Heal NPD :: Family and Friends :: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy

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Little_by_Little

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The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 17:46:59 TueAug 17 2004 )

Yesterday I told you that my husband has been seeing not one but two therapists at the same time evidently to get more drugs. Obviously he has an addiction problem, but I don't think that begins to explain all of the lies he's told me both related to healing and stuff that I probably should know and in some cases would support him in what he was trying to do.

An example. He was fired from his job after the company changed ownership. I knew the change was coming and we talked about whether or not his job was in jeopard. He assured me on at least a half dozen times that he'd received a guarantee from the new management that he'd be retained. It was based on this assumption that I made plans to accept a volunteer position that would last the better part of a year. Les than a month after accepting this job he dropped the bombshell that he had been terminated and had been told to clear out of his office by the end of the week.

Now he is a relatively capable person and was able to find another job in two months. At first I thought the company had changed their mind and I was mad at the bosses. Later I learned that he had been told within a few days after the transfer of ownership that he would not be retained. In my mind this was nothing to be ashamed of. The truth is that it happens in business and I could have stayed in my old job while he searched for a new one. Maybe we could have even made accomodations to allow me to do the volunteer job in a much less stressful style than what I was faced with. Maybe this makes since to those of you who are NPD if so I'd love to hear an explanation.

I found the job thing to be strange, but nothing compared to what we went through 2 1/2 years ago. This is my second marriage and I've been very open with him about much of the details of my first husband. When we first met he told me that he had never been married, never had a girlfriend and that the only person he ever really cared about had been killed in a car wreck in college.

My husband's family is remote to say the least. He has a brother who is several years older and appears to live in Europe. His Mother and Father live in Florida and seem preoccupied with a pretty nice retirement. They almost never call, or make an effort participate in our life. He seems to have very few friends from before we met. In fact it was after our wedding before I met someone who turned out to be quite a good friend of his.

One night this friend told and I were alone and he told me the truth about at least part of my husband's past. It seemed he was partially truthful about this girl he said was his only previous love. In fact that were engaged to be married. All hell broke lose a month before their ceremony when she discovered that he was seeing another woman. Part of the story was that he had told this woman he would divorce the other one within a year and they'd get married. For the record that part of the story has never been confirmed.

The woman whom he almost married is still very alive and living less than two hours from where we currently live. This friend told me that my husband sometimes calls her and they have been known to get together for dinner. This shocked the pants off me and I felt I had to confront him about this woman he said was dead.

To my husband's credit he made little effort to deny the fact when I presented him the story his friend had told. However he has never apologized or made any effort to acknowledge that this has effected me in any way. Ultimately I think this whole mess lead him to therapy but getting him to talk about it is like prying teeth. I don't think he's still seeing this person, but I admit its an open question.

If you ask me he's wasted a lot of energy covering things and lying about events that there was no reason to lie about. So I guess I ask why?

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 18:03:55 TueAug 17 2004 )

That is mind-boggling. I'll go out on a limb and say most of us NPDers on this site have lied quite a bit in our past, but usually not without some good reason. Your husband's "crazy lying" really makes you scratch your head.

To me his lying just says clearly how insecure, scared, and self-hateful he is on a deeper level. He may not seem that way on the surface, but you have to be pretty out of touch with yourself to lie like this in the first place.

Matt

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You know, of course, where this other world lies hidden. It is the world of your own soul that you seek. Only within yourself exists that other reality for which you long. I can give you nothing that has not already its being within yourself... All I can give you is the impulse, the key. I can help you to make your own world visible. That is all.
- Herman Hesse, Steppenwolf

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Little_by_Little

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 18:11:19 TueAug 17 2004 )

I hope this is not seen as pushy but I'd like to know what a good reason is for lying? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just need someone to help me make since of a world I don't begin to understand.

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 19:21:29 TueAug 17 2004 )

There is no "good" reason for lying. Sometimes a person just has no idea that they don't need to lie. Don't try and make sense of it. You never will. Unless you can crawl into the head of the person who is doing the lying, and even then, it probably wouldn't make any sense because you just don't think the same way. All you can do is try and be understanding.

There is a book called "Loving The Self-Absorbed". It isn't really all that nice of a read, but it is realistic. I can't remember the author off the top of my head, but she does have some fairly good advice on how to live with a Narcisstic partner. Some of it seems a bit much for me, but I think you take what you need from it.

Mel

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TcBrown

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 19:53:52 TueAug 17 2004 )

Crazy lying is one of the trademarks of this disorder. In summary when a person lies in a situation where its obvious to all concerned its a lie, or if there is no obvious real/or preceived benefits from the lie, or if the person might actually be putting themselves in a more awkward situation by lying than telling the truth they are considered to be engaged in "crazy lying". Your husband's job situation is a classic situation of crazy lying and to a certain degree lying about his former girlfriend is as well. Although that's kind of a gray area because I can think of reasons where he might have thought he was doing you a favor not telling the truth. His reasoning might be severly flawed but perhaps not to the level of this kind of lying.

Mel is right that even if you could crawl inside their head chances are you would gain only limited insight because you don't see things the same way as a person with this disorder might.

My perspective is much different than Matt's in terms of why we lie. Both in my own personal experience and what I've observed from others much of the lying associated with this disorder does not serve a good reason. Rather it most ofen serves to bring trouble to our lives that we really don't need.

In the heart ofmy acting out on NPD I was famous for some really, really gitantic lies. Lies that were so elaborate that people could not begin to understand why I put such time and effort into that level of deception. Well, I think I finally have an answer to that question. At the time it was kind of like a game of catch me if you can, or how far can I take this before you fools figure it out. I admit I was stunned at how far I could take most things, but that's kind of another story.

In reality I was calling out for help. Challenging people to see through me and rescue me from myself. It was a game. A game that very recently I started to understand left a long trail of very confused people wondering just what in God's name was going on. The funny thing was there was some self-preservation going on, the kind that allowed me not to look at myself. Here again we are back at the myth of Narcissus and the idea that Narcissus will live a long life unless he comes to know himself. This kind of lying can often be said to be an effort to prevent us from ever knowing ourselves.

Kind of strange, but there you have it,

Have fun :cookiemonster:

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You do not need to be loved, not at the cost of yourself. The single relationship that is truly central and crucial in a life is the relationship to the self . .. Of all the people you will know in a lifetime , you are the only one you will never lose.

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jimmie

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 22:34:51 TueAug 17 2004 )

Quote: deckhandsdaughter at 19:23:14 Tue Aug 17 2004

I think self-preservation is a valid reason for lying. Of course the problem with this opinion is the subjective nature of self preservation. Although we could probably all justify lying if our life was being threatened, what about when our sense of self is threatened? From what I can understand, developing a sense of self is the quintessential human process. And none of us are born with it. So sense of self is vulnerable to all sorts of disruptions.

I have lied on many occassions and it may well be that part of all of my reasons for lying were what I might have called self-preservation. Deckshanddaughter has an important point that self-preservation is very subjective and your husband may well feel he could justify his actions as his definition of self-preservation. I suppose if I question him then I am guilty of judgement...

Having said that as an admitter liar in the past I don't believe self-preservation is an excuse for lying. I think every lie we tell drives us further from our true self therefore its working toward an end opposite of where we hopefully are trying to get.

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Mlashtok

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 03:24:03 WedAug 18 2004 )

I think also that many NPDers use lying as a way to "get ahead" and maintain control over reality as they perceive it, even if their perception is very inaccurate. By lying, they are twisting their view of reality and your view of it at the same time, but only THEY know that they are doing it - which leaves them a step ahead of you, and also leaves them mysterious and impossible to pin-down.

Just a thought.

Matt

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gailabelle

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 04:24:18 WedAug 18 2004 )

I would rank crazy lying as the number one problem in my marriage. I no longer believe a word my husband says because of it. He lies about everything, really stupid stuff, and as a result constantly contradicts himself, unknowingly exposing his lies with almost every word he says. His reason may be for self-presevation but the reality has been pure self-destruction. I have observed the - catch me if you can - attitude, and smugness when he thinks he has fooled me but I just no longer choose to acknowledge the lies whatsoever. I have found it to be a total waste of time to try to communicate with him about this problem. I can believe that it is actually a cry for help but I am confused as to how one can actually help. What would be an appropriate response to have when one recognizes this behavior. Who can help? How?

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Little_by_Little

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 19:48:28 WedAug 18 2004 )

I'm not certain if I've mastered the trick of making this quote box appear but I'm going to try. Wish me well.

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By lying, they are twisting their view of reality and your view of it at the same time, but only THEY know that they are doing it - which leaves them a step ahead of you, and also leaves them mysterious and impossible to pin-down.

This is my husband down right to the skin of his teeth. God I wish I knew how his mind operates. To me this is not self-preservation its more like launching a terrorist attack against yourself. The more I think I understand the more lost I feel. Maybe its because it really does not make any logic?

Now I'm curious. Do people here really do this kind of thing? Can you provide an example and maybe say how a rational person might respond?

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Re: The lies and intentional misleading are driving me crazy ( 18:33:19 FriAug 20 2004 )

My bf does the same thing, having the "catch me if you can" attitude and other traits some of you have pointed out. He contradicts himself, telling me he did something, like paying a bill, then will say he told me he said he was GOING to pay it, not that he said he DID pay it. Silly me for misunderstanding him ...Looking me in the eye saying he's not high on coke when I can sure as day see the signs, but didn't see him doing it, so I'm mistaken, or maybe looking for something that isn't there. I take these as them trying to have the upper hand, making us think there is something "wrong" with us. You can't prove them wrong, and even if you can, you still can't because they are right and everyone else is wrong. I would love to know also how to respond to this, or maybe whether not to respond at all. Very interesting topic...

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