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Shout Box
Healing becomes possible when all parties in a relationship come to see each other as co-creators of the relationship rather then attacker, and victim.
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5 human beings online in the last 15 minutes - 0 Friend(s) of Narcissus, 0 covert NPDers and 5 Beloved and cherished GUEST(s) of Narcissus. (Most ever was 57 at 01:37:31 Fri Sep 11 2009)
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Mlashtok
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 22:26:26 FriMar 5 2004 ) | |
I've read that if an NPD couple are both successful, attractive people who give each other a lot of adultation and narcissistic supplies, then it can work at least for a while. However, they nearly always run into trouble when it comes to intimacy, because inside of course they're not happy with themselves. I would think that two narcissists who are really struggling would not go together well at all. And then there's Vaknin's thing about the inverted narcissist or echo personality disorder, or whatever. Sam's site is the only place I've heard of it though, so it's doubtful as to whether there's any truth there.
Matt
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You know, of course, where this other world lies hidden. It is the world of your own soul that you seek. Only within yourself exists that other reality for which you long. I can give you nothing that has not already its being within yourself... All I can give you is the impulse, the key. I can help you to make your own world visible. That is all.
- Herman Hesse, Steppenwolf |
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CoolBlonde
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 00:58:07 SatMar 6 2004 ) | |
I think just about everyone I've ever been involved with or even just friends with have been Narcissistic to some degree, or they had Borderline or Antisocial traits. I think I can safely say that my two longest lasting relationships were with full-blown NPDers. I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to get involved with people that I can relate to and understand best, so that would kind of rule out "normal" people. I don't think I have ever even dated a totally normal person because I don't have anything in common with them and I don't understand them, and they don't relate to me, either. There is no chemistry there at all. That's why I'm not quite sure how these long-term relationships between emotionally healthy "normal" people and NPDers can happen. Dating, marriage, kids, the whole works. There has to be some chemistry there, some dynamic going on, on both sides, to keep two people together that long.
So to answer your question about two Narcissists getting involved, I think this happens ALL the time. I know I'm not unique so I'm not the only one. As for the dynamics of these relationships, in my experience, there is virtually no communication there. This works just fine for both of us, of course, but it starts to get boring and strained after awhile. Then it tends to be a problem when it comes time for the relationship to move to the next level, so it usually ends at that point.
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ameera 
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 04:28:59 SatMar 6 2004 ) | |
Thanks Coolblonde and Matt, for responding. Coolblonde, I have never been involved, to my knowledge, with a man who did not have at least some narcisstic traits, and I seem to be irresistably drawn to the emotionally unavailable. Matt, no more talk of how we would make a good team Just picture a fisherman throwing a line into the river and hooking a great big Ameera fish  The relationship that I'm describing has some interesting characteristics. 1)There is a need to maintain the image of a good marriage  (grandiosity on both sides) 2)There is no communication. :hiding: (Partners change subjects, twist words, "forget" what has happened, et cetera. 3)There is a lot of distance.  (The partners do not spend any time together as a couple unless they are doing #1) 4)Projection :argue: Each partner accuses the other partner of being awful, and both maintain they are perfectly okay) 5)Infantile attachment  (although both claim to not want to be together, neither one will leave, and one will chase the other if the threat of seperation seems imminent) It is particularly frustrating to observe their behavior, because both are very apparently miserable with each other. What does this sound like to you guys? Just curious!
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Into every abyss I still bear the blessing of my affirmation . . . I live in my own light. I drink back into myself the flames that break from me - Nietzsche |
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ameera
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 04:56:50 SunMar 7 2004 ) | |
Coolblonde, ten years, plus. But the relationship started off with a bang. Her mother died of cancer -- she had just met him and became pregnant like three months later. Two or three months after that they're living together, and months after the first baby is born, she is pregnant again. A couple of months into the pregnancy she gives him an ultimatim: Marriage, or me and the kids walk.
They get married, and she get's pregnant with baby number three. In the midst of this is hell on earth, lots of arguing, fighting, trying to change each other, et cetera. In the midst of this comes baby number four. Then she gets diagnosed with cancer, and has a masechtomy, after which, they pretty much go back to the same routine of seperate but not so seperate lives.
Like I've said, both maintain they could care less if the other got run over by a truck and died, but will not even take the first steps to either a) try to repair the relationship through joint and individual counseling or b) seperate.
What do you think?
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Into every abyss I still bear the blessing of my affirmation . . . I live in my own light. I drink back into myself the flames that break from me - Nietzsche |
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ameera
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 14:04:01 MonMar 8 2004 ) | |
Thanks for replying, Coolblonde. I agree. Must be getting something out of it, but what? I think the babies were an attempt to make the family look good, you know. But both contend never wanted them, were trapped, caught off guards -- a lot of Doo doo. I do feel sorry for the kids. You know, just another example of how the cycle continues. Children already are acting out. Lying, stealing, fighting in school. Parents show up with the halo for each child. Of course my children, a reflection of me, are perfect. Funny, I think that's the only time they agree. 
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Into every abyss I still bear the blessing of my affirmation . . . I live in my own light. I drink back into myself the flames that break from me - Nietzsche |
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CoolBlonde
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 07:19:18 TueMar 9 2004 ) | |
| Quote: ameera at 14:04:01 Mon Mar 8 2004 |
Must be getting something out of it, but what?
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I have always heard that people from dysfunctional families tend to get involved in relationships where they can re-enact the problem relationships they had growing up. It's supposed to be an attempt to resolve their unresolved issues from childhood, except that the issues usually never get resolved that way so they just keep repeating the cycle over and over. That makes sense to me. It's probably a habit for them and it's comfortable and familiar. Also, neither one of them probably knows how to break out of it if they've never learned any other way to relate. They talk about this in the book "Mindful Loving" that I'm reading now, except that the author has an interesting view on this. He says that if a marriage is spiritually based as opposed to ego-based, then when these unresolved issues come up, they can be an opportunity for growth since the partners can help each other work through them. It sounds like a great theory to me, although I think both partners would have to be pretty committed to spiritual values to work through all the issues that some of us have. Interestingly, the author also included a chapter on "Spiritual Divorce", for when all else fails I guess. At least he's realistic in acknowledging that some marriages can't be healed, so I think that gives the book credibility.
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ameera
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Re: Two NPDs in a Pod? ( 17:30:02 TueMar 9 2004 ) | |
Hi, Coolblonde.
If you're interested, there's another book on this subject: Getting the Love you Want, by Harville Hendrix. It's guide for couples who want to save their marriage, and since I have never been in a relationship that I considered worth saving, it's something I would have never picked up - but, at least to me, it is an eye-opening book.
The childhood reenactment is one I relate to very deeply. EVERY one of my siblings is reenacting the same play, although apart from me, my family is not one to look too deeply at their behavior. Denial aint no river in Egypt, you know what I mean?
All of the girls (and their are five of us) have been in relationships with men who are irresponsible, emotionally unavailalbe, angry and distant, and who have a strong, controlling women in their lives, whether mother, sister, ex-girlfriend, ex-wife, present girlfriend, present wife, that we battle against in trying to change (control) the man.
For my brother, he is involved with a controlling woman, who he plays my mother against. (They hate each other) but both engage in warfare over who will have the most influence over him.
I believe this is my family script. My mother (controlling, domineering, narcisstic woman) fought to control my (angry, abusive, controlling emotionally unavailabile father). She never succeeded, and we are trying to do what she didn't. Except by picking the same type of men, in the same types of situations, we will never, ever succeed.
It is why I found the above relationship so bizarre and so frustrating. It has hooked me in, trying to figure out ways to get through to both spouses and save the children, save the family, save the day!!! (saving myself in the process).
I wonder if anyone else here can relate to this?
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Into every abyss I still bear the blessing of my affirmation . . . I live in my own light. I drink back into myself the flames that break from me - Nietzsche |
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But that's a rant for another day.