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Healing becomes possible when all parties in a relationship come to see each other as co-creators of the relationship rather then attacker, and victim.
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Lost and Confus
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How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 18:07:07 FriJul 23 2004 ) | |
Just a few days ago, I realized that my boyfriend might have NPD or some kind of personality disorder. He's got a drug problem, and I have been dealing with it for 7/12 years. I've had enough of EVERYTHING! Being put down, made to think I'm the crazy one, manipulated into doing things I would never dream of until he came along, etc. I want to get out and fast!
I've confronted him about his crack addiction many times over, with the last time being this past Sunday. He mocked me, acted so uncaring, extremely cold-hearted, brutally honest, blamed me basically. I of course thought I had said or did something wrong and immediately wanted to work on fixing our problems. He said "One more time, and that's it, I'm tired of trying to fix things" Believe me, I'm the one always trying, and so much so that I don't even know who the real me is anymore, because I've changed so much of myself to suit him. We have 2 small children together, and while they miss him like crazy when he's gone during the week for work, they end up running to me when dad gets aggrevated with them within minutes of walking through the door. I want my kids to have a normal life, and don't want them blaming me for keeping their father away from them, which I'm sure he will point out to them, that it's my fault he can't come home or see them. How do I end this without the kids getting caught in the middle or being scarred from this? I know we all deserve a better life without him in it, but short of him disappearing off the face of the earth, which I know will never happen, how do I end it with him and still have him in my life through the kids? I know his family will turn on me, he's great at elliciting pity from them. I know I need to cut ties with him, I'm just not sure how to go about it since we have children together.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Jen
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EverVigilant
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 18:38:27 FriJul 23 2004 ) | |
From the little bit you described of how your husband treats him, I would say you need to protect your kids from him, and that they are better off growing up with only a loving mother than under a troubled parental relationship.
Therefore, you shouldn't at all beat yourself up for wanting out of the relationship. It's what's best for your kids, and it's what's best for you. That something is the best for you is a perfectly valid reason to do something (and this is something I still need to learn myself!)
If you do decide to part with this man, let it end on human terms. He has some serious problems, but always remember that he is a human being and, especially given the addictions and the way he acts, he is probably unhappy and in pain most of the time. But whether you're with him or without him will not change that, and leaving him might very well be a catalyst for him seeking help.
So understand that he is a human being and try to have some compassion if you can, but also understand that you do not need to subject yourself to unhappiness, or your children to a potentially damaging upbringing.
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LostandConfused
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 21:53:39 SunJul 25 2004 ) | |
Thanks for your replies. I do realize he is only human, and I know he isn't to blame for everything. I have compassion and empathy for his problems, but I know I can't help him. I believe his drug problem is connected to his other problems. without going through his whole life history, his parents loved him and shunned him, gave him things he wanted then told him he wasn't deserving of things, would help him out, then say they washed their hands of him. They would push him away, then draw him back in with promises. So I know and understand he has had rough times. It seems he is only doing what he has learned. For the past week, I have read everything I could find on personality disorders, including cocaine addiction, and everything fits with his personality. I'd like to see him get some help, and I know I cannot do for him what he must do for himself. I realize I can only change myself. I don't intend to make anybody look like the bad guy, I want us all to come out of this as well as possible. I'm glad I found this site, it makes it easier to read about others going through this, and realizing I'm not alone. I was told by a friend that I could have him committed againt his will through a physician or police officer, since I know he won't seek help on his own, and while he admits to having a drug problem, he doesn't see anything wrong with how he treats me and others. He's got a "God" complex. He says nobody can touch him, and believes he can do no wrong, he's entitled to whatever he can get, whether he steals or scams for it. He actually says he God, but not in any religeous sense. Rereading my first post, it's coming off as sort of whiny, which I didn't intend at all. I was just so amazed to find this place and get some things out of my jumbled mind, so I apologize if I sounded like I was a helpless victim looking for sympathy  I do intend to look more thoroughly through this board and the links. I need to have all the info I can get to prepare myself. Thank you all again for replying and giving me your insights into this, it helps hearing from others that are going or have gone through this. Jen
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LostandConfused
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 07:11:21 MonJul 26 2004 ) | |
I've been reading some posts on here, and felt that I should add some more to this one about myself and the goings on of our relationship, which i really didn't specify at first. I was molested as a child, off and on until I was 18. When I told my mother, she didn't and still doesn't believe anything went on. I was belittled as a child, always being called stupid by my mother, she still does this to me. So I suffer from very low self-esteem. On top of this, I have been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, OCD and PTSD. I often put others before myself. I tried to commit suicide this past February because I thought I was doing something wrong in our relationship for him to treat me the way he did. I felt worthless and figured I was the cause of his misery and negative emotion. I thought that by giving my boyfriend all the love I could, he would reciprocate. Not that I smother him. I used to kiss him when he walked through the door, and stopped when he would tell me, I just got in, give me some breathing room. I accepted that, but he has reminded me of those times and says I never do it anymore and he wants to know why. He pushes me away when I try to be affectionate, like sitting with him on the couch, hugging him, etc. He always says he's not in the mood. Not that i am trying to get him " in the mood", I just want to be close to him. This wasn't an everyday thing, a couple weeks would go by without us so much as even brushing up against each other, so I would wonder why he didn't want to be close. We went camping this past weekend, (the kids have never been)and he wanted to have sex, I asked why we couldn't make love and he said it required too many emotions. I asked how he could be in a relationship with someone he was supposed to be in love with without feeling emotions. He replied that he feels them, he just doesn't like to deal with them, whether good or bad. He acknowledges that he is cold emotionally, saying if I don't like it , too bad, that's how he is, cold hearted and brutally honest. He has told me that if he gets hurt, he's going to hurt someone back 10 times more. At his fathers funeral, he broke down and as I went to hold him, his mother told him to hold it in and get it together. I see and hear the mixed signals he gets. I don't blame him for the way he is, but I'm more aware of how he acts and reacts to things that happen between us. He's quick to anger when I disagree with him and he says that I always have to be right, it's my way or no way. It's not that I have to have my own way, it's just THE right way that I want. I apologize when I'm wrong, but when he's wrong, he's still right, and it's like pulling teeth to get him to say sorry for anything, and when he does, it's just to "shut me up". He tells me things I "need to do", and I have asked him can you please ask me to do something instead of telling me, and he says, you know what I mean. When I'm telling him about the kids and my day or something someone said to me, he'll interrupt as I'm speaking and go on about something that happened to him, unrelated to anything I was speaking about. He's not interested in things I have to say unless he's a part of the conversation, or it has to do with him. He brags about his past, stealing cars, rolling people for money, drugs, getting shot at by police, having bounties on his head, glorifying his life. He hints around at illegal things he wants to do or is planning to do, and not just to me, to other people too, and basks in the glory of their reactions. He says he doesn't care what other people think of him, but asks what people say about him. He lies about things and if I find out the truth about them, he denies it happening or being said, saying I was mistaken, or just trying to start a fight with him. He's more loving toward the kids when we fight. He feels entitled to more money, a higher position in his job, more power over people, but has no problem missing work, or leaving early or not doing what he's supposed to. Then he feels slighted and says, I do this for them , I do that for them, and this is the way they treat me. He's a painter. His father was a painter, and was in a very high position in the company, and my bf feels he's entitled to the same benefits that his father recieved just because he's his father's son. He's very envious of things that other people have, and if he can, will get those same things. For example, a neighbor has a mototcycle, and while my bf has been talking about getting one for some time, now that the neighbor has one, bf has this attitude, saying, if that piece of s*!t can get one of those, I'm definitely getting one. He got caught with coke in his car, and is convinced a neighbor set him up, but the neighbor had no way of knowing bf was going for anything, (I didn't even know), they don't speak to one another, and this neighbor isn't liked by anyone, so nobody would have told him anything.
He started replicating the way another neighbor friend talked, dressed and acted when around him, and listened to rap music , though he's always listened to rock and metal music, but when with another friend from years ago, he will act like a wiseguy, mafia-like, cold, laid back, ever watching people, talking about what scam they will pull next, who they were going to roll, how women are nothing but bitches, etc. He takes on other peoples personalities. He recently told me he is seeing his father on jobs he's working at, places his father used to work. I read with coke addiction, it's possible to have hallucinations. He believes that doing drugs will help him cope with that, but it may actually be causing them. He won't go to the doctor, no matter what is wrong with him. He was married before, and said he married because he knocked her up, never loved her, but went on for 5 years and had another child with this woman. Everything was basically her fault, she's an idiot, she tried to keep him on a leash, tried to control him. I didn't know this woman, I believed what he told me, but see what she endured. I am NOT bashing him, I just wanted to show the way he acts and reacts and to give a more in depth view into how our relationship was. These traits are what led me to believe he has a personality disorder. I know I'm not a psychologist, and far from being qualified to diagnose him, but alot of what I'm reading is pointing to this.
I don't see this ending in any way but with resentment and anger, unfortunately. I'm going to try my best at ending this without name calling or finger pointing, because I know how I was treated by some people, and the deep emotional hurt that goes with it, and I realize he is most likely feeling the same way. I knew the relationship had been "off" for awhile, but it felt that having this was better than having nothing. I'm building myself up to do this, and am hoping by next month to have myself in therapy. And Mel, you are absolutely right in saying if I take care of myself first, that will take care of my children. I know it's true but often times forget I do need to put myself first if I am going to be any good to other people. And I thank you for reminding me of that.
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LostandConfused
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 04:58:16 SatAug 14 2004 ) | |
Thanks for your reply. And you reminded me, probably about 4-5 years ago, bf took a bunch of epilipsy meds, layed down next to me, put the empty pill bottle on the bed, laid a note on me saying basically that he was no good, he couldn't do anything right, we were better off without him, etc. I woke up and saw this paper and bottle and started shaking him like mad, asking him if he really did take the pills, and why. I told him I was going to call his mother, and he forbid it, I told him I hated him because I wanted thim to be sorry that he would think of doing something like this and scaring the hell out of me. And in looking back, I don't think he took those pills at all. I know the bottle was almost full, he stopped taking the meds, but never threw them away. He wasn't sick, didn't make himself throw up and didn't have any signs of OD. I can't recall what had happened that day. But I think it was just a ploy of some kind.
He also has told me in the past that if I ever left him for someone else, he would kill them, and then kill himself in front of me so I would have this on my head for the rest of my life.
And I don't know why I didn't just turn and run right then and there. I figured it was his way of saying how much he loved me, and he had no other way of expressing how true and deep his love was. But that was sick and wrong, and binded me to him out of fear. We were" together" over the weekend, and he kissed me goodbye, which he hasn't done in over a month. We talked this morning over the phone and he said I love you before hanging up, another thing he hasn't done in over a month. I think us being together has set his mind that things are ok with us again and we're going to move on like nothing I previously posted happened. But I don't feel that way, in my mind, this didn't fix anything. I would be easier to go on and ignore everything, but it will just happen again when we get into an arguement. I needed the closeness of him and was reminded of our happier times in the distant past, and know it wasn't right to do it. It's very hard to let go, but harder to stay. I'm trying to get on my own two feet for my own and my kids sake before doing anything to end this. I thought it would be easy to just end it, but it's going to take awhile as I'm still dependant on him in ways I am trying to change right now. I have a fear of driving, and did get my permit, one step in the right direction. So as there is no way for me to get the necessities for my family, I still have to rely on him for that. I'm also not making waves with anything. I talk calmly to him about things I know in the past have set him off. If I feel an arguement coming on, I change the subject or diffuse it. I do feel so much more empowered having the info I do now, plus plenty of support.
I appreciate your advice, and will look into it. I'm trying to do this with as little involvement from others as possible, other than the emotional support, but not at the risk of my family being hurt. I'm not afraid physically of him, but once that comes into play, I will take whatever help I can get for my family.
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 22:17:26 WedAug 18 2004 ) | |
I stayed with my husband for the kids sake and now recognized I sacraficed way to much of myself in the process. My husband began devaluing me on the day we got married. In year 2, when I was ready to leave I became pregnant, and now believe he purposely tried to get me pregnant while knowing I did not want another child under the circumstances. A few years later when I discovered for the first time the many lies he had told and again wanted to leave he did not want me to go and manipulated me using my strong family values and a butch of lying promises to work things out. As a condition, at my insistence, he stopped his overtly abusive behavior but unbeknownst to me he then began covertly undermining everything I did. As a result in year 10 I became extremely ill and following that illness I finally emotionally detached from him, and accepted he was not working at our relationship with mutual good will and I learned to use boundries. They definately helped me to survive and enabled me to begin healing. I now worry about how the decision to stay may have affected my children and I am just as concerned about it as I was when I thought leaving would have hurt them too much before. My oldest is a healthy happy adult now and doing well in his 4th year of college. My youngest is a senior in high school also doing very well. However, I know he will still be very hurt next year when I leave and I am very concerned about that. The sad reality is my youngest has never really seen me live as a healthy happy person. And even now he does not have enough life experience to appreciate how a loving relationship should be and will likely feel extremely sad for his dad. I regret not exposing the abusiveness and the lies. I suffered in silence and recognize now that was a mistake.
Sitting on the other side now, my advice is don't stay if you are unhappy. It most likely will only get worse. None of your efforts to make it better will work and you will become more emotionally crippled if you allow the slow errosion of your heart and soul to continue. To become unhealthy yourself is not in the best interest of the children in the long run. I also do not know what my husband will do when I leave. I hope he does not try anything to stop me. I am still trying to figure out how to go about it and causing the least amount of damage to everyone, but go I will, no matter what, and I have absolutely no doubts about it being the right thing now.
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 17:52:22 FriAug 20 2004 ) | |
Gailabelle, thank you for your insight and best of luck with your situation. I hope you can get out with as much peace and ease as possible considering the relationship Deckhandsdaughter, thank you. I do realize it will take a long time to be free, and 6 months without children seems a long time, but rational being in a relationship with an NPD'er. Not lost anymore, partially confused still, but learning and growing as I type and read everyones messages throughout the board I spoke with my bf this weekend, informed him of what I have found out, have been reading, and told him that I suspected him of having a personality disorder and how I came to the conclusion. He laughed and had a look of disbelief. The other night, I asked him to take a personality test ( http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv) of which he scored high or very high in most cases. He isn't a reader, so I had to read the questions to him and told him to answer as honestly as possible, which I believe he did on most. He didn't understand the results, so I explained them and also talked about instances of his behaviour and some reasons as to why he would be like this. He is afraid of getting close to people, admits to backing off when someone gets too close, and said he's been hurt so many times in the past that he gets to a point where it's get hurt or be hurt. He thought I was pointing out his problems, but I told him I wasn't trying to do that, but merely showing him there are reasons for his actions, I have psychological problems too and it's nothing to be ashamed of. He was a product of his environment, as was I, but he doesn't have to live like this. He pointed to a pic of himself when he was 7 and said that was me, that person is dead now. He got epilepsy shortly after the pic was taken. He admitted to taking drugs because of his feelings of not being "normal" anymore. We talked for a good few hours, and he told me he's sensitive, which I said there is nothing wrong with a sensitive man, and crying once in a great while is normal, otherwise he will continue to let it out in anger and rage. I think I have gotten through to him on some level He didn't become this way overnight and it will take more than a few hours to change his behaviours. I have some hope for him! He said he tries to fix and change things but messes everything up. I gave him an instance of messing up his car. He put tranny fluid in the oil tank, but fixed it. I said if one solution didn't work, would you try more until the car was fixed? He said yes. I said that is also the same with life. If one thing doesn't work, you try other methods until you get it right or fix it. He said he has tried other ways with fixing things in his life but none work and I said I think he might just be going about things the wrong way, but is showing effort all the same in trying. I said I would be there 100% in helping him to kick his drug addiction and in modifying his behaviour to the best of my ability. People have tried to help him, especially his parents, but have told him in the past after trying to get him help that they give up, even thought in the most dire of circumstances they would still be there somewhat. I said hearing that from the people that you most trust to care for you hurts. And it is psychologically damaging to some extent to go through that. I told him I have a very open mind about everything now. He even asked me if he's done anything that has psychologically damaged me. I told him yes, he has, little things over the years that if done once or twice, would probably have had no affect on me. Little by little he has broken me down, not because it was for me doing something to him that he had to have payback, and I don't know for what reason other than hurting me because he was hurting, belittling me because he was low, making me feel worthless because that was how he was made to feel by others. By talking to him, I have a much better understanding of personality disorders and how people are affected by them. I can understand more his actions, though I don't and will never accept them. I have decided to give this some time to see if we can work on him opening up more, expressing his feelings and emotions in a more positive way, and hopefully giving more trust to others. His one big thing is trust. I tried to explain to him that just because he has been hurt so many times in the past doesn't mean he can't trust and open himself to others. It's a big risk for anyone to open up, not knowing if you are going to get hurt, or maybe finding true happiness. But it's a risk I think is worth taking. I'm done for now, will add updates as they come And thank you all for your answers, insights, wisdom, and encouragement. Every little bit helps! Jen
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Re: How do I leave when we have kids together? ( 19:03:58 FriAug 20 2004 ) | |
Good for you lost. I remember having many conversations with my husband about wanting him to see a counsellor because I felt he had many unaddressed issues from his past (this was long before I had ever heard of NPD or even imagined he had a personality disorder). He was in full denial and would never approach the subject. I probably went about it the wrong way in retrospect but just didn't have the knowledge that I have now. When I finally did get him to a counsellor, he just stopped going once she said things he didn't like. I guess I'm saying that you have done well, but it is a long hard road and I wish you the best of luck. I hope he can maintain an open mind to all this. Keep us up to date! And remember to take care of yourself first and foremost. Set those boundaries!! Take care, Mel
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