Blew my stack
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WHatever 16:26:25 Tue Apr 26 2005

Blew my stack Speaking of expectations. I have had all I can take of my husband expecting other members of the family to read his mind and do what he thinks we should be doing. If someone fails to properly read his mind, which is frequent, he becomes irate and unbearable to be around for anywhere from a few hours to several days. The most recent episode happened last night when our son went to the library with friends and got home late. Evidently my husband thought if he was going to be past a certain hour our son should call home and let us know. On the surface its not an unreasonable request but it was never stated. Needless to say our son had no clue this was expected, lost track of time and was home much beyond the time my husand felt was appropriate. The minute our son walked in the door my husband attacked him for not calling. Our son got defensive and said he was not told to call and my husband bellowed at him for talking back. Now neither of them is speaking to the other and they both are barely speaking to me. My son is upset at me for what he sees as my enabling this kind of behavior and my husband is livid for questioning him, which I did at length after the fact. I told him we are all tired of being expected to read his mind and guess what is expected of us. He stormed out of the room and hasn't said a word. So here we are again. I'm frustrated beyond belief and I think both the boys are as well. Like I said the expectation wasn't unreasonable and this could have been avoided by saying, please call if your going to be later than a certain hour. Is that really to much to ask? Is there a nice way of showing him the problem isn't what he asked of our son but the fact he never said it in so many words? I just don't know how much more any of us can put up with the mindreading games.

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TcBrown 02:23:59 Wed Apr 27 2005

Re: Blew my stack Thinking others can or will read minds seems to be common with NPD. I know I've done this to varying degrees and feel most comfortable with those who appear to be in sync with my thoughts. I'd suggest this is a case where simply saying the same thing you did here would be helpful. Namely that his request was reasonable but people cannot be asked to follow orders that are never spoken. Perhaps if you give him positive feedback it will make him feel more comfortable saying what he is thinking in the future.

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melaniemac 15:36:29 Wed Apr 27 2005

Re: Blew my stack This is sort of along the same line. In one of the few counselling sessions I got my ex to attend he talked about how he felt I didn't love him. I told him all the time that I did but he said my actions didn't reflect that. I asked him what he needed from me to feel that I loved him. He told me that he shouldn't have to tell me. If I loved him it would just show. There are many other examples of this in our relationship. I don't think he even realized that it was happening. I like TC's idea of just letting him know that you don't think his request was unreasonable. Also, in the future, before your son goes out, perhaps he could just check and see what time his father would like him home?

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gailabelle 20:55:57 Wed Apr 27 2005

Re: Blew my stack I've been there and done this too and it is extremely frustrating. I would suggest establishing some standard rules that always apply. For ex. if at ANY time the kids will be later than the standard rule time you set that they then always call. This eliminated some of these problems at our house but often even if they called my h still had a cow even when circumstances that caused them to be late were not within the kids control, like if they rode with someone else for ex. Another part of the problem for me was an unrealistic expectation that everyone adhere to my h's prefered schedule instead of our own in addition to the mindreading expectation. As the kids got big and more involved with outside activities, I think it was difficult for my h to accept that he did not get to control everything. Ultimately, I handled all things kids related, letting him know in advance if he needed to alter his schedule in any way to help out. This worked out better for all of us then the unexpected outburst of unexpressed expectations sceneros. Kids do better when they know what is expected IMO and relieving him of the need to worry or keep up with them did seem to help somewhat.

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jimmie 23:36:18 Wed Apr 27 2005

Re: Blew my stack Looking at this from a attitudinal healing perspective you might take the positive feedback one step further. In addition to saying the expectation was reasonable you might calmly and nonjudgmentally ask him what was happening in his mind that prevented him from doing a better job of expressing himself. If you don't approach him with anger but really do care about how he's feeling this sounds like a problem that can likely be avoided in the future.

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WHatever 15:51:14 Fri Apr 29 2005

Re: Blew my stack One of the more frustrating aspects of dealing with my husband is that he often pushes away positive feedback. Its as though he suspects I have a hidden motive for being nice. I confess, I do, I'd like to see him become a more healthy person. I have attempted to offer him positive feedback as is suggested here. Time will tell what happens.

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Inverted 18:21:35 Fri Apr 29 2005

Re: Blew my stack Hmmm, could be, Whatever. Whenever anyone pays me a compliment I push them away, too. I get suspicious that they don't mean it. How could they if I'm worthless? Problem is, my opinion of myself has nothing to do with their opinion of me. They are really saying something heartfelt. But I check it against what I feel (I suck) and I'm right and they're wrong, and how can they say something positive if I know it not to be true. Must be fake. This is projection. NPDers sometimes respond better if you remove the compliment from 'I' to 'You'. Instead of, 'I think you're really wonderful, honey, and brave to do xyz'...(triggers fear in NPDer, because he/she might not agree). Say....'You really are wonderful, honey, and brave to do xyz'. (Admiration.) If you and your husband are very honest with each other, you could give him positive feedback and ask him how he feels about your saying it. Open up a dialogue. But only if he is aware of being an NPDer. Having positive feedback can be painful. My father never tells me he loves me, but he did show some acts of kindness. But he beat me and emotionally abandoned me. When he says kind things, it is coupled with the abuse. So how can kind things truly be kind? They are twisted and warped. 'You're my talented son...*smack*...'you piece of sh**'...*smack*...'you're wonderful'...*smack* My mother tells me she loves me often. This coming from a woman who never calls, and who left when I was 11 years old and refused to pay child support and refused to be a mother but instead a sister. So when she says 'I love you', it is twisted because it is not backed up. This is why I feel horrible when someone tells me good things. I don't know your husband's history, but hopefully this can give you an example of why positive feedback sometimes can hurt--it reminds us of our past. Letting him know you are there for him is important. He may be afraid of abandonment? Positive feedback may trigger those feelings in youth when someone who should have loved failed to.

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Steely 20:22:58 Fri Apr 29 2005

Re: Blew my stack Problem is, my opinion of myself has nothing to do with their opinion of me. They are really saying something heartfelt. But I check it against what I feel (I suck) and I'm right and they're wrong, and how can they say something positive if I know it not to be true. Must be fake. This is projection. (Hope this worked as a quote) Just wanted to say Inverted you've summed this up to a "T". Positive feedback just won't work BECAUSE I'M WORTHLESS. WHY am I worthless? Because I say so = vicious circle ad infinitum.

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Steely 20:26:34 Fri Apr 29 2005

Re: Blew my stack oh dear - still can't &^*%#!$ quote... ho hum

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melaniemac 04:14:16 Sat Apr 30 2005

Re: Blew my stack That's how I felt with my ex. It didn't matter what good things I had to say about him, all he ever heard was the negative. But the funny part was, there was way more positive than negative. When a person doesn't want to hear it, I just don't think they will. My two cents. Mel

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TcBrown 14:53:23 Sat Apr 30 2005

Re: Blew my stack There is a lot truth in the idea that if a person doesn't want to hear the positive feedback, for whatever reason, they won't. The ego is very powerful in this regard. I don't believe this is in any way restricted to us NPDers, though it certainly complicates things considerably. There was a somewhat humorous, though serious, example of how our minds work in this regard offered by Greg Baer. If I were to spend ten minutes in a conversation with you during which the first 9 minutes I was very polite and considerate, but during the final minute I started screaming andchasing you around the room with a butcher knife, which do you think is going to leave the lasting impression on most people? If you honest the answer is the lasting memory will be the madman with the knife in the final minute, not the 90 percent of the time where things were going good. This leads us back to the point that fear and love cannot co-exist as taught in Attitudinal Healing. If a person is in a relationship where they do not feel unconditionally loved, they are going to focus on the negative rather then the conditions which lead to imitation love. This is true because imitation love does not come close to fullfilling our true needs no matter how much we might want to tell ourselves otherwise. So if a person who has developed an NPD system comes into a relationship it is almost by definition going to be centered around Imitiation Love. In my case there are good moments in my past and fond memories I have in my childhood. However, it is the 10 percent of the time that led to the development of my NPD which is leaving the lasting impression on my psyche. The 90 percent of the time is nice and all that, but fear of rejection, abandonment and other emotional concerns far out weigh the good feelings that come with Imitation or conditional love. In a relationship based on conditional love it is not surprising that a person is suspicious of positive feedback, if the next minute, day, week, whenever, they are right back to receiving rejection in the form of another person trying to change them for whatever reason. Whenever we offer criticism to anyone it should always be done from a position of unconditional love where the message is focused on building on the positive rather then rejection around the negative.. We should attempt to understand why a person is behaving the way they are and never assume we know what is really going on in their mind - a rather major foundational idea of healthy empathy. Once a person with NPD comes to a place where he does not fear another will offer unconditional love 90 percent of the time, and conditional love the other percent, they will be able to work toward healing themselves and connecting with their true self.

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Blew my stack
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