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QuintAan
13:04:11 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Locara 2004
Gahmorra 2005
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Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

The good, the bad, and the ugly. That describes the battle perfectly.

The good: 25000 pts of 40K killing power.

The bad: lack of food, too much caffine, and getting your ass kicked in the process :P

The ugly: Just take one look at that group picture!!

The Eldar won pretty handily. We didn't add up the victory points but I'm thinking that they had a good 2k pt cushion if not more over the chaos forces. Not that the chaos didn't bloody the nose of the Eldar, they just didn't hit back hard enough.

In hindsight, the outcome was easily predicted. I tried envisioning what the chaos forces could have done differently enough to affect the outcome of the game and I think that nine times out of ten they were going to be on the losing side (and the tenth time would be the result of massive implanted horseshoes). The Eldar simply outgunned the chaos, had more durable vehicles, and had more mobility all round. The chaos lascannons were virtually negated by holofield/spiritstones on falcons and vypers (not to mention 2 land raiders dying first turn before even moving) and the assault units, where chaos had an advantage, were all left on foot and forced to get shot up pretty bad before getting stuck in. The end result was that they were often not enough.

I realize now that having the 3 chaos players strive to reach the 12k pt mark was not the wisest choice. All three of us stretched our collections to the limit to field the army and it was a) full of "fat", i.e. extra units and wargear that did not help us out and b) not focused enough either on shooting or assault. I know for a fact I could strip 2000 pts out of my 5000 pts I fielded and probably have a much better force for facing an equal number of Eldar. Our numerous tanks were basically target practice for the Eldar brightlances, and we seriously lacked the firepower required to kill those grav tanks. On the other side of the table, the Eldar army was far more "lean" and dedicated to their goal of using those same grav tanks to pummel the chaos units and then deliver aspect warriors to finish off what was left.

In order to have had a chance to win that game I think we needed to field an army we didn't have. That is to say, we needed an army with fewer vehicles and assault units, and more shooting units. Instead of 2 units of obliterators, we needed 4 or 5. Instead of one unit of havocs with tank-busting, we needed 3 or 4. We needed more tactical squads with heavy weapons as well. Unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20 and even knowing that we lacked the models to field what we needed.

There were some good moments though. I have to say that the units I did field performed well when given the chance. They hit often with their shooting even though the holofields and spirit stones made their efforts almost worthless, they fought well in close combat (except a couple of termies that could not wound a wraithlord with powerfists in 3 rounds of combat), and the defiler was amazing almost every shot. The raptors died horribly but took down the Autarch in the process (yay forests!), and the Quint'Aan survived to the end of the game and notched a wraithlord and warlock to his kill list.

Other highlights (and lowlights)

- Carcador charging into guardians only to be stuck there forever until banshees put him out of his misery.

- Herne going down but taking the avatar with him.

- Terminators with powerfists striking Asurmen and then him failing his 3+ inv save (with reroll!). Yay autokill!

- The last defiler shot that landed square on 8 banshees and killed seven.

- The HUMVEE survived! Death to the Eldar!

Finally, if I was getting a little crusty by the end I apologize. It was very warm in the room, we were all very rushed due to time constraints, there was a distinct lack of food (due to the time constriants!), and throw on top of all that a severe ass-kicking... well, I'm kind of surprised I didn't break out the AK-47! :wink:

To all of the Eldar players: I want a rematch in individual games! I want to see if I can do better in a smaller game with fewer distractions and with the lessons learned in this slugfest. Expect to hear from me....



---
"Fear me, love me, do as I say; and I will be your slave." - The Goblin King, Labrynth
 
 
lordherne
15:55:12 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

The Humvee survived! Woohoo! I am sure that was big victory points! What about that warlock I kept in the game by assaulting him while he was falling back? Did he get captured? That was the Chaos secret mission!

I had a geat time guys thansk again for playing so quickly so I could get as much in as possible.

Did chaos even take a Falcon Down?

That super heavy was just deadly. Especially since we couldn't counter it.

I guess we could say that we should have traded army lists before the game to at least "even things out". I had no clue as to what to expect other than the super heavy, the home brew special character, and loads of skimmers (not the SHITloads that actually showed up -see pictures).

For the record, it took us and hour and a half to deploy and I don't recommend a 12' x 4' for this points value.



---
"I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!"

- Wicked Witch of the West
 
 
Zphindar
16:30:55 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

You should have tried shooting at the super heavy. lol. It's not drextroying it that you want, it's neutering it. Without the big guns it's basically a 700 point starcannon platform.

I'm surprised you guys did not expect so many tanks. Me and Jowi have the same type of army and you played against him before. But I have to admit: That was A LOT of grav tanks (13-14)

I really loved the game BTW. I have to say I really liked the withdraw dance between the Warp Spiders and the raptors. Quite funny...

Just as curiosity (especially Bill) How was the character how brought? Worth the 200pts? Too strong? I'd like your impression please because I'd like to use him again and I'm trying to make it as balanced as possible. I'm thinking of removing the flamer and just giving him exarch deathspinner.



---
Events are Cowards... They always gang up on you -Neil Gaiman, Neverwhere
 
 
QuintAan
17:01:22 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

The fact your character was brought down by a lone raptor squad is all I need to know that he is definitely not overpowered. He is nasty on the charge, and fast, but having no inv save and only toughness 4 nicely balances him out. I would gladly face him again. :thumbgreen:

The warphunter on the other hand... While it was not as overpowering in terms of damage as I was envisioning, it was high on the nasty scale. Long range, huge templates, incredible strength and AP... and indirect fire? Super-ouch. I admit it left me bitter, but that could be because poor Rhavoc got sucked into the warp in his own deployment zone in turn 2 (along with half of his squad and most of the possessed). :lol:

If I were you, I would either avoid the holofield to make it more vulnerable OR tone down the main weapon a bit by either changing it to 2 small blast templates or one ordnance template. Or perhaps instead of making it an artillery tank going with the Scorpion super heavy main weapons and allowing it to advance and fire, it seems awfully out of place stuck on the back of the board doing little else besides bombarding the enemy. Just my 2 cents, worth no more that that! :thumbgreen:



---
"Fear me, love me, do as I say; and I will be your slave." - The Goblin King, Labrynth
 
 
Zphindar
17:32:43 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

I must admit that I was thinking of the same thing, either 2 small templates or 1 big. 2 big just looked like too much. I don't like the scorpion personnaly. The tank doesn't do enough for the 700pts I pay for it. d3 shots per turn isn't much, especially that it can't shoot the brightlance if it moved 12".

I'm thinking of keeping the holo-field on it though, mainly to offset the fact that it has to stay put to fire it's main weapon. The Super Heavy penetrating hit table is nasty! Like I said I don't care if it looses structure points, it's the main gun I don't want to loose.

Plus it's more fluffy with my craftworld, they consider themselves masters of warp technology, (They even found a way to summon daemons to do their bidding - Daemon hunter adversaries - which they keep secret from their brethren lest they think them corrupted... which they probably are) so the big D-Cannon just seems right.

Well I'm happy Z'phindar isn't unbalanced and I'm hoping to be able to use it again!

BTW I'm working on basing my army so that I can meet you at the bunker for that rematch.
[1 edits; Last edit by Zphindar at 17:35:18 Wed Jun 23 2004]



---
Events are Cowards... They always gang up on you -Neil Gaiman, Neverwhere
 
 
Jowicota
18:08:18 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

Quint posted his top moments for Chaos. Here are some of my top moments with Eldar:

- The Wave Dragon BBQ in the deployment zone in the corner. Five marines, three terminators and more guard/mutants than I could count.
- Two falcons parked in cover firing all weapons at once. Every turn they quietly took out three to ten enemy models. You guys really should have tried harder to kill them. :smile:
- Black Guardians tying up that horse guy for 1000 turns.
- Ranger disruption table. Enough said.

Other Eldar players want to add their thoughts?

  
QuintAan
18:33:27 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

Quote: Zphindar at 17:32:43 Wed Jun 23 2004

I'm thinking of keeping the holo-field on it though, mainly to offset the fact that it has to stay put to fire it's main weapon. The Super Heavy penetrating hit table is nasty! Like I said I don't care if it looses structure points, it's the main gun I don't want to loose.


I understand. I think toning down the main gun a tad would suffice and take the edge off the panic it causes. Two small templates base to base is still nasty when indirectly fired up to 36 inches away.

Interesting fluff in terms of warp masters. Maybe some wraithguard would be a good addition? They do carry minitaure d-cannons after all and are decent elites.



---
"Fear me, love me, do as I say; and I will be your slave." - The Goblin King, Labrynth
 
 
Zphindar
19:01:16 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

I'm slowly working on that. 15$ a model is not in my price range often... I have 3 now, working on to get a squad of 5 in wave serpent



---
Events are Cowards... They always gang up on you -Neil Gaiman, Neverwhere
 
 
QuintAan
19:32:22 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

Nasty trick of the day: squad of 5 wraithguard, add warlock with enhance (squad is fearless anyways) and then have a farseer on foot join the squad during the game and cast fortune on them. (Alternatively; give the warlock conceal).

This is a squad with WS5, str 5, init 5, toughness 5, 3+ re-rolled save, fearless. And the farseer and warlock add the witchblade attacks and 4+ inv saves to stop characters in their tracks. Not to mention the wraithcannons. :insane: I did this once against Dark Eldar and clean up entire flank by themselves.



---
"Fear me, love me, do as I say; and I will be your slave." - The Goblin King, Labrynth
 
 
Jowicota
19:48:47 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

...not to mention all the extra wounds added by the Farseer.

  
Jowicota
20:38:23 Wed
Jun 23 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

I was very happy with the experience and give thanks to Dave, Bill, Noel, Keith, Devon and Benoit for being part of it!

I have a few thoughts that are non-game related that might improve the next one:
1. Deployment is going to take about 10 minutes per thousand polints. Looking back on the games I've played, that seems to be the formula.
2. Notice how we sped up a lot after the first turn? The top of the first turn with Eldar was pure (forgive the pun) chaos. As we got used to doing things concurrently it really got better. We should keep that in mind for the future for other mega-games we play, whether they're against each other or not.
3. The "experience" lasted from about 9:30 AM to about 6 PM. That's about 8.5 hours. I was pretty beat by about 2 PM. The florescent lights, the non-stop standing up, the cramped areas to stand in, the stuffiness of the place all contributed to making me feel a bit more soggy by the time we were done. I think in the future if we play games that size together we should be smart and ask questions about breaks, air circulation, catering (yes... bringing food for everyone), lighting, etc. I think it would make an 8 hour game much more endurable.
4. Despite the space issue I mentioned, we could have used a bigger table.
5. Rides should be a bit more carefully arranged so no one has to take the bus anywhere if they don't have to.
6. The game is important, but other things make the game better, too: Tables to keep units that aren't yet deployed, places to put carrying cases and bags, figuring out whose dice are whose; all of these things add to the effectiveness of the gaming experience.

These aren't complaints. I'm just suggesting ways we can make an already great experience even better. Feel free to chime in!

  
lordherne
16:06:20 Fri
Jun 25 2004

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Re: Eldar versus Chaos Megabattle: Result

I forgot to add that my Kroot Hunter pack performed amazingly during the game. They took out a wraithlord in one round of shooting and then combined with my bikers for an assault against the Eldar line in which they dropped a bunch of dire avengers (I think, or just guardians). After that, I had to leave so I don't know.

If I gave them an eviscerator they could have went after the super heavy grav tank.:newtonguesmile:



---
"I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!"

- Wicked Witch of the West
 
 

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