| Who's Online | Stats | Memberlist | Top Posters | Search | Lost Password |
| Welcome, Register :: Log In | Welcome to our newest member, surreysinner. | |
| Users active in this forum: Anon | ||
| Users active in this thread: Guest | ||
|
31 people online in the last 60 minutes - 0 members, 1 anon and 30 guests. (Most ever was 121 at 02:27:28 Wed Oct 19 2011) |
| Pages: [ 1 2 3 4 ] |
| [ Notify ] | [ Print ] | [ Send To Friend ] | [ Watch ] | [ < ] [ > ] |
drozdandconfused  01:08:11 Fri Dec 10 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General ****  Reply |
Let me explain, grasshopper.
 I know you said JB Weld conducts magnetism. I cut off a small piece of one of your cylindrical magnets, tested how hard it grabbed a bb, then used some of the excess JB Weld I had after doing my mag head to encase it much like it will be if I do the other alignment mod, and it reduced the strength of the magnets hold, having to pass through the JB Weld. Pheewww. | ||||
| Mood: |
camracer  00:40:24 Fri Dec 10 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000  Reply |
DnC, ....What?...JB Weld...Reduced hold... What Not following your thoughts at all! I'm sorry, I may have had too much beerr. Explain again....? | ||||||
| Mood: | Mood Now:  ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 23:27:06 Thu Dec 9 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
Yeah, I think one of my guns is down for that. I tried to get a regular Drozd for parts, but that fell through. Still looking though. TBK, if you can, give me an idea what you got in mind.
My friend TomC w/the CNC studied my mag the other day and pretty much wanted to redesign the whole thing, at least cut a new mag head w/better specs. He had some good ideas. Right now my focus is that alignment. I still have one good barrel I don't want to F up. Going to do the JB Weld with a small piece of magnet in it to my other mag today (Newbies fix idea) I tested a piece of magnet in a bit of the JB Weld and it did reduce the amount of hold that it had before, so I my not be able to get enough magnet in there and maintain a good alignment. We'll see. | ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 22:56:52 Thu Dec 9 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
OK, TBK,
I am with you 100%! I will do mods until I've "destroyed" my gun. NOT afraid to do it!  "DnC - are you up for removing some frame material if it helps with the barrel destruction problem and general alignment?---TBK" .... I am! I bet DnC will put his .02 in, also!........ Don't Know What's in your mind yet, But .... NEED TO Know! Keep in mind, I have one gun right now, sooo... need to keep cost down! I'll tell you right now in case anyone hasn't got it yet....... I definitely have the "Moxie"!! to get it done! "Camracer 7 OMA" anyone!!  heh!, Heh!! | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
Tbkahuna  21:19:57 Thu Dec 9 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000  Reply |
I'm still waiting on the tool and the stainless. I'll try to make a first run once I get the goods.
I wasn't thinking of something so much to help with alignment, but new parts that worked better. I'm not sure anyone else is with me on making permanent mods to the frame, though. I think some of them may be very worthwhile. Stay tuned... DnC - are you up for removing some frame material if it helps with the barrel destruction problem and general alignment? Cam- are you working on the Johnny 7 OMA?!?! TBK | ||||
| Mood: |
|
drozdandconfused 03:28:40 Thu Dec 9 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
I always ass-umed that it did lock into something, but it does not. You're right, it could very easily. Got my gun apart now and will look into it. I was planning on putting a small metal plate above my mag or under the picatinny rail, just in case my magnet decides to become a projectile!
| ||||
| Mood: |
|
Mrnewbie 03:16:30 Thu Dec 9 2010 Offline 171 posts BBMG Brigadier General *  Reply |
I am drinking was and thinking..bad idea, I developed a thought on the alignment issues..
Sorry for crummy pic  Notice the top of the bb magazine, it has a nice little machine slot on the top..it forms a nice 1" wedge shape. It looks to me like this part was made to mesh up to another part. What are we doing with it in the Drozd or BB..nothing. Some kind of fitting up in the drozd frame/body could sure help the alignment and tighten up the whole mag area.. Maybe a block of aluminum up in frame, with a notch/ groove ..? Just a fleeting thought.....its gone now | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now:  ( Grumpy ) |
|
camracer 23:44:37 Wed Dec 8 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
WELL DONE DnC!! That looks great!! I would suggest the JB Weld It's stronger for this application.
And, whether or not the bb in contact with the breech gasket is NOT the only issue. The magnet will ONLY hold the bb in position. There will be NO damage to the gasket because of position,(when aligned). The Pressure that is expelled from the valve is what is doing a lot of damage to that gasket, even without the bb in place! You Know, ICE COLD, then being "hammered" 1200x per minute!! The issue with the "chipped" nickel plating is only that there may be some oxidation of the magnet given time. NO issue if encased in JB Weld. See Ya, ---Cam | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 18:21:28 Wed Dec 8 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
Hello cam, yeah I've never liked that mag latch but mine seem to be OK there as I can't really push them up any higher and they don't fall out.
Thanks again for the magnets. I'm almost there, just haven't decided on JB Weld or PC7 as my bonding agent. Here's a pic of cam's mag mod:  And here's one of the alignment:  I like your idea to angle the magnet so the bb actually protrude out of the mag head a little, but was concerned about contact with the barrel gasket, and we all know how brittle those become. Even though the bb would probably back off when contacting the gasket while removing the mag, I opted to go with it flush to the opening. I was also concerned about the chrome (or whatever it is) coating on the magnet. I did chip a little off during the press fit, but not enough to affect the fit. | ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 17:02:59 Tue Dec 7 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
DnC I was thinking again about your alignment issues. Got a question for you. How is the wear on the hole where the mag latch holds the mag in. The used BB mag I got my hands on was already showing signs of wear! If that gets too much wear the mag head will not be aligned perfectly. This is what I did to correct that problem area:
 I used a bushing I had lying around. I glued it in place only on the left half of the mag, so I could still take the mag apart. A washer would work just as well, just need to sink it into the plastic so it is flush with the surface. That spot is another bad design area with the BB mag. | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
camracer 15:43:28 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Hi rkr, I use nickel plated zinc in my 30 round clip mag, mostly for pest control. I will not put them in the BB mag or my prototype for fear of jamming(inconsistent sized bb's). But I WAY love them over the Daisy's! More accurate, harder hitting. I'd use Gamo but I just think they are too expensive to go through a tin every 12.5 seconds! Hopefully a new source for nickel plated lead will be found by Ballistic Products sometime soon, with better quality control! ---Cam | ||||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
camracer 15:32:39 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Thanks for chiming in Zaitsev!
I forgot to ask you in the PM I sent, Do you use lead more often than steel? And, how often do you do long full-auto bursts? ---Cam | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 15:30:01 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
I found that post about magnetizing the TOP of the mag head.
http://www.mp661k.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1226026462/14#14 He said it worked OK with an occasional recharge. I have no intention of doing this, but like to see all the innovation people come up with to solve problems. The barrel damage is definitely alignment, high psi, cold, and steel bbs. I have a feeling if I was shooting lead that there would have been a lot of deformed lead bbs and barrel jams but most likely, less or no damage to the barrel. | ||||
| Mood: |
|
zaitsev 09:13:47 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 119 posts BBMG Brigadier General *  Reply |
Hi all Cam is right! I first thought about making a new breech gasket when I started shooting at higher psi and voltage. I just did not see how damage would not be done with the standard breech and mag arrangement with regard to the BBs. Having the zinc BBs sitting in a concave, and then after firing having a 6mm hole to get through will mean BBs bouncing all over the place going through the breech opening, and then ? causing damage. I wanted to: 1. Make the breech opening stronger, and nearer to the caliber of the BB being used. 2. Move the Breech nearer to the valve via concaving the mag head. 3. By having to unscrew and screw up the barrel after fitting the mag would mean it was secure and as far to the valve as could be. Despite the above I still think the critical mod here is alignment of the BB on firing. Cam's mod is great for using the zinc BBs. I use lead BBs as well so I have to check regularly my glued up concave on the mag to make sure the BB stays central. I am starting to think that with the improvements being made on high voltage and psi that [ Continued ] View Rest Of Post | ||||||
| Mood: |
|
rkr 00:16:03 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 345 posts BBMG Major General ** Reply |
Thinking a bit outside the envelope here, why not use lead shots? They shouldn't damage the barrel. Granted you'll loose some 50-100fps but if you are plinking for fun they should be a viable option here and they do pack a punch if you want to destroy something.
| ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 00:14:31 Sat Dec 4 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Hmmn, Magnetizing the WHOLE mag head? Nah, I think my mod is a better way to go!!
 I think there may be issues with TOO MUCH magnetism. Put the magnetism where you need it only.It's great you have a buddy that can "Imagine" what could be a great idea! Is he an engineer? He's definitely not a "desk clerk"! That's where it all starts my friend!!  I do think the MAIN issue is alignment. Got to stop the bb's from bouncing off center from the mag head, and then bouncing down the barrel first! ---Cam | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 20:33:52 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
Believe me, I've been thinking about it. I need to order another barrel from JimC but I haven't decided yet. I have the parts for the tactical set up except maybe the piece that goes between the SMG part and the carbine part. Then I would order just the mock suppressor piece for my 15" barrel. He will sell whatever parts you need and is very fair on the pricing! I was thinking, when you get right down to it, that POS stock barrel failed in about 800 shots as I tried to remove it after my first test that day and NO way! TomC was thinking of some other metal type sleeve and magnetizing it. I don't think it could be magnetized enough to hold the bbs as they're pushed up the tube. That reminds me, I read somewhere that someone had tried to magnetize their mag head with one of those electro-magnetizers. Don't remember if it worked or not, but seemed like a good idea for the roll out, but does not address the alignment. Yours does both! | ||||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 19:26:33 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
DnC, Maybe TomC was thinking something like this:
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/c-8-cylinder-magnets.aspx It's the wrong diameter, but..... Using a magnet like that may not last too long at all, if you are shooting through it. Rare-earth magnets are very brittle. One bb strike and.... I agree with you on the breech gasket mod. I need to get crackin' on it! Sergey helped me find the right transistor for my power mod. should have it very soon, then breech modding! You know, now that you are talking about the original barrel, I never fired one shot through it! Because of what I learned from this forum, I went straight to JimC's 23" barrel. I think I had his barrel ordered actually before my gun arrived at my house! It'll be interesting to see the spread comparisons. Too bad you don't have a 23" barrel also! | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 17:17:40 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
I think for this recent damage it was between 6000-8000 on this gun. I've been talking to my friend TomC about the alignment issue and he also has an idea that involves a magnetized tube or sleeve that feeds the bb directly into the barrel breech. Not real clear on his plan yet, but I'll consider anything at this point. Still liking cam's magnet installed w/the CNC. TomC took a good look at all my damaged barrels yesterday and confirmed my "ball peen" theory. In fact, we took a micrometer to the threads of the stock barrel and the OD has expanded .009" in the 1/3 portion closest to the breach. The stock barrel is already much tighter in nut before the expansion, that is what made it so friggen hard to remove. I shot Gun #1 yesterday with the stock barrel and 800 psi. I can live w/the lower psi for now, makes a nice little popping noise in the warehouse, but the stock barrel? What a joke. I shot when the sun was low and could see the tracer effect, I had to do a double take. The bbs were all over the place. At 35' from the target, with the gun fixed, I'd say the bbs were hitting as area the diameter of a basketball, or bigger. I tried to video it, but not sure if it caught it. I think I'm going to video the shoot'n see targets, w/the guns in a fixed stand, gun #1 w/stock barrel, gun #2 w/my good 15" barrel and see what the spread really is. cam, your gun is ripe for the Zaitsev mod and/or TBK's idea as you don't have to keep removing your mag to reload once the barrel is screwed into the mag head. | ||||||
| Mood: |
|
Tbkahuna 15:06:43 Fri Dec 3 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
I may be thinking of something different. I'll see what Z has for an update.
| ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 14:20:53 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Tbkahuna said:"One more idea you might want to hear about... I think I could do some minor machining on the front of the mag head, extend my part back a bit, and maybe even eliminate the alignment issue!!! That would work great for the BB where the mag isn't removed so often."
Yeah, that's kind of like Zaitsev was doing. I think we should re-visit Zaitsev's breech gasket mod also. It aligns the barrel and mag head and gives the best seal, as of now. Been meaning to finish searching for better eyelets for this mod. Zaitsev, you out there? | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
windage 04:34:48 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 313 posts BBMG Major General ** Reply |
Very good ideas that are being brought up. I like the idea about the alignment but I believe the magnet rod mod would accomplish almost the same results with a lot less effort. Even a little chamfering on the inside edge of the BB exit hole might be very helpful, combined with the magnet rod mod.
The mag head to breech contact mod would be very interesting. Does anyone know how well the breech gasket seals the mag head? I am not sure how much is lost there for power. I am thinking maybe at the most 5% and the remaining what ever, goes back into the mag feed tube. Maybe we can with a chrony, single shot the Drozd with a blocked mag feed tube. That should give us an educated guess on what potential gains we may gain from this. | ||||
| Mood: |
|
Tbkahuna 03:14:33 Fri Dec 3 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
I can't find my old drawing, but found some notes on my breech idea from way back when. I was looking at stainless steel properties as I was thinking of making the actual new breech (the nut forward to the front of the frame) from stainless. I also have some some stainless steel tubing that I could use as an insert at the very back. I think it has enough wall thickness to work and the rest of the piece can be carbon steel.
The barrel hole in the frame could be drilled out to .375" diameter (from about .335" mine measures as stock in my 03 or 05 Drozd). The barrel would then be threaded to fit into the nose of the part and butt directly against the stainless insert or a shoulder in the part if the insert works as a short piece in the back. DnC - How many rounds did it take for the recent destruction that occurred from day to day? I could make it even easier if it was just for short term, high round count testing. I bought the stainless for barrels, so I could just press the new part onto a 15" piece of stainless tube and someone could give it a whirl. You'd have to leave the top off th gun as there would be no part to hold it on. One more idea you might want to hear about... I think I could do some minor machining on the front of the mag head, extend my part back a bit, and maybe even eliminate the alignment issue!!! That would work great for the BB where the mag isn't removed so often. The motor would push the bbs right up to my part, which would also be the inner barrel surface. The bb would be there, aligned perfectly with the bore, ready to blast down the barrel. I'm liking that idea a lot. That was what eventually led me to using my own valve so I could completely eliminate the mag to barrel gap AND get more power. If it works I would build and sell them. Maybe even trade for Drozd parts!! I made an addition to my shop, so I have much better machining capabilities now. TBK | ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 00:40:05 Fri Dec 3 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Whew! For sure my friend! | ||||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 20:21:25 Thu Dec 2 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
Yeah, well hopefully it won't happen to anyone else. I'll tell you what, If I only had a choice between the two, I'd take the barrel chipping apart (and being able to remove it) over hammering and mating the barrel and the nut and getting stuck in the gun, anyday!
| ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 17:35:02 Thu Dec 2 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
You know DnC, This is all too fascinating! Boy I'll tell you I'm glad you found out about this and not me!
You hit it on the nail that we will need high velocity/pressure barrels! We are definitely pushing the limits, going above and beyond!Well anyway, You will have the magnets to do your magnet mods in about 3-4 days. Dropped it in the mail this morning. Getting that alignment set will go a long way to helping you for sure!! Later, ---Cam | ||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
drozdandconfused 16:39:52 Thu Dec 2 2010 Offline 759 posts BBMG General **** Reply |
You guys are totally on the right track. You're gonna love this, or be very discouraged. Shot yesterday, Gun #2, same air, 16.6V, stock barrel. the gun shot well with the 12.5V Linear reg and OK with the 12.5V DC-DC converter with up to a 90 shot burst no air shots. Since I had the top of the gun removed for easy access to change out the reg/DC conv I could feel the barrel and nut getting very cold. After around 800 shots I wanted to change from the Linear to the DC, tried to remove the barrel, no way. Figured it was cold and the metal had contracted, so left it alone. After allowing it to warm in the sun, tried again, no way. I sh!t you not, what I screwed on the day before with my fingers, and while disassembled threaded both JimC and stock barrels through the barrel nut with ease, was completely locked. Luckily, since my gun did not have the top on it, I was able to turn my vise sideways, wrap the frame of the gun that the barrel screws in to and use the 4mm wrench with as much force as I could while holding the mag to remove the barrel.
 If my gun wasn't already partially disassembled, I don't think I would have been able to get it apart. I had to sit down and drink a few beers after that one So that is how my other threads were flattened. They are get hammered from the inside. Since the stock barrel is not hardened the metal appears to stretch like being pounded by a ball been hammer against an anvil. It appears to have flattened the threads enough. Now my stock barrel won't thread and neither will the barrel nut with any combination. But the hardened barrels flatten and crumble/chip under this pounding. So why is this happening now? I think it is a combination of things starting with the factory bb alignment. At lower pressures the metal can handle it, but as the velocity increases, t [ Continued ] View Rest Of Post | ||||
| Mood: |
|
Tbkahuna 01:08:54 Thu Dec 2 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
That's what I can't tell from the picture. It's playing tricks on me!!!
It looks odd that you can still see the thread through that area. I wouldn't expect to see a sharp crest. | ||||
| Mood: |
|
camracer 00:22:45 Thu Dec 2 2010 Offline 4933 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Yeah! The hardened outer surface! It just got "hammered off"! How did the INNER surface look? It would happen to that surface also! | ||||||
| Mood: | Mood Now: ( Rocking ) |
|
Tbkahuna 23:48:57 Wed Dec 1 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
I am short one tool from being able to make my different barrel nut. I'll try to order one tonight.
DnC - Do you have an unhardened barrel or a barrel blank of any kind? TBK | ||||
| Mood: |
|
Tbkahuna 22:54:59 Wed Dec 1 2010 Online 1671 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Is the damage down the threads at the same clock position as the gasket crack? It could just be the concentrated bb assault is at that location and it is working its way downstream. Maybe the gasket crack allowed the bbs to directly hit the very thin end of the hardened barrel and started the destruction. I could see the resultant failures would move around as pieces broke off because the path of the bb would start varying.
The last picture almost looks like a coating flaked off because you can still see the threads. Is the outlet mag hole still perfectly round, or can you see some wear and shininess around the top? or bottom? TBK | ||||
| Mood: |
| Pages: [ 1 2 3 4 ] |
| [ Notify ] | [ Print ] | [ Send To Friend ] | [ Watch ] | [ < ] [ > ] |
|
| Register :: Log In The time is now 03:25:38 Wed May 22 2013 |