"Out beyond ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing there is a field. I'll meet you there." ----- Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Balkhi-Rumi, 13th century Sufi poet.

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"The Secret in healing Narcissism is not to heal it at all, but to listen to it. Narcissism is a signal that the soul is not being loved sufficiently. The greater the Narcissism, the less love being given." ~ Thomas Moore, 'Care of the Soul'.

Q. Is it really possible to heal NPD?

A. Anything is possible. You do not have to be a negative statistic on a probablity curve of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Heal NPD :: Open Topic :: A word on Sam Vaknin forums
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TcBrown
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 15:00:41 FriJul 18 2003 )

One of the common traits of NPD is a desire to be acknowledged as special and an expert without doing the work that is expected of others to reach this special classification. It seems that Sam Vaknin is now very intent on bragging about the couseling degree he received from Brainbridge, an online school. His grades are wonderful until you stop and consider what a counseling certificate from an online school means. A person who has received a masters or Ph.D. in psychology from an accredited school must go through a rigourous process of working with clients and being supervised by licensed professionals before receiving any degree or license to practice their field unsupervised with the public.

Once again we see something that looks good on the surface until we take the time to ask logical questions that should be asked of anyone claiming to be an expert. Namely, what exactly qualifies you as an expert claiming any degree or certificate.:smile:



---
You do not need to be loved, not at the cost of yourself. The single relationship that is truly central and crucial in a life is the relationship to the self . .. Of all the people you will know in a lifetime , you are the only one you will never lose.

~ Jo Courdt

 
 
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 19:03:37 TueMay 25 2004 )

My therapist actually told me to stay away from the Vaknin forums. He's much more aware of them than i am. I decided to check him out only after i was told to stay away. Now I see what people are saying. This guy is sick, pathetic, and the only those who read his sh-t are sicker.

  
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 20:01:36 TueMay 25 2004 )

Deckhandsdaughter,

Thanks for your post. You speak very well. I was confronted with Vaknin's work at the age of 16, and it definitely increased the self-destructive tendencies that I already had. After endless discussions with my mom and my therapist, I've gradually come to the conclusion that the situation for narcissists isn't half as bad as Vaknin makes it out to be.

I now believe that everyone has in them what they need to heal. This is similar to saying that we all have our own dark side, or bad feelings, and if we are able to bring this dark side out and accept it then that goes a long way. Because after all, narcissism is essentially the denial of what is emotionally bad/painful, but at the same time real and with the ultimate promise of hope.

Good luck everybody,

Matt



---
You know, of course, where this other world lies hidden. It is the world of your own soul that you seek. Only within yourself exists that other reality for which you long. I can give you nothing that has not already its being within yourself... All I can give you is the impulse, the key. I can help you to make your own world visible. That is all.
- Herman Hesse, Steppenwolf
 
 
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 21:22:42 TueMay 25 2004 )

I think that there is something on the Victims' forums that they should be aware of themselves. Let's assume that they are in a relationship with a pathological personality (which may or may not be a true NPD). Most people who get involved in such a relationship have BIG problems within themselves and need to consider themselves more than their "abuser."

Let's start a forum in which we all complain about how victims bring out the worst in us! :wink:

  
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 00:41:58 ThuMay 27 2004 )

I agree that Vaknin's forum's are harmful and scary. One thing that stood out for me in the original post was that it was stated that "abuse was abuse". That it is no less abusive coming from the hands of an NPDer or someone else. It's still not a way to treat a spouse, friend or child.

My mom is a psych nurse, she has been for over forty years. It used to be an accepted part of her job that she be berated, spit on and physically abused. Just within the last couple of years that has changed. She is now in a position where she can charge a patient with harassment, physical abuse, or sexual assault. None of these used to be an option for her. The profession eventially realized that because you have a mental disorder, you are not above the laws that rule the rest of society.

I have to agree with Jim. Before I realized that my ex had a serious mental disorder, I fully brought out the worst in him. Lot's of days, I still do. But I have awareness of it now and try not to do so in an effort to make my life easier.

Just my two cents.

Mel

Mel

  
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tokyojim
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 19:09:29 FriMay 28 2004 )

Melanie,

Glad to hear that is happening in psychiatric hospitals. Most of so-called "mental illness" is an excuse, an excuse for many things - irresponsibility, laziness, cruelty, malingering, self-centeredness, promiscuity, crime, abuse, insolvency, drunken behavior, and addictions.

Society needs to provide treatment and give help while holding virtually every miscreant FULLY RESPONSIBLE.

I would like to hear the judge say, "Yes, you will be given psychiatric treatment while you serve your 20 years without parole."

  
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 20:42:01 FriJul 30 2004 )

I just left the Suite101 vaknin forum when my posts, and all reply posts to me, were deleted out of the blue. I was a new member (I lasted 2 days) with mild questions and few stories I was ready to tell. The replies I received tended "away" from victim-stories, veering into attempts to understand NPD, to separate it from Sociopathy, and POOF. It all vanished mid-thread.

A couple of members questioned this. Vaknin told them each (as a group of 3) to email him privately. I wasn't included, but then I hadn't questioned the missing posts except inside my haid.

My posts were so non-inflammatory that I couldn't believe they'd ben deleted, and searched for them quite a while before I realized who the decried "missing posts" belonged to: me, and all those who responded.

:bubblebath:That's how I ended up here today. Leaving naturally entails going elsewhere.

  
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TcBrown
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 21:35:41 FriJul 30 2004 )

This example has unfortunately been the way of Vaknin and his followers since long before this community existed. Its one of many, many reasons why we and many others give no credibility to what comes from these sources. Remember these communities are run by people with deep wounds and limited intellectual ability. This dangerous combination leads people to think that you have to worship every word Sam says, otherwise you are seen as being unfaithful. This takes us back to the cult mentality which has dominated the victim boards from day one. Its sad and I really regret people are getting hurt in those forums but the best we can do is move on and work on our own issues. Maybe one day enough people will see through this that the cult will transform into something which offers real healing. We can only hope.



---
You do not need to be loved, not at the cost of yourself. The single relationship that is truly central and crucial in a life is the relationship to the self . .. Of all the people you will know in a lifetime , you are the only one you will never lose.

~ Jo Courdt

 
 
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 21:58:37 MonApr 18 2005 )

I know this is an old thread, but I happened upon it when googling & just HAD to post a response about my observations. Firstly, I do not have NPD - I was introduced to the subject while seeking support in the aftermath of my experiences with a woman who I had come to believe had a comorbidity of NPD/HPD or possibly others based on many observations over the course of more than a decade. I recognize that I am not qualified to render any kind of diagnosis & although I know she had attended therapy of some kind - I have no idea what the findings therein entail. I guess I'm a bit unnerved though by the "so-called" adjective used to describe victims of NPD abuse as discussed here previously... I mean, it seems that we've all stipulated that they ARE victims of abuse so I don't much get the "so-called" part, except maybe to acknowledge that which took me a while to come to terms with... that despite all the pain, humiliation, and torment I went thru with my ex - she was very much a victim herself of this condition - and in many ways, much moreso than I ever was or will be... that aside, there was nothing "so-called" about what I experienced & although I've come a long way since then, I did have to wallow in it for a while before I could pull myself out. But let's face it, at least on a purely logical front - one should reasonably expect some strong & lingering reactions when, as in my case, a woman does such things as have sex with 2 of your best friends, lies, gaslights, refuses to accept any responsibility, devalues you, discards you for yet another while still trying to keep you on the hook thru contradictory declarations of love & ends up not caring one bit about any of it... It ain't easy but at least now it's a little more understandable - just as now I've come to better understand that someone suffering from NPD will have great difficulty validating & certainly empathizing with those feelings or truly accepting responsibility & showing genuine remorse for having caused them. I once heard a great description of what it might be like to have a diminshed capacity to empathize as is typically found with NPD... a way to put it in terms that I could understand. I was told it's like hearing about a big earthquake on the other side of the world - while you know it's horrible, you understand that people are suffering, and the devastation is very real... it just doesn't strike you deeply, like it's surreal or something... not really something you can internalize if you will. Anyway, I respect that this is your place to heal & hope I didn't say anything out of line... now onto that unconscionable ass face MR. Vaknin - yep, I was on his Suite101 board for a while - in fact, I eventually got banned under 3 consecutive handles... I've read up on him & how he's basically a fraud with little to no legitimate credentials. In my mind, he's a stylistic regurgitator of other people's work. He's a con man with a rap sheet - and I don't even think he HAS NPD to be honest with you. I've lashed out at him in his forum for his deletion practices which are unpredictable at best & no, he doesn't actually interact with anyone on there - and is certainly not man enough to explain his actions. He does have a bit of a cult following on there - but not everyone is so blind as to not see thru him - most people just tolerate him & cow tow to his wishes... a few that go by the names of Gracie, Anitra, ImNotJadedYet, Cinnimon, SillySap, Buffy & I'm sure a number more DO have this cult-like following for Sam Vaknin. They'll generally ignore or deny the fact that Sam is a fraud & an asshole - opting to defend & cater to him instead... it's really quite pathetic. I will say this though that almost NOone on there stands up to him on any level because they'll get banned... which is why I had 3 handles banned till I was done....

  
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Re: A word on Sam Vaknin forums ( 12:50:02 WedApr 20 2005 )

Quote:



I guess I'm a bit unnerved though by the "so-called" adjective used to describe victims of NPD abuse as discussed here previously... I mean, it seems that we've all stipulated that they ARE victims of abuse so I don't much get the "so-called" part, except maybe to acknowledge that which took me a while to come to terms with... that despite all the pain, humiliation, and torment I went thru with my ex - she was very much a victim herself of this condition - and in many ways, much moreso than I ever was or will be... that aside, there was nothing "so-called" about what I experienced & although I've come a long way since then, I did have to wallow in it for a while before I could pull myself out.



I contemplated for a while whether to respond to this or not, and have reluctantly decided I will. My perspective has changed somewhat since this thread got started almost two years ago, but not in the direction you are traveling here. For one, i would disagree there is any consensus that people are victims of narcissistic abuse, let alone the whole idea of narcissistic abuse itself. We all have choices in this life and we can choose whether or not to be a victim or to accept our roles as co-creators of relationships. I refer you to the numerous threads on the left sidebar addressing this in terms of Attitudinal Healing, most noteably the thread about Healing the Shadow of Relationships and Do you feel like a victim.

I have found it helpful to think of relationships in terms of a color wheel. All of our life experiences going back to our earliest childhood comes together and makes us a color on the color wheel. When two people come together there colors have already long ago been defined. If one person is red, and the other is blue, the color of the relationship is going to be purple. It does not matter if you want the color to be green, forces beyond human control are in place and the relationship will be purple. If one becomes unhappy and thinks they are being abused because they wanted a green relationship instead of a purple one, they are in reality not looking in the mirror and seeing how it is there own makeup is preventing them from having the color of relationship they desire. This translates into whether or not your relationship is built around illusions of love, or real love, which is unconditional love. Any time we play the role of victim and begin blaming others for the color of our relationships we are engaged in very controlling, arrogant and manipulative behavior that is doing as much to harm us as the behavior of any other person.

Its unfortunate there is so much pain in relationships, but thinking of ourselves as victims does nothing but add to the pain. This community is built upon healing rather than playing what appears to be the politically correct game of blaming and being victims. We all make choices in this life and the most important one is to take responsiblity for who we are and how our behavior colors all our relationships.






---
Instead of quoting the Budda, be the Budda, be "the awakened one," which is what the word budda means.

Eckhart Tolle, "The Power of Now"

 
 
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