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balanced_scales
17:23:55 Wed
May 20 2009

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blue bowl

has anyone used a auto feeder with blue bowl with -50 and -100 mesh gold with any succes thanks for any input














_-



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peluk
18:10:07 Thu
May 21 2009

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Re: blue bowl

If you've already familiarized yourself with the usual operation of the Blue Bowl,you know you have to rerun gold that goes over the top and down to your collection bucket.

Ideally,you want an uninterrupted circular flow.Any big changes like the introduction of material,stops the proper sorting action and you have to wait for things to settle down.

Over time,I've seen new additions to the instructions on proper use of the Bowl.My original instruction called for metering the material in with a spoon along the perimeter. Just downstream of the inflow pipe orifice worked well.It also called for the material to be periodically brushed back from the tower base to the outer perimeter.That of course disturbs the flow but it also concentrates gold at the perimeter.It would be completely thrown off by the addition of an auto feeder I would guess.

If you were just looking for an enriched concentrate it might work but it might not.The material on the bottom layer would not have access to the swirling action.If you ran it faster than you should,losses would be heavier but again you might wind up with more gold when you do clean up.Then you can pan it with no real gain accomplished.

in general,all flake goes over the top in a Blue Bowl even when run as designed.

  
LipCa
19:31:15 Thu
May 21 2009

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Re: blue bowl

I have never used a self feeder but I would expect that you could if it were fed VERY SLOW along the outside edge. That way it would not disturb the action on the bottom. Seems it would as good (or better) as "metering the material in with a spoon along the perimeter"
I know that if I had lots of cons, I would be looking at building one.


  
balanced_scales
19:49:38 Thu
May 21 2009

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Re: blue bowl

thanks its what I thought but im real new so I thougt I would ask glad to see that when i brushed back from the tower i was doing right of course I shut down to do the brush back looks like I need a shaker table way too much cost for what i get thanks alot peluk !!
thaks for your input lipca wish I had more cons

  
peluk
02:17:29 Fri
May 22 2009

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Re: blue bowl

No,I didn't shut down to sweep back from the base of the tower.I reached down into the swirling water with a solder brush.An artist's paint brush would work better.The gold is closer to the bowl bottom at that point and it leaves a richer circular burm which starts to lose waste material to the center right away.

A small cleanup sluice followed by panning of the different sizes will do very well for recovery.

  
LipCa
02:30:26 Fri
May 22 2009

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Re: blue bowl

I use a turkey baster to move mine away from the center.
Since you are new....I find that I lose about 10% of the gold down the center each time I run a batch. How many times you rerun the tailings is up to you.
I run two sizes...everything smaller than a 50 mesh and that between a 50 mesh and a 30 mesh.
I use other methods for all above 30 mesh.

  
balanced_scales
04:14:07 Fri
May 22 2009

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Re: blue bowl

thanks again for the last bit about not shuting down does shuting down cause disruption or just lost time thanks

  
peluk
18:25:28 Fri
May 22 2009

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Re: blue bowl

Shutting down means complete disruption and of course lost time.
Just get the cleanest crescent of gold you can get visible and suck it up in your vial while still running.If you've brushed back the material at the base oof the tower a couple of times and no gold is left on the floor,you can suck all that waste up in a big bulb sucker and start again with more material.

If you can't see clearly enough to suck up the gold,may as well shut down and do it.

  
balanced_scales
20:29:19 Fri
May 22 2009

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Re: blue bowl

thanks so much for the help peluk !!!!:thankyou:

  
mefolkes
06:38:37 Sat
May 30 2009

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Re: blue bowl

Geo, I know some folks swear by the Blue Bowl, but a buddy of mine bought one, and worked hard at it, and he still swears at it instead of by it. We're trying to get someone who actually has mastered it to show us how we are screwing up. Personally, I think I'll get one of the wheels.

  
peluk
19:33:47 Sat
May 30 2009

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Re: blue bowl

Some features of beach mining are becoming apparent.
1)The material is pretty much free of silt.
2)Gold specimens are very small generally.

These features make discussion of and recommendation of techniques and materials specific to beach work.

So,#1, visibilty in a Blue Bowl is more likely or at least possible.
#2,water flow in a highbanker is or can be reduced because larger rocks do not pass through the sluice bed.

Starting with clean water in the Blue Bowl is essential.Keeping it clean is very difficult or impossible.Visibilty is lost quickly.

In experimenting with the Blue Bowl,I found it can be run at a tilt with the input water port at the 6 O'clock position, or bottom of the perimeter.In so doing,gold being heavy ,will drop out of the swirling water at a position between 10 and 1 O'clock on the base perimeter.
It should be dribbled into the flow at about a 6:30-7 position if we were thinking in terms of a clock face.
It was discussed here on the Forum quite a while back

  
Oso_de_Oro
05:34:08 Thu
Jun 3 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Try dropping a drop at a time of Simple Green. It kinda clears it up nice.

  
peluk
08:22:07 Fri
Jun 4 2010

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Re: blue bowl

We covered a lot of ground fast in this Forum."We" means all participants from around the world.Steppe especially had a way of fanning the flames.
At this time of year,many of the members are out getting at it.There will be new observations and tips after every season.

For those unfamiliar with an item like the Blue Bowl,it is easy to go at it incorrectly and misuse a tried and true separator.I know many get apathetic addressing the same issue but,if you have the time and the writer can't locate the info in the archives...call it dues.Giving someone a lift is the American way and it tightens the bond.Americans need a tight bond.Gold is just something to do while we are here it seems.

Your venture is sometimes mentioned among returning miners here Geo.It has a haunting,enticing call.I hope you succeed and your mining associates do really well.

The Blue bowl is an especially good place to start to demonstrate how easily very fine gold can be lost.I'm dealing with a prospector now who just showed me pics of his cleanup from inland deposits where there is no fine gold and little black sand.He can pan a bucket of cons in a short time if he has to.

I'm saddled with flake and fines so testing and adjusting are the order of the day.The Blue Bowl will lose flake up over the top but it will be in the bucket or pan underneath.At the same time it will get powder if run patiently.It's a good piece of equipment to get a person hooked.It's also a good piece of equipment and method for fine gold recovery where safety is foremost.In other words,kids can use it without too many precautions.

This is unrelated but over the last two days I have driven 274 miles on these roads looking for a culvert taken from my claim.It was beside the road but down at the toe of the shoulder where I've had it for 3-4 years.

When I think of the loss of that culvert and the snakes that took it,I remember the words of the bartender who appears to the delusional Jack Nicholson in "The Shining".He says to Jack,as he explains his murderous overreaction,"They had to be corrected."

What the hell! Fourteen foot culverts don't grow on trees and we don't have trees to begin with.



















  
auldrider
01:05:49 Sat
Jun 5 2010

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Re: blue bowl

So, reading from the above comments on this thread, I get the following impression.

Blue bowls work OK but are only any good for small loads of highly concentrated and highly classified material.

Also that it is a delicately balanced and tuned process that takes a lot of time, precision and patience to complete successfully.

I was thinking about getting one to process and check the fines that come out of my circulating sluice system but now I think I will give the bowl a miss.

I have been throwing the mud and sludge away without really knowing if they actually contain any really fine flower gold, thought the bowl might help check it out.

Silly me!

  
peluk
04:05:29 Sat
Jun 5 2010

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Re: blue bowl

A good option would be to borrow one.To prepare your silty cons for the Blue Bowl,you could try this.Remember though,the Bowl will still separate even though you can't see through the murky water.The problem is that you have no control.You don't know what speed adjustments to make.

Note also....as the windrows left behind become richer,you'll do well to sweep them toward the outer perimeter so they can continue to separate leaving a pure gold further from the center,less vulnerable to being covered by the next teaspoon of material.Actually,it can be periodically snuffed up in a purer form
without trash if you do this.Again,visibility is required.

Ok,first off...put your silty material in a mixing bowl tilted slightly.Put a light flow from a faucet into the mix and fill the bowl stirring gently.As it overflows you can run the overflow down a sluice with corduroy in it.The silt will go on out but the corduroy will catch any light gold that may have gone over the top with the silty overflow.

What is eventually left in the bowl will be suitable for the Blue Bowl.You can always sample it at that point and see if there was gold left in that super concentrate.You'll save yourself time and you won't find yourself tossing and turning all night in a cold sweat all bug eyed and muttering.

The upside is that when you bottle it,you know what you have.It will be clean and marketable but all other down sides you mentioned have to be weighed.


  
auldrider
22:14:52 Sat
Jun 5 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Thank you peluk.

  
dredger
05:14:34 Sun
Jun 6 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Me too, Thank you for sharing peluk,

Excellent read , :smile:.

dredger.

  
auldrider
10:51:01 Mon
Jun 7 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Forgive me if this is considered a stupid question.

Has anyone that you know of ever built a scaled up blue bowl (including water supply and flow) and tried using it on proportionately larger sized concentrates?

Bare in mind that I have never seen a real one and do not even know where to get one!

I do however like the principal and would like to have the experience of learning how to use one!

  
Brian_Berkhahn
17:12:49 Mon
Jun 7 2010

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Re: blue bowl

I read on another forum that the makers of the Blue Bowl supposidly tried to make a larger version but it didn't work.. don't know how true it is but I'd like to have a larger one myself. Personally I really like mine and it works really good for me but it sure is small for the amount of con's that I get.

Geo.. now that's funny.

Brian

  
peluk
17:42:22 Mon
Jun 7 2010

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Re: blue bowl

"Strange things are done in the midnight sun,
by the men that moil for gold..."
I would like you to PM or email me Geowizard.I went looking for your posting elsewhere but I couldn't find it.
Thanks.

Auldrider,I've thought the same thing.The flow would have to be
increased.That is,water pressure would have to increase to compensate for the larger diameter.If you watch the standard Blue Bowl in operation first,then you'll have an idea how to scale up the operation.

The idea is very appealing.You could probably make a larger model using a plastic trash barrel of conical design with the opening located as in normal use,on the top. You'd cut off he upper portion.Actually,there are tubs already on the market that are low enough and of a conical design .In the center you could cut a hole and place a plastic conical shaped waste basket,inverted, with its bottom cut out.You might be able to silicon fasten it in place.

The inlet hole would be a trick so you might abandon the original hole and just lower a feed tube, with small holes in
it,down along the inside surface so it sprays a current around the inside perimeter.Now you can see,it is not the first time someone else wondered the same thing.


  
baub
04:16:38 Mon
Jun 14 2010

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Re: blue bowl

It rarely hurts to classify your cons before final processing. Better yield results.
Check with your buyer/smelter person re how "dirty" gold they will accept. Compare with your time to clean and possible losses per run thru.

b

  
Articwolf
04:19:26 Tue
Aug 17 2010

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Re: blue bowl

I have found that 2 things are neccesary for using the bowl. #1 Clasifying and using clear water in doing the the job. #2 Don't get in a hurry when getting the water going.
It's when I get in a hurry that I start losing gold over the edge. Otherwise it has worked well for me.

  
dragline
04:01:08 Wed
Aug 18 2010

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Re: Blue Bowl

Another member of the forum here, Prospect09er, posted this link on another thread. I found the video very interesting because it shows a setup that tightly controls the operations of the Blue Bowl in a way that supposedly recovers fine gold down to 50 microns (300 mesh).

Click here to go to the webpage where you can then click the play button to watch the video:
http://www.prospectingchannel.com/

The first 12 minutes and 35 seconds of the video concerns Oregon beach mining near Gold Beach. From 12:35 to the end of the video (31:49) we see a demonstration on the use of this Gold Lab concentration device that sells for $1195.00 USD. While the price tag of this Gold Lab concentrator precludes me from rushing out to buy one, I did find the video educational regarding the techniques this inventor used to control the feed and waste collection of the Blue Bowl in a way that overcomes some of the challenges, fine tuning and setup time required to capture 300 mesh gold with the Blue Bowl.

If anyone here on the forum has purchased and/or operated this Gold Lab device independently from the inventor/marketer I would appreciate your posting any feedback you might have on it.

  
dredgeguy
16:39:27 Sun
Aug 22 2010

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Re: Blue Bowl

Try looking up the Quicksand Concentrator. 8 mesh or smaller, does not need to be level and almost no feed rate restrictions.
[1 edits; Last edit by dredgeguy at 16:40:02 Sun Aug 22 2010]

  
dragline
18:41:31 Sun
Aug 22 2010

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Re: Blue Bowl

dredgeguy,

I tried looking up the Quicksand Concentrator as you suggested but could not find much of any technical information on it as a result of searching the Internet via google. The one review I saw seemed to be written by the company that sells it (and seemed like marketing hype to me).

But since you suggested looking into this concentrator I'd like to ask you more about this concentrator. Have you owned and used a Quicksand Concentrator with any success or do you know anyone that has?

dragline

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
00:17:38 Mon
Aug 23 2010

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Re: blue bowl

http://www.thegoldlab.net/
I have this system and have never found anything better at catching the real fine gold. This works best as a final cleanup tool after you have already got all of the 15 mesh and large gold out of your cons.I think this is the same system Dragline mentioned above but a more direct link.
[1 edits; Last edit by RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM at 00:22:16 Mon Aug 23 2010]

  
dredgeguy
18:47:15 Sat
Aug 28 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Hello Dragline

Yes we use it and Yes, The Quicksand is new. It employs fluid bed principles and is catching gold in Africa, South America and North America. Jeremiah in Nevada added a valve and is recovering silver and gold down to 200 mesh.

The Quicksand has been in testing for the last year and is just now coming on the market.


  
dragline
00:38:56 Sun
Aug 29 2010

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Re: blue bowl

dredgeguy,

OK, that sounds very exciting to me. When I saw the price on that Quicksand Concentrator I was dubious that it could incorporate a controlled fluid bed concentration system. Of course there is absolutely no technical information or testing data that I could find on my Internet searches on this Quicksand Concentrator.

I does appear to be a compact system and the price is definitely within reach of the average weekend miner. But I would really like to hear more from you regarding your use or testing of this device as compared to other concentrators with which you may also be familiar. I could see no detailed information on this device regarding its preclassification requirements, feed rates or throughput.

For example, the Gold Lab definitely seems to work well at the minus 150 mesh gold and with some evidence that 200 to 300 mesh gold is captured efficiently. I gathered this information not from any controlled testing data but from a single report of the device's performance in working through spent concentrates that showed an unusually fine weighted analysis. Verifiable and/or standardized testing methods have likely not performed with that Gold Lab unit either so there is really very little information published from which to draw any conclusions.

The only way to truly evaluate the relative performance of any supposed gold concentrator is after methodically testing the device under laboratory conditions where known gold sizes are added to pre-classified non-gold bearing test material and then concentrated with results analyzed to to determine the efficiency of the concentrator at each specific mesh sized gold particle. The pre-classified non-gold bearing material in this case is easy to find, black sand with all gold removed (hopefully). When the black sand is screened to 20 or 30 mesh you have a very consistent and reproducible medium in which to add known weights of gold in various mesh sizes.

The only way to fairly evaluate the performance between two competing concentration devices is to test each device under identical conditions and controls. No gold concentration device sells well without marketing hype touting that device's superior performance at recovering fine gold and yet very few of these devices make any effort to quantify the performance of their device using analytical methods that attempt to measure the performance under controlled conditions.

Many of this forum's members are extremely good at performing these tests utilizing standardized analytical methods and I would be very interested to hear whether or not any competent technical evaluation of this Quicksand Concentrator device has been performed. These tests are not that difficult or time consuming to perform when done by a competent independent evaluator.

Can you tell me anything technical about this Quicksand Concentrator or do you have any links to technical information, drawings or testing data online?

dragline

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
01:01:36 Sun
Aug 29 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Dragline, Like you I am always interested in new innovative products that work. Unfortunately a very high percentage of them are better designed to separate the miner from his money.I am very impressed with the Gold Lab. It actually does what the advertisement says. It gets the fine >20 mesh gold that other types of units miss. It does it very consistently and with not much fussing. However it is not useful as a primary clean up tool since it requires >20 feed. The designer of it lives in Grants Pass Or.and would be glad to demonstrate it for you.
That Quicksand unit looks interesting in the pictures but I wonder how it can handle the different sized material at the same time. My experience with fluid bed units of the past is they work well on like sized cons but are almost useless on unclassified material.

  
dragline
03:17:21 Sun
Aug 29 2010

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Re: blue bowl

Rusty Happy Camp,

Sure, we're all familiar with the gold extraction, processing and concentration devices that work in perfect accordance with their design purpose, separating the gold from the miner. Gold concentration devices come and go.

However, the Blue Bowl is a device that in my opinion has proven itself time and time again for many years. The Gold Lab is a Blue Bowl with additional features. Whereas the Blue Bowl takes some getting used to and is terribly finicky about pre-classification to one or more screen sizes. But the Blue Bowl works very well when operational variables are controlled. That's why I was impressed with the extreme controls on the Gold Lab unit. I haven't played with one like you have but I could see in the video of the operations that it kept very tight operational controls over all input variables of the Blue Bowl plus it had a clean-up style sluice on the output for recovering fine gold lost that could then be reprocessed a second time under tighter controls (less output but finer gold capture after initially recovering the larger gold at the faster settings).

I'm not concerned one bit over the requirement to pre-classify materials to less than 30 mesh before running a final concentrator. After all, we're talking about final cleanup operations subsequent to initial recovery, then followed by a cleanup sluice (a popandson type sluice). The proper place for a final clean-up shaker table, or Gold Lab, or Quicksand Concentrator (assuming this thing really works), or whatever you want to use, is after at least two recovery operations each of which would require some classification screening to exclude over sized particles.


  

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