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2 people online in the last 15 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 2 guests. (Most ever was 74 at 04:51:16 Sun Oct 28 2012) |
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Cragx 20:55:57 Sun Feb 8 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator  Mood Now:  Reply |
Just read in the paper that a climber decked at Thompson point on the weekend, anybody have anymore info as to what happened?
Rod |
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bundybear 11:13:20 Mon Feb 9 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing  Reply |
Dont know about this Nowra, but also read this in the paper. "A TEENAGER, 18, was in a critical condition last night after falling from a cliff in the Tomaree National Park north of Boat Harbour" . Did anyone know anything about this....
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Cragx 12:11:36 Mon Feb 9 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Reply |
Didn't hear about that one, but sems a bad weekend for accidents at the crags.
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Guest [UnRegist 22:12:15 Mon Feb 9 2004 Reply |
The one a in Tomaree was a teenager/non-climber fell from the Morna Pt climbing area. Still in a serious condition in hospital. Name is unknown, but he was climbing without a rope or harness!!
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Cragx 01:47:22 Tue Feb 10 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Reply |
According to trent on Chockstone he wasnt a climber?
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Steve_M 01:46:07 Tue Feb 24 2004 Offline 421 posts Onsight Soloer  Reply |
Has anyone found out yet what happenned with the Nowra accident ?
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Cragx 02:13:36 Tue Feb 24 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Reply |
Nope didnt get any feedback.
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Steve_M 02:51:22 Thu Feb 26 2004 Offline 421 posts Onsight Soloer Reply |
I don't know how, but it would be useful to find out some more info. It seems like climbers are constantly having accidents in Queensland but it's not everyday it happens at Nowra.
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Cragx 09:37:01 Wed Mar 10 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood:  Reply |
Got this email from the guy who actually had the acident and hes given me permision to post it below.
Rod
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Steve_M 04:28:23 Thu Mar 11 2004 Offline 421 posts Onsight Soloer Reply |
Great to hear he's having a good recovery.
I would not have guessed that a climber having an accident at Thompsons would involve trad gear pulling. I kind of feel a bit wierd after saying that accidents seem to happen a fair bit in queensland and then finding out the guy is from queensland. The guy who died last easter at Arapiles was also from Queensland. |
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BJ2 05:38:52 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
G'day everyone
My log on is finally got sorted, so here's what happened when I decked on Barbie Twins. Like I said in my email, I hadn't done much climbing, let alone leading, over the last few years, but I'd been really getting stuck into the bouldering and indoor stuff again since chrissy. I'd been out to TP for the 1st time the weekend before and felt good on most of the sports routes I did (16-18s). On the weekend i fell, we were just planning on mucking around on the easier climbs in Descent Gully and had already done Santas' Little Helper and Lucifer. I was feeling pretty confident about doing a trad climb and just to play it safe, my mate led the route before me and left the gear in so I could have a look at her stuff on the way up as well as placing my own. Looking back, I think a bit of a gap in my knowledge was what might cause a bit of gear to walk out of an origally secure placement. I got up to the crux, where the crack sort of leans to the right, just before the juggy stuff up top, stopped for a rest and put in a small rigid stem cam under the flake (the crack wasn't very deep and the edges flared, but I din't think I could find a better placement). The pro before that was a reasonable sized nut, maybe about a body length below(?) and a bit to the left, I can't remember who placed that one. As I tried to go over the crux, my feet slipped and from there I just thought "bugger I fell," pop "oh shit, the next bit better catch me," pop "nup, I'm gonna die." At that pt I sensory overloaded and thankfully blacked out so I missed the really scary bit. When I woke up, I was in the recovery posn, my busted arm was elevated, but it was only aching a little (I thought it was just bruised, not an open fracture) and I was a little winded, but still pretty coherent over all and I could move my feet/toes so I wasn't too concerned. My mate sounded really in control, doing all the reasuring and making sure I kept talking so i reckon that she had a lot to do with keeping me from going into shock, I can't fault what she did and I owe her big. From there I was airlifted to woolongong, put back together and it's just been recovery time since then. Lessons learned: 1. The crack the cam was in was too shallow, but I don't know why the nut popped (may have been side loaded a bit when the slack went out loosening it). I should found a nice bunch cracks near the ground (not necessarily the day we went climbing) and had a play with different gear, seeing just what conditions, depth etc it needed to be secure. 2. Get a helmet (esp for trad). I don't know how I didn't injure my head at all. 3. Actually put some consideration into 1st aid and a casevac plan before you head out. I was just lucky my mate was on the ball. 4. Imagine being a belayer watching your leader bounce, it was pretty disturbing for my mate, I don't know how many people think of climbing risks from that angle (rather than what you might do to yourself). 5. The body's survival mechanisms are pretty amazing. Passing out and relaxing probably helped reduce the impact and my brain must have been releasing some cool chemicals for me not to notice my unla had poked out near my elbow and my radial head was back somewhere with my humerus. Questions raised: 1. Why did the nut pop? I had a look at it on the way up and it looked good. i don't think there was much traverse between it and the cam, but the rope pulling it sideways is about the only thing i can think of that would have pulled it out of place unless the crack wasn't bottlenecked enough or the rock actually failed. 2. What is the general standard of pro like on BT (is anyone very familiar with it?), i guess in comparison to any trad crags down this way (if there are any?) I'm keen to learn as much from this screw up as I can because I've definitely been given a second chance so if anyone has any points or want's me to expand on something, I'm really keen to hear what people have to say. Cheers, stay safe BJ |
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shawkshaw 05:42:40 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator  Reply |
glad you came out of it without major injuries.
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chris_coghill 07:48:32 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 278 posts Onsight Specialist Reply |
What the hell is a trad climb doing at Nowra anyway? I would have thought they had all slinked off to Mexico or Queensland years ago!
Glad to hear you are getting better, BJ. |
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Cragx 10:28:13 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Hey Brett,
I dont think its a screw up, but more likely a sequence of events that lead to your demise, maybe the pndulum effect on the nut and the loading was enough to pop it. its hard to envision every wau force wil apply on a placement i a fal, most ppl just give a downward tug and go yep, shes a bomber. I advise you to head to chockstone and download the vid of Neil's two Bomber cam placemnets blowing and his grounder, it can happen to anyone and unfortuantely you ran out of gear to stop the fall. I gotta admit I hate even being the belayer on trad route until three good pieces of gear are in, its a part of trad, and hopefully it wont happen again. Rod |
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BJ2 10:53:53 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
I had a look at the vid. Yeecch! I'm glad I didn't see myself bounce.
Cheers for the well wishes from the guys who have posted them. I was wondering, if anyone is heading out to TP in the near future and you're going through descent gully, could you have a look at the crack (it's more of a fold under a flake in parts) and see what you think about it in terms of pro placement (depth, the flared edges etc) and how far the crack veers off to the right about 10m up? |
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BJ2 11:05:40 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
I had a look at the vid. Yeecch! I'm glad I didn't see myself bounce.
Cheers for the well wishes from the guys who have posted them. I was wondering, if anyone is heading out to TP in the near future and you're going through descent gully, could you have a look at the crack (it's more of a fold under a flake in parts) and see what you think about it in terms of pro placement (depth, the flared edges etc) and how far the crack veers off to the right about 10m up? |
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vwills 12:02:09 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 355 posts Soloer Reply |
I top roped that climb after doing Beavis last year, cos we didn't have any trad gear- didn't expect to need it at TP!
I'm not a trad expert but I thought the crack looked OK for gear and the crux seemed well off the ground- I would have thought more gear placement options than a cam and wire were available but then things always look easier on top rope, and I wasn't particularly looking! I always try and place a few good pieces low, including a multidirectional piece even if the bottom half is dead easy, to stop things lifting out. Were you just using standard quickdraws or slings? The main reason I've had gear walk is too short runners. |
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BJ2 22:56:14 Tue Mar 16 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
I was just using normal quickdraws. At the time I didn't think the one on the nut would be too short, but now I'm thinking that's a likely possibility to why the nut came out. Especially if the cam held just long enough for the rope to put some sideways tension on the nut one way and then as the nut took the fall I might have swung back on it the other way, causing it to walk out.
From memory, I think the crack open up facing to the right too rather than being perp to the face of the wall(it was more of a layback than a jam). Did you notice that? |
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vwills 08:50:12 Wed Mar 17 2004 Offline 355 posts Soloer Reply |
I think I climbed BT jamming with the left side and face moves with the right- the crux for me was after a horizontal break with a long reach to a jug but I was too short to do it without moving the feet to a more marginal stance. From there it was cruise to the top.
As I said - not an expert on trad- infact I only had my first trad fall today- on a Gde 22 at Port Stephens,and am pleased to report nothing popped! Solid rock for pro though. I guess rock quality is another factor- I wouldn't trust smallish wires even in Nowra sandstone |
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Josh_C 11:20:47 Wed Mar 17 2004 Offline 1492 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
ive done trad for as long as ive done sport (not that long
 and ive never taken a fall on trad gear (the most ive done is load it with body weight for a belay, and never with less than 3 or 4 good pieces in), and ive never climbed at t.point so my salt should be taken with a small grain of opinion ('would you like some chips with your sauce?' ahhh you don't get it do ya) ive found that often when placing a wire its bomber for outward and downward forces, but even after giving it a good tug to jam it in, just climbing past the piece can put enough force (the rope dragging through the draw) to simply lift it out of the placement. i cant speak for the cam since i havent seen the placement (or YOUR placement) but it sounds like the whip force on a rope that a piece pulling out would give added to the fall- it may have lifted it slightly before loading it, meaning that the wire didnt fix into the placement but rather pulled through the top (and presumably wider) part of the crack whether or not this is what actually happened, I for one plan on getting a second set of draws with long spectra slings to use for tradding |
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BJ2 00:21:16 Thu Mar 18 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
From what I've read and my vague recall of what happened I'm starting to think that the nut probably walked out and popped because of either rope drag or the changing load conditions during the actual fall.
In both cases it seems to me that a longer sling would have been the way to go to reduce the drag or reduce the horizontal component or the force from the fall. Does this seem reasonable? Another question for the trad climbers then, is there a way of telling when rope drag might cause gear to move? (coz I'm sure there's times when some drag is unavoidable) |
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trentsadventures 04:58:56 Mon Mar 29 2004 Offline 97 posts Lead Climber Reply |
how far was your belayer standing away from the wall. often your first piece pulls it is because the belayer is standing away from the base of the climb rather than underneath it. This puts a fairly severe angle in the rope where it runs through the first piece and in the event of a fall this translates to outward force on the piece rather than downward as was initally intended.
the solution is simple. Your first piece should always be multi-directional. Even if it is only done at head height from the ground, placing two opposed pieces will drastically reduce the chance of doing a ground up zipper. because this piece is capable of taking a force from any direction, up, down and outward, the chances of this first piece blowing is very low even if the belay is standing well back from the wall. because it happened so quickly your recollection is probably vague but you might find that the bottom piece was actually the first one to go, followed very closing by the cam that was taking the brunt of the falls force. ive seen it happen plenty of times before when a leader use non-opposed nuts for the first placement or two, then takes a fall up higher and all the unequalised pieces pull out. it is usually a cam that stops it cause they can shift to some degree and provide a little flexibility. The ground up zippering usually results in the first pieces wrapping the knuckles of the belayer after they spin their way fiercly down the line. Lesson to learn: Trad climbing - 1st piece should be multi-directional (opposed) Trent ps glad you are ok now. |
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BJ2 11:11:55 Mon Mar 29 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
Hey Trent
My belayer was pretty close to the wall from memory and she didn't say anything about the 1st bit of gear popping. It wasn't multidirectional, but we were being pretty conscious about it loading outwards. I've seen it when the bottom piece fails and the belayer passes the leader in the air, that was freaky. You do raise a good point, but and it can't hurt to put in a multidirectional anchor everytime. On the subject of big falls, does anyone know anything about a girl who decked in SA today or yesterday? I saw something about it on chockstone and it sounds a bit similar to my stack. |
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Cragx 11:25:04 Mon Mar 29 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Only from what I read on chockstone.
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BJ2 12:25:06 Fri Apr 16 2004 Offline 10 posts Indoor Bumbly Reply |
I dunno if anyone's interested, but I'm pretty stoked so I'll post it anyway.
I just had my first session back since my accident over the last few days out at the Blueys (just top roping and 2nd-ing)!! Damn it's good to be back on the rock!!!!!!!!!!!:rotflmao: |
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