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Toppan
03:00:39 Thu
Jul 17 2003

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inquisitor


Mood Now: Loopy
Post Mood: Surprised

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Re: Under God

who is god's god then??? hehe bet you cant answer that
BTW i saw this book, 255 questions for the bible:answered in a magzine i was reading, maybe you guys should check it out, might clear up the clutter of this forum a wee bit.

so your offended by the pledge, BIG WHOOP, ever noticed that no matter how hard you try, you will never win, america is 97.9% xian, so your hope of gathering all the atheists in america fora revolt for the pledge would be really really pointless (sorry it sounds like im bitchin) its ok for us to argue it about right here, and it might be ok if we actually try to revolt, but still, its hopeless

books dont really mean shit though, just liek your frickin quran, that jewish bible (forgot name) and the stupid ass bible. you know what? all the good religions make you think, not let you read.

i need to take up smoking

Toppan the Asatru



---
I don't claim to be a Viking--or even a warrior.
I don't wear ancient costumes or horned helmets, and
I'm not out to convert you or your kids: you keep your religion to yourself, and I'll return the favor.
I believe in Odin, Thor, and Freyr--not "THE God". I believe in Freyja, Frigga, and Idunn--not "THE Goddess."
I believe in respect for tradition and ancestors--but not in racial supremacy;
in standing up for my rights--but not bashing everyone else's.
Asatru is a real religion! With real gods...from the Eddas!
And we have thousands of followers around the world!

I am Toppan T. Gledsker, an Honorable Asatru.
Watch out Valhalla, here I come!
 
 
Facet
19:58:34 Wed
Jul 30 2003

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blasphemer

Mood Now: Headphone_Heaven
Post Mood: Magic_Man

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Re: Under God

Torah.

Anyway I'm glad me parents left the US A before I went to school.

Now I am pretty much offended when this dislectic dubya guy says to an international (!) audience "And May God Continue To Bless America".
Even though I think I am an agnost.

  
Enlightened101
06:40:52 Thu
Jul 31 2003

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Black Pope [mod]

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Re: Under God

If god blessed america, then Bush would never have come here. That, or god just has a really fucked up sense of humor.

  
TheKill
12:02:27 Fri
Dec 26 2003

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priest

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Re: Under God

INSANE AND HYPOCRITAL!!! yer insane or at least uninformed the two words under god was added to the pledge in the 1800s it sounds much better as ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. it should be taken out as well as in god we trust on the money.

  
nightwalker297
02:20:22 Fri
May 7 2004

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blasphemer

Mood Now: Paranoid

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Re: Under God

Thats why I don't say the pledge. Sure there are other reasons to, but this is one of my top reasons.

  
TDbear
14:42:14 Sun
Feb 20 2005

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bishop


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Re: Under God

i have to say that i looked at this thread, and laughed.

america was founded by DEISTS, not christians; people who believed in a creator being who is above all, BUT does not reveal itself to humans by any means, has no '10 commandment' that people must follow or go to 'hell' when they die.

they founded your nation with the promise of religious freedom (which at the time, they did not have here in britain because btriain had a mixture of a monarchy and a theocracy).... EVERYONE has the right to believe what ever the fuck they want.

but, if you look at the world as it stand today, and the nations of thw world and their 'beliefs' etc we see this

the middle-east (iraq, iran, syria, saudi-arabia, afganistan, palistine etc etc).... they are islamic countries, where by 99.99% of the populous are mulims and follow the laws and teachings of allah, and thus the laws of the countries are based on an islamic theocracy. exception being isreal, that is mostly judism

africa(though it is a continant itself) the countries are devided between islam (egypt namely), chritianity(namely the church of england) in most of the developing countries, and indiginous african faiths within the most 'primitive of tribes'.

india/pakistan- devided between hinduism, budhism and islam

china, north/south korea, russia.... all prodominantly athiest and in some cases, restrictive of religion).

japan, thailand, malaisia, far east... prodominantly buddhist, but also significant numbers of other religions

australia, new-zeland, UK, the EU. these countries have the bigest diversity of religous beliefs in the world, and everyone IS free to believe what they want. there is no prodominant religion.

USA- vastly prodominantly christian, with smaller comunities of judism, and atheism (dont think i know of anywhere where there are muslims in any large ammounts). and from what it appears, the US is steadily becoming a theocracy, which mirrors that of the middle-east.

if any nation makes reference to a deity, ANY diety, in any form (e.g, the words "in God we trust" on the US currency), then it is asserting that religious belief is behind that institution or document. reference to a diety, namely God (spelt with a capital G) is making a clear reference to the judeo-christian god of the bible.

references to 'God' belong only in religious institutions, not in the public domain, and CERTAINLY not in a pledge of alligiance to a nation. speaking from a non-us point of view, if i for any reason decided to migrate to the US, and thus would have to make that pledge, i would refuse to say it if i had to make a pledge that included something i did not believe in. i do no worship the xtian god, so to force me to make a pledge, aknolodging it would be agasint my rights.

i do have to apologise to the atheists in america tho because this could shed some light on why the "under God" comment was added.

"It was not until 1954 that the US Congress added "under God." A British citizen and Presbyterian pastor George Docherty played a key role in persuading President Eisenhower to support the change. He had regularly sung "God Save the King" as a child in Scotland and resented the absence of reference to a divine being in the American pledge."

so i apologise on behalf of the rest of the UK :sad:

the british pledge of alligiance makes no reference to any god, but does say this

"Being a Catholic/Hindu/atheist/Methodist/agnostic/Baptist/Muslim/other I recognise the supremacy of the Church of England in all spiritual matters and its right to a privileged place in the government of my new country. Furthermore I freely acknowledge my obligation to give financial support to that Church and recognise the right of its archbishops to sit in the legislature for as long as they hold office in the Church of England and without benefit of election. I acknowledge that the separation of church and state has no place in the traditions of this nation and is therefore of no merit"

now, while personally i do not like this, and think that saying it is my duty to give money to the CoE goes against my beliefs, or that the church has a privilaged place in my government. but (and this could change when charles comes into power) lizzie (current queen) has made it clear that everyone should have the same rights and privilages (benifits me coz i'm gay and i'd like to marry my fiancee with all the benifits that come with it, like if i die), so i have no problems there.


its ironic to think that your founding fathers wanted to escape us because of religious oppression, and now, (how many hundreds is it?) 300? years later, the situations have switched places, and your the country with increasing religious oppression, and we 'limeys' are the ones with the religious freedom.

LOL
[1 edits; Last edit by TDbear at 19:04:47 Sun Feb 20 2005]

  
n0g0d
08:35:19 Mon
Mar 7 2005

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110 posts
Lucifer [admin]

Mood Now: Annoyed
Post Mood: Annoyed

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Re: Under God

actually many were christian, jefferson, the author of the declaration of independence was the most obvious deist, a few others hinted at a deistic view, but jefferson one of the primary hands in creating this nation and clarifying the constitutional rights was in fact a deist.

this by itself means very little, but it helps to remind us that were are not a christian nation as far as our government is concerned. sure congress and many courts will open with some sort of prayer that asks for guidence from the christian gods, but this is the faith of the individuals in the government not the government itself.

the actual documents that bind this nation together do not speak of god or religion except in reference to the absolute freedom of religion and a non-descript creator that has endowed us with inaleable rights. however it says nothing at all about the judeo-christian bias in law!

as much as christians want us to be a christian nation, we are not, not a single law says it is based on the teachings of the ten-commandments, yet we have nearly every single christian defending the ten-commandments as the basis for our laws! it makes no sense! also "in god we trust" on our money & "under god" in the pledge while fairly harmless, were put there to promote a general acceptence of faith in god (and more specifically the true god of christianity), while we fought the atheistic communists! it was placed there out of fear of us somehow becomming communists if we didn't encourage faith in god!

secularism is being attacked viciously and our government is being hijacked by radical religious lawmakers and judges who wish to show bias in the relm of religion and promote their views of proper morality and religion above all others! then they claim the attempts to restrain these individuals and bring back our non-biased government with it's secualr nature is an attack on religion. sure many people do hate the religions of the world and those that try to force their personal faith upon others, but attempts to simply create equality for all, rather than a majority rule in the relm of religion is in no way an attack on religion itself. actually it's an affiration of the 1st ammendment, it encourages the government to remain silent so that individuals can worship freely in any way they choose without pressure.

i am a military man, i love my country and if necessary will fight when called, but it does pain me to hear the bastardized version of our pledge, as much as i wish to not change it, i must remove those two words 'under god' in order to say it in it's true form with the enphasis on loyalty to the union, rather than god!

what exactly are christians so scared of that they require their views to be forced upon all? if we really are 97% christian then everyone of them knows that god is in control and there is no need for the government to enforce proper god worship! maybe they are scared that if they don't make us believe, we will realize just how silly it is to believe and maybe we'll become grotesque atheists with our loose morals and no fear of an afterlife!



---
Jesus is coming! Spit or Swallow?
 
 
BodaciousB
03:12:31 Tue
May 31 2005

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7 posts
blasphemer

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Re: Under God

I didnt read the Entire thread, but this is how i view the subject...

Under god should be removed from the pledge, it should be taken off of our currnecy as well. But, we all know that is not going to happen...

so do as i do... everytime you say the pledge, throw a different god in there... Allah, buddah, ganesh, and so on...

But if you REALLY want to turn some heads your way... One nation under Satan!
[1 edits; Last edit by BodaciousB at 03:13:16 Tue May 31 2005]

  
epskoro
15:30:31 Wed
Jun 1 2005

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12 posts
blasphemer

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Re: Under God

My view on this is quite simple: the pledge and our currency were both more than adequate BEFORE the McCarthyite revisionists inserted their religious content in the 1950s. Both the pledge and our currency should be returned to their original format WITHOUT the reference to Middle Eastern dieties. The United States is NOT a Middle Eastern country and it is NOT founded on the principles of any Middle Eastern creation myth.

Maybe it's just me, but I do not think the Middle East is a good model from which to pattern our behavior.



---
I reject only one more god than the believers
 
 
TDbear
23:00:22 Thu
Jun 2 2005

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567 posts
bishop


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Re: Under God

are you refering to middle-eastern as in judism (and subsequently original christianity) or further east as in islam?

as its become fairly aparant, america was founded by theists who didn't like the way the british government was run (monarchy/theocracy), and wanted to run a country their own way (but still in belief that the universe was 'created').

you could look at the insertion of the phrase simply as a metaphor, like most people do withe the "God say the queen" here in the uk. look at it as its not an assertion of a diety ruling the country, its just a metaphor saying that they have some kind of grand authority.

you know when you say "oh for god sake" or "oh my god" or "jeezus christ" or "for christs sake", its just embedded in the unconcious mind, it doesn't mean that if you say it you acknowledge the existence of said 'god'.

but then again, on the face of it, it really doesn't make any sense, like that song form black-eyed-peas, talking about "where is the love" and yet saying "father father help, need some guidence from above"... why are they asking for help from god when its religion thats the cause of all the worlds major problems.


sorry ranting again


  
ragdoll_romance
03:02:20 Sun
Sep 11 2005

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priest

Mood Now: Frozen
Post Mood: Playful

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Re: Under God

It's your right to not say the pledge if you don't agree. Either have some fun, like bodacious b said, throw in satan, but be sure to say it really loud, or just sit down and not say it. That's what i did last year when they forced us in school, just sat down and didn't do shit, and during our moment of silence, of course you say things, saying "say satan" in a whispery voice to your neighbor will turn heads too.

  
Tsukatu
06:03:36 Mon
Sep 12 2005

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177 posts
inquisitor

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Re: Under God

I never respected the pledge of allegiance before they took out the "under God." But I also don't think it's our place to be so submissive to these theistic fucks that so badly want America to be a Christian country (even though it kind of is right now :/). We need that shit taken out of our pledge instead of being so submissive.



---
"Faith in God is no more than the measure of how desperate someone is for purpose and companionship that they suspend reason." - Yours truly.

"A man should be as proud of his faith in God as he is proud of his addiction to heroin." - Me again.
 
 
randomheartake
02:52:59 Mon
Jan 19 2009

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5 posts
blasphemer

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Re: Under God

WTF?! if you guys are truly athiests or whatever then it shouldn't matter to you wether it is in the pledge. It should not effect you in the least. It is there simply to make the christians feel better so whatever. the same with the word christmas.why do all of these non religeous people care?it doesnt effect them. all im sayin is why start some big thing to take two meaningless ,if your athiest, words out of the pledge,no one ever said you have to say them. the pledge sounds just fine as "One nation,indevisible with liberty and justice for all."

  
John_Lockenloade
03:29:12 Thu
Nov 26 2009

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2 posts
blasphemer

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Re: Under God

Just changing one word should do the trick...drop "under" and put in "without". That wouldn't violate anyone's rights, would it, Xtians?



---
“Time spent in being liked could better be devoted to liking being.”
-Anton S. LaVey
 
 

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