"Out beyond ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing there is a field. I'll meet you there." ----- Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Balkhi-Rumi, 13th century Sufi poet.

"Have faith that people do their best. I don't know anyone who would eat with pigs out of a trough in a muddy barnyard if he knew that a well-prepared meal was on the table in a clean house - do you?" Greg Baer

"The Secret in healing Narcissism is not to heal it at all, but to listen to it. Narcissism is a signal that the soul is not being loved sufficiently. The greater the Narcissism, the less love being given." ~ Thomas Moore, 'Care of the Soul'.

Q. Is it really possible to heal NPD?

A. Anything is possible. You do not have to be a negative statistic on a probablity curve of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Heal NPD :: Open Topic :: Perception and projection
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TcBrown
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Perception and projection ( 18:00:48 FriApr 8 2005 )

I have been noticing something which I find perplexing, disturbing, and yet in some ways beneficial to my own healing around the question of perception and projection. This has been in my mind for quite a while, but has become incredibly obvious since the links were added about these terms as they relate in Attitudinal Healing.

It seems to me that whenever there is a conflict in the real world or within this community someone, usually more than one, will invoke the teaching of how your perception is a mirror of your own thoughts, not reality, therefore any problem is yours, not mine. The difficulty arises once the other person or person(s) adopts the same stance and instead of either person doing honest inventory within themself they retreat to a game of guilt and passing blame.

In AH Jampolsky talks about how the game of guilt and blame in a relationship is like a game of hot potato, with both sides passing around the guilt and blame fast and furiously. Now there appears to be an added dimension to the game with perception being tossed in mix, creating more of a radioactive spitwad being heaved at others in an effort to prove one person right, and the other wrong.

Whenever I see this happening it is obvious that the teaching is being manipulated to suit one's needs and that result is more pain is added to old wounds. I'm not entirely sure how to communicate the harm being done once things reach this level. I have sent an email to Ken Hamilton asking for his wisdom on how to see how perception is a mirror, without always using it as the way to engage in even more passing of the old harmful words. It seems to me we are overdue for a chat with Ken and perhaps this would be a very important topic to focus on.

Meanwhile, I'm curious as to how people see the question of the mirror. As I write this it seems to me that whenever another person attempts to prove their way, or win an argument by telling another its their perception that is the problem, they are in fact retreating to old and painful ways. Thoughts?




---
Instead of quoting the Budda, be the Budda, be "the awakened one," which is what the word budda means.

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speerflaura
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Re: Perception and projection ( 21:16:29 FriApr 8 2005 )

I understand precisely what you mean. I think the problem arises because the formulation of perception as a mirror is wrong. It's not. Not always. There exists such a thing as Ultimate Reality. A right relation to Ultimate Reality is one of the descriptions (in religious terms) of salvation.

  
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TcBrown
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Re: Perception and projection ( 22:12:29 FriApr 8 2005 )

Quote: speer



I understand precisely what you mean. I think the problem arises because the formulation of perception as a mirror is wrong. It's not. Not always. There exists such a thing as Ultimate Reality. A right relation to Ultimate Reality is one of the descriptions (in religious terms) of salvation.



Here again we see things differently. I believe the teaching to be accurate and be based upon considerable experience and documentation. What I see happening is not a error in the teaching, but how it is being implemented by students. This is a fascinating subject to me and I have started a offline discussion with a couple of people much more versed in AH. I admit my own understanding is very much in an early stage of development. I have taken the liberty of inviting Ken Hamilton for the chat I mentioned and now await a confirmation of date and time.

Tony



---
Instead of quoting the Budda, be the Budda, be "the awakened one," which is what the word budda means.

Eckhart Tolle, "The Power of Now"

 
 
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Re: Perception and projection ( 02:30:52 SatApr 9 2005 )

One's perception is their "reality". It must be respected. Only one can change their own perception.

If I disagree with somone's perception, all I can do is state what mine is and then let go. The other person can agree or not agree with it by stating thiers and then let go. I can reflect on what they stated and decide to change or not change mine.

The conflict arises when attempting to change someone elses perspective. Only I can change mine and only you can change yours.

My reality is very different than the person I was involved with. I can neither change his ,nor can he change mine.

Conflict arises if we don't accept this. Mirroring to me is listening. Listening and accepting. It isn't listening and changing. It's understanding that each others experience is different. They are not one and the same. My experience is neither right nor wrong,but simply my experience. Your experience is neither right nor wrong,but simply your experience.

that's as deep as I get...:smile:
talia

  
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Re: Perception and projection ( 02:33:17 SatApr 9 2005 )

grrrrr....forgot to log in....above post was mine....

  
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TcBrown
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Re: Perception and projection ( 02:40:15 SatApr 9 2005 )

Some thoughts on this question from Ken Hamilton:





I know that each of us arrives at our perceptions according to the circumstances of our lives, mostly from before any maturity. When a conflict such as that which you describe arises, there's a fundamental fear behind the attachment to the perception--in both cases! AH says, "Let's let go of attachments and find out what the basic fear is so we
can build out to any understanding and appreciation for both viewpoints. Rushworth Kidder in "How Good People Make Tough Choices" says that 80% of all ethical situations comprise a dilemma of there being a truth to
both sides of the situation. It's only through a willingness to talk that clarification occurs. The attitudinal choice is one of peace and defenselessness. The combination of the two is the most powerful of all attitudinal choices.

[/quote]


The final comment of course brings us back to the idea which rests at the root of both A Course in Miracles and AH, In our defenselessness our safety rests. Perceptions of the nature I'm describing, and the conflicts which are everywhere around them, are fairly obviously a result of some defenses that are being built on both sides of relationships.

Ken has eagerly agreed to join us in a chat on this subject that will take place next Tuesday evening at 8:30pm EDT. Now I'm off to my once delayed romantic dinner in hopes that I can keep my eyes open long enough to enjoy the moment.

:wave:



---
Instead of quoting the Budda, be the Budda, be "the awakened one," which is what the word budda means.

Eckhart Tolle, "The Power of Now"

 
 
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Re: Perception and projection ( 15:42:44 SatApr 9 2005 )

I agree the difficulty here is with how people are viewing this and not with the idea, ,which I do believe has consierdable merit. Isn't this a case where our egos are storming in and preventing us from hearing the real message and looking at how our own thoughts affect our entire world?

  
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Re: Perception and projection ( 16:32:20 SatApr 9 2005 )

I was once told that the Dalai Lama when asked about the question of perception said something along the lines of...99% of what we see is based on our perception and 99% of our perception is flawed.........I think this topic is a fascinating one...as far as another person telling me that my perception is the root of a problem...How Do They Know That ?????? To me that suggests a misunderstanding of the premise that our perception is created by what we mirror internally onto the external.....if we accept this premise then surely the only perception I can be responsible for is my own however flawed it may be....I cannot tell you what your perception is because I am not you....I think sometimes when we are asserting our own perception for ourselves it can come across as if we are trying to impose our perception...if another person cannot see my peception I do not have to feel that it is not valid but there is an area I feel we can drift into at times...I want you to validate my perception because its hard to be the only person who sees things this way...as someone who believes himself to exhibit many Npd traits I have spent a lot of time in my life thinking I was the only one who felt like this or saw the world this way....I am alos sure I have upset a number of people by trying too hard to get them to see it...intersetingly for me the times when I have met kindred spirits has mostly been in the context of my spiritual quest which I personally cannot seperate from the rest of my life....feeling like I am moving off topic now so will now begin shutting up.....:flush:



---
"The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too.
All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise occurred.
A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.
Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now."
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Re: Perception and projection ( 17:46:35 SunApr 10 2005 )

I borrowed this quote from the article thingy on perceptions by Jampolsky
Quote:



As long as we think that what we see with our eyes and hear with ears is true, we will believe that everyone is exactly the same. But relationships go awry when we expect others to perceive, assimilate, and react exactly we do. When something happens that proves we’re not the same, our egos tell us to argue, cajole, and in every way possible try to convince the other person that their view of the world is wrong and that we are right, we frequently become disillusioned and upset, with deep feelings of separation. We may even believe that love is only possible if two people’s perceptions match perfectly.


This appears to speak rather directly to the problem Tony is talking about where people are fighting about perceptions. It also seems to support what kpan says about how we try to impose our perceptions on others. At times I find it rather humorous, albeit annoying as heck, to hear others perceptions of how NPDers think, talk and walk. There was a time when I might have tried to live or down to others perceptions. As I grow stronger in my sense of self I have much more awareness of my own perceptions and even kind of appreciate how they make me unique.

  
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Re: Perception and projection ( 19:10:31 SunApr 10 2005 )

To me part of healing is changing my perceptions from negative to positive, and I can feel it lightening the way I'm living my life. I had a problem last week when I noticed how dark and negative the perceptions of my son seemed to be. I felt he had learned this from me. It seemed there was 2 problems with it, 1 that it was darkening how he sees the world and 2 he seemed to believe that seeing things in other ways (as we all do) was all wrong, and that what he was seeing was the only right. I'm not sure how it went over but I mentioned it.

If someone seems to have a trend of very negative perceptions should you point it out, or should you just maintain a strong base of your own positive perceptions (if you can), and hope that eventually they will end up mirroring that instead. In this case the someone is very close to me and I feel he models his way of dealing with the world after me, anyway. I am trying to improve mine, and wondering what is the best way to help him leave some of our mutual bad habits behind.

  
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