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overtheedge
16:29:05 Tue
Mar 1 2011

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Re: A book for Buddhist miners?

And I always remember that book reviewers run everything through their personal bias sieve. The greater their biases, the more biased the review.

The review becomes questionable when the reviewer just can't stop reviewing. Perhaps a review for every time you read it? But if it is so questionable, the question then becomes, "Why continue reading it?"

Write your own book. I'd read it.

  
Steppegold
17:47:38 Tue
Mar 1 2011

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A Book for Everyone

Geowizard, thanks for publicising the book so energetically. You have certainly boosted the interest and ensured that the readership will be more than expected.



  
Steppegold
18:01:39 Tue
Mar 1 2011

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The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Returning now to the title of this thread.

Yesterday got off to a promising start in getting the Book on sale on internet as a downloadable PDF.

Using my company VISA card, I opened an account first with PAYPAL in order to receive payments, and then with Cerizmo in order to have fast downloads from California.

Then it fell apart.

PAYPAL informed me that I could only use my PAYPAL account for SENDING money, and not for RECEIVING money, which was not exactly what I had in mind!

This then tripped a robot at Cerizmo to block my account.

Cerizmo definitely remains the goal, as they do fast downloads, are based in California which is good enough for most downloaders, and give free 500 MB storage space for stuff ready to download automatically to PAYPAL purchasers.

Then just as I was figuring out how to solve this hiccup, Chimee ended up in hospital for observation for 5 days, and then the place was swarming in police as a guy had been murdered during the night on the stairwell of our apartment block, and our household were the last to see him alive. All a bit traumatic.

Everything is now on hold until Chimee comes out from hospital and we find a way to use Cerizmo properly.

I suppose it will be a week or so.

cheers for now.

Steppe




  
Tom_Twosocks
18:10:36 Tue
Mar 1 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

My prayers are with you and your family for a speedy recovery

Tom

  
Lonetree
03:00:50 Wed
Mar 2 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Steppe,

I receive payments everyday in my paypal account. If you have any questions I would try to help if I could.

Jim

  
Jim_Alaska
03:15:53 Wed
Mar 2 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

We get payments from paypal also. I think it takes two separate accounts, one for sending money and another for receiving it.



---
Jim (Alaska)
Administrator
Jim Foley's Alaska
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
Steppegold
07:35:35 Wed
Mar 2 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Thanks Jim and Jim...
Right, but my company is based in Mongolia, where PayPal only allows us to SEND but not RECEIVE USD. I had not realised that before. Its silly really, as Moneygram, VISA and Western Union allow both ways. But Cerizmo is designed only for PayPal.

I'll solve it soon. Meanwhile it gives yet more time to polish the text and insert more pics!

Thanks

Steppe

  
Steppegold
21:02:37 Wed
Mar 2 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

The one-way PayPal officially applies to Mongolia and a bunch of other countries, so it a lot of red flags being raised.

"I hope you will come out with a version of your book that is pro mining and that doesn't have an environmental agenda."

Such a book would be 50 years out of date, would be laughed at by the mining industry, scare the public and fuel the anti-mining lobby.

The book seeks to strike a balance between mining and the environment. It will therefore annoy well-meaning folk such as your good self that want to do mining without much environmental restriction, and annoy well-meaning folk in their millions who mistakenly think all mining is nasty and bad.

If the book annoys both extremes in equal measure then I guess it will have been pitched about right.

I hope that the book will help peel away the middle ground from the entrenched positions of vocal powerful extreme anti-mining greens.

Yes the book will upset many miners who are proud of their efforts, skill and experience, see no need to change, and are conservative to new ideas. Unfortunately they put the entire placer industry at risk of closure, as has happened overnight in Mongolia due to gold miners using mercury, burying topsoil, using huge static wash-plants, failing to recycle water, releasing slurry into rivers, losing tons of gold by inefficient sluices, double-treble-quadruple handling material creating what look like war zones, failing to put back topsoil, leaving open shafts by the thousand... ...and so on. In draconian regulations, the Government shut them down in a blanket ban that has also shut the handful of placer gold miners who profitably used mobile wash-plants, recycled water carefully, rear-cast waste instead of side-casting, minimise trucks, avoid big dozers, replaced topsoil and vegetation continuously during mining, and so on.

In short, Geowizard, it is definitely a pro-mining book, and sets out how placer gold mining can be expanded considerably by using efficient modern mobile methods. Good eh?

Steppe





  
GarryM
22:03:07 Wed
Mar 2 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Steppe,

I wish you and your family well. I look forward to being one of your first customers.

Garry

  
SamBurgin
13:17:38 Thu
Mar 3 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

I never knew upon which side of the BAT argument I fell, until I read, and thought about, the tone and tenor of this thread.

Allegedly, insanity has been defined as the expectation of doing the same task over and over, and getting different results. That's where many of us are now; this battle has been lost folks, it's over. Period. Stick a fork in it. It is much easier to lobby against environment legislation than it is to repeal it. That train has left the station.

The new face of mining is a green face. The only thing left to do now is to decide what kind of input our side wants. It is clear what will happen if we spend our efforts trying to get the genie back into the bottle.

Geowhiz, I get your argument, but the mining community has to change the way we approach these issues. Apparently, we are not looking for middle ground either

Sam

  
SamBurgin
17:42:56 Thu
Mar 3 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Absolutely!!!

Mining is essential, there simply is no substitute for it. Eventually, even the Sierra Club will acquiesce to the fact that some mining must take place, even Washington will realize the regulations must be eased, all-the-while, our worthless legislators will waffle back and forth on the fence trying to garner the most financial gain from the lobby du jour.

The question then becomes, what is the mining industry, that's us, going to do in the meanwhile?

We have environmental policies in place now, and no money to pay for enforcement, therefore, we have no enforceable policies. Yet, the mining industry in the US is still acting responsibly, I believe.

Simply put, there is no good way to pick up a turd, both ends are equally reprehensible. There has to a way to accommodate both ends of the argument, without stinking up the place.

Sam

  
SamBurgin
22:22:07 Thu
Mar 3 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Okay, so we agree in principle that mining is good, and necessary.

This is where I tell you I'm confused. I'm confused.

We all seem to understand fiscal responsibility, parental responsibility, and the other things in this world that a person should do, so why is pushing environmental responsibility in a 1700+ page tome an issue? Assuming, that is his agenda. I don't know yet, but I will.

Every media element on earth is agenda driven; by the writer, the editor, the owner, the sponsor, the network, or the lobbyist. Even this forum is agenda driven.

Why is this particular publication in your crosshairs?

Like I said, I'm confused.

Sam

  
SamBurgin
01:18:55 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

"It reinforces the understanding that environmental rules can and should be imposed on industry."

Are you saying that environmental rules should not be imposed on the mining industry?

I understand how agenda creep can change an existing paradigm, but surely everyone in the industry recognizes that no rules, no regulations, and no awareness of environmental responsibility, isn't good for anyone, especially the mining industry.

A published report will not alter my opinion, no more than your initial, and subsequent, responses did. What did happen, was a new conversation began, a new way to look at a current issue, which is a win-win for me.

As the cloud of confusion lifts from around me, I am reminded of what a teacher once told me: You can't begin to understand your own argument until you understand the other guy's argument.

Give the industry a little credit, we're smarter than perhaps you may think. All information is good, not necessarily correct nor helpful, but part of the fabric that helps us make up our own minds.

Sam

  
growler
16:16:49 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Thwack, Geos arrow hits bullseye, thwack Geo splits first arrow in half. Spot on man. jimmy

  
kringle_mining
16:18:17 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Wiz,
Then you just move on and find an investor that allows dozers and dump trucks.....problem solved.

I have a buddy that has a gold mine down in Peru. Up in the Andes, up near the ozone in a third world province of that country. He is adament about employing miners with the shovel and 5 gallon bucket brigade. He pays them twenty dollars a day and they call him "Hefe". They feed their families with their take home pay and he will eventually turn a profit by producing ounces of Au with little overhead due to not having a dozer, excavator and diesel costs.

  
Steppegold
21:02:12 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Nice post Kringle.

Growler, about trucks and bulldozers...

DUMP TRUCKS

Dump trucks are very expensive. If possible trucks should be minimised and if possible eliminated by the miner in order to maximise profits and efficiency.

TRUCKING OF PAY GRAVEL - trucking of pay gravel to a wash-plant can be completely eliminated. This is easy if the wash-plant is fully mobile, and therefore keeps up with the mine face. Loading the wash-plant hopper DIRECTLY is the way to make profits and be efficient on capital investment, operating costs (fuel, labour, spares etc). Truck salesmen sell trucks but generally know nothing about mining. Some miners believe that trucks are essential for taking pay gravel to the wash-plant. Instead, the wash-plant should be taken to the pay gravel.

TRUCKING OF OVERBURDEN - this can be minimised, if the wash-plant is fully mobile, for then the trucking distance to the rear of the advancing washplant is short and profitable. In other words, the overburden is backfilled in a short trucking or conveyor movement, and the same for the topsoil.

BULLDOZERS

Large dozers are very expensive to buy or to operate.

DOZING OF PAYGRAVEL - dozing of pay gravel to a wash-plant is great fun but not necessary at all if the wash-plant is fully mobile.

DOZING OF OVERBURDEN - dozing of overburden is not necessary unless the overburden presents special problems such as being frozen solid. Dozing of overburden to the sides (sidecasting) looks impressive and cheap but demands wasteful double-handling as the dumps are usually smoothed or put back. Sidecasting is best avoided to make profits, and dozers are woefully inefficient at rearcasting as they cannot be profitably used for shoving material a long distance.

SMALL DOZERS - one small dozer is a good idea for final contouring of overburden and spreading topsoil, and that's all.

MOVING OF TAILINGS

MOVING OF OVERSIZE TAILINGS - dumps of washed oversize can become a headache with a static wash-plant, even burying the wash-plant. Such dumps are easy to push aside with a bulldozer, or trundled away with a front-end loader for instance. Conveyoring is also useful. But the cost, not to mention the chaos of doing this is expensive and can be completely avoided if the wash-plant is fully mobile. Then rather than a washplant getting encased in oversize, a trail of washed oversize is left behind the washplant as it advances and the trail is buried with backfill material. There is therefore no need to move the oversize. That's a useful saving on equipment, manpower, fuel, spares etc.

MOVING OF UNDERSIZE TAILINGS - a static wash-plant releases slurry at a single point. This presents problems that of course can be solved but at a cost. The wash-plant can be raised on a mound so that the fan of tailings cannot overwhelm the wash-plant. Creating the mound costs time and money, and trucks/dozers etc that deliver pay gravel to the hopper now require more fuel, time and maintenance as they now have to crawl up a ramp to feed the wash-plant on its mound. Alternatively or additionally, the fan of tailings can be regularly moved out of the way, using for instance a front-end loader, dozer or small dragline. This rips profits off your bottom line. Meanwhile the vital pond that doubles up as a settling pond and reservoir for process water is always being threatened with being choked. Clearing out a pond by small dragline, dozer, scraper etc is of course an option but again rips profit out of your bottom line.

KEEP IN SIMPLE

Growler, have a look at information on New Zealand placer mines. The Kiwi method uses a hydraulic excavator to drag along the fully-mobile wash-plant and the hydraulic excavator feeds the wash-plant directly. Trucks are not used for this. Other excavators remove the overburden and topsoil and a shuttle of a couple of trucks are all that is required to backfill the excavation (I call it rearcasting). A small dozer is used to spread the topsoil. There is no double-handling of material. The wash-plant has a rear-stacker conveyor and this disposes of the washed oversize continousuly and so there is no risk of a big mound of oversize accumulating. The tailings pond is part of the mine excavation and therefore moves forward with the mining so there is no risk of the tailings overwhelming the wash-plant.

Of course many miners like to have a static wash-plant, big dozers and lots of trucks. Wash-plant manufacturers want to sell you a wash-plant asd big as possible, but lack of mobility makes it flawed. Many wash-plants that are said to be mobile are not, such as many (not all) large jig plants and many triple-run sluice-boxes. To be mobile means to be able to move it forward or sideward with the mining every few hours within a few minutes.

Try this simulation. Set up a recreational mining trommel, start it up but lock the wheels and cement it to the ground. It performs efficiently for a while but then the distance for humping pay gravel by bucket or barrow increase and you need more people, more buckets/barrows. Meanwhile you need need more buckets/barrows/people to haul away the oversize that threatens to overwhelm the trommel, and the tailings pond is now so choked with tailings that it needs more buckets/barrows/people to clear the pond.

So, its about making profits. Having a fully-mobile wash-plant that eliminates or minimises dozers and dump trucks certainly improves profits in terms of investment required, land required, capital cost, operating cost (fuel, manpower, spares, stoppages, length of season etc). Achieving high % gold recovery is part of the answer, but as is evident it is only part. And the nice thing is that, generally, Best Available Techniques (BAT) such as these not only strengthens your bottom line, it also minimises impacts on the environment by facilitating single-handling of all material including topsoil that is replaced on a daily basis.

Bulldozers and dump trucks are BAT in the constuction industry and in some types of mining, but rarely so in placer mining.

In essence, minimise dump trucks and bulldozers if you want to make decent profits in placer mining. That demands a mobile wash-plant and an appreciation of BAT. Arrows and expertise at archery are not required.

Steppe
[4 edits; Last edit by Steppegold at 21:20:23 Fri Mar 4 2011]

  
Steppegold
22:19:48 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Geowizard

Let us know when you find a better alternative to making profit at placer gold mining. That would help us all.

The book makes no reference to the stone age.

Steppe

  
Steppegold
22:36:15 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Not enough.

  
Steppegold
23:13:38 Fri
Mar 4 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

BAT - one example of how a mobile wash-plant eliminates the trucking or dozing of pay gravel, with huge $$ saving of capital and operating costs.


This is a medium-sized BAT placer mine, in Mongolia, with no trucking of placer, just one small dozer for spreading topsoil and no messy sidecasting of material...

The end result is rather nice...


This is a large-sized BAT placer mine, in New Zealand,
Notice the efficient layout with no trucking of placer, no sidecasting, no double-handling and continuous greening...


With a fully mobile wash-plant, BAT is quite straightforward and more profitable. There are, like everything else in life, exceptions depending on site-specific circumstances but these are rare.

BAT is global being mainly a matter of efficiency of digging, washing, dumping and resoiling, with the minimum of equipment, fuel, manpower, land and water, all compressed into a short season.

Steppe



  
AceHand
02:30:05 Sat
Mar 5 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Sure wish that book was out. I'm sick of our only reviewer's rant. Accusations and complaints with no alternative methods or technics is really getting old. It does no good to try to explain your side, Steppe, because Geo listens to no one except himself.
I say Geo's trying to bring an end to mining. It happened in Mongolia, is happening in California, and will happen everywhere if we simply bury our head in the sand and hope the environmental movement goes away. His only suggestion is to fight the movement. Does that mean shoot them, or just beat them up?
It's a book. Robin's entitled to his opinion. From what I've heard, I support it.
I hope Chimee's feeling better.

Tom

  
kringle_mining
03:36:40 Sat
Mar 5 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

It is a logos of placer geology but is not written in stone under "the thou thalt nots". You pick the chapter that may apply to you and decide if it it is financially affordable in the long term.....which includes reclamation.

  
baub
14:37:46 Sun
Mar 6 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Steppe, hows Chimmee ?

b

  
Steppegold
17:48:33 Tue
Mar 8 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Geowizard

Actually the book you read was only an early draft several years ago.

This led to very helpful feedback and significant changes.

The important cost savings are from REAR-CASTING not SIDE-CASTING, and from SINGLE-HANDLING not DOUBLE-HANDLING.

These factors lead immediately to considerable savings in capital cost (too many trucks, large dozers etc); and operating costs (fuel, electricity, spares, maintenance), and considerable reduction of manpower.

The mine footprint is minimised accordingly.This cuts the cost of land acquisition. It also makes rehabilitation much cheaper and faster.

Transport of placer to the wash-plant is eliminated, with immediate major cost saving in purchasing, renting or contracting trucks, front-end loaders, scrapers, large dozers etc. Instead a hydraulic excavator loads the wash-plant directly. The reduction of traffic jams and general chaos also reduces interruptions in supplying the wash-plant.

Transport of washed oversize tailings is by rear stacker conveyor directly from the trommel, and as the wash-plant moves sidewards and forwards to keep up with its excavator, there is no massive dump of washed oversize to deal with, and no risk of the washed oversize overwhelming the washplant. Therefore there is no need for dozers, front-end loaders etc to haul away the dumped oversize at all. Instead there is only single handling.

Transport of the slurry washed undersize tailings is by discharge from the sluices into the pond. As the pond is also mobile as it advances with the mine face, the pond does not get choked with fines. Therefore there is no need for front-end loaders, scrapers, dozers or draglines to keep the pond clear. A further improvement is possible if desired by adding a slurry pump to a bin at the end of the sluices to transport slurry via a pipeline strapped to the rear stacker conveyor, reporting to a cluster of hydrocylones that dump dewatered slurry (now sludge) on top of the washed oversize as soil-forming material. Cleaned water returns to the wash-plant via a pipe by gravity.

There are of course special situations where powerful expensive bulldozers are required. I've used them for ripping partly cemented paleoplacers, and for smashing frozen ground. But unless there is frozen or cemented material to be shifted then in normal placer mining large dozers are rarely cost-effective to purchase or to operate.

Trucking of overburden IS BAT, but only if SINGLE-HANDLING. This becomes possible as a mobile wash-plant allows REAR-CASTING to be short-haul. Even then, if the distance is short enough then conveyors are likely to be cheaper thna trucks and require less manpower.

The key to BAT is to switch from immobile and semi-mobile wash-plants to fully mobile wash-plants. Even if such wash-plants operate 24-7 and achieve very high gold recovery, the huge additional capital and operating costs demanded by them being unable to move forward with the mine face means that they are rarely the best option for maximising profits and minimising impacts.

As can be seen, pursuing BAT approximates to pursuing $$$
in placer gold mining.

For this good reason, placer miners have nothing to fear about BAT but everything to gain including permission, prestige, finance and above all profit and continuity.

Within a few years, IMO the placer gold mining industry will be transformed by the miners themselves voting with their feet to embrace BAT by switching to fully mobile wash-plants to gain all that follows, and the placer industry will be bigger and more confident. (Seems good to me - Ed).

Steppe

  
kringle_mining
03:41:45 Wed
Mar 9 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Permission and permit are synonymous.

  
kringle_mining
16:09:06 Wed
Mar 9 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Look around you Wiz at all the turmoil in the world. It is mostly because people don't have work to put food on the table. Better to use B A T in a third world country and put a shovel in a man's hands rather than a rifle and hand grenades. The cull is on the horizon in some of these countries and it will spill over into the G12.

  
Steppegold
19:22:14 Wed
Mar 9 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Geowizard writes, "With acceptance of steppe BAT, you won't get a permit or permission if you are using a dump truck or a Dozer.".

Everyone, please check the BAT photo and see the dump trucks are busy trucking overburden and topsoil as efficient single-handling.

Everyone, please check the BAT photo and see the dozers are busy smoothing out dumped overburden and busy spreading topsoil.

Geowizard, please do the same; agree with everyone that there are trucks and dozers in the BAT photo.




Thanks

Steppe
[3 edits; Last edit by Steppegold at 21:40:50 Wed Mar 9 2011]

  
Steppegold
22:32:45 Wed
Mar 9 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

To help everyone, here are a couple of doodles...

Here is the shuttle haul road of the BAT dump trucks - for dumping overburden and for dumping topsoil.


This is rear-casting and therefore achieves single-handling bringing considerable cost savings and minimising impacts.


Here are 4 BAT items circled:



- BAT dozer spreading topsoil on top of overburden that it has already spread on top of tailings from the wash-plant.

- BAT dump truck #1 returning to get more topsoil having dumped its load for the BAT dozer.

- BAT dump truck #2 being loaded up with topsoil being stripped by BAT hydraulic excavator #1.

- BAT wash-plant being loaded by BAT hydraulic excavator #2. This is dirt cheap to do as the BAT wash-plant is fully mobile and therefore can always be fed directly by the excavator, without any need for ever transporting pay gravel by dump trucks, bulldozers, front-end loaders, scrapers or draglines.

The round trip of the shuttling BAT dump trucks is short and quick and the topsoil is spread the very same day. The soil quality remains reasonably intact as it does not dry out and the plants, microbes and worms are shaken and stirred but still OK. There is no need for expensive storage of topsoil (double handling is expensive, and the topsoil is likely to be "lost", compacted, deteriorated and lifeless) and no need for expensive planting, as the awakened plants just grow like crazy. Green, mean, and profitable.

The round trip of BAT dump trucks allows the overburden to be dumped and spread the same day. This avoids side-casting by dozers, scrapers, trucks, draglines etc to build overburden stockpiles that later need expensive demolishing or smoothing, and then expensive hauling of topsoil followed by expensive planting. Or just leave an eyesore for Ma Nature to green over given time.

The rear-casting by BAT dump trucks means that the mine footprint is minimised to the area of land above the mineral resource, and therefore land acquisition is the bare minimum, which cuts costs and confines direct disturbance as much as possible.

Fascinating is that the most profitable method of mining in this instance, as usual, is BAT, as capital costs are cut, operational costs are cut, manpower is cut, water usage is cut, land take (footprint) is cut, rehabilitation costs are cut and aftercare is cut.

For placer gold mining, the wizardry of BAT is that by using fully mobile wash-plants the operation is more profitable and impacts are less.

Remember, the mining season is short and you don't have time or money to waste in extravagant DOUBLE HANDLING of overburden and topsoil into stockpiles and then later spreading it out again. That's a recipe for going broke. Nor does a miner have time and money to waste on needlessly dozing pay gravel, wasting time, manpower and money. Get rid of static wash-plants and invest instead in a mobile wash-plant and just fling the pay gravel in and take the gold out.
:smile:

Steppe
[4 edits; Last edit by Steppegold at 22:52:14 Wed Mar 9 2011]

  
kringle_mining
03:01:54 Thu
Mar 10 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Wiz ,
You always have the option of not buying the 2nd edition of the steppe's book and writing your own book
Call it : " The prospector's guide to Lake Front Property in Arizona"

  
Steppegold
03:04:55 Thu
Mar 10 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Good Geowizard, you now see BAT for Placer Gold Miners is win-win.

Less cost, less labour, less land.

The spear-tip of BAT are Kiwi placer miners who have been doing this for years, and the USA is still lagging behind by some miners clinging to static wash-plants.

Geowizard, have you ever seen a Kiwi placer mine? The Kiwi miners never need to transport pay gravel to their mobile wash-plants and time and again make decent money where static wash-plants fail.

Static wash-plants fed by trucks, bulldozers, scrapers, draglines and front-end loaders are fascinating to operate and amazing to watch, but are history.

The placer miners are switching to BAT methods not because of any Green Agenda but because of the desire for PROFIT. As you know, the National Business Association wants business to make profits. above all else. That's why placer gold miners who are sharp about making their mines profitable prefer BAT mobile wash-plants.

Anyway, its a matter of natural selection. Static wash-plants are shockingly expensive beasts to own and feed, and are doomed to extinction. Savvy miners are voting for BAT with their feet not to save the planet, but to fill their wallets. The book will help to fill their wallets.

"the book is a manual for miners, investors, regulators and environmentalists"... quite right. BAT is "a win-win for everybody".

The only losers will be manufacturers of static wash-plants, miners who cling to the past, and green extremists. All will have the ground cut from under their feet, by excavators feeding BATmobile wash-plants.

:devil:

Robin
[2 edits; Last edit by Steppegold at 03:08:19 Thu Mar 10 2011]

  
SamBurgin
04:19:23 Thu
Mar 10 2011

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Re: The Gold Miners Book When will it be available?

Batman and Robin, gotta love it!

Sam

  

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