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Loved_by_God 17:02:27 Sat May 7 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor   Reply |
Janus, I'm not familiar with that. I'm not trying to sell you Christianity like a salesman, but I want to present it to you, it's teachings and theology, in a way that you can undersatand it and make a decision whether or not to believe. However, why is it so hard to believe that we will be held accountable to a higher truth? Everyone dies on this earth, whther they believe it or not. There is nothing we can do or think within our minds to escape that. If there is a being with power over the universe, I'd think it'd be the same. *** I'm sorry that my example seems terrible to you... I was trying to show how relativity has no stance amongst an ultimate truth. If someone is truly seeking God, I'd suggest for them to try going to different churches... praying for insight and forgiveness, and reading the bible. If your heart is repentant and humble, God will do big things in your life. However, if someone is too proud, too confused, too unsure, too speculative or whatever to seek God in action, then I'd say that is not seeking God.
If this is what you believe, prove it. Prove that there is an older religion than the worship of the Judeo Christian God, and tell me why I should believe that that god exists. If there is a religion older than Christianity, then Christianity is false, because it dates itself to the beginning of time, and declares that there is only one God.
That's an interesting pint, but again, for the 3rd time, I don't think this is what the verse is pointing too. Here it is: In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. -Romans 1:27 Again, in context, I'd say it is obvioius that this points to homesexual relations. Janus, as well as others reading this, I hope this helps you. in Love, -Jon |
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Loved_by_God 17:56:02 Sat May 7 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
Ok, about the foreign flesh in Romans 1:27. In context the men trade relations with women for something else. Then it says they pursued relatinos within themselves. Then is says they had sexual relatinos with other men. It wouldn't make sense to say men traded their relatinos with women and had relations with goats. Contextually, the verse is pointing to an opposite. If my point cannot be understood on this verse yet, we could argue about it forever, which would be pointless.
What you're saying is this: For a truth to be absolute, it must be provable and infailable to the human mind. Christianity is unfailable, but it cannot be proven. But before anyone can become a Christian, they must come to the REALIZATION that they will never be able to understand everything while on this earth. Science is absolute because it only answers easy questions. Science cannot give an answer to questions like: Why do platypuses and bird lay eggs, while mammals don't? Why do venus fly traps eat food, and how did they evolve to that point? And before there was anything, what was there? We have to come to the place in our lives where we are willing to believe in something bigger than ourselves. This world was here beofre me, and it will be here when I'm gone. To think that anything I believe is true... that is foolishness. If there is a God, I cannot believe him out of existance, nor can I make a loophole in his plan by believing something against the foundation he has laid.
The abolute truth will ahve wisdom and knowledge that is unerring. It will not be created in the mind of a human, but it will be instructino given by God. It will point to our humility and weakness as humans, and not to our strength or pride.
Why would there only be one? Scientology did not exist 1000 years ago, I'm pretty sure. So just because there is another religion, does that effect the absoluteness of absolute truth No, because it's something a man has done, or possibly demons. In the same way men have perverted Christianity, and men have created their own religions. The fact that there are many religions does not prove all of them wrong, or succeptable to falling into this relative truth deal. What is built on false ideals and lies will fall, but what is built on truth will stand. *** Re: C.S. Lewis, yes he was a theist. And the choice for freewill was made by humans, not by God. This happened in the fall, when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the kowledge of good and evil. From then on they knew right and wrong, and were able to make decisions in either direction. Also, just because you have the ability to rebel against God, that doesn't make it God's fault.
Once again, just speaking the truth I believe.
The bible talks about hell, and it was written long before the 16th century. Also, everyone will be judged, Christians and non Christians alike. God is justice, just as much as he is loving. And what he has established cannot fall. It is a narrow road to his paradise. Believing 0% of Christianity makes some sense. Believing 100% of Christianity makes more sense. Believe only some of it is foolishness. <-- This is kind of what C.S. Lewis was saying.
I said this in direct response to you saying "God does not exist within my beliefs". I'd like for you to respond to this. You've conveniently avoided it, while ranting on and on in places where you choose, but really, that paragraph was the meat of what I had to say.
Our views are worlds apart. I'm sure our code of morality is very different, and also that our sense of self is very different, as well as our view of this world, and the spiritual realm.
God is the good shepherd. And we are the sheep of his pasture. But God does not skin us to make shirts, and we don't say baaaa. You're taking the analogy too far. You're saying that we are going to be equal to God becaues we are his children, and he's trying to stunt our growth?? Are you serious?!? Our views are not the same because you embrace pride, and I embrace humility. And not all humans are declared to be God's children... this is in the bible, but I really don't feel like howing the bible to those who don't acknowledge it's truth.
Christianity is more than just one of many religions. But it is a path to fellowship with the living God. To know him, experience his love, and grow as his child. It is supernatural. Christianity is not false. *** One last thing... these post keep getting longer and longer. This is probably part of the reason why I stopped posting for a while. If you want to rant, get a blog and link to it. If you want to argue, find someplace else. Even Twilight Star saw this as being a "heated arguement". I do not want to argue, and will discontinue my posting if that is the only means to end the arguing. This is ont a threat... you just have to understand that I value my time, and don't desire to spend it in a pointless manner... ie: argueing fo the sake of argueing. in Love, -Jon |
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TDbear 22:46:24 Sat May 7 2005 Offline 567 posts bishop  Reply |
in response to me reversing your question on you, you said
i have to ask, why do christians alwasy ask such rediculous questions to non-christians, and expect and answer, but never give an answer relevant to the question themselves? are you afraid that by engagine the question that you may find real doubt in your own beliefs? or is it just ignorance? "Christianity is unfailable, but it cannot be proven." that entire statment is an oxymoron, your saying "it is perfect, and cannot be found to be wrong, but it cannot be proven to be perfect" anything that can be corrupted is falible. if i were to say "you should be compassionate to everyone and not bear ill felling for them" that statment is infalible, because its meaning is crystle clear. ther is not other way to interpret it than that you should be compassionate to everyone and not hold bad feelings for them" christianity, or rather, the bible, contradicts itself in many places. "The abolute truth will ahve wisdom and knowledge that is unerring. It will not be created in the mind of a human, but it will be instructino given by God. It will point to our humility and weakness as humans, and not to our strength or pride." that paragraph hangs by the single thread that there is a god. i still stand by that the question was a vieled threat, but if it is just a thruth that you believe, then it has no place in this dicussion. "I said this in direct response to you saying "God does not exist within my beliefs". I'd like for you to respond to this. You've conveniently avoided it, while ranting on and on in places where you choose, but really, that paragraph was the meat of what I had to say." fair enough, simply put; something cannot live or die if it does not exist, life and death are both states of existance. so you saying that 'if we can choose if gods live or die in our minds etc etc' is completely irrelevant. "God is the good shepherd. And we are the sheep of his pasture. But God does not skin us to make shirts, and we don't say baaaa. You're taking the analogy too far. You're saying that we are going to be equal to God becaues we are his children, and he's trying to stunt our growth?? Are you serious?!? Our views are not the same because you embrace pride, and I embrace humility. And not all humans are declared to be God's children... this is in the bible, but I really don't feel like howing the bible to those who don't acknowledge it's truth." how did my comment about parents and children turn in shepard and sheep? at present, humans only utilise only 10% of our brain. as far as i can see, we have almost unlimited potential. and because i dont believe your 'omnipotent' god exists, yes, i am serious. i embrace all emtions, because thats what makes me human. emotions are what shape our world. yes i do embrace pride, i am proud of what i have accomplished in my life, i am proud of the struggles that i have overcome. i too embrace humility, i know when to quit, i know when i have been supassed, i am not jealous, envious, or hateful. i know you said you 'dont feel like howing the bible....' but could you at least give me some verse references so i can read them for myself? whats a blog btw? "We have to come to the place in our lives where we are willing to believe in something bigger than ourselves" to the contrary, humans have always, probably since the beginning of civilisation itself, have been willing to believe in something bigger than themselves, as a way of explainning the things that they couldn't answer temselves. i think we are beginning to come to a place in our lives where we are less and less inclined to believe that there is something bigger than us that is the explanation for everything. that we are realiseing that "hey, we dont know the answer to X question now, but thats not to say we never will" you can stop posting if you want, i wont think any less of you, nor will it bother me. i too value my time, but i dont see arguing for the sake of arguing as pointless, for me, its a good way to vent everyday stress. |
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Loved_by_God 18:00:34 Mon May 9 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
TDBEar,
about the whole reversing the question thing, we've kind of been here before on this forum. I could have gone on about all the things in my life that have been changed by God, His influence in my life, etc. But that is not proof. Does my God exist? I know it to be 100% truth. I KNOW it. I'm sure you'll insist this is because of my upbringing, or social influence emotional religious experiences had on me, but I know it to be otherwise. There is no sense in talking/arguing about this issue, because my stance cannot and will not change, because I have found, truthfully, that God is real. You disagree if your atheist, and you have no comment if you're agnostic... but either way... it's a moot point.
OK, the statement actually is not an oxymoron. Christianity cannot be proved wrong. That is why I said unfailable. However, it cannot be proven right. That's all I meant there.
So yeah, there are a few places where numbers might be a little mixed up in the old testament. However, I believe that God's sovereignty is still over his word, and that it is still perfect in the sense that it has words of life, and teaches us to live. If there's a big inconsistancy you can name, we can talk about it.
I would say that instead of a thread, it is a solid rock among sand. And I stand on that rock... or thread.
As long as the topic is Christianity, I will talk about the most important things of the faith. One of the most important is indeed faith. If there is a God who saves us by grace through faith... having no faith is a problem, which indeed puts one in a bad situation.
What I mean is this: Relative truth basically claims that if I believe it, it is truth. But imagine that there is a God who created everything, and is more powerful than everything. In that case, whether we choose to believe he is alive or nonexistant has no effect on the fact that he IS alive. You said God does not exist in Your belief system... do you believe he exists in mine? If the God I believe in is real, he is indeed real, whether you believe it or not. There is no relativism in the existance of the Christian God. Do you believe you're the highest power in your life? Are you atheist or agnostic?
I was showing you that you took the analogy too far. We are humans. The bible says we were made in God's image, but we are not directly his children... in the sense that we are baby gods. **** Hosea chapters 1-3 is a great passage. In it God talks about how he will forsake Isreal and call then "not his children", and that a time is coming when they will be his children again. Romans 9 is a controversial passage that talks about how God hated Esau. 1 John talks about how we are not God's children if we do not follow in his commands. I hope those suffice. A blog is a personal webpage where people rant on about their opinions, whether it be on govt, sports, life, whatever. ...more later, maybe. in Love, -Jon |
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Loved_by_God 18:13:38 Mon May 9 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
I agree that that is where society is going. However, I think this is dangerous. Violence, immorality, sin in general is growing all over the world, and I think it's leading the world to a bad place. "We have to come to the place in our lives where we are willing to believe in something bigger than ourselves. This world was here beofre me, and it will be here when I'm gone. To think that anything I believe is true... that is foolishness. If there is a God, I cannot believe him out of existance, nor can I make a loophole in his plan by believing something against the foundation he has laid." I posted that^ again because I think it's really key for the agnostics out there.
Please respect me enough to not try and make me your punching bag. With our discussions I've been torn between responding or not responding... mainly because of your closed mind, stubborness, and rudenss. No offense, I hope. That's jusdt what I see. If you aren't interested in what I have to say, you don't have to respond. But if you want to engage me in conversation... please... be respectful. |
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Janus_Zeal 18:54:08 Mon May 9 2005 Offline 650 posts Black Pope [mod] Reply |
LBG, you have to lighten up a little here. He proved that he's being respectful to you by telling you his true motives. Funny thing is that it's the exact same thing that motivates me to get into these debates. Personally, I think he's taken more disrespect from you than you from him (five bucks says you're gonna ask me to point out exactly where you disrespected him [and you'll have the question in your head before you even start reading the parenthesis]). Oh, about your response to me, before you go accusing me of dodging your questions or something...
Of course you're familliar with it. You just don't know it by name. The Pascal Wager goes as follows: Scenario 1: The Bible is untrue a.) You don't believe in The Bible b.) You believe in the bible In this scenario, choosing a or b will be of no consequence. Scenario 2: The Bible is True a.) You don't believe in The Bible b.) You believe in the bible This scenario twists things around. If you choose a, You'll burn in Hell for all eternity. But if you choose b, You go to a place of eternal happiness. So it would be better to choose b. That's the basic rundown of it. It's set by Christians as a trap for the weakminded. It also relies on human selfishness. "Yeah, let me believe in this just so I can secure my spot in heaven if it even exists". What a silly gesture it is, but people must eat it up or you people wouldn't keep using it.
Not by searching EVERYWHERE? We are restricted to churches and The Bible in our search for the truth? Then what of the many other things in this world that God supposedly brought about? Couldn't these things, in all their vastness be just as imperetive in our search as a book or building with haunting images contained within? I've been through The Bible, I'm relatively sure I got what I needed from it. I was raised Catholic, so I've been to church many times as a child. Those places frighten me and I avoid setting foot in one unless I have a funeral to attend.
This one made me giggle. Paganism dates itself back to the begining of time as well. Anyone can CLAIM that their religion dates back to the begining of time, but with no written records to validate any of them, you have no case. But looking at it logically, I would say that other things were practiced before the Judeo/Christian god came into play. Most likely, that wasn't thought up until man was fairly cilvilized. And my last response that you responded to really wasn't all that important since I was joking anyway. Well, I was stating the first thing that popped into my head, so.... |
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TDbear 19:34:37 Mon May 9 2005 Offline 567 posts bishop Reply |
1) i know, given the ambiguity of my views in my posts, that you may very well think i would say that, so i must apologise. but no, i would never say that about a theist, maybe 3 years ago when i was lost (spiritually), but not now. 2) i'm neither an atheist because i have beliefs in the supernatural, and i'm not agnostics per say because i'm prety sure what the 'higher' power is. in our case, its simple. you 'know' (believe) it to be God, and i believe it to be something else (this is the 'per say' part as i cant give a specific answer to what it is) perhaps i should have l made my last comment longer. i like argueing for the sake of arguing because it gives me a release from stress. but i never mean to victimise people, or 'make them my punching bag' so i truly apologise if you feel that i have done so. yes i am stubborn, because like you, i am steadfast in my opinions, and close-minded about certain issues (namely anything to do with homosexuality... you can probably guess why). i am also sorry for my rudenes. i am very interested in what you say, because you are very different from the majority of christians i know (infact i only know one other who is similar to you, and he was my first boyfriend), what i mean is, your not a bible basher, you have a very real connection to your saviour, and even through your posts, that connection gives you a brilliant glow. i find your posts very informative, despiste my different view and interpretation of some things (going back to the gay thing again)
this is one of those, agree to disagree things, you believe i is so, i do not, and the only way we will find out who is correct in their belief when we die.
i've mentioned it before, but have yet to get an answer (unless you have said something and i missed it?) leviticus contains all the rules that the jews were to live by, their 'coven'? but paul 'turns around and says' something like "these rules no longer apply to christians" or am i mistaken? well going by that, that makes sense, but why, if those rules dont apply to pastors, priests, reverands (and some bigoted christians) do they mention them (namely when attacking gays) if they are irrelevant to christians?
as i have said, i am neither. no i dont believe i am the highest power in my life, but the way i see it, when i have completed my journey (as i believe we all do, by living these mortal lives, and being reborn) and have learned all of 'life's' lessons, i will accend and become one with the higher power. if in some next life, it is revealed to me that this higher power is infact a god, perhaps even your god, then it could that i will rejoin it, become one with it, like i am but a fragment of it, which is similar (at least i think so) to your belief that we go to heaven and be with god. sorry if you dont agree with that, but i like to draw similarities between things, it puts things in a simpler perspective that my mind can comphrehend, if you get what i mean. ok, i do see that i did go over the top with that analogy, kinda went into a rant, my apologies. thank you for the references, i'll find some time to have an read of them, and i'll do it with and open mind. again i do apologise for my rudness and if i seemed to single you out in any way. i do try to be respectful, but my frustrations and short fuse get the better of me. |
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Loved_by_God 20:01:16 Tue May 10 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
TDBear,
thanks for your post. It's like you're a whole new person  . I truly appreciate the things you said. I am beginning to see more of what you believe, which is helpful to understand where you're coming from in terms of your spiritual views. Thanks for your apologies and humility.OK... what leviticus says, and what the new testament says. If someone believes the old testament to be true, but not the old testament, they'd be Jewish, and all those laws and regulations would still be in effect. Christians believe the New Testament to be true, as well as the old. What that means is that the laws of the old testament no longer apply in the strict sense that they do. There is a new covenant in Christ that replaces the old. Umm... I'm going to point to some verses in Romans that kind of explain this. Romans was written by the apostle paul to the logical, intellectual Jews in Rome. ******** Romans 1:16 - I am not ashamed of the gospel(the news about Jesus), because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes; Romans 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. Romans 13:8-10 - Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "do not steal" do not covet," and whatever other commandments there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself". Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. ***** Jesus came and said he would make a new covenant with the people of earth... a covenant meaning a promise. So now, we as gentiles(i'm guessing you aren't jewish), are held to that covenant. That we are saved through our faith in God's mercy, and we should live lives that reflect that. The jews failed to stay true to the covenant(pact, in a sense) that they had with God, so God sent his son Jesus to die as a sacrifice for sin. ...And that's what it's all about.
I can't answer for them. I've been clear that I also believe homosexual activity to be sin... as it is addressed in the old and new testaments. Some religious leaders have the idea that if people sin less, the world would be a better place... which in theory is true, i guess. But what they do is go pointing their fingers at everyone, when they too are sinners. I don't think that God wants people to accuse others of sin, but to show them Jesus Christ, through whom there is redemption and cleansing of sin. in Love, -Jon |
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Loved_by_God 20:27:40 Tue May 10 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
Hey Janus,
about the disrespect thing... my honest first response was introspective. I thought, "Am I being disrespecutful here?" Then I thought, "probably not" and kept reading... that's my honesty. Maybe my self assessment is wrong, but yeah... actually pointing out some places where I've been disrespectful would help. It's a tough line I'm trying to ride here. Because I believe that Christianity is absolute truth, and that anything that stands against it or in contradiction to it is wrong. But at the same time I'm trying to be tolerant in the sense that I will respect other's beliefs... that at the end of the day not everyone is going to believe the same thing, so why Jihad over it? My highest aim is that people would see truth. Next is that there will be peace and respect among us. About the Pascal wager thing, I believe everything you said to be true. I also believe that there is more to Christianity than a ticket to heaven, and to sell people that is to be dishonest, and selling people short. In my opinion, it's unfortunate that you were raised catholic. I've had a few experiences with the catholic church, and for the most part they've all been negative. The catholic church has beliefs that stand in contradiction to the bible. I would just encourage you to keep an open mind towards the bible and Christianity. I guess we've reached agree to disagree mode on the whole "what's the first religion" thing. I guess there really isn't hard evidence in either case. in Love, -Jon |
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TDbear 21:22:07 Tue May 10 2005 Offline 567 posts bishop Reply |
LBG- If this is what you believe, prove it. Prove that there is an older religion than the worship of the Judeo Christian God, and tell me why I should believe that that god exists. If there is a religion older than Christianity, then Christianity is false, because it dates itself to the beginning of time, and declares that there is only one God. Janus- This one made me giggle. Paganism dates itself back to the begining of time as well. Anyone can CLAIM that their religion dates back to the begining of time, but with no written records to validate any of them, you have no case. But looking at it logically, I would say that other things were practiced before the Judeo/Christian god came into play. Most likely, that wasn't thought up until man was fairly cilvilized. christianity actually dates back to around 49AD (though you could say it really emerged when jesus was born in around 15BC. judism, as it stands today dates back to around 1000BC (i am unsure as to the exact dates because i cant remember half of the information i took in from a documentery about the ancient hebres and the early torah) before that time, the early hebrew civilisation had a similar polytheistic religion to paganism, with yahweh at its head (who had a wife of which i forget her name). the thing that changed it all was a war, when a neighboring empire invaded isreal and virtually wiped the hebrews out. the survivors set about rebuilding their civilisation. in the porcess, the highest priest realised that they must centralised, and the best way to do that was to centralise the religion. he did this by gathering all the scriptures regarding souly to yahweh, and compiled them into a single set of books, the torah and the talmud. most religions claim to date back ot the beginning of time, because they all have their own explanation of it. so to debate it is futile. Loved_By_God i know you have all the best intentions that your highest aim is for people to see truth, but there are some people that will never accept something or find truth if it is 'forced' on them. what i mean is, the more you preach 'truth' to some people, the less likely they are to see it. some people have to find things like this for themselves, even if it doesn't happen until their lay on their death bed. i know the bible says that christians should spread the word of god, and that this suggestion goes against it, but perhaps those rules are a bit outdated, and people should be left to seek truth in their own way, coz i believe, that in the end, no matter what path we all take, they all lead to the same destination (just some paths are longer and/or harder than others... a bit like "you take the high road and i'll take the low road, and i'll be in scotland before yee") |
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Loved_by_God 06:08:09 Thu May 12 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
Hey TDBear,
I'm reluctant to believe that proposed history of the Hebrew people and their religion. Just because the old testament of the bible gives no hint whatsoever to polytheism. I'm interested in what source you got that info from. Regarding the last 2 paragraphs, I guess I realize that there's nothing I can do to sway anyone's spiritual decisions. But I think proclaiming truth is something we need more of, expecially in terms of Christians. People on this forum are no strangers to preachers of fire and brimstone, gay bashing, abortion riotting... things that Christianity is not about at it's core. I still don't believe that all paths lead to the same fate in terms of relative truth... but it is a happy thought that I will see everyon *in Scotland*. May your roads be straight, -Jon |
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TDbear 07:17:52 Thu May 12 2005 Offline 567 posts bishop Reply |
i got the information from a documentary that was aired on BBC 1 about a month ago.
to be blunt. of course the old testiment has no reference to any other god (exept in the ten commandments when its says "thou shlat worhsip no other god over me") because the old testiment is comprised only of scripture that concerned yahweh. one thing i should note is that after the decimation of the hebrew 'empire', there was not much left of their scripture at all, bar that of yahweh, of which there seemed to be only a small amount missing, i would reason that the priest must have taken it as an omen of the future of the hebrew nation. put it this way, its like the ancient greeks taking all written descriptions and information about Zeus, putting it al together in one single (very large) book, and then casting aside all scripture relating to any other god or goddess like athene, apollo, hades, aries, posiden(sp) in terms of theism, polytheism has been around much lnoger than monotheism. monotheism came from polytheism during an era wrought with conflict and opposing empires. and what better a way of uniting an empire than centraliing that which is at its center... the religion. its a case that if you have multiple deities, then there is dicord, the masses align their faith with one or maybe two of them, and everyone worships all differnt gods, even though they are of the same religion. now, if you centralise the religion around one god, usually the 'head' god, in the hebrews case, yahweh, then the masses flock to worship of that single deity and thus united as a people. the archiologysts on that program discovered that the figure moses, could not have written the first books at the time he is said to have done because of the historical and cultural situation. but in fat, another priest compiled those books from information he had gathered, then authored it by moses. the narrator of the programme even when to great lenghs to say that the program was not about disproving the old testiment, or the things written in it, but simply give a more accruate historical explanation to the events, like there already was a nation of isreal before moses lead the slaves across the desert for 40 years. i apologise that i could not find any internet sources relating to it, but i will endever to search more. personally i have to disagree about the proclaiming truth part. to me it would be like sticking someone in a room full of car horns and telling them to listen for a person playing a triagle, its virtually impossible to distinguish 'the right sound' from the noise. what i mean is, there are so many various religions in existance, all preaching 'the truth' as they believe it, that a person struggling to find them self spiritually wont be ale to do so by listening to all of them. as many christians say, if you want to find god, you must open your heat first, then he will find you. i did not come to the truth i know by listening to the rambling of religious fanatics or preachers(christian, muslim, hindu or any other), i found it... or rather it found me when i stopped, sat and opened my heart for it to find me. if there is an absolute truth, then all paths lead to it, regardless of the 'relative' truth that a person thinks they know. that what i meant about allpaths being differnt, some long, some short, some hard, some smooth. in the end, they all lead to the same place, but we aint gonna know what tht place s until we get there. Basically you aint gonna KNOW there is a heaven until you die, while your alive, you can only believe there is. |
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Loved_by_God 20:06:52 Thu May 12 2005 Offline 109 posts confessor Reply |
My only problem with your last paragraph is this:
If there is an ultimate truth, and all paths lead to it, then why do the paths directly conflict each other? That just seems illogical to me. |
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ragdoll_romance 20:15:42 Thu May 12 2005 Offline 66 posts priest Mood Now:  Post Mood:  Reply |
Loved_By_God, i respect you for realizing this >I guess I realize that there's nothing I can do to sway anyone's spiritual decisions. But I think proclaiming truth is something we need more of, expecially in terms of Christians. People on this forum are no strangers to preachers of fire and brimstone, gay bashing, abortion riotting... things that Christianity is not about at it's core.
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TDbear 07:06:21 Fri May 13 2005 Offline 567 posts bishop Reply |
perhaps if the ultimate truth is a god, and it is all part of that gods plan?
perhaps it is just toying with us, giving mixed messages to various different people. if that is the case, then who are you to quesiton its logic? if the ultimate truth is not a god per say, but a force that encompases all things, then it is the beginning and end, it is the destniation for all paths. if the ultimate truth is that there is nothing supernatural, no god(s), now heaven, no hell, no spirit realm, no angels. then they are all figments of the limitlessness that is the human mind, a mind that we have only just begun to unlock its potential. the paths conflict each other because they are different, if they were all the same, then there would be no conflict and until we have found the absolute truth, we aren't going to know if the path we took to get there was the shortest, the hardest, the longest or whatever. |
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