23:54:01 Sun
Aug 9 2009
| Re: Jolls Bridge Rebolting? |
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dazzz1 07:34:15 Wed Jul 29 2009 |
If I went ahead with this no new bolts would be added on existing routes - just replacements. I haven't had anything to do with the development of the crag though, and don't I know the first ascentionists, so if anyone has any comments or objections please let me know - dgtweedie@hotmail.com Cheers, Dale |
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petey_w 08:38:57 Wed Jul 29 2009 |
I have emailed Mikl who said it was fine to rebolt any of his climbs and is happy to see bolts moved / added if a superior option was available. Paul Riviere who also put up alot of the climbs here is also fine with rebolting of his climbs / adding lower offs if suitable. I was intending to put in SS Rings/U's and possibly add some lower offs for those climbs suitable. The climbs on my rebolting list are: 1) Corosion castle, but its climbable with trad gear as it is. Still a great climb that deserves more accents, lower offs will make it a great climb to warm up on. 2) Honey I'm Late, Honey I'm Direct & B Jam, I have rap inspected the bolts and while I couldnt snap any off (with a quickdraw and a sling) I wouldn't feel comfy leading this, also there is no much chance of backing up the bolts with gear. We have spent a bit of time flying off Hang Ten and I can vouch for the bolts on it (although I haven't had a look at the top pitch) the rap station could use a bit of attention from memory. Likewise the bolts on Son of a Gun and Lethal Weapon are bomber. We have also got on Power and Glory which appears to have good bolts. We went and had a look at One Sick Puppy and Read My Lips one day but decided that the bolts looked a little bit suspect to have a go. I would definitely look at the other climbs first though as these are shortish. Unfortunately my time is a little bit tight at the moment so these things probably wont happen too soon. I would be more than happy for someone else to do the hard work - I would even provide money for bolts / glue. Definitely an underrated crag (once you know your way around). Its great to see it getting some attention lately. Pete |
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dwebster 23:54:01 Sun Aug 9 2009 |
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Cragx 09:36:24 Mon Sep 21 2009 |
 Now this isnt a dig at you so dont take it as such...more a general discussion about Jolls in general.... Jolls is in a very nice spot surprisingly so considering location to highway...but I dont understand the bolting thats gone on there....even taking in account the old school ethos.... I was reading the guide on sydney climbing site and it was this comment that I thought odd..... "Last thing - the routes here have been geared up adequately so any retro bolts appearing on established lines will be chopped pronto, no questions asked." The few climbs I got on yesterday were all in the lower grades and all had carrots (some in rather bad positions)..but alot of the harder climbs seem to have rings?? why replace bolts with carrots considering rings are already present at the crag...or is it just a grade thing? it also seems the harder climbs with suspect gear are protected more often with rings or fixed hangers were the lower graded stuff dosn't ( ie just suck it up mentality)...Im all for stout climbs provided its across the board....seems to me its more the easier stuff below possible FA's grade limits that got run out and things closer and a bit heady got a ring/fixed hanger....am I wrong? and nothing has lower offs (though Naties head does now..nice work dale) which considering this statement in the guide.... "Please treat this area with care - as you can probably imagine, because of its handy locale to the big smoke it could become quite popular and well worn" ....wouldnt lower offs keep tracks from forming up top which is were most of the public would see anyway? and save the trees up there from abuse? Like I said before first visit and just starting discussion about the area, but thats the general vibe of the place I got. |
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vwills 10:10:15 Mon Sep 21 2009 |
For more ideas: Absolute honey could do with a rebolt to replace the fixed hanger. A ringbolt there would be nice. It is very rusty and the crux is above it. It could also do with a rap station on the belay ledge (or an anchor and lower offs.) The bolts on High goose stepping action are all rusty as are the 23 and 24 to the left of chocolate coated parents, and the dodgy home made hangers on Channel Bill Cuckoo. Loweroffs or rap bolts are needed below the hollow tree above badluck silverback. I could go on! One day might try and do a bit myself..... But considering the climbs are less than 15 yrs old its all a bit disappointing |
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Cragx 10:38:39 Mon Sep 21 2009 |
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petey_w 09:35:35 Tue Sep 22 2009 |
The hard arse Caring Understanding Nurturing Type of climber only seems to exist in small pockets in the upper blue mountains these days. Natural selection will soon see them become extinct in NSW... Rings are preferred, and the minimal bolt ethic need not apply. Paul has indicated that the addition of lower-offs (where suitable) would also be preferable. |
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Cragx 21:34:57 Tue Sep 22 2009 |
Rebolting routes is expensive and TBH not much fun and for me to do it Id like the OK directly from FA before doing anything |
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Trinity333 13:16:22 Tue Sep 29 2009 |
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dazzz1 01:06:08 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
(a) I like the old school ethic of Jolls. While I like climbing at Berowra I don't want all of sydney to be bolted with that consumer approach: why not have some climbing with the extra "excitement" of getting a bolt plate on as well? This I think is more in keeping with the "traddy" ethic of the place, especially when you are placing gear as well. (b) glue in carrots (as opposed to bash in) are I think as unlikely to pull out as rings (all were put in with Ramset 801 glue) (c) Glue in carrots are less visually imposing, and also do less damage to the rock to place and remove. On the lower-offs, I agree that something else is needed at the top of Bad-Luck Slilverback. However, since the slightly run out top out of this route is a key part of the climb I think top belay bolts or rings back from the edge would be better to preserve the character of the climb, especially now that there are abseil rings. This is something I am thinking about for the next effort, but of course suggestions would be great! I'd also like to rebolt HGSA action, but would like to speak to the first ascentionists beforehand as I think an extra bolt is needed between the first and second bolt(anyone know them?). But this won't be for a little while so if anyone is keen please go right ahead! Also just to do some self-promotion myself and Dan Webster put up this new route at Jolls on the weekend: Fully Loaded Man 21 (Mixed) Start 2m right of HGSA at small crack. Up past 3 BRs to RB, step slightly left then past 2nd RB to double bolt belay (weasel exit on right side of RB about 19) (climb named in honour of the fantastic campbell's soup parody of the solo man ads: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLIIKrJ6nnI) The rings at the top do go a bit against my manifesto above I know - tend to place these when things get steep and clipping / retreating is more of an issue, plus feel I have a bit more freedom when it is my route! Cheers, Dale |
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Cragx 03:57:51 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
"rings at the top do go a bit against my manifesto above I know - tend to place these when things get steep and clipping / retreating is more of an issue." ie once it gets a bit hard "for you" you put in more consumer orientated protection. Thats seems to me, generally the way things got bolted at Jolls...which leaves a lot of "easier" lines unclimbable by those climbing at the grade, while those that climb harder dont even get on em? Its also not really the carrots/glue in carrots thats I reckon is the issue...more so the perception that dodgy trad gear on easier routes okay, but if its dodgy on a harder route something fixed goes in. Either way Im not fused, Im certainly not going to rebolt things if ppl dont want it done...just starting a discussion. Btw grats on the new route 
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dazzz1 04:17:59 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
That said, I think it is important that some climbing with more of an adventure feel is around for people who want to climb it, and I think replacing carrots with rings, and / or adding extra bolts and rings risks undermining this if not done carefully. Cheers, Dale |
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lofty 06:41:27 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
If I can add my 2 cents, I don't think HGSA requires additional bolts. The climb is intended to be mixed and there's ample opportunities to plug in cams, and I remember pretty good stances at the gear placements so don't think it's dangerous as is. I don't actually know Phil or Andrew, but according to Paul Riv they all climbed it with a cam between the 2 bolts in question. My opinion only tho. Good work (and much appreciation to you and Dan) on the bolting so far, and nice work on a new route. Rod - I think that in the early 90's there weren't many people climbing on the coast, so people bolted purely to suit their own abilities. Low 20's was perhaps easy, so it was carrots and gear. Mid 20's was hard though, so these climbs got fixed gear. It's a lot different today and the local developing types are definately thinking of moochers like myself, but perhaps not so much 20 years ago. It also seemed to be a frenzy for FA's at Jolls, so they might have just taken the quickest option. |
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adb 21:11:26 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
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Cragx 21:36:02 Thu Oct 1 2009 |
 ...I think the question I want answered is can a dangerous route be retro'd so I becomes climbable by a person who normally climbs that grade? Nothing wrong with the mixed/carrot ethic, as thats Jolls flavour, just the death routes at the lower grades which are really just wasting good potential lines. |
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vwills 02:20:36 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
HGSA - I didnt use first bolt at all when I repeated it on lead this week. Several cam options more to left where you actually climb. The firsat bolt would be better higher and more to left. Son of a Gun. Overbolted. Overgraded, but very enjoyable.Climb 25/26 Rod and you will have no complaints
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adb 03:49:08 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
Dam Cliffs might be considered "too safe" but I once chatted to a fellow there who was free soloing. He said he'd had a fall from 12m but lived and it hadn't deterred him. A big enough ego can make anything as dangerous as the owner of the ego wants. I'm old enough to have used up my nine lives. I'm all for safety. I'll let the young blokes flaunt their egos. It reminds me of the saying "There are old pilots and bold pilots; but there are no old bold pilots!" |
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Cragx 03:57:04 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
Why carrots over the lip, why not ring or U's,....that way you can rap off and pull rope without leaving behind stuff? |
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petey_w 07:49:56 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
I say yes. (Paul is fine with that too) |
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vwills 08:41:42 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
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Cragx 09:36:20 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
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dwebster 11:38:50 Fri Oct 2 2009 |
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shnrub 09:44:53 Sun Jan 24 2010 |
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petey_w 20:53:01 Sun Jan 24 2010 |
- Hang Ten (26) [I use cams before the first bolt] - Lethal Weapon (24) - Son of a Gun (26) [probably 25 IMO] - The Hawkebury Connection + Extension (25) |
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shnrub 06:58:32 Mon Jan 25 2010 |
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petey_w 09:01:33 Mon Jan 25 2010 |
Teddy (18) [mixed] is also quite good, but I would recommend rap inspecting it as the middle slabby part was a little run out / dirty when I did it (nothing a long pre placed sling wouldn't fix. Cracken up (22) [mixed] next door is a cracker. There is a big tree at the top where you can set up a rap rope and siege till your heart's content. Different to your standard face climbing. |
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vwills 05:08:32 Thu Jan 28 2010 |
I disagree to some extent. Getting on something several grades harder than you are at your limit on is likely to result in injury (even sports routes). And though I'm not the worlds best crack climber I found Crackn Up(22) way harder than the Hawkesbury connection(25) though its meant to be 3 grades easier! And Son of a Gun was the first soft Paul Riviere climb Ive ever done-its certainly not a 26. It is easy to top rope/ headpoint routes around Bad Luck Silverback(19). Suggest this route, Natie Head(17), High Goose stepping action(21), Absolute Honey- though bolt at crux here a bit dodgy,(20). Biceps Femoris (21), and Biceps Brachii(21) are both on bolts. Corrosion Castle (19) all carrots. Be aware that the grades are all over the place. |
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petey_w 11:30:01 Thu Jan 28 2010 |
I rapped Corrosion Castle first and backed up nearly every bolt, when I did it. Really good gear except for the top where the bolts seem better and there is plenty of redundancy below but in retrospect there are probably only 2 bolts really to worry about - but then again I don't know anyone who has whipped on it yet... |
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Cragx 20:42:11 Thu Jan 28 2010 |
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vwills 01:57:43 Fri Jan 29 2010 |
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Cragx 20:37:46 Sun Jan 31 2010 |
Btw dude and I found out why leech bar is called leech bar in the rain yesterday. |
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lofty 01:37:04 Tue Feb 2 2010 |
The routes are bolted, but again it's very easy to top rope if your trying some of the harder climbs. No shame in top roping either. I would also agree with Vanessa and suggest top roping around BLS, etc. BTW - keep an eye out for the next Rock. There should be a bunch of photos of Jolls |
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adb 22:08:03 Thu Feb 4 2010 |
My wife especially loved Heaven and Hell ... it was her first 22. I think it may have been the day we met you near the car park there. |
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shnrub 13:57:04 Wed Feb 10 2010 |
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