , now defunct. This forum was a mine of itself , full of discussions and fabulous members.


The thread that is started by "popandsonminers" and titled "Sluice Bench Testing, Phase 1" Dated as :Sat Oct-01-05 06:53 PM

I used the "way back machine" tool found in The Internet Archive (archive.org) to fetch it .

and here you go without further ado, but keep in mind that this thread is a one long-page:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060630063812/http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=62871&mesg_id=&page=&mode=full


This documents the background research done by the "Popandson" Du. Some pictures , tables and discussions of their findings.

I hope you find it interesting and invaluable as I did.
[1 edits; Last edit by Gani24 at 21:33:43 Sat Jun 15 2013]

  
popandsonminers
00:46:53 Sun
Jun 16 2013

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Re: The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

Gani24,

Thanks for the kind words- it's rewarding to hear success stories from P&S builders/users, and I'm glad to help make that happen. We started this adventure 8 years ago (!) and it's been a continual source of enjoyment for both me and Jason. Once you get your sluice running and have some results, we'll be looking for pictures on this forum!

  

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