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smwon Offline 5644 posts  Admin Reply |
Today I was reading the the newest blog entry in Whistling Wind farm and her entry was titled "This is unreal!" You'll have to stop over in her blog to read the whole thing, but a partial quote is:
Man that is truly unreal! And it makes my blood boil! This is just part of the reason I have and want to have my own milk animals!
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Rrockhound Offline posts Reply |
Personally I think state laws against selling raw milk to adults are stupid, BUT I think it's not so smart of people to OPENLY try to get around those laws in a public place, and then want sympathy from me when it doesn't work out like they dreamed it would.
Please, be a crusader if you must, be an outlaw if that is your wish, but don't be just a whiner. |
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smwon Offline 5644 posts Admin Reply |
Sorry you jumped to conclusions or misunderstood RH. They weren't doing anything illegal... They didn't buy it in GA, they purchased it in SC. There is no law against bringing it into the state, just purchasing it there, which they didn't do. That is the whole reason it was done that way. If they were deliberately doing something illegal I'm sure they wouldn't be doing it so open. But they believed it was legal and it seems it really is legal.
But I can imagine they will have the law changed or worded differently before long so raw milk can't be transported across state lines either... it really is a shame. Little do they realize that it is the denatured milk product of pasteurization and homogenization that is the cause of most problems people have with milk. Raw milk is not the enemy that they make it out to be.
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Rrockhound Offline posts Reply |
"Sorry you jumped to conclusions or misunderstood RH. " I think I called it right.
Whiners. I hope they win, or get smarter. |
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smwon Offline 5644 posts Admin Reply |
I don't understand why you feel this way RH. However, I put this thread up as a notice to all that these sorta things happen all the time and it has become very hard for us to protect ourselves against the various governments. Not to get into a debate about whether the parties involved are whining.
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smwon Offline 5644 posts Admin Reply |
Myself, AJ, and Jim had a discussion about this and I believe Jim is going to make a post.
I got to thinking about this in another light. In many states, including GA, you are allowed to sell raw milk as animal food. So the only real problem with this was the fact it didn't say "For Animal Consumption Only" on the label. Here is an excerpt from a GA company that sells raw milk...
And here is what the law states for Georgia:
So I suppose if a company wants to sell raw milk to the public, it would have to be licensed for commercial feed manufacture. I know that some states allow milk for animal consumption without any kind of regulation at all. And many people sell this product to customers who know very well that the milk is safe for human consumption and buy it for that purpose regardless what the label says. Be informed! To find the state law for your state go to http://www.realmilk.com/happening.html and scroll down to the list of states.
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Jim_Alaska Offline 118 posts Admin Reply |
My own personal opinion on this subject is from a purely legal standpoint. I know nothing about raw milk as compared to processed milk. Some of you may or may not know that I am a property rights advocate.
I too abhor the unecesary rules and regs coming form governement and agencies. But we are a nation of laws. Without laws, we are in a perpetual state of confusion and live under a system that neither cares for or protects the puiblic. Our laws usually, but not always, reflect the majority opinion of those who care to get involved and speak their mind. In the instance under discussion here, I see a couple of things that I would like to speak to. At some point this legislation came up in state legislature. It was written up, published for public comment so that those who would be affected could have a say in the outcome. As in so many cases, it is evident that those who would be affected were either in the minority, or were not up to speed on what was happening. There are factions within our society who are not above trying to sneak legislation through the process, but our rules governing this sort of thing are supposed to preclude this by the public comment process. If a person did not speak out against this law, then they have no standing to complain after the fact. If they did not know about it, they have no standing because they should have known. No entity is going to feel obligated to take these issues to you who will be affected, it is your duty to keep on top of these political issues. It takes time, but is the only way to keep from being over run. So, what to do once these things are implemented is to simply lobby and work to either overturn the bogus law, or get new legislation that defeats the bogus law. In either instance, you need to be proactive. It is no agency or governments duty protect your rights, it is yours. To try to "get around" existing law is only courting disaster. Work to get it changed.
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smwon Offline 5644 posts Admin Reply |
That was very good Jim. One thing though. Sometimes a person doesn't know of such laws because at the time they were either not interested, to young to know the difference, or they didn't know it would effect them. For instant you didn't know that raw milk was an issue. Perhaps you were a child. Then sometime down the road, say 20 years later, you discovered you need raw milk (this is hypothetical of course). Then you discovered you couldn't buy raw milk. To pay lobbyist to change the situation is way out of your reach, what happens then? I can answer that easily - it's needed so you find loopholes in the law or do it against the law. Like this person was doing who got their milk confiscated, they were trying the loophole which in reality wasn't against the law. But, what happens then? How do you fight something like that? To pay lobbyists takes a lot of money and who pays for it?
The things that are going on with mining are effecting miners and they are donating to pay the lobbyists, some are paying it literally out of their own pocket. What about those that cannot pay? And some are getting tired of the fight and are almost to the point of giving up. I can say it is just mining, let it go. However, it is more than really about mining and so is raw milk more than just about raw milk. It is about our rights.
You know as well I do - yours from experience and mine from your experience - is that a lot of times it makes no difference. They already have their mind set and comments won't make a bit of difference. So really what is the answer? A person or group can sue, but who's going to pay for it? And remember the milk is needed now not years down the road after all the lobbing, suing, commenting, etc. True enough, it will help others later, perhaps even yourself, but it won't help at the moment when it is needed. There have been many babies that are born that can only tolerate raw milk. I had a brother like that. If my mother could not have procured raw milk for him, he more than likely would have died. Those that need it today are denied the right to have it by such laws as GA has. Of course, personally I would find a way and perhaps not the way that was first addressed in this thread. GA does have raw milk sells, just it isn't supposed to be for human consumption. If the dairy is clean and the milk processed in such a way as to produce clean milk, I would buy raw milk "Not For Human Consumption" and forget about it.
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BlossomB Offline 742 posts Admin Reply |
Wow, it is amazing how something that seems so simple can be so complex. I agree with both of you but I am with Jim on this. When I was a bus driver, there were many many rules, regulations, laws, standards, etc. that I was expected to follow. Some of those I really do not have a clue what were but if I broke or violated one, I would be in trouble. To say, "I didn't know" would not change the fact that I did violate it and was due some sort of reprimand, as it were. They called it "should know", or something like that. As far as saying that if you were too young when the legislation was passed to know that it is there isn't going to fly because when you are in a position to actually purchase the milk, you should have the know-how to look up information. And, Mom, when you say that lobbying, suing, etc, isn't going to help you now, you're right, it probably won't. BUT it will help future generations and that should make it worth fighting for as well. Thanks for posting that link to find information in our states! Very helpful.
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smwon Offline 5644 posts Admin Reply |
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say B. The laws now for raw milk not sold in some states have been there for quite some time - some for 20+ years. What I was saying was in relation to what Jim said about the comment period when the law was trying to be passed. "but our rules governing this sort of thing are supposed to preclude this by the public comment process. If a person did not speak out against this law, then they have no standing to complain after the fact. If they did not know about it, they have no standing because they should have known." If you were a child when they past it you couldn't have done anything about it. Now that you need the milk what are you supposed to do? And then I went into the cost of the legal battle and all that.
I did acknowledge that in my post. The BIG thing for me was the stupidity of it all. That the state government could and would regulate it in such a manner that it was being treated as a drug bust or something. It was milk for Pete's sake. I feel they did nothing wrong, and were within the law as it is written, and are being punished for wanting safe raw milk to use for their own consumption... I am very curious to see how this all turns out. I do hope they have some legal defense...
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