Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
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Tae_Kwon_Dan
22:26:57 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
This is sort of a catch-all from the conversation I think is starting in the Political Party thread. What things that are currently illegal do you think should be legalized? To what extent? e.g. You're for legalization of some drugs, but still think cocaine and heroine should be no no's.

I'll post more of my thoughts later when I have more time.

Zherog
22:29:08 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Euthanasia should be legal for the terminally ill. I've watched entirely too many family members and a friend of mine suffer entirely too much.

Galahad_Knight
22:38:07 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Indeed. It;s our life, yous hould hve the right to end it

I also think pot and prostitutin should both be legalized, regulated and taxed the hell out of.

I don;t sdmoke, let alone pot, but I think legalizing it is a good idea because it instantly cuts down on drug crime and has the side efect of increasing tax revenue.
Pot is less dangerous than alcohol. The only reason its illegal is that 'gateway drug' nonesense.

But if the drugs it supposedly leads to are illegal already then what good does making poit illegal do?

Prostitutuon should be legal because it makes no sense not to be. No law says you can;t sleep with someone for buying you a drink But if they give you money you;re an outlaw.
Besides, if it's legal then you can license it. Legal prostitutes would require extensive and frequent medical and drug tests. And since it;s legal there's no reason for prostitutes not to go to the cps if they get raped. And they don't have to take abuse from pimps in exchange for protection.

Galahad_Knight
22:47:17 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Oh, and here's a pre-emptive legalization.
Cigarettes.

I don;t smoke. I don;t want to smoke. But I think we should stop trying to criminalize it.

As long as there's a bigasss warning that explains to anyone who lives in a cave that cigarettes are dangerous then you should have no basis to sue if you;re a pack a day smoker with only one functional lung. You knew the risks, sdeal with it.

As to secondhand smokie...as long as there are regulations that require non-smoking areas and smoke-free buildings then it;s another situation of 'deal with it'

If you go into a bar and people are smoking then you can go to a nonsmoking bar (or a section of the bar for nonsmokers) or you can suck it up and live with it.

As long as ther are laws requiring people to be warned, and requiring alternatives for nonsmopkers then that's as far as we need to go.

Boulie_98
22:51:56 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Tae_Kwon_Dan at 22:26:57 Mon Dec 15 2003

What things that are currently illegal do you think should be legalized? To what extent?


Uh, well... The list of nonos is pretty small here, and I agree with it as is.


Medesha
22:55:17 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
In Toronto, it's illegal to poke your eye out with a stick. I definitely think we should repeal that law. :mtongue:

Zherog
22:58:22 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Medesha at 22:55:17 Mon Dec 15 2003

In Toronto, it's illegal to poke your eye out with a stick. I definitely think we should repeal that law. :mtongue:


In Pennsylvania, it is illegal to commit suicide. However, it is not illegal to attempt to commit suicicde. To the best of my knowledge, though, a corpse has never been arrested, put on trial and convicted. Perhaps we can repeal this law, too. :tongue:

Desdan_Mervolam
22:59:13 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
M: Yes, I think that's the solution to my severely out-of-date eyeglass prescription :wink:

-Desdan

Josh_Kablack
23:19:45 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Here in Pennsylvania, Land of the Blue Law, selling more than 2 six packs of beer to go really ought to be legal.

It also needs to be legal for residents of Pittsburgh to be able to impeach their own mayor instead of having to hold the proceedings in the state legislature.

Walking or using other forms of transportation which do not require government-approved licenses needs to be legaiazedl on any and all roads built with federal funds. That it is not is a direct violation of the Bill of Rights (9th Amendment).

Copyright laws also need some major overhauling in favor of fair use and the consumer. Did you know that under a strict reading, the DMCA has a clause that makes duplicating your housekey illegal? Fortunately nobody's tried to enforce it that way yet, but we really shouldn't have something like that on the books.

Depending on the precise regulations, I might or might not be okay with the "legalize and regulate" idea for all of the following: marijuana, cocaine, LSD, and prostitution.

I am pretty firmly against further legalization of gambling in my home town and state. That money really needs to stay in the hands of the local mobs and not be handed off to out-of-state developers intrests and the affluent suburbs which lottery proceeds already go disproportionately towards. As an afterthought to that, it should probably also be completely legal to beat the snot out of anyone playing video poker, as long as no weapons are used.



Lilly_the_shapeshifter
23:38:18 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at 22:47:17 Mon Dec 15 2003

Oh, and here's a pre-emptive legalization.
Cigarettes.

I don;t smoke. I don;t want to smoke. But I think we should stop trying to criminalize it.

As long as there's a bigasss warning that explains to anyone who lives in a cave that cigarettes are dangerous then you should have no basis to sue if you;re a pack a day smoker with only one functional lung. You knew the risks, sdeal with it.

As to secondhand smokie...as long as there are regulations that require non-smoking areas and smoke-free buildings then it;s another situation of 'deal with it'

If you go into a bar and people are smoking then you can go to a nonsmoking bar (or a section of the bar for nonsmokers) or you can suck it up and live with it.

As long as ther are laws requiring people to be warned, and requiring alternatives for nonsmopkers then that's as far as we need to go.


I agree with you on this point. A lot of cities in CO have started 'smoking bans'. Denver and Ft. Collins are the ones that I know of. The ban is on smoking in public buildings and bars and restauraunts. It seems wrong to me that the government of these cities are making this kind of judgement on smokers. It's their choice if they want to do something stupid. It's also the non-smoker's choice to go into a bar that they know is smoky. There was something in the newspaper that said they did this for the health of the people who work there, that's a point but they're discriminating against the portion of the population who smokes.

That's completly disorganized now isn't it.

Galahad_Knight
23:41:21 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Yeah, I'm against the outbreak of mini-casinos up here in Washington. If nothing else than because it's done speciffically to screw the poor Indians.

For years about the only things the Native Americans have going for them is that you can gamble on reservations. People whined about the indians taking all their money and now we've got casinos all over the damned place. Most of them proudly proclaiming their "Non-Tribal" ownership.

And yeah, I'm with you Lilly, it's just crazy.
Yeah, people who work there do have a right to a healthy working envornmnent...but, really...there's such a thing as an occuational hazard.

Batters get hit in the face with baseballs from time ti time, where's wht nerf-ball regulations? :wink:

Zherog
23:58:46 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Josh_Kablack at 23:19:45 Mon Dec 15 2003

Here in Pennsylvania, Land of the Blue Law, selling more than 2 six packs of beer to go really ought to be legal.


While we're at it, can we get the State of Pennsylvania out of the liquor sales business? In PA, the state sells wine and "hard" alcohol. Up until very recently, you could not buy a bottle of wine in the grocery store.

Josh_Kablack
23:59:08 Mon
Dec 15 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
An on smoking,

It should be 100% legal for delivery people to trample any smokers loitering in doorways.

Galahad_Knight
00:52:52 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Only if you make it so that smokers don;t have to hang out in doorways anymore :wink:

Josh_Kablack
00:57:00 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Zherog at 23:58:46 Mon Dec 15 2003

Quote: Josh_Kablack at 23:19:45 Mon Dec 15 2003

Here in Pennsylvania, Land of the Blue Law, selling more than 2 six packs of beer to go really ought to be legal.


While we're at it, can we get the State of Pennsylvania out of the liquor sales business? In PA, the state sells wine and "hard" alcohol. Up until very recently, you could not buy a bottle of wine in the grocery store.


And even now, you can only do so in grocery stores which have State Stores inside them.

But getting the State out of the liquor sales business is a bad idea. Recent independant studies have shown that privitizing liquor sales would actually raise the cost to the consumer - by an average of roughly a nickel per bottle. And by wombat, I'm a cheap drunk through and through.

Desdan_Mervolam
01:04:04 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Thus explaining your extensive knowladge of Bum Wine.

-Desdan

GiantInThePlayground
01:28:53 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Put my vote down for legalizing gay marriage, and just as importantly, gay divorce. Do you have any idea how tough it is for an American couple to dissolve a Canadian marriage if they need to? Apparently it's a legal nightmare; you can get married without Canadian residence, but need to live in Canada for 1+ years to get a divorce!

Galahad_Knight
01:45:41 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that.
Gay marriage, sadomy and even poligamy are all ok to be legal in my book. None of the state's business to have made that illegal in the first place.

Maj
02:10:03 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Most currently illegal drugs - I've never tried them in my life, and I don't plan to ever do so intentionally, but I would much rather have revenue being created than destroyed as a result of their existence. It would also make things like growing hemp legal, which could have a huge environmental and practical impact on paper-making and clothing manufacture in this country.

Prostitution - Again, create revenue, don't destroy it.

Gay Marriage - Because it's no one's business what you do in your bedroom, or what other consenting adults you do it with.

Assisted Suicide - I would humbly submit most people who believe they have the right to die to some sort of evaluation before allowing them to pull the plug... Just to make sure that they're not some depressed teenager who didn't like dealing with kids at school that day.

Butterfly Knives and Nunchucks - Why these things are illegal is beyond me... Especially when people are allowed to access normal knives, normal sticks, and guns.

Speeding - I understand the need to regulate how fast people drive in areas where there are people who could get hurt, but on long strips of highway where there is less traffic and fewer people, what's the speed cap for?

Cloning - I really don't see much wrong with this. I think that the medical benefits of cloning far outstrip the drawbacks of the process.

Over-the-Counter Birth Control Pills - Why these must be acquired via prescription is a horrible hindrance to preventing a lot of pregnancies.



Medesha
02:14:37 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Stem Cell Research!

Tae_Kwon_Dan
02:47:20 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Maj at 02:10:03 Tue Dec 16 2003



Over-the-Counter Birth Control Pills - Why these must be acquired via prescription is a horrible hindrance to preventing a lot of pregnancies.



I thought that they recquired certain doses based on body type and that women could have a negative reaction to certain types. All reasons that one should see an OB-GYN before obtaining them.

I think this is more a safety concern than a moral concern.

Vaalingrade_Ashland
03:19:38 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Maj and Medesha were kind enough to make my list for me.
Here's a few more:
- Travel to Cuba
- Rights to people who got taken by shady EULAs



Galahad_Knight
03:31:36 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Rock on, Maj and M, agree with everything.

Cloning could be especially practical when combined with stem-cell research. Imagine cloning just stem-cell producing tissue?

Ad yeah...knives and such should be more widely legal. I mean, if guns are legal then I should be able to carry a freakin sword if I wanted (Just an example, not that I believe swords would come back in style <chuckles> )

And yeah, we should drop the stupid embargo with Cuba.
We started it because Castro was a communist. But castro didn;t used to be He wanted ourt help but because he had a coupel of communists in his administration, the ultra-prarnoid US administration of the time tole him to shove off unles she got rid of the commies.

Then russia offered him assistance and that's when Cuba became officially communist.

Now a days we talk about the oppressive cuban regime and the squallor that Castro has his people living in.
Of course, if we;d actually start *buying* stuff from them their economy would boom and there'd be no need fr communism or the people livng in squallor

Cuba was a stpuid mistake. Anything that happened because of it was our own making. It seems time that we fixed it.

Josh_Kablack
04:02:28 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Maj at 02:10:03 Tue Dec 16 2003


Butterfly Knives and Nunchucks - Why these things are illegal is beyond me... Especially when people are allowed to access normal knives, normal sticks, and guns.


It mostly has to do with tradition and preventing rules-lawyering of the criminal justice code.

Tradition: Since about the late 16th-17th (yes, Shakespeare's time) century, bankers, nobles and other professionals and respectable sorts have been carrying firearms of various sorts for protection against criminals and undesirables. Thus there is a tradition that guns are for use by law-abiding citizens. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that's tradition for you.

Rules-lawyering: You see, any shmuck with half a brain and a little bit of martial arts training can invent and patent some "new" type of weapon ([big idea]It's the Kabacka-Guisari, it's like manriki-gusari, but with end weights shaped like rabbits and pancakes[/big idea]). So if the criminal justice codes want to ban the carrying of all types of lethal weaponry, it becomes problematic to do this by exhaustive listing, as you can't in any real sense list all of the weapons out there and keep the laws up to date whenever somebody comes up with a new idea. So mose criminal justice codes instead provide a list of which weapons it is legal to carry: firearms (see tradition, above), knives below a given length (because knives have a large number of non-violent applications) and sometimes a few other accepted weapons (pepper spray, etc.). All other weapons are therefore illegal and we don't have to update the laws everytime somebody comes up with their own variant weapon.

However, the way around this is to carry tools, sporting goods or other everyday items which can be used as weapons, such as crowbars, axes, tire irons, baseball bats, pipes, bottles, pool cues, Mag-lites, rolls of quarters, sharpened keychains, crutches, canes, mufflers, walking sticks, bike locks, golf clubs, etc. You'll still get in trouble for using said item as a weapon, but carrying it is legal as long as you are doing so for what could be legitimate purposes.


Zherog
05:45:47 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Maj at 02:10:03 Tue Dec 16 2003

Speeding - I understand the need to regulate how fast people drive in areas where there are people who could get hurt, but on long strips of highway where there is less traffic and fewer people, what's the speed cap for?


:love: :love: :love: :love:

WOW! The money I could save every year in traffic costs alone could help recover the economy! :tongue:

Maj
05:58:55 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Tae_Kwon_Dan

Quote: Maj



Over-the-Counter Birth Control Pills - Why these must be acquired via prescription is a horrible hindrance to preventing a lot of pregnancies.



I thought that they recquired certain doses based on body type and that women could have a negative reaction to certain types. All reasons that one should see an OB-GYN before obtaining them.

I think this is more a safety concern than a moral concern.


:rotfl:

I'd so love to believe you... In a perfect world where doctors actually give a damn about their patients, maybe they actually worry about dosage, but NONE of my doctors have cared, my health insurance carriers haven't cared, and when a new dosage was given to me because my insurance refused to continue paying for my old prescription, it took me over 10 phone calls and a week before the pharmacy agreed to switch me to a drug that WASN'T detrimental to my body.

While I recommend that all women have annual check-ups and tests to make sure they stay healthy, I would prefer to be able to walk into the drug store and buy the pills I need.

For one thing, because my insurance pays for my prescription, if a pill accidentally drops down the sink, or onto the floor and I lose it, I have no extra pills to back me up unless I pay for another month's worth of pills. My insurance won't cover the extra month, and my pharmacy won't fill the extra prescription. The ability to only buy one month's amount at a time is also a pain in the butt if you're traveling and going to need a new supply while you're gone.

Secondly, I know better than my doctor what works for my body and what doesn't. The doctor initially prescribes a pill, knowing that if there's a problem, it's my job to go back to the doctor and say that what s/he gave me didn't work and get a new prescription. It's my doctor's job to acknowledge the fact that since I'm the one taking the pill, and I'm the one who deals with my body everyday, I know better than s/he does what works and what doesn't.

For these two reasons, I totally believe that I should have the right to buy any birth control medication that does not make me ill and helps prevent pregnancy.

Quote: Josh K

[big idea]It's the Kabacka-Guisari, it's like manriki-gusari, but with end weights shaped like rabbits and pancakes[/big idea]


This deserves two or three more rolly faces:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

While I think your theory is great, Josh... In Washington's laws, at least, they do specifically mention both butterfly knives and nunchucks - which is why I mentioned them.

When I used to sell weaponry, these things weren't a problem until on officer from the State Patrol filed a formal complaint with the local police chief, and came storming into our shop with photocopies of the law highlighted so we could read that what we were doing was a clear violation. When we asked the police chielf why the four different cops - who regularly came into the store for various different reasons - hadn't told us we were doing something illegal (eventhough we'd asked), he said that he allowed us to carry these illegal items because he knew we weren't trying to arm a gang or promote killing and violence. :tjonjurer:

I've heard varying reasons as to what makes things like butterfly knives and nunchucks bad... They're fast weapons, so they're illegal because you can't react in time to prevent injury. They're easily concealable. Nunchucks can be used as a club... And evidently, because they're gang weapons.

:rolleyes:


Galahad_Knight
06:26:37 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Maybe iun the 180os nunchucks were the weapon of choice of gamgs <chuckles> But they went out of style with ninja turtules.

Most gang punks would rather shoot someone with their pistol (held at a jaunty sidweays angle) than bash their own nuts in with a set of nunchucks.

And the last switchblade I saw in the hands of a gang member was in a bad rendition of West Side Story...which is probably why they don;t use them anymore <chuckles>

To tell the truth, a nice, loose liner lock blade is faster than a switchblade or a butterfly knife, and more legal. *

All weapons are "Gang Weapons"
The popular ones are popular because they're trendy and cool. You ban one and the punks find something else to be their cool toy of choice until it goes out of style.

Somehting I always thought was hilarious is that switchblades are illegal because of the spring action.

Yet, my "Walking Stick" is perfectly legal.
What's that? It's my spring-loaded baton. It's like an ASP (a telescoping collapsable batton) except it's got a bog ole spring down the middle that, with the push of a button, snaps all 21 inches of steel out of the handle in an instant...with enough force to chip brick.

According to the two cops I talked to, not only is it legal, but it's "Freakin awesome!"

And it's got quillions!
+2 to disarm attempts, bay-bee. Awww yeah. :grin:


* Edit: Turns out it;s just as illegal to have "any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement" which means if you have a well-mantained knife that's loose enough top open wihtout the aid of a thumb stud, then it's illegal.
BUT
Unless it's *really* loose, nobody's going to bust your chops for it unless you're brandishing because there's enough leeway for you to say that it wasn't intentional (which it might not be) I;ve gotten knives right out of the box that can flip open wiht a strong wrist snap.

zuche
08:00:41 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
My reservation with legalizing euthanasia has always been the fact that where it has been legalized, social pressure has been mounted on people who might be candidates for it to "retire."

I'm not saying this is universal, but I did work in nursing homes and auxilary hospitals for a few years. I know that more than a few of the people there didn't want to die, didn't have very supporting families (or staff, sometimes), and would have crumbled under pressure from people who would likely say in effect "Mom/Dad, don't you think you'd be better off dead? You're just a drain on the state and us now. If you'd love us, you'd take the needle."

I favour the choice, I do. I just would like to be certain that it could be offered without coercion of any kind, and I've known too many medical professionals and abandoned people to believe that we could allow for euthanasia on demand in this society without seeing that injustice far too often. :sad:

Vaalingrade_Ashland
08:17:53 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Can you imagine the ads for that?

This Holiday, give dad the gift he needs -- sweet release.

The Botox ads are just as heartless, I see this happening....

Galahad_Knight
08:46:16 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Yeah, but if you haven't learned to think for yourself in eighty years then you'd have probaly done it anyhow. If you're able-bodied and want to doe, there's plenty of ways of doing it. All anti-suicide laws are doing is keeping the people who are too sick to do it themselves from exercising their last rights, so to speak.

Though, this does bring to mind a funny image...
"Come on, gramps. All the cool old folks are doin it."
"I dunno...if your friends told you to jump offa bridge would you do it?"
"Grampa! We're not your friends, we're your family. It's completely different. Besides, it's not a very high bridge anyhow...now quit being so selfish."
Sorry if that offended anyone, but i just had to get it out of my head.

Anyhow, all jokes aside there should be a thurough psychological evaluation done before anyone can do themselves in legally. If they find you;re just drpeessed or being presured or what have you then they can deny it for your own good. But if you have a legitimate reason, you should e allowed to take your own life.
The hard part would be drawing the line with the insane.
Personally, I think if you spend every waking moment in mortal fear of the spiders living under your skin and you want to end the pain, you should be allowed.
But how do you know he;s not just depressed or that he won;t get better?
Hard to say...

zuche
09:04:43 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Well, the thing is, GK, a lot of the elder people I dealt with had a lot taken from them by age, infirmity, family, the medical system.

Dignity and self-confidence are very hard things to hold onto when you can't control your own bowels and people fifty years younger than you express contempt for something that you really don't have any control over. I'm not saying you can't remain confident, but when both your mind and your body betray you, it's really quite hard.

Keep in mind that the psychological exams would be delivered by people who are part of a system that is often placed under heavy pressure (at least in this country) to be as cost-effective as possible. I know it could go either way with people, with the extremes ranging from impossible red-tape ("Can you prove that no one has put you up to this? Was it something that was beaten into you by a mentor sixty years ago? If you can't remember, we'll have to assume so, and deny your application. Of course, if you can, we'll have to deny it on the basis of prior coercion...") to assembly line thinking. ("Billions and billions served.")

Okay, I know a lot of people would rather be dead than as vulnerable to high pressure sales tactics as the elderly are, but is that a constant perspective or one that will change once you get there?

And Vaal, I may not have heard the same ads as you about Botox, but the idea still makes me feel queasy, especially as it's presented.

Galahad_Knight
11:01:37 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
True. Perhaps they should just limit it to only the most dire, painful and irreversable problems. Like if you;ve got six months of incredible pain left and that's it then you could take off now.

But if you;re just old then you have to wait. You know?

Sorry if I'm not putting this delicately, but I donlt know how.

Boulie_98
11:17:19 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Ah I found one: preferential treatment of the royal family.

Now I'm not saying we should legalise punching the queen in the nose, but it should be no more illegal than punching some random guy in the street in the nose. Ie, same crime same punishment.

Oh, the hell with it. Down with the monarchy! Long live the republic!


Galahad_Knight
11:32:55 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
You're just NOW catching on?
Jeeze, we figured that out centuries ago :tongue:
I think Canada is still trying to come to grips with it.

Boulie_98
12:40:48 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Well I'd love to one day meet the queen, and then shout 'Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!' :biggrin:


Galahad_Knight
12:46:43 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I wanna meet Prince Charles and be standing in his way or something so he has to ask me to move. Then I can say, "Hey, who died and made you king? Oh yeah, NOBODY!" <chuckles>

Count_Arioch_the_28th
13:49:44 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Things I thinkshould eb legal:

Marijuana. The government can make more money off of marijuana by taxing it at the same rate as cigarettes, and not spend money on housing thousands upon thousands of inmates in our prisons. Also, it wouldn't support terrorism if they just let Phillip-Morris grow it in Virginia. (Seriously, they have a patent for Marlboro Green, a brand of marijuna cigarette, already patented, back in the 70' when they were seriously considered legalizing it.) But then again, the government has a lot of freedom with drug laws, I can go to any cop and say "So and so tried to sell me a joint" and they'd be at your house, ready to "confiscate" anything that looks remotely valuable. (At least, that's how the cops around here operate, the cops here are crooked as hell. Can't say about anywhere else.)

I also think it should be legal to smack your own children. Granted, I don't intend to harm my own children, but when I have kids, you better beleive that I'll backhand them for cussing around grandma, or whatever. Hell, my parents beat the living hell out of me, and I'm glad they did. I think I turned out better than most people my age. (I don't smoke weed, I don't drink excessively, the only woman I've been with is my wife. Granted, I'm no Mr. Perfect here, but at least I've never been arrested.)

I also think it should eb legal to hack someone's computer if you can show thay're being real dinks, and delete their hard drive. But that's just a pet peeve of mine, I'm constantly searching for legal ways to get revenge on dumb people online. It's my hobby. :uptosomething:

Mole_2
14:07:28 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at 06:26:37 Tue Dec 16 2003


And the last switchblade I saw in the hands of a gang member was in a bad rendition of West Side Story..


And the last one I saw was stuck in a dude's thigh. Very messy.

A pocketknife will do most jobs.
Long thin spring-loaded blades exist only to stab other people with.

Glad they are illegal here.

As is treason.
Long live the Queen !
(I am not a citizen I am a subject. )

Zherog
14:54:57 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Boulie_98 at 12:40:48 Tue Dec 16 2003

Well I'd love to one day meet the queen, and then shout 'Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!' :biggrin:


:rotfl: :rotfl:

I'm looking forward to that day Boulie. When I see the story on the news I can exclaim, "Hey! I know that smacktard!" :biggrin:

Tae_Kwon_Dan
15:14:56 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I'm glad Boulie has joined in, because I was discussing the Netherlands at lunch the other day and how you have legalized Marijuana and Prostitution and I noticed a distinct lack of society crumbling around me when I visited.

Lot's of orange, but not too much crumbling.

Tae_Kwon_Dan
15:20:17 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Maj at 05:58:55 Tue Dec 16 2003


:rotfl:

I'd so love to believe you... In a perfect world where doctors actually give a damn about their patients, maybe they actually worry about dosage, but NONE of my doctors have cared, my health insurance carriers haven't cared, and when a new dosage was given to me because my insurance refused to continue paying for my old prescription, it took me over 10 phone calls and a week before the pharmacy agreed to switch me to a drug that WASN'T detrimental to my body.


I know you've had an awful time with your doctors, but I don't think the medical profession deserves such blanket stereotyping. (Feel free to fire away at insurance companies and HMO's as I'm pretty certain they are run by inhuman thinking machines. :wink:)

I still think there are dangers inherit within over the counter birth control pills though. Especially in the early teen demographic, because they don't know what they need or what they are doing and would most likely be afraid to speak to their parents or their doctor about side effects.

I think the issue is in how birth control is currently handled, but I remain unconvinced that making it over the counter would do anything more than create a new set of problems.

Marzi
18:47:03 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I agree with almost everything I've seen, and want to go through it point by point in a bit, but the biggest issue for me..

Ferretts! I want a Ferrett for a pet but can't buy it in Massachusetts because they are illegal. Oh well, at least tatoos and cartilidge piercing are finally ok.

Zherog
18:51:05 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Marzi at 18:47:03 Tue Dec 16 2003

I agree with almost everything I've seen, and want to go through it point by point in a bit, but the biggest issue for me..

Ferretts! I want a Ferrett for a pet but can't buy it in Massachusetts because they are illegal. Oh well, at least tatoos and cartilidge piercing are finally ok.


Finally! Something PA has that other states don't! We can have ferrets as pets. Nyah, Nyah! :tongue:

Josh_Kablack
20:49:55 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Yeah, I'm so heartened to know that my home state is progressive when it comes to personal ownership of smelly, ill-tempered rodents. :tjonjurer:

Tae_Kwon_Dan
20:56:37 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
:rotfl:

Zherog
20:56:58 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
At least we're progressive with something Josh. :rolleyes:

Boulie_98
22:46:53 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Tae_Kwon_Dan

I'm glad Boulie has joined in, because I was discussing the Netherlands at lunch the other day and how you have legalized Marijuana and Prostitution and I noticed a distinct lack of society crumbling around me when I visited.

Lot's of orange, but not too much crumbling.


I can't speak for everyone here but the fact that I can get a joint legally from a coffeeshop ten minutes from my house has not once made me succumb to the dark side and run over to get high. Maybe it really is the 'I can get it so now I don't want it anymore' routine, or maybe it's just me acting like the good kid that wants to stay out of trouble :wink: But it probably is simply the 'I like my mind as is and I'm not toying with it since I'd hate to FUBAR it' routine.

On the downside, a lot of fricking foreign artists that come and perform here are already stoned when they get on stage. Making my music experience suffer because they want to see purple clouds ASAP is annoying. Bunch of potheads, gimme back my money! :angry:

Quote: Josh_Kablack

Yeah, I'm so heartened to know that my home state is progressive when it comes to personal ownership of smelly, ill-tempered rodents. :tjonjurer:


Hey man, if people want to have kids that's their business!


Marzi
23:28:04 Tue
Dec 16 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Josh_Kablack at 20:49:55 Tue Dec 16 2003

Yeah, I'm so heartened to know that my home state is progressive when it comes to personal ownership of smelly, ill-tempered rodents. :tjonjurer:


Well :hmph: :nonono:

I can't speak of their pet-abilities as I've never had one, but they aren't rodents. They're mustelids- weasel family along with skunks, badgers, and otters.

Not that there isn't anything wrong with rodents either.

Oh! Another law that's really getting to me- the whole plane limited items list. That's really bugging me. Why would you steal my screwdriver used to fix my glasses? And a keychain that looks like a bullet?! Really, honestly now.... The only thing they are doing by putting such severe limits on what you can bring on a plane is making it so if there were a terrorist, the passengers couldn't do anything about him.

And though that's not a law, it's a buisness choice that still irks me.

Tae_Kwon_Dan
00:14:49 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I saw a guy have to give up his freaking pen knife (the kind with a 1" blade on it) before a hockey game. My statement:

Quote:

If he takes over this entire building of people and kills all of us with that pen knife then the gene pool is a better place without us.


The security guard was not amused.

Vaalingrade_Ashland
00:20:52 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: zuche at 09:04:43 Tue Dec 16 2003


And Vaal, I may not have heard the same ads as you about Botox, but the idea still makes me feel queasy, especially as it's presented.


My Thread on the Ad


Medesha
00:41:32 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Boulie_98 at 22:46:53 Tue Dec 16 2003

Quote: Josh_Kablack

Yeah, I'm so heartened to know that my home state is progressive when it comes to personal ownership of smelly, ill-tempered rodents. :tjonjurer:


Hey man, if people want to have kids that's their business!


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Galahad_Knight
02:02:09 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Mole_2 at 14:07:28 Tue Dec 16 2003[br

And the last one I saw was stuck in a dude's thigh. Very messy.

A pocketknife will do most jobs.
Long thin spring-loaded blades exist only to stab other people with.

Glad they are illegal here.


Meh. My knives are for stabbing people with too. But they;re for stabbing bad people.

Personally, I don;t want a switchblade, I think they;re silly. But I also think itls silly that theylre illegal. As you said, a pocket knife will do the job.

IMO, outlaqwing any kind of melee weapon when guns are still allowed is both pointless and hypocritical.

As long as people can bust a half-inch wide cap in someone's ass from across the street, I should be allowed to carry a knife that's a quarter-second faster than a normal knife. It won;t make any difference against a gun, but it;ll make me feel better.

<shrug>
Anyhow, I'm happy with my Switchclub :grin:

And, BTW Marzi...
Ferrets rule. I have two of my own and would ever live somewhere I couldn;t have them.

Did you know Arnold got a few thousand votes just because he *handled* a ferret in Kindergarten Cop?
There's a ferret legalization lobby in CA and Arnold having worked with a ferret was the closest thing to an official stance anyone had to an official stance.
Sop they voted for the Guvornator.

Galahad_Knight
09:34:50 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Hay...
Here's another thing tht should be (re)legalized.

Buying perscription drugs from Canada.
Recently a bill has been pased (at least localy) which forbids the purchase of perscription pharmaseudicals from Canada, where they are much, much, much cheaper (Because Canada's health care industry isn;t dominated by huge uncaring insurance companies and unscrupulous drug companies)

In america, because of insurance companies, pharmasudical companies can get away with charging an obscene amount of money for their drugs because the insurance companies will pay for it.
Unfortunately, more and more people are finding themselves cut off from insurance, and government-run healtcar just hasn't got the money to provide people with all they need, especially for the elderly. The elderly often require several different, highly expensive perscriptions every month. What little aid they get isn;t enough to cover it. So what do they do?

They drive up to Canada or down to Mexico (or go to a website that gets its supplioes from one other cuntries) and buy the exact same drugs, from the exact same companies, only cheaper.

But now the government (obviously on behalf of hugely wealthy drug companies) says that these drugs aren't safe and therefore shouldn't be purchased. After all, they didn't go through US FDA screenings.

Now, if I were buying drugs from singapore or India, or even Mexico then yeah, I;d be worried. Especially if I were buying generic drugs. But, come on! Brand name drugs are the same worldwide. And it;s not like Canada is a third world nation or anything! They have their own food and drug administration. If it passes muster in Canada then it;s just as good in the Us.

They did sme trumped up test where they tested a whole *bunch* of *different* medications from all over the world (including canada) and proclaimed that one in four samples failed to meet FDA guidelines.

Of course...they never ran the same test speciffically on Canadian or Mexican drugs. It wa son international drugs in general.

So now poor old people who need lots of expensive pills to keep their quality of life are forced to choose between medication and food since it;s illegal to go get the same medicine at half the price.

Screw taht.

tzor
14:39:11 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
This is an interesting thread, it's enough to make a Paladin want to ... well that's another problem and they have medication for those situations these days, or at least disenfectant to clean up the mess.

Drugs: I'm not for "legalizing" drugs per se in as much as I am for a reasonable treatment of drugs as they relate to their potential danger to society and the people who take them. Some things should be lessened, and even legal under certain conditions, and some things should have more restrictions.

I do get annoyed that expensive drugs are changed to be sold "over the counter." Because they are expensive, they can only be sold in blister packs of 10 or 15 and it's a pain in the neck to pop the pills out every week to put into my medicine queue. I had to switch to a generic allergy medicine, not because of the cost but because they sold the medicine in bottles of 100 from the pharmacy counter.

(We need more restrictions on the abuse of Dry Erase Markers by corporate executives. They are having too many meetings in front of the white board and are making decisions while impared. :evil: )

There is a lot of interesting debate about drugs from Canada. In the end it's really silly because the Empire will strike back, and it will only hurt Canada in the long run. The question of drug cost is a complex formula of various elements, but there is one simple factor that few people consider. In the U.S. they make expensive commercials for drugs. In countries where drugs are cheep, such commercials are against the law. The cost of those commercials are paid for by ... those who buy the drugs of course. No commericals, no cost to the consumer.

I'm starting to get sick of these "hint hint, wink wink, say no more" commericals I'm seeing in the U.S. There is one drug, that I have no idea what the blazes it does, only that you can throw a football through a tire swing easier as a result ... I think. That moronic add probably adds 10% to the cost of the drug, because I see it everywhere on prime time sport TV spots. And I'm tired of baseball players promoting Viagra; not as tired as all the Viagra spam I get every day in my email, but enough to complain here in this thread. Cut the advertising and drug prices will drop considerably in the U.S. It is that easy.

Speed limits in the U.S. are a joke. I live on Long Island. The speed limit on the Long Island Expressway is 55 MPH, average speed (not counting traffic jams) is 70 MPH. I drive to Boston several months ago. Speed limit at places was 65 MPH, average speed was 60 MPH. It gets complex on local roads where small highways have been expanded to multiple lanes with turning lanes yet they still have 35 MPH limits. Some local roads have long lost their signs and I have no idea what the speed limit is. (The last sign heading north says 35MPH, while the last sign heading south is 45MPH. Does the road have two different speeds depending on direction? I think not.)

Marzi
19:09:25 Wed
Dec 17 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Galahad- I was so going to bring up the issue of drugs from Canada. Darn you for beating me to it! It's a complete joke how much drugs are.

As for speed limits, I had an unfortunate case of the exact problem of making a road bigger but keeping the speedlimit the same.

2 years ago I got a speeding ticket on a road named the Veterans of Foreign Wars Highway. The cop cited me for going 50 in a 30, which was also a joke. Going in the opposite direction the limit is 45 and up until the cop put his lights on, my direction was a 40.

I fought it and at the courthouse, the "judge" said "This is in the city, you shouldn't be going 50. It's not like it's a highway"...

4 lanes, straight, no turn offs, few lights, and it's called a HIGHWAY. erggg...

Josh_Kablack
03:11:47 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Hey now, Pittsburgh has a select number of roads which look like 65 MPH highways, but are intentionally posted (only once) as 35 or 45 MPH zones.

They are a prime source of revenue for our police and local government, usually at the expense of out-of-towners. and right now, we need all the revenue we can get.

Count_Arioch_the_28th
07:27:23 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
More things that I think should be legal:

1. Stopping businesses from moving plants out of the country. Thanks to the insanely crappy Kyoto treaty on pollution, developing nations now have no need to make environmental laws, only the developed nations do. So, businesses are moving to Mexico, China, and other countries with little to no environmentla and/or labor laws, and making a killing. (And from my expert opinion, they save more money by ignoring environmental laws than they do for paying their workers $1.50 an hour. Trust me, you all have no idea how expensive environmental things cost. Or maybe you do, I don't know. :uptosomething: )

2. There should eba salary cap on CEOs and other upper management. There is no reason why one person should make $105 million dollars a year. None. (I am referring to the former CEO ot Tycho, and he is currently under trial for stealing $600 million more, the greedy bastidge. I hope he has the slipperiest soap in cell block E, if you catch my meaning.)

3. It should be legal for me to punch snotty college kids. (Just my opinion. :uptosomething: )

Vaalingrade_Ashland
08:15:13 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
hey, the townies in Fredricksburg do enough to us. Like using our dorm stairwells as toilets. I'd welcome a punch.

Boulie_98
10:57:30 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Count_Arioch_the_28th at 07:27:23 Thu Dec 18 2003

1. Stopping businesses from moving plants out of the country. Thanks to the insanely crappy Kyoto treaty on pollution, developing nations now have no need to make environmental laws, only the developed nations do.


You mean only the developed nations that ratified the treaty right? AFAIK, the Bush administration regard the treaty as fancy toilet paper.


Galahad_Knight
11:13:08 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I put *part* of the blame for companies leaving on the Unions.
Unions are pricing themselves out fo existance these days.

Back in their inception they were vital. Theyu fought to keep work safe and stopped the virtual slavery that existed in the working class.

But now a days the only things they seem to fight for is more and more money.
I'm not saying that our workers don;t deserve more money...but sometime you have to realize that getting more money now means that later on down the road there's less money to pay you or your son.

So companies farm out work overseas where labor can be had for a fraction of the cost.

IF course, there are many other concerns like environmental and safety laws that are big factors too. But the price of labor is a big part of it.

I do think it should be illegal though. If nothing else, at least startt imposing heavier tariffs so that it;s no longer cheaper for American companies to farm work out of country.

Mole_2
12:13:45 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at [unixtime

1071626529[/unixtime
Meh. My knives are for stabbing people with too. But they;re for stabbing bad people.


Hmmm.
I'll never forget a drunken evening in a Chicago bar when this guy pulled out a pistol and told me how it was safe because he would only shoot punks.

I wondered what he had against them - was it their dress sense, the safety pins, the spitting or just pogo-ing that he disliked ?
Either way it seemed an extreme response to a youth-culture.

How do you define bad people ?

Galahad_Knight
12:39:55 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I define bad people as people who give me cause to draw a knife on them.
Usually people who are attempting to hurt me or someone else.

See, with a gun you could aim at a punk and shoot a kid across the street. Nobody ever got accidentily hit in a drive-by knifing. Knives are safer, more percise. Knives don't accidentily go off when you pull one to frighten someone. They don't go off when you're showing a friend.
If a kid finds your knife he could cut himself on accident, but he probably won't die. It's also a lot harder to kill someone with a knife, accidentily or on purpose. You ahve to seriously *try* to kill someone with a knief. But with a gun it doesn't take much to kill someone.

Knives are a million times safer than guns.

Which is why I think it's downright ludicrous to outlaw any kind of melee weapons if you let guns out and about.

(Note that I don't think guns would ever become illegal, and thus I don't waste any effort trying to make them so. I just believe that if a gun is allowed then so should eb anthing leading up to it)

Also note that while kinves serve utilitarian purposes, retractable batons are *only* for hitting people with.
I don't have a spring-loaded Asp that can take a chunk out of a cinderblock with the push of a button to drive nails with. I have it to hit bad people with.

And you know what's really funny?
While I can't have a knife that will release a blade with a button push, a knife that can be put to hundreds of nonviolent uses...I CAN have a club that releases a two-foot metal rod with much more force with the push of a button.

More proof that weapons laws, as they pertain to melee weapons are pointless and laughably arbitrary.

Outlawing switchblades didn't save a single life. Because anbyone willing to stab someone to death won't care if he's violating a weapons statute. And if he's dedicated to the path of stabbiness, I think he could adapt to using a different kind of knife. Like a loose lockback that can flip out almost as tast with only one hand. Ir a fixed-bladed knife that doesn't take any time at all to deploy. Or a much, much bigger kitchen knife that's legal to own.

It's pointless. Completely and totally pointless.
Switchblades were popular gang weapons because they were cool. Truth be told, a switchblade isn;t enough faster than a well-mantained lockback to make any difference. But being able tpo push a button and amke a blade come out was *cool*

If you really wanna pull a knife on someone then it doesnt make a damned bit of difference what kind of knife you're allowed to pull.

Hell, the 9/11 terrorists killed thousands with box cutters for christ's sakes/ More people died at the hands of a man with a box cutter than were ever killed by switchblades.
Let's outlaw boxcutters! They're obviously terrorist weapons.

Boulie_98
12:56:37 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at 11:13:08 Thu Dec 18 2003

I do think it should be illegal though. If nothing else, at least startt imposing heavier tariffs so that it;s no longer cheaper for American companies to farm work out of country.


Tariffs are just another way to force your own citizens to pay for other citizens; they're taxes only with greater costs. And it's forcing foreigners to pay up too. Taking the extra money free trade nets you and compensating the 'losers' of free tariffs still leaves you with extra wealth.

The government's only job should be to equalise internal costs with social costs. This includes levvying taxes on pollution (since it costs society more than it costs the individual), giving subsidies to schools (since the returns to society are greater than they are to the individual), etc. Tariffs have no place in this system unless you wish to inefficiently relocate wealth (inefficient since the total wealth decreases too).

I agree that developing countries should adhere to some minimal environmental standards yeah, but let's be honest here: how many Africans do you think are needed to create as much pollution as you or me (I?) or any other westerner creates? Forcing them to our strict standards right now is penalising them for our high standard of living.

Theory aside, in practice sweatshops will be the way to go for most companies so forcing minimum workplace conditions etc. on them and working with the developing countries to create minimal standards is certainly needed to make sure it isn't modern slavery I'm promoting here.


Boulie_98
13:02:32 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight

Meh. My knives are for stabbing people with too. But they;re for stabbing bad people.


Quote: Mole_2

How do you define bad people ?


Quote: Galahad_Knight

I define bad people as people who give me cause to draw a knife on them.


Circular reasoning, thy name is Galahad :tongue: I can understand your point GK, but your definition of bad people is not exactly 100% waterproof. :wink:


Galahad_Knight
13:58:11 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Yes, but it's certainly clearer than 'my gun only shoots punks"

I carry a knife (and anothe rknife, and a spring-loaded skull-crusher) for self-defense. Purely for self-defense.
While my knives may get drafted into utilitarian uses, they're not my primary reason for having them. (Truth be told, I keep a tiny boxcutter on my keychain which worls well enough for most utility purposes, though it rarely gets used since the bigger knives are more useful and are half-serrated)

The main reason I have them is self-defense. Self-defense means stabbing people.
If I'm stabbing someone in self-defense then obviously, they're bad people.

If I feel the need to stab someone to save my own life, I'm going to have a fairly clear sight on where they lie int he good/bad spectrum.

Now, don;t let all this talk give you the impression that i walk around armed to the teeth and looking for toruble. Or even that I live in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

Usually, for most purposes, I carry a single three-inch, half-serrated sypderco lockback. The blade is ideal for just about any task and is usually scary-looking ehough to deter casual aggressors.

If I;m going somepkace strange, I take along a second knife. a vicious little hawk-billed blade. Also half-serrated. The blade is shoter, but the serrations combined with the rather radical hook-shape to the blade are incredibly intimidating.

When I'm going someplace after dark then I take the baton. The quions are very cumbersome and the weapon's overall weight makes it uncomfortable to carry around in a pocket. But it's size, shape and positively adorable spring-action make it highly intimidating.

Note my use of the terms 'intimidating' and 'deter' While my weapons are carried and (in one case) speciffically engineered to hirt people, they're also good at making it so I don't have to. But I never pull one unless I am prepared to hurt someone. A weapon is never to be taken lightly or deployed idly. Unless you are prepared to use it on someone then it should never be on yor person, let alone in your hand.

Only twice have I felt sufficient need to pull a weapon on someone. And both cases I genuinely felt that I would be injured or worse if I didn't take action.

In both cases, the appearance of the weapon and my lack of hesitation in bringing it to bear sent the would-be attackers running. (after I was sure they were out of sight I ran like hell the other way, just to be safe. The best fight is one that never happens)

My knives are carried to stab people with (or in the case f the hawk-bill, to gut someone with). My walking stick (So named because it's a stick I take with me when I go for walks) is carried to hit people with. That is the whole reason why I carry them.

If I wasn't prepared to use them I wouldn't carry them. But it's because I carry them and am prepared to use them that I've yet never had to. God willing, I'll never have to.
But if the day ever comes, I'm going to use the best tool for the job. And I'm going to be glad I had it with me.

[Edit: The spyderco, by the way, is an exclusive Wayne Goddard designer piece, worth at least $80-90...another perk of working a theater job...those seats just suck things out of people's pockets. After the 30 day grace period I got myself a designer badguy-stabber :grin: My club didn't cost a third of that.]

Zherog
15:27:09 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at 13:58:11 Thu Dec 18 2003

they're bad people.


"I'm not bad; I'm just drawn that way." ~ Jessica Rabbit, Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Aisling
15:55:36 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
One thing that's always puzzled me: If there is such a thing as common-law marriage, why can't there be a "common-law divorce"?

In SC, all a couple has to do is declare themselves married, and they are in the eyes of the law (their families and friends might have something to say about it, but...). But if the same couple decides they no longer want to be married, they have to hire lawyers and go to court just like any other married couple.

I personally don't believe in common-law marriage; suppose your spouse dies and leaves you everything -- but he/she has children from a previous relationship. Couldn't the children contest the will on the grounds that you were never legally married? But if the government insists on allowing it, then there should be common-law divorce as well.

Also, I believe they should bring back punishment in schools. My teachers could give detention, give extra assignments, even paddle students, and we never had any violence beyond two students getting in a fight. They take away the right to punish, and what do we get? Kids who aren't afraid of teachers or principals and threaten lawsuits if the teacher even gives them a dirty look. No wonder so many kids end up in jail; we aren't allowed to teach them right from wrong anymore.

Maj
17:46:32 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight

But now a days the only things [unions] seem to fight for is more and more money.
I'm not saying that our workers don;t deserve more money...but sometime you have to realize that getting more money now means that later on down the road there's less money to pay you or your son.


Some time ago (not this year's Marysville strike), the teachers went on strike in Seattle, and I watched them talking on the news about how little money they had.

One teacher got up and was explaining that she had so little money that she was *forced* to buy her family fast food almost every night. The camera showed images of this family of four looking really sad eating their super value meals from McDonald's. When the camera blipped back to the line of teachers, a lot of others were nodding in agreement with this woman!

I turned off the TV at that point and just about threw up in disgust. Those "meals" are around $5 each, and I sure as hell wish I had the money to be able to afford fast food! That's $20 a NIGHT that this woman was spending on her family. You wanna know why she had no money?

I actually have a fairly large amount that I spend on food each month (for two people) - $250. That's Ess and I for all our meals a day for one month. This family of four - assuming they ate Mickey D's half of the nights out of the month - is spending $300 for the privilege of eating just dinner.

How am I supposed to feel sorry for these people?

What the people of this country need is better money management, not necessarily more money.

Tae_Kwon_Dan
18:37:18 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Well said Maj. The second I saw her argument, the first thing I thought was "damn, I could make a hell of nutrious and filling meal for what it would cost me to feed 4 people at McDonald's."

Medesha
18:56:02 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
I don't know...I've found fast food to be a heck of a lot cheaper than "real" food. It's almost always cheaper to eat unhealthier.

$1 buys me a thing of McDonald's french fries, which I find pretty filling. Or it can buy: 12 chips ahoy cookies, or 1.3 apples, or 1/4 of one of those prepackaged salad bags. Or about half a head of lettuce, or maybe 1/3 of a bag of carrots.

From Marie Claire magazine:

Tropicana pure orange juice: $3.89
Sunkist orange soda: $1.59

Salmon filet: $8.99/lb
Frozen fish sticks: $4.49 for 18 sticks

Lay's Fat-Free Baked potato chips: $2.49
Lay's Original chips: $2.19

cherries: about $3.99/lb
Cherry Jell-O: 83 cents a box

It's not necessarily cheaper all the time. But trying to eat healthy I've found to be an expensive prospect.

Zherog
19:37:29 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
True enough, M. But I could take the money from two nights' worth of value meals ($40, for those keeping score at home) and make a pot of soup that would be good for at least 3 dinners. Or I could make a pot of Gumbo, probably for around $50, and it would also last at least three days.

I could take the $20 from one days' meal, buy ground beef, stewed tomatoes and kidney beans and make a batch of chili - and there would almost certainly be leftovers.

I could buy lunch meat, cheese, bread and probably lettuce and tomato and make sandwiches. There'd almost certainly be enough stuff for more than one meal.

I could buy some ground beef and/or sausage and other ingredients and make a pot of spaghetti sauce that would be enough for about 5 meals. Buy a bunch of boxes of pasta with another days worth of value meals, and your set.

Medesha
19:46:10 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Oh, I'm not arguing that eating out at McDonald's all the time is expensive. I was just generally decrying the cheapening of fast food and the expensiving of healthy food. I don't doubt that, in a year or two, it will be cheaper to eat out all the time.

Zherog
19:48:56 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Who says you have to cook healthy? :tongue: Hell, with the gumbo I make you may as well just inject the fat into your bloodstream - it'll get there eventually anyway. :wink:

Maj
20:33:28 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Some advice from a diva of grocery shopping...

If you don't shop in the middle aisles of grocery stores, you will cut your bill in half. The food Zherog listed is largely from the outside aisles of a store - with exception of the kidney beans and pasta (which are relatively cheap because they're no-frills starches - unlike potato chips).

I don't know where or how you grocery shop, Medesha, but you seriously need to find better prices than what you're paying. When I make a shopping list, I also have a mental list of "goal prices" - just above the minimum price that an item costs. If what I need costs more than five cents away from that goal, it's a bad buy, and I won't pay the money for it. Tuna fish, for example, has a goal price of 50 cents a can. Generally speaking, it's for sale in the stores for $1.29.

That's a huge difference!

You have to be careful of what you buy, because it can really kill you financially. And sometimes, you have to be willing to make your shopping list flexible in order to accomodate your budget.

However, Medesha, you are a special case because you have no kitchen.

:tongue:



Marzi
22:31:04 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Eating healthily is much more expensive than crap.

Cheapest food in the supermarket is pasta and that's no good.

It's depressing when you decide to eat right, and make the mental commitment, and then look at your grocery bill.

The consolation is that snack food, i.e. junk really adds up. You save quite a bit from all of those $1-3 bags of chips, and cookies, and soda etc.

Soon as I get the money, first thing is to hire a housekeeper (part time of course, just a once a week thing) and second is to get one of those assisstants who do your grocery shopping and make your week's meals on Sunday and package it for you for the whole week. In the long run, eating well is much cheaper, if you add in the doctor's visits and piece of mind.

Galahad_Knight
23:48:41 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Forst off, let me state that the teachers *DO* need more money. I think they are criminally underpaid. And whether or not one woman has no ability to cook and no sense of economy does nothing to change that. I know teachers, I was raised by teachers and I;ve seen what's happening to our eductional system. Teachers need more money. If we don't give them more money we end up getting people who weren't smart enough to get better jobs.

Unfortunately, I also realize that we don't *have* enough mnoney to pay our techers what they should be paid. We *should* but we don;t. That needs to be fixed first.

Anyhow, as to McDonnalds. Unfortunately, some people can't cook. If you can't cook then buying a couple pounds of ground beef for a buck fifty per pound and making a dozen hamburgers for the price of one isn't an option. My mom once screwed up hard bioled eggs. Fortunately dad can cook very well.

Also, the dollar menu in particular is often times a very good value. You can get a double-cheeseburger for a buck. Two of those will feed me and keep me content for most of the day. It's got plenty of protien and all the food groups are right on it. For a $2 meal, a couple of double-cheeseburgers is a decent value. Especially if the only nearby place to shop is somewhere that's very expensive like QFC or Albertsons.

We had a QFC and a McDonnalds next to my school and it was cheaper every single day to go to mcdonnalds for my lunch as opposed to the QFC

However, I also know that shopping for food, especially if you know a good store can be *very* economical. We shop at Market Place. They have excellent deals, and we buy generic whenever we can. We can feed three grown people for a week on $25-$30 if we have to (Especially right now. Until new years you can get a 12lb turkey, a 4lb ham and some stuffing, vedgies and gravy for $20. We've bene eating turkey and ham since early November :wink: Unfortunately one that deal goes away we'll have to go back to chicken legs and ground beef)

But these are learned skills. You have to know where to shop, what to buy and what do to with it when you get it. A lot of people just don;t know.

Being poor ha sbeen an excelltne education for me...if only I could graduate :tongue:

And Marzi, you're right. Potatoes, bread, pasta, etc they're all loaded with carbs, but they're lso the cheapest food in the store.
We've been trying to lose weight for ages. We don't really eat that much, but we can't usually afford to eat the stuff that's good for you.

Josh_Kablack
23:50:56 Thu
Dec 18 2003
Re: Update on ferrets
Apparently they make better movie critics than they make pets

Maj
22:19:47 Fri
Dec 19 2003
Re: Update on ferrets
Galahad - just in case it wasn't clear, I do believe that teachers should have more money. In fact, I believe that teachers should be paid more than many other jobs in the US in general - educating our children is a VERY important job.

However, the news happened to talk to a woman who implied that she could cook, but instead took her family to McDonald's almost every night - and didn't buy from the dollar menu.

Which signifies to me that people need money management more than they need a salary increase.

Marzi - I've been on a low-carb diet ever since I started having heart problems this last summer. Eating well doesn't not have to mean eating expensively, but it takes a lot of time to both learn how to shop well, and to actually do the shopping. Most people aren't willing to invest the time in order to save money.

Ivellios_Nailo
00:00:40 Sat
Dec 20 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Aisling at 15:55:36 Thu Dec 18 2003

Also, I believe they should bring back punishment in schools. My teachers could give detention, give extra assignments, even paddle students, and we never had any violence beyond two students getting in a fight. They take away the right to punish, and what do we get? Kids who aren't afraid of teachers or principals and threaten lawsuits if the teacher even gives them a dirty look. No wonder so many kids end up in jail; we aren't allowed to teach them right from wrong anymore.


I agree. I see many students every day who couldn't care less if they get in trouble. We have an awful lot of fights in my high school...


Galahad_Knight
01:14:46 Sat
Dec 20 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Problem with corporal punishment in schools is that all it takes is one sadist to mess up a lot of kids lives. Dad had a principal that was an abusive sadist. He beat the hell out of my dad over something drivial.

Fortunately grampa showed up and beart the living hell out of the principal. And then had him fired.

I think instead we need to reinstate corporal punishment in HOMES
Let parents know they can spank their kids without going to jail.

Better parents means better kids and a better spciety.

People these days expect everyone else to raise their kids for them. It needs to end.

Vaalingrade_Ashland
05:08:54 Sat
Dec 20 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
The problem isn't so much lack of dicipline as lack of time together. If parent weren't force to work madnatory overtime or two jobs to make ends meet, kids would be a lot better off.

Galahad_Knight
05:56:48 Sat
Dec 20 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Unfortunately theres also the attitude that everyone else should be responsible for your kid. It could be brought on for lack of time, but I hgave a feeling that even if there was time, people just wouldnt spend it

tzor
01:15:37 Sun
Dec 21 2003
Re: Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
Quote: Galahad_Knight at 23:48:41 Thu Dec 18 2003

Forst off, let me state that the teachers *DO* need more money. I think they are criminally underpaid.


I think that in some places teachers are well paid and don't need any more money. I knew and know many teachers where I live. Some were exceptionally well off and some were generally well off. Even those who worked for private Catholic Schools were still able to earn a decent, albeit underpaid, living.

The problem is that the system is exceptionally far from univorm, and those places who need the teachers the most pay the least.

I'm not up to date on the complete breakdown of the economy of low carb diet planning and cooking, but it's has to be cheaper than Mc Donalds any day! The real problem is not cost but time. A general meat and potatoes (the latter now being bad, but saying meat and mashed caulliflower / mock potatoes just doesn't fit well) diet is certanly possible at a reasonable budget. Good meals can be done in little prep time and on budgets.



Things that should be legal, but aren't . . .
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