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dredger
01:29:00 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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puddler/ concentrator concept,

Ok, I am trying to convey some lines of my thought :confused:, on quick /easer way of breaking up clay, and basically concentrating larger amounts of pay gravel down to smaller amounts of pay gravels as quick as possible,( by hand ) then processing them through a ??? pan ,river sluice , or hybanker,

First , my line of thought is when panning off a full pan of dirt, is to first to wet the material as i shovel the material in to the pan, then using my hand I rub the material into the pan, while shaking the pan to settle the gold and heavies into the bottom of the pan, then removing the larger rock with my fingers, and lighter materials by back panning,

If the material is or has excessive clay , I will try to use a small shovel to " slice and dice " the clay " clumps " with ample water before I start panning off,

better get the drawing up,


  
dredger
01:34:48 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

,

Yes, it is a wheel barrow, which is not that dissimilar or unlike a big pan, when it comes to just settling the gold and heavies,

  
dredger
03:26:58 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

1, is the pile of material to be processed,
2, is blonde digger,
3, is digger wearing hat, and using a shovel to back blade the material in the barrow tub, similar to mixing cement,
Please note at this point water is added either by bucket, or a slow running hose,perhaps by siphoning water from s bucket hung in a tree, or run a 1/2" hose from the sluice or hybanker pump.
4, is the reduce pile,
5, is blond digger helping with back blading and removing over size washed rock , ( sorry i forgot to draw piles of oversize scraped off the barrow, the pile would be between the Blondie digger and the barrow wheel. ).
6, is the digger with the hat, who is moving and tiltling the wheel barrow to cause the heavies to sink,
6 1/2, is at this point, only lighter materials and excess water sludge and slurry , no black sands or visible gold have left the barrow, ( via a chute ) and passed to the sluice, so inspection of the sluice should show no gold, ( at that point, ).
7, is a smaller pile, depending on the clay content, rock sizes, and or many other variables , i thinking,hoping, that perhaps 3-4-5-6 wheelbarrows of material / gravels could be concentrated in the barrow before actually placing the cons into a river sluice/ hy/banker,
8, is the blonde digger has moved to the back of the sluice.
9, is the digger with the hat slowly pours the clean concentrated materials /gold into the head of the sluice/hy/banker, some dirty water,
10, is the blonde digger directing the digger with the hat, so as to not overload the flow, and report on seeing how much gold is passing from the barrow to and through the head of the sluice, ( sorry ,I should have drawn the blonde digger closer to the head of the sluice for a good field of vision,

I suggest anyone that tried my concept, should first time and record how much materials they process with their present method, river sluice /hy/banker, ect, then try the barrow then time this concept and see if you are moving more material overall. :devil:

dredger,

  
Jim_Alaska
04:50:23 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Thanks for this Phill, this is just the kind of thing that makes this forum great. Good practical information. Your idea looks very workable, can't wait to try it.



---
Jim (Alaska)
Administrator
Jim Foley's Alaska
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
rockytopp
10:46:56 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

I have done this before using a barrel set at an angle on rollers like a portable cement mixer, fill it half full and run water to it untill your discharge water runs clean.

  
Dan_G
14:41:23 Wed
Feb 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

dredger,

I agree with Jim that this is a good concept. I ran an experiment last spring on some old tailing samples which accomplished the same thing on a smaller scale using 5 gal bucket and classifiers and water pressure from a nozzle on a half inch hose. The slicing and dicing was achieved by water pressure pushing the dry clay materiel through the classifiers and the classifiers took care of the material reduction. The final stage was a P&S sluice receiving minus one eighth material. With the minus one eighth classification I was able to use a 12V pump to supply the sluice. Recovery of -100 mesh was good and I believe I was recovering what the old timers had blown through their sluices as balls of clay.

In your case I think you could reduce manual labor and move more material by using spray bars and some kind of grizzy or punch plate over the wheel barrow since you are already pumping water to the wheel barrow.

Good Luck
Dan G

  
dredger
01:24:20 Fri
Feb 27 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Jim, Guys , I am really sorry, ( lost a big one yesterday ):confused: bussy as, back asap.

phill.

  
Muley
04:25:00 Fri
Feb 27 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

I don't have a way too do drawing's on the computer, So you'll have too try and visualize my idea. If I understand from "Neverborn's" picture right his operation is all done by hand (covert mining) no pumps and no generator, all by hand.
Given that information my idea would go something like this, Take a 5 gallon bucket (plastic would work best) mount a piece of flat bar in the bottom of the bucket with a piece of pipe about 1-2" tall in the center of the bucket, then take a paint mixer and put it in the bucket and make a top piece to hold it centered in the bucket and turn it by hand with a handle.
the method would go something like this add some water to the bucket then some clay and break up the clay by turning it by hand and have a valve on the bottom too regulate how much slurry to drain off into the sluice box. (Kinda like a modified ice cream maker) with a open top too see / make the slurry.

Maybe someone can draw a picture for better visualization.
That's my 2-cents
:smile:
Muley

  
Muley
23:02:19 Fri
Feb 27 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

On second thought one could just make a mixer / stirring device that set's down in a 5 gal bucket. i.e roll (2) 2" x .125" flat bar to a maximum o.d. that is -.250" of the I.D. of the bucket and build it to fit inside the bucket. Weld some large washers to the center rod to hold the top centering ring in place That way it will serve you for many years , where a plastic bucket won't last long at all.
:smile:
Muley

  
dredger
01:18:38 Sat
Feb 28 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Guys,

Really , drawing and arrows on pics, is easy and I would suggest most computers can do it,

I thought operating a computer just to get on the Internet/forum was too hard for me, and it is not, and I am a dummy,

Photo bucket holds over 550 pics for me over 4 years, and I have neverr paid a cent,( and they never asked, ( and they print and send one or two cheap ) no problems, I can google earth the world and " SAVE" a pic from anywhere in my computer, in minutes, draw on it in minutes, photo bucket is easy to use, and moving them on to the forum in minutes, photo bucket fixes the sizes and all that, no worries,

Right click " copy and Paste " and "save" is what it is all about, have a go, it is fun,when ya learn a few steps,

back soon,

Ok, Jim, I am happy to do what little I don't loose, :confused:haha, got some good stuff in pics coming soon, about half done, but I do like them, bussy as too,

Glad to hear you gonna have a go at a barrow, which gives me another idea, where we may be able to help out some of the new guys, that have little experience in panning, ( just starting off gold mining, / fossicing,), ect.

Ok, I am not saying I or you are the best panners, I am just saying we are experienced:devil:, and we can see in our minds that when and as we are panning down the heavies/ black sands/gold are settling to the bottom of the pan/barrow ,as well as being aware that attached/ quartz/gold/ ect will ride high on the black sands in amongst the lighter sg, and lighter colour gravels , as well as really small flat flaky gold ,small odd shaped floaty gold ect, will "ride " high in the black sands, that is how I would imagine the gravels /b/s/gold would ride in the barrow, or plastic wheel/barrow tube, ( a metal tube is good too, ),

For the new guys, an experience of mine, ( and I think you will find it too, ( as you find different areas to prospect, ) is too work in a area where the " average " black sand content in a pan of dirt from river gravels or upper bench dry river gravel is say , ( after panning out ) about 1/8 to 1/4 black sands left in the pan, and in other areas, wow, too much black sand every where, like 1/2 to 3/4 black sands left in the pan after panning down a average pan,

post and back soon,

  
charlene91
19:07:25 Sat
Feb 28 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

why not use a trommel like i make and use .charlene



---
My trommel gets the rocks so clean,
And breaks up all the clay;
It works and works - so lean and mean -
Works all the live long day.

So if you want no rocks or clay
To ever slow you down,
Just use a trommel every day
And watch 'er go to town!

What is that yellow in my swirls?
Could all of that be gold?
O, trommel, trommel... I'm your girl,
Together we'll grow old.


Written by AKLady
 
 
kiwijw
22:18:42 Sat
Feb 28 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Hi guys, Last year I threw together this contraption. Down Under (Australia/New Zealand) we call them a Banjo. You guys call them a Highbanker. Not quite the same as your Highbanker/Dredge combo but great for braking up clayey material that you shovel into the hopper.
The top hopper is fully adjustable so you can flaten it out to hold the material longer so the water jets can really nail the clay to totaly brake it down. You then have to pull the washed material out with the shovel but that involves only a wipe with thw blade. For material that isnt clayey you can steepen the hopper & the washed material will fall out on its own.
This little unit was made to be back packable into remote spots & mountain stream areas. It is powered by a little 2 hp 2 stroke that is small & light to transport & a tank of gas last for a few hours as it runs on start up idle only. This creates enough water pressure in the jets to pulverize any clay.
These photos are of its maiden run on our local river that has very fine gold.





Riffle action



Unit folded down for transporting.



I have also tried a large expanded mesh as a riffle system on its own. This works well for fine gold where a gentler flow of water is requied so you dont wash the finer gold right through but allows the waste material to wash on out & not get caught up in behind a bigger riffle set up. Naturaly you need stronger water flow to wash through bigger waste material & this increases the risk of loosing finer gold. Notice how there is only black sand concerntrates to pan out & very little other material.







[

  
kiwijw
22:25:27 Sat
Feb 28 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,



Result for 1.5 hours. Not even half a tank of gas.



I have also attached a removeable ply board to the hopper so I can run my 2" suction nozzle set up for cleaning up crevices & bedrock in & near the river or large puddles.









Result for a couple of hours.



Happy golding

JW

  
Vance_in_AK
23:18:50 Sat
Feb 28 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Great posts & welcome to the forum KiwiJW:welcome:
Nice banjo. Any pics with the normal riffle system & no water running? I'd like to see the riffles & classifier.
My favorite way to play is a highbanker/dredge combo, & I love homebuilt stuff.



---
Vance in AK
PS119:72. The law of your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver pieces.
 
 
dredger
05:21:54 Sun
Mar 1 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Great stuff guys,I have not much time, sorry i have to run,

Short note to new guys, a lot of great concepts/ methods here from all over the world, please note, there are a lot of situations where one concept /method might be better or out pro form another other, a lot of places that you don't want to use a loud petrol motor, ( or maybe someone will shoot you, like Russia ),

Really sorry, got run, dredger.

Great pics guys.

  
dredger
04:26:30 Mon
Mar 2 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Ok, first hello Charlene, how are you, ??. Please post some threads / pics, soon, PM you soon,

hey kiwijw, :welcome: to a great forum, I agree finer gold will be lost when the suction nozzle is fitted, it seemed to me the is more volume of water and materials travelling through the sluice causing the fine gold losses, your fine gold recovery ( great pics ) show excellent fine gold recovery just washing grasses,

Hey Dan G,

First let me say thanks for ideas to make the wheelbarrow concept complete, it is a screen ect fitted on the front of the wheel barrow, :smile: I will do a diagram asap,

"""" The final stage was a P&S sluice receiving minus one eighth material. With the minus one eighth classification I was able to use a 12V pump to supply the sluice. Recovery of -100 mesh was good and I believe I was recovering what the old timers had blown through their sluices as balls of clay.
The final stage was a P&S sluice receiving minus one eighth material. With the minus one eighth classification I was able to use a 12V pump to supply the sluice. Recovery of -100 mesh was good and I believe I was recovering what the old timers had blown through their sluices as balls of clay.""".
I suggest Dan concept is just about the best proven concept for recovery of under 1/8" , materials, ( I suggest there are better methods being developed, but at this point I highly recommend new guys go with the P&S concept ) also I am thinking a wheel barrow, with screen fitted to the front of ( detachable ) wheelbarrow, which will sceen the under 1/8" method, ( with your electric pump specs,) and materials over 1/8" and under say 1" will fall into a bucket, oversize onto a pile, ??, the 1/8 to 1" in the buckets :smile:are really easy to pan down if the are properly washed and screened, ( no black sands or fine gold ,)
Ok so that is my input ,drawing to come, the wheel burrow concept, wheel barrow ,with detachable screen, sluice, under 1/8" materials and as above,electric pump, pans /buckets,
Nice and quite, breaking down dry /wet clay quickly, settling gold and b/s in the bottom of the W/B tub, alot of heavy shovelling hopefully resulting in a lot of gold, :devil:.especially using the above 1/8", meaning more fine gold, or allowing me / anyone to work/process areas where a lot of fine gold has deposited, I mean all fine gold areas,

New guys with absolutely no experience please note the pics, I suggest some points of interest ,
1, all and everything in those pics,take a good look,
2. the difference between the flows in the sluices , first sluice pic ( on legs) shows smoother muddy flow up and over the riffles, with screened slow( ish) feed rate, other pic show sluice sitting on rock, and the flow is high and not uniform as it passes over each riffles, as we know looses fines,
3, is the crevice JW is working in , pointing up stream on an angle, the upstream side of the crevice is higher then the down stream side edge, creating a possible vortex effect, which places gold more in the crevice then thrown out, ( please note, a point of my interest that i do not often see mentioned posted for the new guys , ( and I suggest be emphasized ), that is a crevice is a sometimes the best place for finding gold, " why " because as the gold passes over and falls into the crevice, we have mother nature to thank for creating a moving and welcoming bed to lay in, this is created by the movement in the crevice caused by the millions of tons of water and large rocks banging and crashing on the bedrock, , and the crevice actually opens and closes slightly and will flat ens the gold as it stinks into the crevice, I suggest each flood will supply more gold that will be forced and flattened and pushing down on the other heavier sg ,
The only problem here is my experience on my first few crevices, ( My area,ect ) most of the crevices contain or are Quartz crevices, and quartz decomposes quicker then the surrounding rock ,and they can be deep, so when I first tried to clean a crevice I went like a bull at a gate, blasting with the crevice flusher, and the suction nozzle , very quickly i found decayed quartz very deep hole, which I was flushing gold, and loosing it, ( crevices can be with fencing wire, ) down about 4 feet, and I did not have a dredge nozzle the dia a little bit bigger then fencing wire, so watch out for that one, it will make you cry,
I found the best way to clean a crevice when dredging with full vision was to carry a "long" 1' thin electrical screwdriver, long nose tweezers, two small long plastic bottles, down the front of my wet suit, using the screwdriver i would forcefully rack the top 1/2" of the crevice , depending on if I feel a soft spot, I might rack another 1/2" deeper, then turning down the pressure in my crevice flusher , I would point the crevice flusher " along " ( not down ) the crevice gently and forcibly hosing the material straight into the close suction nozzle, when or if I racked a hole, I would gently suck up all loose material, and only work or continuing to rack the crevice from the hole to the ends of the crevice, and so to be the quickest method known and used by me,
4, being I would follow JW's crevice ( angle ) into the river flow, to dredge it, :devil:gold looks good size considering it was removed from a crevice fairly high up possible indicates alot more water when in full flood, so I would follow the bedrock moving to under the flow the gravel bed, perhaps 20 feet from the rock, and be specially looking for an old crevice full of really old and hard packed materials ( no bullets or iron ) the the current river flow, but not really effected by the flow, with or by current river flow and gold passing over it, good stuff there,if ya lucky. ha.
5,is gotta run, back asap.great thread guys,
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 04:31:34 Mon Mar 2 2009]

  
kiwijw
10:06:48 Tue
Mar 3 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Hi guys & thanks for the welcome, You have a great site here & it is a pleasure to be part of it. I have been a member for a while but these are my first posts.

Vance, here are some pics of the banjo during construction.

Close up of the riffles. The riffles are actualy sitting on top of the old sluice box that I made years ago & choped in half & used to make the top hopper & bottom sluice box for the banjo.








The classifier screen I made from a thick sheet of aluminium that I pain stakenly drilled the holes into while watching crap on tv.





Ribbed rubber matting at head of sluice box



Happy golding

Regards

JW




  
kiwijw
10:33:14 Tue
Mar 3 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Hi dredger, Yer the secret in my experiance of fine gold recovery is pre classification of the material & to only have enough water flow to just move the unwanted material down & out the box. This is where the banjo is great as with the motor/pump on start up idle only it gives enough water pressure through the jets to brake up clay & other material but also enough water to flow over the riffles so they can do there job & wash unwanted material out.
If the gold is real fine then I use the large expanded mesh as riffles on there own & flaten the bottom box more so the water flow down the box is more gentle & with the mesh it allows the waste material to still carry on down the box easily in the lesser flow & still allow the fine gold to settle out with out getting washed right through.
The suction nozzle of course requires a lot more water pressure from the pump to create the suction in the nozzle & hence puts a stronger flow of water down the short box of the banjo & not so good for fine gold recovery. Could always add another section of sluice box to the end of the banjo's box & even have it flaring wider to its outlet so the water pressure & velocity is droping (like a flare on a dredge) all the time as the material carries on down & out the box, giving the fine gold time to settle out before being washed right through & back into the drink.
I will rat out some pics of a mates box that he made for fine gold recovery with a 5" suction nozzle set up powered by a 5 hp honda. Worked bloody well.

Happy golding

JW

  
dredger
23:27:21 Tue
Mar 3 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

hey JW,

Great post there mate, excellent workmanship, I agree basically with everything, but , I keep asking my self " what about the fine to super fine that must be travelling with the "chunky gold "", there must be ""some fines there, "" ????. there,

mate, I am with you, I think you / we would get a lot more gold if you screened both chunky and fine , also with a chunky sluice and a fines sluice,???, at least with a twin screen /twin sluice, all would know what we could be loosing,

Just a little modification, and attaching ,
,
testing, I hope you don't mind me using your pic.
[1 edits; Last edit by dredger at 23:40:07 Tue Mar 3 2009]

  
dredger
06:53:52 Wed
Mar 4 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Water Flow controls how much water is running in the top fines sluice, a suggestion for the new guys would be try for 1/8" screen size and follow P/S spec, mesh and mat,

lots more to talk about JW but sorry, bussy as ,so I hope you don't mind if just jump into posting bit s of info that are building up in my head, :confused:blar,blar.

Ps, thanks for posting the good pics and info, I am with you, and can't wait for the new pics, Please start a new thread on them, as too many pics slows up a long thread, thanks again,

For the new guys ,

I would suggest some lines of thought of mine, that is when considering classification and sluice sizes and riffles and mesh sizes, Vortexes, V=D/A, ect,
I focus on some factors that are often conveyed with certain lines of thought ?? that I have heard or read,, which are in fact correct but "not complete",
,
V+D/A, or vortex = diameter / acceleration , what is a vortex, ( for the new guys,) a vortex centrivical /centrifugal Specific Gravity Concentrator, and that's about ALL YOU MIGHT HEAR ABOUT IT, ??no more info, really, So the line of thought i would like to add here, or really to focus on is that the formula, V=D/A, formula is very specific and correct when" applied " the correct way, to a fairly specific " range of SIZE and SPECIFIC GRAVITY MATERIALS",

Meaning to recover both gold shown in the pans above ,chunky and fine, two or at least two sizes of V=D/A are required to "comply with the formula " when processing fine, as wellas processing courser/chunky gold, at the same time,in separate sluices to be efficient,

Another point which i suggest is relevant is "bedding armouring", this is naturally caused by the energy and velocity of a flow of water, which will at a constant flow cause small and smaller stones to pack in the gaps left by other stones, please note that this also requires " time " and is most relevant to the amounts of materials passing over them, ( same as feed a sluice ), gold will easerly climb/walk/travel over gravels that are armoured, ( which explains "why gold will travel " down a river for long distanes, as to the time or more specifically the amount of materials processed, and the size of the processing unit, so, I suggest any new guy get used to the feel of poking a handy thin stick into the gravels before and after the vortex, to check for hard packing, a solution is, i would slow the pump to idle, with very little flow in the box, then runrack a stick across the packed areas, "quickly "to disturb the packed layer on the top layer, and then slowly increase the throttle / pump slowly , so as to not flush gold to the next sorting area / vortex area, ( some poor old memories and experiences are, a, 1, memory of the ( excellent " Randy Clarkson ", tests on gold recovery, where he said ( form memory thats failing quickly, )

Sorry got run , note to self , points of interst "live crescent/sorting area", and something else i hope i remember before tomorrow, O,O, pic of JW dredging while dredge is turned off, old story,

  
kiwijw
09:21:32 Wed
Mar 4 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

G'day Dredger,
We all know it is pretty much impossible to have the one set up that will recover all types of gold or even deal with the all types of material that harbour the gold. All you can do is have gear that you can use that have easily interchangeable riffle systems, able to change the slope or pitch. Be able to change mattings, Slow water flow. Speed water flow etc. For fine gold recovery you could always go back to having a polished copper plate coated with mercury like the stamper batteries of old or the black sand beach boxes of old with cordroy & the amalgamated copper plates.
Once you know an area & what type of material you have to deal with & the type of gold you will be recovering then you use a system that is suitable for that location.
I feel the banjo is a perfect, easy all round system for quite a few different modes of operation & gold & material types. It has ease of transporting & operating weather you are shoveling into it or running it as a suction recovery system.
I will just show you this picture again of the fine gold I recovered very easily from our local river by shoveling black sand streaks that were left high & dry above the normal river flow after a major flood. This gold is not natural alluvial but gold that was lost by the hundreds of stampers that emptied there waste tailings into this river system before the cyanide method of gold recovery was first trialed (successfuly) in the late 1800's on a commercial scale just up stream of this spot. This is pretty fine gold in any bodies language & I would have to say that only beach gold would be finer.



I had some more pics I was going to put up but photobucket is having a site maintanance period so I will try again tomorrow night.

Happy golding all

JW :smile:




  
dredger
23:35:28 Sat
Mar 21 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

back soon, dredger.

  
Zooka
05:04:16 Thu
Mar 26 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Thought I would add in a clay-busting concept i came up with for banjo-highbankers a while back. It allows you to adjust angle etc as does Kiwi's, and also to work the material until it is clean, and allows you to agitate it by hand, and to adjust the amount of available screen to keep from surging too much material at once. It's a dumping hopper:


You dump in a shovel of clayish material, and shake it up if you need to. When the jets and shaking have pretty well washed the oversize, just dump it. Like this, thoough these pics show it mounted on a tower-style highbanker i was working on at the time:


You can also adjust the amount of screen available with a sliding plate, and tilt it up and brace it for processing low-clay materials.

Mount it sideways over your stream sluice in the water, pour water in by hand like a rocker box of old, and have a controlled feed of classified gravel in a hand operation.

Here it is mounted over a LeTrap sluice:


Food for thought, I hope!

-Z
[1 edits; Last edit by Zooka at 05:07:10 Thu Mar 26 2009]

  
dredger
02:57:21 Tue
May 12 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Sorry Guys,

When I last posted, ( actually , few days later ), I expected to go bush , move my machines to another property, and do some digging, I am still waiting for that to happen, which has given me time to ponder on the hole wheel barrow idea,
Please note, my line of thought is considering the "great " machines pictured above, Thanks guys, I would like to focus on several points at this time, ,
1, I hope to do some digging and get some samples,
2, carry out the dig using a method , focused on AND FOR the new guy with a family type wagon ( perhaps with a tow bar, ) with MINUM $ outlay, hopefully good pay,
3, also focusing on a particular area ( which i think could be found in many countries, where the above motorized concepts are a bit noisy, and attract tooooo much attention from idiots,
4, is focus on leaving little of no " enviro foot print " , which leaves the locals with the impression of not really being be able to find where or how much a problem a guy with a wheel barrow is or can be,
5 , is "CAN " a wheel barrow concept simulate the actions of a gold pan, and quickly settle " all " the gold into /onto the Bottom of a wheel barrow tub, the same as into the bottom of a gold pan, please think BIG gold pan, ??,
6, this method ( I hope ) might use less then 2-3 x 5 gallon river creek water,a day , or bring your own water,
7, absolutely no dirty water returned to any creek/river flow, no mess no winging,
8, Main Cost to new guy first up, would be cheap metal spun gold pans and 3-4 good quality preferably s/s sevies, ( gold pans come and go, so 2 cheap metal pans will work for now, good quality service is a good future investment, treated with respect they last for years, and are repairable if you get the sevies that have the screen mesh pressed in alloy surround, ), beg or borrow wheel barrow recycle 8 x 5 gallon plastic buckets, and find 4 x 40 gallon plastic tubs, shovels , and pick/gloves, 5' crowbar is good as apick for loosening river gravels,
9, I have a metal tub barrow , but i think I might like a plastic tub, which i am thinking of welding in some plastic " stingers ", 2' wide 3/4 ' high 2' ?? long strips of plastic length ways along the barrow bottom inside, something to do with shaking /moving the barrow side ways,and settling the gold beside along the stingers, ??,:confused: however I will ponder that some, more,
!0, the object of this method will be to ( on site ) eventually pan out all bigger gold, and bring home a few buckets of under 1/2 mm cons for later separation at home,
11, also focus on bring home all ultra fine gold, and not loosing any by running it in fast flowing water,

Ok, got that out, so for now, ( few more points of interest to come, ) I will submit,, please remember the " For Sale " sign is up on the current property, and i will have to act quickly, disappear for a few weeks,little computer access,



  
dredger
06:00:06 Mon
May 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Sorry Z, very nice little clay buster , mate, thanks for pics,

Guys, for sale sign has produced some interest on the property, perhaps, maybe, in 3 weeks I will be leaving for a few weeks in the area, so I have been thinking about getting ready , ??,
First I will load or shovel into the barrow, perhaps 2/3 full for each spot test, ( perhaps a bucket of water, ) also use a fork type hoe, to agitate the gravel and work the bigger rocks to the top for removal, I suggest the fork will also help to settle the gold pretty quick,
Next is " How ' to use a barrow in a similar manner to a gold pan, so , focusing on the operating method of a gold pan first,
1, shaking down the heavies,( slid ways , back to front, circular motions ). gravels covered with water,
" in between "
2 , back washing the lighter materials by slowly dipping the pan below water level,back washing lightest materials off.
So that is a 1,2,1,2,1,2, motions until there is more gold then black sands, then the process / method slows right down trying separate the last of it,
Method 1, in a wheel barrow, " shaking down the heavies,( slid ways , back to front, circular motions . ect ). gravels covered with water ", should not be hard using the rubber tyre against a rock, along with both barrow handles, ect
Method 2, "" back washing the lighter materials by slowly dipping the pan below water level,back washing lightest materials off."". meaning the barrow will have to go into the river/creek is too hard, so I will be first using Method 1, then gently tipping the barrow up until some of the water runs out, without disturbing the the gravels, then I will attempt to " ?? Dry scrap " the lighter materials back and out of the mouth of the barrow, not back washing , actually bulk back scxxx until i can "see " gold, ( I will try a 12" x 3" square plastic as a scraper, and I will take or have a " cement trowel " as well, ), I will scrap and direct the lighter materials into a tub, ( which will be later tested "until" i am happy I am not loosing any gold, ), continuing to scrap through the black sands containing some visual gold, and direct those into another separate tub or bucket, until I am left with a small amount of black sands left in the bottom of the Plastic barrow tub, at that point i will scrap the black sands back in the tub to get a good visual on if or how much gold is there, ( tilt the barrow back to drain dirty water ), once I have a good visual the remaining b/s and gold is scraped and flushed into the main concentrates tub or bucket, please note further processing/concentrating/classifying will be required on those concentrates in the buckets, but I suggest the barrow concept will be faster and process more cub yds per day, as well as providing fast 2/3 full wheel barrow sampling /testing to locate the " Tail " of the run of flood gold,
The spot or location I have chosen for the test, is what we call a ringa, that means I have seen over 60 oz / 30+ years removed from this gravel bed, and I know it replaces good gold in floods, due to the supply of gold from several ( LARGE ) sources, which i hope to " highlight "for the new guys, using some Google Earth Pics, and some topographical maps, new guys should note, I hope to show locations, I should have looked for gold :confused:, when I first started looking for gold, new guys should also note, my location, and the fact that this area was a major gold field and has had a great deal of mining, my focus will be on the gold lost and disturbed by the old timers over some roughly 4 miles of creek, as well as an area that was very very rich sources, and gold loss by 2 stamper battery mining operations on very rich hard rock mining locations, , and on natural erosion over the last ?? 200 years,
Another line of thought is could this be a " one man wheel barrow operation ", ??. I think so, with some small mods to the barrow 2 legs, working on that, my first test will hopefully have two operator/diggers, but I think a father /son/family combo would also work well,

Sorry gotta run,


  
aumbre
15:26:13 Mon
May 25 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

I like the concept of the puddler barrow for mining and sampling. The tub could be modified to a bowl type shape with a 3" tap and plug on the bottom and all the bottom/ heavy fines discharged into a tub or sluice hopper. (thinking of the Grizzley Pan). Will need handles and wheels re-positioned to get the right type of sloshing motion and a grate to keep large rocks from plugging up the tap. A "mud hoe" can be used to puddle material and scrape out large rocks. More later.
[1 edits; Last edit by aumbre at 15:27:37 Mon May 25 2009]

  
dredger
04:03:36 Fri
May 29 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Hey Aumbre,

Sounds good mate, maybe a screw type orga valve, just turn the handle to get the concentrates you want, , :smile:. I agree " the right type of sloshing motion ", works at breaking up any clay, and settling the gold,

Anyway, I was focusing on a new guy getting a ordinary unmodified plastic wheel barrow, and getting some good bulk concentrates, using the barrow as a big pan to just bulk re concentrate, ,actually i am planning on " not having a pan " on site, I will take the cons home for further processing,and I will hand pick all the chunky stuff, ( makes me feel better to get some gold in the pocket as I am digging, ).as well as a good visual of what gold is in the cons, I suggest that leaving the cons for when I get home will result in more gravel processed per dig, , resulting in more gold,:devil:, I am also asking my self, if I can dig/concentrate more dirt overall / per hour, compared to a high banker concept, please note, in the High banker concept, the cons are usually panned out progressively, my intention will be to visually confirm and concentrate on site and pan out or sluice ?? say 4 x 5 gallons of cons at home ",

Also for the new guys , I went to the local gold shop yesterday to find that the state mines dep is some 8 months behind in printing old books/ topo maps, ,:confused:. so I will not be able to post pics of topo maps with the google earth pics that am preparing to post , my line of thought is to show the sources of gold that are shedding to where I am Planning to test, I do believe this hole area has been well worked by the old timers, but please note ( for the new guys, ), I will be focusing on a small area where I know the shedding gold from old diggings and gold they missed is concentrated in " the main run" , with a google pic, then with further google pics to show the gold sources, and some info about the sources, ect,

Back soon, dredger,

,

  
dredger
01:34:35 Fri
Jun 5 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Very interesting,

I have a few ideas to share,

I would suggest shovelling full shovel " loads " ( 5 Kg not 2 Kg,) ( I am only guessing, ) into a wheel barrow instead of a beach box concept to concentrate those materials could be quicker using the barrow concept, ??. perhaps even twice the materials shovelled/ processed each hour, ??, I suggest or guess either in a one man or two men operation they would dig more pay gravel beach sands situation, also please note my line of thought is beach sands would be better and faster to puddle then river rocks, ( just guessing ), no motor /water pump required, ??.no , down time moving foot valves as the tide comes in , or goes out, ??, no, fast running water supply to wash out fine gold, then those cons transferred to =Using a dredge/highbanker combo recirculate water from the hole via the suction tube through the highbanker with the discharge dumping back into the hole. and The gold that escapes the sluice would probably be recirculated and possibly trapped the second time around, ??.

On the other hand , for a basically a high speed materials handling, one man operation, ( and ATV with BIG ATV trailer/ vac dredge /puddler )

" puddler idea at Nome",
"suction tube",
"The hole " operation " would gradually move along the beach ",

No,
The method currently used on the beach is pump water from the tidal water to the highbanker and discharge the water onto the beach where it flows back out to the tide/ocean.
No,
The way it looks to me is that you could dig a hole on the beach to bedrock and pump ocean water into the hole.
No,
high banker combo ,
No ,
Having to stop to clean High banker combo,
No,
need for running/ gold flushing water supply, ( very important ),
No,
shovelling,
No,
Or far less loss of fine gold,
No,
long lengths of hose,
Yes.
lots more cons to process,hopefully more gold,
Yes,
Bigger engine, 13-25hp, mega suction compared to a 8" river dredge, perhaps " capable of the 4- 5 times the velocity of a good 8" river dredge, "in the suction tube ", ( under 1" beach materials screened perhaps under 1/2". ?? ),

Diagrams and more bla/blar coming, :devil:,
dredger,


  
dredger
01:48:33 Fri
Jun 5 2009

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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,



,
testing,

  
dredger
06:00:54 Fri
Jun 5 2009

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2604 posts
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Re: puddler/ concentrator concept,

Ok, just want to focus on the main function of beach mining, "shoveling or recovering the pay gravels",
1, being the sands covering the pay gravel layer,
2, being the pay gravel layer,
3, being the bed rock / hard pan layer that is under 2, pay gravels,
4, is assuming layer 1, light Sg beach sands have been removed /shoveled to the side, layer 2 containing the pay gravels , ( small rocks, heavy black sands, gold, Pts Pbs,ect ) can then be shovelled onto the screen/ beach box, perhaps half shovels, perhaps 3 -5 second passes / rhythm, minute divided by 5second = 12 half shovel at perhaps 2-3 kilograms, perhaps a 5 gallon bucket per minute, ( half shovels ), suggesting that a beach box could process a 5 gallon bucket of materials in one minute, ( i am guessing ),5 gallons a min, x 60 minutes = 300 buckets, problem here is time lost finding pay gravels , when the pump has to be moved, beach box moved ect ,ect,

Next pic shows high speed materials handling under 1" screened materials " suction head " ( only ) , Attached to suction tube/hose, ( please note at this point i will not refer to the pump / puddler ect , until later, with diagrams, please focus on " that " the suction or very high velocity in the suction tube /hose of air/ dry and wet /water materials is very possible, provided it or you is are quick, and keep ya toes out of the nozzle,
,
5, shows suction head, with handle attached at base, ( bit like a push lawn mover with the blades/ motor and wheels attached, ) 3" to 4" flexible clear ribbed hose attached, please note, just out of drawing is suction hose valve, this valve directs the suction " into " the head, or allows unrestricted flow up the suction pipe hose,
6, is the vacuum is directed into the head, and begins to suck water and fine under 1" materials into the or along the suction hose, I would suggest the suction in the head be diverted after some 3 seconds, ( all materials in the hose would continue up the hose, suction on the head to the gravels and water in the bottom of the hole, so again I am guessing, 3 seconds of suction in the head , would suck up one 5 gallon bucket of under 1" materials ( regardless of their Specific Gravity ), and say another 2-3 x 5 gallons of salt water, resulting in a 20 -25 gallon storage area, in each of the cyclonic concept recovery ?? bins, x2 , both identical , total storage volume equal to say 5 x 5 gallon buckets, so that is a 3 second suction time, 3-4 " hose, 3 buckets of sand /pay gravels / and some of the hard pan or loose bed rock and salt water, ,

Another idea at this point is to dump the contents of the bin immediately, on to a say " a vibrating/moving table " lined with a rubber surface, and sides, the idea is in about 6 seconds the lighter materials will move down the table quickly and the gold ect, will hang back on the rubber to " give " a visually idea of how much gold was in that 3 second suck, just a quick look to each sample, before it drops into the puddler concept, I also think the salt water ,( perhaps 2-3 buckets ) could be syphoned off as the bin/s fills with materials, please note this is not a constant sucking of materials concept, the suction would be diverted from the suction head while moving the suction head, forward or backwards or side ways, or to where ever the vibrating/shaking table is showing good gold /black sands, 6 seconds. ??.
,

testing,


  

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