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6 people online in the last 60 minutes - 0 Canucks, 0 Canucks In Hiding and 6 Visiting Canucks. (Most ever was 233 at 09:22:13 Fri Sep 21 2007) |
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valjean I'm Asleep  299 posts   Mood Now:  
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Amy Dickinson is on vacation this week. Here are some of her favorite questions and answers from August 2003.
---------- Dear Amy: I am 25 and have been married for three years. For the past few months, I've been seriously considering starting a family. My husband wants to wait until we've traveled more and are more "financially stable." My problem with this is that we haven't traveled yet, and we're both in secure jobs, putting money away. I don't know when or if anyone is ever fully prepared for a child. I don't live in a fantasy world where I believe everything will be a bed of roses. I expect sleepless nights, endless worry and expenses, less quality time with my husband, the terrible 2s through 20s and the end of weekend partying. I want to move on with our lives. I've talked with my husband and I always hear the same thing -- wait. I want each of my children (we both want two or three depending on how we're handling two) to be about 2-3 years apart in age, and I don't want to be having children into my mid-to-upper 30s. Can you help me out? -- Challenged Over Children Dear Challenged: Well, I could lend you a teenager for a weekend and see if your plans change. You might think it's a shame that your husband isn't adhering to your timetable, but remember, he gets to have a timetable too. There are two of you in this decision process, and I can't come up with ways to help sell your husband on the idea, except to urge you to stop doing the math. Your calculations -- about the number of children you want to have, the amount in your bank account and your ideal age for pregnancy and child rearing -- are thoughtful and probably accurate. But please relax! The reasons your husband cites for not wanting to have a baby right now could be a way of saying that he's just not ready. Maybe he doesn't feel like a grown-up yet, or maybe he's worried that he won't be any good at fatherhood. Pushing him isn't going to make the process go any faster, so I'm wondering if you can back off a bit, book an adventurous trip for the two of you to take on your next vacation, and have a philosophical, non-specific, non-panicky conversation about parenthood while you're there. Do not bug him on a monthly basis when you happen to be ovulating, OK? Dear Amy: What is the polite way to respond to someone who tells you they didn't get into the college you go to? I usually find myself saying something like, "Yeah, well, I hear admissions is getting more difficult," but to me, that's apologizing for something that's not my fault. How do I handle this? -- Megan Dear Megan: No, it's not your fault that someone else didn't get into your school, but from what I know of college admissions, it's not necessarily your fault that you did. It's a pretty capricious business -- even for highly qualified candidates. So a response like, "You know, the whole thing is a crapshoot, anyway," is good, I think. You should also consider changing the subject, thus: "Well, tell me where you got in and what your plans are?" Express the appropriate amount of enthusiasm. Rinse. Repeat. Dear Amy: I am a 16-year-old male. There is a girl I have become pretty good friends with for about a year now. She is part of a little group of friends that we both spend time with, about three to five other people. Recently I've noticed that I think about her constantly. I really like her and would love to be more than friends with her. The only thing I'm worried about is my friendship with her and my friendship with the rest of the group. I'm afraid things may become "weird," and I really don't know what to do. -- Confused Dear Confused: Things will definitely get weird, but sometimes, that's not such a bad thing -- if you handle yourself well. Speak with your crush directly about your feelings instead of going through other people and accept what she says, even if she says she likes you but doesn't "like" like you in quite that special way. If you start to date, your other friendships will shift too, but that weirdness should be short-lived. Like Monica and Chandler and their "Friends," you could have many happy years of friendship ahead -- followed by syndication. Good luck! |
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts  Mood Now: 
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Amy's advice in the first letter was okay, but not great. Try asking him to be more specific when he says he wants to travel more or be more financially stable. Set goals. If you have clear financial and travel goals, you know where you stand and you can make other decisions based on those goals.
Why don't you ever go anywhere? You say you are in good shape financially, so get out your calenders, pick a budget, talk locations and go. Taking vacations together is so worth it. |
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rebeccaj65 I'm Asleep 73 posts  
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Exactly. Travel, but don't put off having the baby forever if it's that important to you. You are at your peak of fertility now.
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ketzpjz I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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I say that it's best there be NO child born into this union unless BOTH parents really want and are ready for him or her. Otherwise, one or both parents could REALLY resent said child!
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Ketz, I don't think anyone is disputing that, but they won't get to a place where either one is happy w/ the decision unless they talk to each other and set some clear, defined goals. She doesn't want to just have a child. She wants her husband to want one as well. Otherwise, she wouldn't have written for advice. She doesn't strike me as the type to poke holes in the condoms or take sugar pills. She'll keep nagging and he'll keep vaguely retreating if they don't really communicate in specific terms about this.
Also, on the flip side of that, a woman's fertility is very affected by age. Some women who had no problem getting pregnant in their 20s find it very difficult in their 30s. What if they wait too long and she has age-related infertility issues? I'm not sure she could forgive her husband for that, esp. if they were waiting on vague travel and financial goals that she never felt she understood. They need to talk to each other. Plus, in a worst case scenario, he still wants kids so he leaves her for someone who can have them now that he's ready. I really don't think any of this is all that likely, but they significantly reduce the chances of unwanted children and waiting too long if, and I'm going to repeat myself here, they communicate clearly and specifically with each other. |
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rebeccaj65 I'm Asleep 73 posts
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Good post, Hawhaw. Also it does say in the letter that he does want kids ("…we both want two or three depending on how we're handling two"), but it's just a matter of putting it off into the vague future. I personally don't think this is a good idea. Plans need to be made to ensure that they don't wait until her fertility starts declining. If they want to travel and also have children, then now is the time to travel. Instead, they seem to be waiting around squirreling their money away for travel in the future.
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LadyBlueEyes I'm Asleep posts 
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The other possibility here is that he either really doesn't want kids, or is just really ambivalent, whether he's changed his mind from their original discussion, or never really wanted kids to begin with. He could just be using his desire to travel as a means to put things off without telling Challenged his real feelings…especially since she says they have money to travel, but haven't done so. She needs to pin him down to a timetable…say we'll spend the next 2 years traveling, which they can reasonably do by taking a few weekend trips, and then 1 longer-distance-and-time trip per year. That should satisfy his travel bug, if it's not just an excuse. If he won't agree to this timetable, or continues with his vague excuses, then they may need to seek counseling to overcome this problem.
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hkgirl_91  I'm Asleep posts Mood Now: 
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I'm of half a mind to suggest that she flat out accuse him of lying to her about wanting kids so she wouldn't leave.
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ketzpjz I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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This may not win me any popularity contests but . . .
having a baby JUST to beat the bio clock is a rather selfish thing, IMO! There are plenty of babies out there needing good homes who one COULD adopt if one doesn't find a good co-parent by the time the clock's alarming so I reject the 'we must have one NOW or else' argument! |
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rebeccaj65 I'm Asleep 73 posts
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That's true, Ketz, as long as they are willing to adopt a kid who is a little older and maybe of a different race than them. I've also heard that people who try to adopt in their late 30s are often told they won't be considered because they are "too old". I agree that having a baby just to beat the bio clock is maybe not the best idea, but if they think they definitely want kids no matter what, it doesn't do to leave it until age 38 and then be bitterly disappointed.
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hkgirl_91 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Ketz, she isn't writing because she wants to beat the bio clock. She's writing because as far as she's concerned, they're as ready as a human couple can be to have kids and he still says "wait".
And since the only indication in her letter that he wants kids at all is her saying he wants kids, while all of his actions look just a tad like the actions of someone who doesn't want kids but doesn't have the guts to say so, I think it behooved her to cut to the chase and demand a timetable or an admission that he doesn't want kids. |
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Ketz- Do you read entire posts or just wait until you can find something to agree or disagree with? No one has made the "we must have one NOW or else argument." Pretty much everyone is making the talk and set goals argument in some form or another.
I never said they should have children just to beat the biological clock. As a matter of fact, I have said since my first post that they need to communicate clearly and specifically and set goals. When discussing when to start a family, one would be pretty short-sighted to not include potential fertility as an issue. My fertility related comment was basically IF they wait w/out communicating and setting goals and then she has age-related fertility issues, this issue will be an even bigger problem than it already is. Also, adoption is difficult, expensive, often takes years, and it is not covered by insurance. There are many couples that would make fine parents who cannot adopt for one reason or another. THAT is why there are so many babies waiting for adoption; it isn't that people are unwilling; they are often unable. |
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ketzpjz I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Well, I was right about one thing: My stance sure did NOT win me popularity contests in these here parts!:ohwell:
I didn't specify any posting or poster when I said that it's a bad idea to have a baby JUST to beat the clock (which IS the title of this thread). I know adoption's a long and costly process and I agree it needs to be reformed so there's fewer screw ups and delays but that doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE! Better to delay until meeting the right spouse and co-parent, jump through the adoption hoops than to guilt-trip an unwilling (for whatever reason) spouse to have a baby and the baby being resented by one or BOTH parents- especially for any children involved! |
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Ketz, this is what I don't get. No one here is suggesting she guilt trip him. No one is suggesting that she have a child with someone who doesn't want one. Even Challenged doesn't want that. Where are you coming up with this stuff? It's not your stance, it's the fact that you seem to not be paying attn to anything else that's being said.
I have a feeling the title of the thread was just to be witty and somewhat summarize the letter. Even then, it is phrased as a question and not a statement. Talking to him and setting goals does not a guilt trip make. If she talks to him and finds out that he just doesn't want children, she can make much better decisions for herself. If she talks to him and finds out that he wants $X in the bank and wants to go on a six week trip to Europe before they start a family, then they can plan from there. You seem really stuck on the fact that fertility and age may enter the conversation. They need to be discussed just like finances and emotional readiness. I don't know why discussing potential fertility when deciding when to start a family is so horrid to you. If they can't have bio children, will they try to adopt? Is it fair to ask her to tax her body into her late thirties and early forties so they can have bio children if he's not willing to start a family in the next few years? Is it fair to the potential child to risk the birth defects that are more common in children of older mothers?Pregnancy is hard on a woman's body, and the older she gets the harder it is. Adults married to other adults should have these conversations if they want children. Also, as no birth control other than abstinence is 100%, they need to discuss how they would handle a surprise (I mean emotionally and financially; I'm assuming the baby will be kept). Adoption is actually IMPOSSIBLE for some people. Not everyone who would make a wonderful parent is a rich celebrity who can afford to adopt regardless of age, health, sexual orientation or the whim of the CFS worker handling your case. Should you therefore have a child that you or your partner is not ready for and may not want? No. No one is saying that, but one cannot just casually say, well if we wait too long, we can always adopt. It just isn't that easy, and it's a shame b/c there are couples who want nothing more than to be parents and who would be wonderful parents and children who need homes and someone to love them and they are often not brought together. Adoption and foster care reform is another issue entirely, however. |
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ketzpjz I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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I responded to the part of the letter I considered relevant but I read it all. OK?
I've never said EVERYone who wants to adopt can (or necessarily should) but I wish that were considered by more folks instead of this insistance of 'I MUST have a baby from MY loins or I won't feel complete!'. If a person unjustly is denied adoption, it's sad but there's plenty of needy people they could put their nurturing energies to help if they are fated to be childless. |
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hkgirl_91 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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I think the rest of us just didn't see the bio clock issue as a major part of this woman's problem. It will be if they're still childless when she turns 30, but I don't really think the marriage will last if he expects her to wait that long.
She doesn't sound at all like the bio clock is her primary motivation. She thinks they're financially ready. She thinks they've been married long enough that the relationship is ready. And she doesn't really believe his excuses for wanting to wait, but for now she does believe he wants to have kids. I'd say the bioclock bits were mostly in response to that -- she wants to let Amy know that he knows there's a point where they just can't wait any longer if they want as many kids as she thinks they both want. The more I think about it, the more I think he either only wants 1 kid or doesn't want any. The bioclock alone may not be a good reason to have kids, but I do think the bio clock is a very, very good reason to talk to him and pin him down. "Wait" isn't a time table. And it's a very common way for folk who don't want kids -- or who want fewer kids than their spouses -- to avoid fights and divorces but still get their way about the kids. I would have no sympathy for her at all if she weren't clearly under the impression that he does want kids. And she has a right to know if "wait" means "not right now" or "not at all." |
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Thank you hk_girl.
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valjean I'm Asleep 299 posts Mood Now:
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Dear Amy: I have some advice for the young woman who wants to start a family now but her husband wants to wait.
I think she should follow her instincts and intellect and go ahead. It is her body that will experience the hormonal and physical changes as she goes through pregnancy, labor, delivery and postpartum. If she wants to start that process in her mid-20s, she has a right to try and do so. Husbands have a right to their feelings, but they don't necessarily have a right to act on them. When faced with the prospect of fatherhood, some guys have "cold feet" and would prefer to have "mommy" all to themselves. Anything worthwhile requires effort, adjustment and growth. Again, I say, it's her body. -- Grateful Mom/Grandma Dear Grateful: You seem to be saying that this married woman should go ahead and get pregnant even if her husband isn't ready to have children. You do have a point. It is her body. Yes, she could decide on her own to get pregnant. If she did so, I doubt her marriage would survive, because having a baby under these circumstances would breach the most basic marital trust. Men do have a right to act on their feelings. It is the height of disrespect for a woman to make this kind of decision without regard to her husband or partner's opinion. One goal of being in a marriage is to stay married. Having a baby without her husband's consent is a shortcut to being a single mom. |
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hawhaw77 I'm Asleep posts Mood Now:
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Ick- That is definitely not the right answer. That letter makes me feel a little dirty.
All factors should be discussed when deciding when to have children, but this side of an HONEST "oops" one should not have children until both partners have agreed to it. |
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JackieBlue I'm Asleep 216 posts   
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Woman are in most danger when they are pregnant - guess what, that extends to the helpless unborn child, as well. That Peterson sociopath had misgivings about being a father, so he eliminated the entire issue. There are risks to some women who are in perceivably happy, healthy relationships where the child is, for all extents and purposes, wanted. There is just no excuse a woman could give to justify purposefully getting pregnant when the man was ambivalent or against having a child. If you are considering having a child, the power to do so comes with the great responsibility to put someone's needs above your own - namely the innocent child who is solely dependent on it's parents.
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