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radical  03:41:20 Fri May 20 2011 Offline 4306 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000  Reply |
Self taught and ability to improvise and research are the assets. Heck, if a guy can become a multimillionaire and not be able to read, imagine the shear depth of character to get there!. Its good to be taught the basics and given some guidelines or parameters, the rest is up to the individual! Like tonight. I pulled one of the firearms I know little about. Had not seen any internal diagrams or any other info. Just pooled my knowledge and went at it to solve a bolt locking up and feed problem. In 30 minutes I had completely striped it and adjusted and changed some things that didnt look right and back together. Now racks and drops perfectly. Sometimes I get into this zone where I find myself doing stuff and barely remembering after how I did it right at all. Know what I mean? | ||||||
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DUBB  02:51:31 Fri May 20 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Well I don't pretend to have any real electronics education beyond the very basics that a mechanic needs, but I have surprising success winging it: LOOK for anything resembling charcoal, or signs of scorching. Then you put the number of the offending into the datasheet search engine I shared, and see if you learn anything. Actually, I made search drop downs for Digikey, and Mouser, too, so I just continue on by switching the DD, and the search transfers so that I can find out how much a new whatever it was, is. That's how I learned, anyway. Self Education: teaching yourself something you know absolutely nothing about, for the same reason, and crossing your fingers.
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SONYtec 00:54:06 Fri May 20 2011 Offline 3558 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 .gif) Reply |
Yup!!! 
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camracer  23:44:12 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000  Reply |
Don't worry Pal!, I didn't even come close to catching that! I haven't studied anything yet. I can build any circuit once I've studied it. But, "Tech" has far surpassed my 1980-1990 electronic knowledge!! I really NEED all the help I can get!! I still have circuit designs from 1989-1992 that could do what we are trying to do, but the components are discontinued! (......old people, huh, huh!) Heh, ...We'll get it all RIGHT soon enough! Especially since you will HAVE to solve some of the problems real soon, once you get the SB-2!!  It's all good! We have a great "crew" here!! We'll git' 'er done. ---See Ya!
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camracer 23:19:53 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
HAA! Haa! haa! They also listed, "Don't cross the blue wire with the 12v output". Especially if the battery is connected. Otherwise, ......BOOOOMMM!
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DUBB 13:29:06 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
You know what Cam, I did get confused on the project schematics I linked. I linked you to the circuit that drives a brushless speed controller, instead of the circuit for the brushed motor speed controller, here:
http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/p145-PWM-Motor-Light-Controller I hate when I do that.
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SONYtec 12:41:04 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 3558 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
I like how they say, under the list of applications, "low voltage doomsday device."
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/anyvolt3.htm
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DUBB 11:39:04 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Just one thing, the protection diode (D1) will have to be different for the LM2576, it needs to be at least 3 amps, instead of just 1 amp. I read both data sheets. Otherwise they are the same.
I expect my new board today or tomorrow, I am so exited! Say, I noticed you use the same data sheet source that I do. I made that into a drop-down search for IE7, 8, & 9, if you want it. One of the things I like about IE is that you can make just about any search engine from any site into a new search provider. The bitch was learning how those work, so I can export them. It's a registry entery, copy the following in notepad, and save as whatever, but make the extention .reg, instead of .txt, and click on it. Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\SearchScopes\{Electronic Parts Datasheets}] "DisplayName"="Electronic Parts Datasheets" "URL"="http://search.datasheetcatalog.net/key/{searchTerms}" "Codepage"=dword:0000fde9 "OSDFileURL"="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/searchguide/spbuilder.mspx?Encoding=UTF-8&Name=Electronic%20Parts%20Datasheets&URI=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.datasheetcatalog.net%2Fkey%2FTEST" "FaviconURL"="http://search.datasheetcatalog.net/favicon.ico"
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camracer 10:44:25 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Again your resourcefulness amazes me DUBB! Great finds. Only issue with the 2A version is it's 13v output. I need to push the limits or at least 21v. The 3A version would do but it IS expensive and Bulky. Yeah, I was wondering about that 1 amp output for the LM2575. I think I'll try that LM2576 you suggested. I think I may want to build the circuit so I can fit [ Continued ] View Rest Of Post
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DUBB 07:19:29 Thu May 19 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-SWADJ.htm http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DE-SWADJ3.htm These guys make the coolest regulator pakage of all, though, I think, this last one is the 3a "universal" regulator, it'll go up or down ("buck/boost"), so it can give your Drozd MORE than your batteries are. Expensive, though. http://www.dimensionengineering.com/anyvolt3.htm
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camracer 23:02:30 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
TBK, See my last post. Been consulting with the Master: 'Sergey'. Going for efficiency. All should fit inside my prototype's body. ---Cam
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camracer 22:56:39 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Here's where I'm going with this. (No LM317) Using this:
(see page 21, fig. 33) http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/6/0epqaz3x2s8gtglruwh4ik4ux67y.pdf
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DUBB 21:01:23 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
You are talking about a rheostat, that is the simplest, but least efficient way to go about it. You'd do better with a basic LM317 variable regulator (at least at my house, since I bought a dozen LM317's a while back, and still have a few). In that case, the variable resistor can be almost any, it depends on the fixed resistor you use for the R1 value, and the bonus is that you don't need it to be a huge rheostat, even just a trimpot will suffice. http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Voltage-Regulator/
One of the neat things about that is that you could use 2 317's, and combine both of these together, voltage and current control, and you would have 2 knobs, those would control both the speed, and the torque, seperately. However, this super simple basic brush motor speed controller has much more appeal to me, now, but possibly because I haven't built one yet. http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/p286-NE555-Basic-Monostable If you decide on the last one, the basic speed controller, it wants a 10k ohm variable. I just found that one, and I have been looking for a project to controll a brusless speed controller, too, maybe I confused myself. But the 317 setup has big appeal, going with a couple of 100 ohm pots is good there, since 100 ohms is the perfect variable to use for the current controller as well, and in that casse, a couple of 10 ohm resistors for the voltage controller is all you would need, on for the r1, and another to go inline with the 100 ohm pot for the r2 gives a 15v max, and it will have a maximum output of about 22 watts, that's a lot more than you can get out of TBK's 5 watt pot.
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Tbkahuna  19:42:18 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 1450 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000  Reply |
I'm falling further behind!!! Arggggh.
I used a 5 watt, 100 ohm variable resistor for my mag motor speed control and got the rpm ranges I posted several weeks ago. I just calculated the range from what I wanted to end up with for voltage, used the max voltage and the current requirement of the motor to get resistance (R). V=IR. R=V/I. I also have some high wattage fixed resistors to be able to switch speeds and have a (roughly) finite voltage drop and mag speed by just flipping a switch. That's the brute force method, I guess. Those were the resistors I bought when I bought some more Nichibo motors as my mag fleet expanded. All of it was from Jameco. TBK | ||||
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camracer 16:02:28 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
No, unfortunately, It doesn't mean anything to me. Probably just a part # from whoever sold it originally. I am going to order speed controller parts soon. I want to use a volume control (potentiometer) for the adjustment control. Gotta raid my "parts bin". Any idea how much resistance might be needed? (20K ohm potentiometers I just saw at Radio Shack today, I think that will be way more than enough).
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DUBB 12:06:06 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Oh yeah, my Mabuchi RS-380PH also has the number RN546726 on it. Mean anything to you that I should know?
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DUBB 12:01:19 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Jameco has those ic's for the diy speed controller for only $.25. It doesn't look any harder, or more expensive to build that, instead of an LM317 type voltage regulator, and the former would be a LOT more efficient on the batteries, since it works on a switching principle, as opposed to ballast resistance. I want to build one now, really bad. You know what one of the projects on that site is an electromagnetic gun, I wanna build one of those, too, but BIGGER.......
I'll be out there stealing transformers off of the utility poles under cover of darkness.......
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camracer 10:31:01 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
I can explain. Hopefully your 380 motor has a "dash -xxxxx" number after the PH? That number designates the windings' wire diameter and how many turns. Motor speeds, as you know depend on that wire diameter and # of turns (as well as magnet type i.e. rubber vs. ceramic vs. rare earth) That number at the end MAY NOT be listed. If it isn't, then it's a "crap shoot" as to which model it really is. Rated speeds can vary widely. That Nichibo QJT motor is the choice motor that TBK and I are both using in our prototypes. And we both bought them from Jameco! It's diameter is about an inch by 1 1/2". (Bigger than the Blackbird's motor). Good find on the controller. I'll bookmark it. I still need to order components for the speed control I need to build. By the way, here's a graph on ONE model of the 380 motor that you can input your own voltage into to see motor speed(un-loaded). Pretty cool! http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/elsim.html?RS-380PH-3270/16400/0.37/14.0/93.2/4.5/15.0/12/0.0019/0.0039/0.0019/(CCW+) ---Cam
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DUBB 09:45:06 Wed May 18 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
Hey, Cam, you know wht I just figured out? That motor I picked is the same one you picked, the Nichibo. That's funny, getting that after the fact. I still can't explain the conflict with the RS380PH I am using now, what the factory says makes no sense, and I can't find anything about what I have, which is what the ad said, maybe someone rewound it. But it runs a bit slower than the original motor, and if that is 4000rpm, than 3500rpm sounds right to me. I'm still going to get one of those Nichibo's, I found a place that has them on the cheap.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_206949_-1 Oh yeah, Cam, check this out: another possible solution for your mag speed control, a diy PWM controller, and this whole site in general, has very cool electronics diy projects. http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/p145-PWM-Motor-Light-Controller
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camracer 16:54:37 Tue May 17 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Good! Keep it up!! The more experimenters we have, the better. ---Cam
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DUBB 13:16:11 Tue May 17 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
As it turned out, mashing the 380 in there squished down the terminals on the motor so that they shorted to the case, and that's what the culprit was. I know since I blew another transistor. Funny thing is, it still ran, but checking the resistance showed less than an ohm, that can't be good. I fixed the short in the mag, but boy, getting that 380 in is sure a pain in the enfelage, I don't think I'm quite done exparamenting with motors just yet.
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radical 04:59:54 Tue May 17 2011 Offline 4306 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
The critics will be watching! ;?)
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camracer 00:38:45 Tue May 17 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
My next video is pretty much complete. I just gotta cut it into two halves since it is almost 30 minutes long, so Youtube will allow the length. "The Drozd SB-2 2000 RPM Circuit Board" coming ....tomorrow?.....
 (hopefully the sound track won't be muted this time!!)  Stay Tuned!! ---Cam
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camracer 22:00:28 Mon May 16 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Genius you are, Sergey. Hold on to your "diary", because there will be more for you to put your input into. Very important to stay within the "parameters"!!! ...Agreed about the motor!! TBK, myself, And DUBB will get it right for everyone!!! We are changing the WORLD this year!! (.....ok, I did have a few beers tonight......, but it's all good!) Sergey, You will enjoy my next video, (as will everyone...hopefully), but, ....analyze the findings. Little things in the video, maybe only you will get. (not that everyone is stupid, far from it!) You will just know how to "tweak" your design and make it even better!! I think you will all get a "kick" out of the new SB-2 vid! I just want to make it COOL! And, I really want to help my friend out!  YOU know who you are! ........Stay Tuned! ---Cam
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Sergey_new_pcb 19:26:58 Mon May 16 2011 Offline 287 posts BBMG Major General **  Reply |
Right, more powerful motor damaged the transistor on the OLD board. New boards CAN cope with it if the user replaces the stock motor with something stronger.
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DUBB 19:19:38 Mon May 16 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
CAUTION: My mag stopped working, in the course of all this experamentation. It worked if I powered it up with an external battery, and the board showed fuctuating voltage when tested without the mag, and none with the mag on (my wireless mag mod makes that really easy to test for me). This led me to try changing that little transistor connected to that circuit, and sure enough, that fixed it. I think I know what I did, this time: the original motor has 15 ohms across it, while some of the other motors I have been playing around with are as low as just one ohm. Be careful about that if you do mess with the mag motor, check that you have enough (more than 1 ohm, otherwise, ????) resistance in the new motor. I understand, now, what Sergy was thinking, and why he said he used a better transistor for the mag in the new board. I don't have any idea how that would have effected what I did to mine, but I should think that more than one ohm is still a prudent rule of thumb.
My new board should be here this week!........ I fixed the transistor because I didn't want to wait even that long to shoot, and because I just had to know what I did, you know?
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DUBB 19:02:39 Mon May 16 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
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camracer 21:53:09 Sun May 15 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
Well, DUBB, You hit it on the head. "factory discrepancy". Both TBK and I have ordered motors that are NOT what the advertise!! You're not wrong, and neither am I. Heh, heh! Hey we're both always right, ...right? (I know, most of the time I'm wrong ) But, at the very least, this "library" of knowledge we are amassing will change the world! You know me, I always am listening. I not a "master" until I've "snatched the pebble"..... ---Cam
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DUBB 19:54:48 Sun May 15 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
That's the one, and it runs at 3500 rpm, it's slower than the original motor. Scroll down that page and read it for yourself. There are, however, 2 different kinds of these motors, the other one is for lower voltage, and will run faster.
And that's about what it runs at 12v, slower than the original motor. I can't explain the discrepancy in the factory info, though.
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camracer 18:54:40 Sun May 15 2011 Offline 3515 posts BBMG LIFE BLASTER +2000 Reply |
No, I was talking about the RS-380PH which is 16400 rpm at 12v.
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DUBB 15:42:31 Sun May 15 2011 Offline 1399 posts BBMG MASTER BLASTER +1000 Reply |
The 380 I'm using now? No way, it's slower than the original motor, it's only 3600rpm @ 12v, so it's 300kv. Slower, but it's happy as a clam at full battery voltage. Got the jumper bypass on my original Sergy board, awaiting the arrival of the new one. Mag runs great, and it's actually quiter. I agree, though, 8000rpm is way too much, that would be twice as fast as the original. If I linked to one that says that, check how high the rated voltage is, 8000rpm @ 24v = 333.3kv, same as 4000rpm @ 12v = 333.33kv, the big difference is that the former CAN take 24v, IF we should so choose, and we won't be pushing it running at 15v, like with the latter.
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