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Healing becomes possible when all parties in a relationship come to see each other as co-creators of the relationship rather then attacker, and victim.
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The time is now 02:06:55 Wed May 22 2013
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4 human beings online in the last 15 minutes - 0 Friend(s) of Narcissus, 0 covert NPDers and 4 Beloved and cherished GUEST(s) of Narcissus. (Most ever was 57 at 01:37:31 Fri Sep 11 2009)
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ameera 
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 15:28:50 FriJan 9 2004 ) | |
There is a saying, and those of us who come from the West Indies, or who are familiar with that culture might
be familiar with it. It goes, "A monkey knows what tree to climb". All of the partners I have had in my life time have had very similiar narcissistic traits, and all of them, without question, hated my little sister on sight. I firmly believe it is because my sister has narcissistic traits. I believe we send out signals to people we meet as to what we're willing to deal with and what we will accept. For a Narcissist, at least in my experience, they are trying to establish how far they can go. When I was in a Domestic Violence support group, we spent a lot of time trying to lay the blame for the abuse where is should rightfully go, with the abuser, and that was because the "victims" had started to participate in their own abuse by taking responsibility for their partners behavior. Now this was useful for me, because at the time, I didn't believe I was being abused. I had watched my mother and father fight like cats and dogs, and I had been a victim of sexual abuse, so I thought my relationship was normal. However, very soon after, I started to really look at my past relationships and the similarities, and I had to admit that there was something in me that was attracted to or attracting there types of people.
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Having_a_Life
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 03:21:01 SatJan 10 2004 ) | |
I absolutely contributed to my husband's behavior. I am ... or was ... too contientous and too responsible. When we married, he had never lived on his own. He went straight from living at home into the Navy. On the other hand, I had lived on my own and worked and spent a couple of years at college before I joined the Navy.
When we married, our son was born weeks later. I became a stay at home mom with the skills to run the house and family. All of those years ago, I took over ALL of those responsibilities. It was a huge mistake that became ingrained.
I also think that the military moves contributed to my co-dependency. Every time we transferred, I was totally out of my element, isolated and miserable for the first year. I was dependent upon him.
It's interesting to me that when I finally found a therapist, he supported me ... for a while. There came a point where he demanded that I not go. Rather than fight with him about it, I lied each and every week for several years and destroyed the insurance info. Finally, one weekend after I had moved to finish school, he confronted me with an insurance advisory. He told me that we shouldn't have secrets from each other. I held my ground. I told him that I had indeed been lying and would continue to lie because I was going to go and would not fight about it.
It occurs to me that he didn't cope well with my personal growth, hence his demand that I quit going.
Cheers!
Life
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hestia
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 16:01:54 SunJan 11 2004 ) | |
Boy, y'all have been busy this week!
When I first went to counseling, the counselor said I might be co-dependent. My mom and dad both had alcoholic parents, and my mom was sexually abused by her dad, and I'm almost sure my dad was physically abused at least by his mom. However, by the end of therapy, she said she thought I was not co-dependent but had some co-dependent tendencies. When I read co-dependent literature, some of it fits, and some of it doesn't. The only book I've ever read that made me think, "This is me!" is Trapped in the Mirror, about adult children of narcissists. But I still read co-dependent literature and glean what is helpful for me from it.
Part of what is confusing for me is that so much of what is called "co-dependent" is actually also normal social conditioning for women. I was raised to take care of a man, to make men comfortable, and to pretend I was less intelligent than I am. My dad literally said, "You should either not get married and have a career, or get married and realize the deal is that the wife is to take care of the husband. That's just the way it is."
So for me, I guess this is another case where the label is only as helpful as it is helpful, if that makes sense. I know I have issues with taking care of myself and boundaries and knowing what "normal" is, and I know I have alcoholism in my family background, so I take the co-dependency lit seriously. But I am also careful not to let it define me or make me feel bad about myself. Because I am also a very strong, independent person, and I really don't need to be needed. By the way, there is a new book, which I haven't read yet, called The Narcissistic Family. It is about people who have co-dependent tendencies but are not married to addicts. I guess they've found some shared tendencies in their families, namely that the individuals in the family exist to meet the family's needs, instead of the other way around.
Maybe this is why individual therapy is so important. So we can sort out what fits us and what doesn't with an objective person who can keep us honest!
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Balbrenny 
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 14:17:25 MonJan 12 2004 ) | |
Mel,
I agree with you. When I first met my ex I was recovering from other personal trauma (being diagnosed bipolar, etc.) and my self-esteem was at an all-time low. He, on the other hand, presented as a guy who had it all together - Australian gold medallist in his chosen sport and on a good career path. He was also 8 years younger than me and I was soooo flattered by his attentions!! Like Ameera said "A monkey knows what tree to climb". Yes, I hero-worshipped to begin with - he was so many things that I was not!
Like Hestia, I have been told by my therapist that I am not codependant but I am aware of codependancy tendencies and issues. Again, as Hestia says, much of what can be labeled as codependancy is also what is normal social conditioning for women. As a woman's libber from the early 1970s, I was, in any relationship, very conscious of many of the things that women are supposed to do and very resistant to doing them - I expected my ex to do his share of the housework, for example - and he played the part of the liberated male to a T.
But - and I am not trying to shake responsibility here - he conditioned me over a long period to be subservient to his demands. He did this through his moods. I am a normally easy-going person who cares a lot for other people ( 20 + years in welfare work) so I just gave in to a lot of things because I reasoned that, if it meant so much to him, I didn't really care. Of course, this also led to deep-rooted resentment because I was not getting my needs met.
I have always been a very strong, independent person with strong views - but I have also always been a person who cares deeply about others. I am not denying my part in the development of our relationship but I wonder if some people with NPD develop relationships with people who are very caring because those sorts of people serve to bolster their esteem.
In hindsight, I can see that that for many years I treated my ex almost like I would another child. Boosting his self-esteem, treading gently when I knew that he was in the wrong, stroking his ego. Much of this is bolstered by popular myths around men being less in touch with their emotions and seeking a mother-figure. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" stuff.
In many ways, this fits with the model of people with NPD reacting in many ways as children. The relationships that they would then find most satisfying would be with people who have a strong mothering streak. Again, back to what Hestia was saying (sorry if I'm rambling but it's 1 a.m.), not only do most women have a mothering instinct but we are taught from an early age to care for others - and a man with NPD would appeal to those instincts on many levels.
Does any of that make sense? Like I said, it's late and I've had a couple of glasses of wine (or 3 or 4 -who's counting anyway?!!).
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ameera
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 14:36:40 MonJan 12 2004 ) | |
Balbrenny, I don't think you're rambling. You're making perfect sense. To put it simplistically. If an N develops a false self and disassociates himself from his real feelings, he has not emotionally developed passed the age that he was when this happened.
For example, I once read that an alchoholic who begins drinking at a young age, because his reality is being alterred by the alchohol, never gets to experience the events in puberty that allow him to grow up and become an adult, and as such, when he /she becomes sober, he/she has to literally go back to that time period (emotionally) and learn some of the lessons would have been learned, if not for the addiction. I think you can use the same train of thought when thinking of someone who develops NPD. And what better person to partner with such a man (or woman) than a mother/father figure?
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If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you; what you do not bring forth will destroy you.
- The Gospel of St. Thomas Logian |
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hestia
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Re: Co-Dependancy ( 15:51:55 MonJan 12 2004 ) | |
This thread is so true!!! I remember thinking after I had my son, "Well, I have two children now." Linda, like you, I am a feminist, and my husband also played the liberated male to a T. But he did start to slowly control me through his moods. I allowed him to do this by caring to much, being too responsible, for his moods. But the other piece is that when his mood swung too low, he would go into a rage at the world, which would frighten me. Given my upbringing, as much as I wanted an equal relationship, it was just too easy to fall into meeting his needs. And gosh but the smoldering resentment just ate me alive. I like Amerra's saying about the monkey and the tree, and I will also remember what she says about the mother/father figure. If I'm ever in a relationship again, I'm going to have to watch out to keep from stepping into that role.
Mel, your fear about repeating the cycle is the big one for me. But I am inspired by TC and his talk about it being worth the risk. Maybe the only way to break the cycle is to keep trying until we get it right. Otherwise, while we may not be in relationship with a SO, and the cycle is pushed into the background, it's still not broken. Or is staying single the only way to get out of it? Don't know. I'm with you. Time for coffee...
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