Affiliate Board: Deep Woods (Warhammer Fantasy Battle)
Affiliate Board: Off Topic (General Discussion Board)
Affiliate Board: Centretown Warhammer Club (Gaming Club)
Affiliate Board: GW Ottawa Local
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Affiliate Board: Deep Woods (Warhammer Fantasy Battle) Affiliate Board: Off Topic (General Discussion Board) Affiliate Board: Centretown Warhammer Club (Gaming Club) Affiliate Board: GW Ottawa Local | ||
| Welcome, Register :: Log In |
| Pages: [ 1 2 ] |
| [ Notify ] | [ Print ] | [ Send To Friend ] | [ Watch ] | [ < ] [ > ] |
|
Orbital101 04:38:20 Fri Aug 1 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
 Reply |
Today was going to be a sad day. Wanted to play with the kids. Had to work instead. Blah.
What cheered me up? I got to see Dennis and play my first ever game of 5th ed with him! My tasks for the day kept me close to Bayshore, where he was hanging out. I even got to play against Jason, albeit quite a bit later in the day. These were my maiden 5th ed games, and I loved them. First game was 1500 points of Eldar against 1500 of Guard. Second was 1500 against Tau. Here was my list (in case you're interested):
Here are my observations about 5th ed: - No matter how wel you think you've read the rumor forums, don't kid yourself: You need the rulebook. - 5th ed Deployment completely eradicates the 1st-turn advantage that 4th ed afforded. We like this. - Fast-moving skimmers can either move fast OR fire weapons. We like this. - Skimmers moving fast get a 4+ save rather than being impossible to pen. We like this. - Almost all cover is 4+. We like this. - Rules for reserves and infiltrators are interesting and more tactical. We like this. - Rules for "Kill Points" are easier and quicker than Victory points. We like this. - "True Line of Sight" means that whatever the model's eye can see is what they can shoot. We kinda like this. I am very much in favor of the spirit of the rule, but this will lead to many, many arguments about what can and can't be seen by particular models when the heat is on. - Honestly? Everything else is pretty much fantastic. I am particularly in favor of the new skimmers-moving-fast rule. It means that tanks like the Falcon are now merely "tough to kill" rather than "teeth-gnashingly hard to kill". It means fast-moving skimmers have to choose between shooting OR the 4+ save. This is good stuff. The only thing I was iffy on was the variable game length which starts at turn 5 to see if the game continues or ends. I appreciate that it keeps a player on his/her toes to bring it to an early or late close and encourages adaptability and tactical thinking... but I personally think this will sometimes tire me out or frustrate me. Sometimes a game seems "want" to end at a certain point and I don't want to have to cut it off early or drag it out longer. Most 40k games feel pretty fatigued by turn 7. Personal things of note: - Dennis started the game off by HAMMERING me, but I pulled it back and cold-cocked him from roughly turn 3/4 onward. 5th ed seems to lend itself well to a change of direction in game power, like watching a good hockey game where the puck races from one end of the rink to the other. - At one point I dropped 66 (sixty-six) shots on two broadsides and they did not take one wound. I know people who will tell you it's a statistical impossibility, but I witnessed it and it made me say "f***". - One squad of Striking Scorpions succeeded in immobilizing a Devilfish, immobilizing a Skyray, killing an entire squad of Kroot and Hounds, killing a second squad of Kroot and Hounds and offing a squad of Pathfinders. They definitely earned their pay.- Anyone who thinks Guardians are useless are not seeing the forest for the trees. They were consistently solid in both games and were just as consistent in 4th ed as well. If not for the Scorpions, I might even award them MVP. Note: In 5th ed, taking a Warlock with Guardians in order to get Conceal isn't as mission-critical as it was in 4th ed. With so much 4+ cover around, you may want to save the points.
|
|
Orbital101 05:01:44 Fri Aug 1 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
Other notes:
I thought I was tired of Eldar. After today, I really am not. Finlos, I defended your honor. I tied the game against Tau because I didn't realize you had to be within 3" of the objective instead of 6" (like I'm used to), so when I thought I was holding the only objective I really wasn't. I'll get you next time, Horsely. I did kick the living crap out of Dennis, though. Sorry about that, Dennis.
|
|
The_Yaoitzer 03:40:17 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 616 posts  Reply |
nice write up, and it's great to hear that you haven't lost interest in eldar
 i can't wait to read more reports from you or any other gamer |
|
Orbital101 03:47:34 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
I kinda lost interest in the whole game in general... but the 5th ed rules are so *dynamic*. And some of the things about the Eldar army that I didn't like have been smoothed out by the new rules. I can now take Falcons without guilt.
My Harlequins, however, will probably be given to my kids and become part of their Polly Pockets collection. Oh well... you get a little, you give a little
|
|
The_Yaoitzer 04:04:32 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 616 posts Reply |
haha, what exactly hamstrings them? i'm unfortunately too rules-challenged to know, i'd think the more decisive close combat would benefit them
in any case, i look forward to my first game in fifth |
|
Orbital101 04:40:27 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
This might turn into a long discussion. Possibly painful. But here it is:
Harlequins' main trick is rending. When attacking, they would have a pretty high chance of rending the living crap out of stuff. They need this... because they are not at all resilient or unusually strong. When they hit, it has to count because they run out of tricks pretty fast after that. With the rending decision moved from the "to hit" roll to the "to wound" roll, the amount of rending attacks is greatly diminished. Here's a little math-hammer to show the difference. 6 Harlequins attack 10 Space Marines. That's 18 attacks on the charge. Statistically you'll get three sixes, which are the rending hits. We'll say that these are part of the 9 hits that they will typically get on the charge. Now, roll for wounds and you'll get 4.5 wounds, roughly 1.5 of which are sixes. So, with Rending being calculated on the to-hit roll, that's three dead Marines and one more that has to make a save. With it calculated on the to-wound roll, that's one dead Marine and roughly 3 that have to make saves (which, statistically, they will do). Pretty significant difference, especially when you consider that the remaining Marines are going to make paper dollies out of the rest of the squad. Now, there's a certain personal element to it as well. I run a 6-man squad of Harleys with a Shadowseer. On foot. I could put them in a Falcon but that doesn't seem fluffy to me and, what's worse, it can give them an unfair advantage. So yeah, I could take more Harlequins in my squad and I could hijack a Wave Serpent now (5th ed rule loophole), but that doesn't feel the way I want it to feel. That approach just isn't for me. I want Harlequins to be a small chili pepper in the recipe to give it flavor. Anything more than that, and it's too much. That's just me.
|
|
GreatHenshini 13:10:56 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 2707 posts
 Reply |
Are you at least going to give your harlies one shot in an actual game? Theory-hammer rarely survives first contact with the enemy.
|
|
Death_by_Taxes 14:22:43 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 406 posts Reply |
Hey Cory, just so you know, in 5th ed, only troops can hold objectives.
 Beat a dead horse $5 
|
|
Finlos 19:15:53 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 216 posts  Reply |
@Orbital: Appreciated. I shall extract my own revenge soon enough
 I think Harlequins are still worth fielding, however. What I'm about to say likely won't be popular with certain folks but here it is anyways: Rending needed to be toned down.  Yes, you read that right. It's still good, just not quite the game winner it used to be. Against Guardsmen you're probably better off using Scorpions (if you're using Harlequins there's a excellent odds you're playing Eldar smile: but as the toughness and save improve, rending gets more & more valuable.A full squad of Harlies can, in theory, steamroll even a carnifex / squad of terminators / etc in one CC phase and be ready to continue through enemy lines in future turns. Where the problem may lie is that Harlequins were costed with 4th ed rending in mind. However such is life.... |
|
Orbital101 19:40:45 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
I think that rending DID need to be toned down... for ranged weaponry. Not CC.
I'll think you'll find Harlequins can no longer steamroll anything.
|
|
Suicide_King 20:55:18 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 5415 posts
 Reply |
Having played WFB alot, rending now works exactly like killing blow (except that killing blow kills a models no matter the number of wounds). Killing blow does not do much at all, most of the time. I don't think rending needed to be toned down. I only believe that things with rending needed to be priced properly, or have their stats reduced. If assault cannons were ST5, heavy 3, rending in 4th or cost 75 points each, people would not have been complaining about them.
|
|
Orbital101 22:01:49 Sat Aug 2 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
I also think that an army should have a limit on how many rending units they can take.
I also wish I had all my hair back. Basically, wishes = irrelevant.
|
|
Matt_Varnish 21:17:34 Tue Aug 5 2008 Offline 2505 posts GM7 - 3rd Place 2005 GT best painted 2006 40k 12th place The Flesh Wash Adept  Reply |
rending vs vehicles needed to get toned down. I had zero problems with rending vs infantry in 4th edition. It was the fact that a str 6 weapon had statistically better odds of destroying an armor 14 vehicle than a lascannon that had me ticked off.
As a Nid player, My Genestealers got toned down some due to rending, but I still think that getting MORE of them into combat negates the nerf they got. Especially considering I can Outflank with them (scuttlers) and need Extended Carapace less to protect them from shooting (thats what termagaunts are for now) However, I can see that small elite squads with rending need to be babysat so they dont get shot to death (harlies) or shove em in a vehicle. Yes, in 4th, 3 falcons with harlies in em as retarded, but I think in 5th, a veteran player who knows his stuff wont begrudge you using this way due to their nerfs
|
|
Matt_Varnish 21:25:56 Tue Aug 5 2008 Offline 2505 posts GM7 - 3rd Place 2005 GT best painted 2006 40k 12th place The Flesh Wash Adept Reply |
And to the game vs Corey itself: Guard armies right now are tough to play. Things get cover saves vs your shooting, and while units cant consolidate into your nearby squads after an assault, the odds that that first squad will be wiped out or swept has risen MAJORLY due to the new combat res AND the counterstrike rule. This is HUGE. I actually left my squats back in ottawa, awaiting the new codex until I try them again, because I really think that guard lists will need to change drastically to compete in 5th. I hate to say this, but when I saw the rumored 3 leman russ tank squadron as ONE HS slot, but 0-1 tank squadrons per army, I thought it was retarded. Not anymore. Guard need something.
Against Marty, who played the fluffiest list Ive ever seen him play, that one squad of 10 assault marines with JP chaplain wiped out half my army in HTH. I couldnt kill many of them due to all the saves, and despite not being able to consolidate into new squads, I kept losing each combat by 5+ points. In 4th, with an officer and flag nearby, that'd be leadership 9 or 10, minus 1 or 2 (depending on below half) Now at MINIMUM its -5, sometimes -8 or -9. BTW kudos to marty's 5th ed marine list: 10 man squads, he even kept one in the back, simulating holding an objective, 2 dreads (which are awesome now with cover saves!) and a whirlwind which did a ton of damage. Oh, and even with nerfed rending, My demolisher got assault cannoned by a tornado, proving it is still possible to get that str 15 vs armor 14 (triple 6 roll) But yeah, was good to play vs some Ottawa boys, wish I had had more time.
|
|
Orbital101 21:48:52 Tue Aug 5 2008 Offline 8698 posts
Autarch
Reply |
I know what you're saying there, but I think the Assault Cannon had: - Range. - Ability to be mounted on a lot of different units in the same list. - 4 shots apiece. - Decent points cost.- Rending. I think at least one or tw of those things could have been toned down. Turned out to be rending. I now think the Assault Cannon is a tough but reasonably fair weapon, but I think CC specialists didn't need the nerf. Harlequins: If it wasn't for the stupid abuses of players in 4th ed, GW probably wouldn't have touched them. Now, thanks to those idiots, 3 squads in Falcons is the only way to effectively use them. Boo hiss, idiot Eldar players.
|
| Pages: [ 1 2 ] |
| [ Notify ] | [ Print ] | [ Send To Friend ] | [ Watch ] | [ < ] [ > ] |
|
people online in the last 15 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 0 guests. (Most ever was 174 at 13:47:56 Thu Nov 18 2021) |
|
| Register :: Log In :: In Power The time is now 11:41:45 Sat Dec 2 2023 |
Deep Space :: Battle Reports :: Welcome to 5th
|
Legal Babble |
