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5 people online in the last 15 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 5 guests. (Most ever was 74 at 04:51:16 Sun Oct 28 2012) |
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Cragx 05:29:28 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator  Mood Now:  Post Mood:  Reply |
Steve and I had a bit of an email discussion lately (should have been working but talking climbing is way more fun) re the merits of an online guide book.
My theory went that with new routes going up all the time and rebolting etc , most published guides are out of date within months of printing. With online guides being very cheap to set up and very low overheads my thoughts was a non profit site were you could download specific guides for a small fee, say $2 and that would give you a year of updates. (or simply a year membership fee, though then you would be paying for areas you'd never get to.) The fee would cover admin costs and possible donations to organisations like NSW rebolting. People that provided info would have free access thus keeping the updates coming. Do people reckon this approach would work? For the record, Im not planning on setting up said site, just asking for discussion sake |
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shawkshaw 05:35:15 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator  Reply |
i love reading printed guidebooks (maybe im odd). that said i think a printed guide with an online website with updates would be a great way to achieve both mediums. i continued this discussion with andrew at berowra on sunday and i think sydney needs a printed guide. maybe not a fullon all crags mega guide like the online one at present but a selected guide to the better crags with photo topos would be great. similar ro the berowra one about to be avaliable.
steve |
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bundybear 05:43:09 Mon Mar 22 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing  Post Mood:  Reply |
Guide Books are good, cause everthing is neet and organised, I would like to get regular updates from the guide book publisher for these guide books. I like the way there is the Mt Boyce updates for BM Climbing III, they glue in straight over the adds.
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Cragx 05:45:51 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Yeah you are odd, but that should be another thread.
If you had the download guides as PDF's you can still print them out very nicely and have your printed version. The main differences would be , 1/ Original cost, as there would be no printing costs so supply wuld be much less 2/ Always up todate. For example, Going to Berowa tomorrow, log into said site and download latest PDF to find out were Steve' latest crimpy nightmare is so you can avoid it. If you bought a printed guide just last week, it wouldnt be in there and you might actually climb it by mistake. You could still add all the history etc of the crag, and keep adding to it, so i dont think you'd miss out on anything. Another thing you could have would be attached forums to each area/climb for beta if needed, and ranking, like thecrag.com though more a discussion type fourm like this one, so people can ask about the climbs/discuss them. A companion site would be good, but since most guide books are publishto make money, editors tend to hold onto new info for there next book....ie people not in the loop have to wait years for updates. |
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Cragx 05:47:54 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Yeah Bundy but thats not by Pircher or Simon C, thats someone independant who's taking the time to do it (and doing an awsome job too)...if you had a fourm/site to co-ordinate it all i reckon it would be done alot more often.
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bundybear 06:02:14 Mon Mar 22 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Post Mood: Reply |
Yeah I know, but how good does it fit into the book..
Guide Books are great bed time reading. New "Rock" out soon, cant wait. |
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shawkshaw 06:50:44 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
also not everyone is on the net, or broad band which would mean downloading sizable guides would be a pain
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Josh_C 11:38:47 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 1492 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
both have plenty of merits- as has already been said, online means regular updates and easy, cheap access. printed means easier to read, standardised etc etc
i love online guides, but I agree sydney needs a printed guidebook (the last attempt was mikl's sydney and the sea cliffs in 1980 something...) maybe when some of the current crags are developed? i'd be more than happy to contibute as much as you need (photos, beta, topos etc) btw- steve that berowra guide is choice! printed it off just then...it'll make good re-reading material for when im supposed to be doing math (hey, ive already exhausted the last 10 years of rock, rock&ice, and climbing mags- one of the advantages of working at a climbing gym who dont keep track of their magazine collection) |
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Chris_Y 23:07:24 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 102 posts Flash Specialist Reply |
I too am a fan of the printed guide book, but do see the merit in the on-line version as well.
A well produced, printed guide is like a little time capsule into a crag or area at a particular point in its climbing history. Some classics that come to mind are Andrew Penny's Mt Piddington guide from about 1979 / 80 or Mike Law's Melbourne's Local Crags from Screamer Mag (a pull out magazine type guide). These guides and many like them are an absolute hoot to go back and read and check out the photo's in and reflect the personality of the authors and the climbing community at the time. And usually these types of guides are much more intensively researched and checked... something often lacking in online guides. While on-line guides provide almost immediated updates (depending on how organised / motivted the caretakers are), generally they lack the depth of research to be really accurate and updates often just get stuffed in on top of already inaccurate information. For really good on-line guides the Rock-Fax ones from the UK / US are outstanding, but these are the exceptions... obviously really well researched and checked...brilliant topos and photos. As with most things in life, there is no substitute for hard work... and this also applied to guide books. Chris |
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Cragx 23:25:36 Mon Mar 22 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Yeah I would model it on Rock Fax if it where to be done, thought the reason gudie books currently out do online gudies is cause of the money involved. Most online guides are done by volunteers, thus time/money is a factor.
A possibility is the mini guide like rock fax, Steve's berowra guide an example....done by the "locals" of the crag |
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Josh_C 00:43:08 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1492 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
im completely capable (as im sure many other climbers out there are) of compiling, editing, etc a guidebook- if we all help out with research, then chip in money for printing one batch of good quality printing (theres gotta be a climber out there somewhere with connections in the printing industry?) then the profits can go to a full printing job as well as rebolting fund/cragx bolts fund.....
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shawkshaw 00:52:04 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
i don't think a printed guide should be comprehensive for sydney, just selected areas that get well use. leave the choss for the online guide.
areas such as berowra, narabeen slabs, narabeen steepside, barrenjoey, diamond bay, bow wall, bangor west, the cathedral, blue bell, would be what is needed. then you have a good usuable guide to the MAIN areas and the obscure areas could be accessed by online guide. what other areas are popular? |
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Cragx 01:05:06 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
The Stables & Mt K??
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shawkshaw 01:16:30 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
indeed
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bundybear 01:36:22 Tue Mar 23 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
The Shire's top 10 is:
1. Bangor 2. Cathedral 3. Wastelands (Engadine) 4. BlueBell (Heathcote) 5. Alfords Point 6. Bonnet Bay 7. Ilawong 8. The Wok 9. Lugarno 10. Bardens Ridge Other Excellent spots to include would be: 1. Jolls Bridge 2. Mt Alexander |
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shawkshaw 01:51:02 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
i don't thinks alfords should go in due to access issues. there is no way the wok should be there either. that place cracks me up! jolls and mt alexander. never been to mt alex. jolls not sure. its a big place but its weird. anything further down your list than bluebell is probably to obsure for a selected guide. but depends on the traffic it gets i suppose.
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bundybear 02:03:37 Tue Mar 23 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
I put the Wok in cause it gets plenty of traffic (not sure why. I agree its grap). mt alex is excellent on excellent rock, all well bolted, heaps of stuff for you to do..
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bundybear 02:10:21 Tue Mar 23 2004 Unavailable 1322 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
Higest ticks by area from thecrag.com
1. Berowra [64 climbs, Hornsby and the North] 2. Slabs [31 climbs, Northern Beaches] 3. Southwest Right [29 climbs, Northern Beaches] 4. Southwest Left [51 climbs, Northern Beaches] 5. Main Area (Bangor) [49 climbs, Sutherland] |
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shawkshaw 02:12:37 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
i love that website
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Chris_Y 04:58:08 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 102 posts Flash Specialist Reply |
Great work on the Berowra guide Steve! Contrary to my previous remarks a well done on-line guide is tremendously useful, cheaper and more relevant to the consumer nature of Sydney climbing. My comments are perhaps more a reflection of the current Sydney on-line guide, and this is not a slur on Peter Monk's efforts as he has done a massive job and all credit to him for continuing with it while working in the US.
A Sydney select on-line guide should be just that - highly selective. Crags included need to be extenisve enough (ie: a critical mass of climbs through a range of the most popular grades), have had or see sufficient traffic to warrant the effort of production, and have that certain quality that makes us want to return on a regular basis. As the nature of Sydney climbing changes new or emerging crags can be added at a later date. Another suggestion would be (as is the case with the larger UK guides ie: Yorkshire Grit etc.), to have a individual (or team) of editors for 1 particluar crag that they are very familiar with. This would provide greater quality to the finished work and reduce the overall workload (similar to what Steve has done)... Chris |
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Steve_M 06:42:21 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 421 posts Onsight Soloer  Reply |
I'm confused. The discussion was on a selective published guide, not a selective online guide. I think most people agree that a comprehensive online guide is a great thing. You can easily sort out what your interested in and what your not. What's the point of a selective online guide, there are no size limitation or publishing costs.
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Cragx 07:12:16 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 2051 posts Administrator Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Stve, I think the idea that being put forward is that to do one area comprehsively you need to dedicate alot of work to it. Of course as the online guides were done, updating is less work so more could be added.
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shawkshaw 07:42:26 Tue Mar 23 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
yeah im talkingaout a printed guide
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shawkshaw 07:46:44 Wed Mar 24 2004 Offline 1343 posts Administrator Reply |
anyone got any good action pics (digital) or stories of sydney?
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Josh_C 08:27:19 Wed Mar 24 2004 Offline 1492 posts Net addict - someone take me climbing Reply |
ive got some (at least i think they're) good pics- im almost finshed designing my own site just for pics so ill let you know- easier that way then me sending them to you...
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