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3 people online in the last 15 minutes - 0 members, 0 anon and 3 guests. (Most ever was 96 at 22:05:36 Thu Aug 9 2007) |
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revandbev 10:51:47 Fri Jan 8 2010 Offline 1500 posts Sergeant First Class  Mood Now:  Post Mood: Reply |
If there was ever a "good guy" in modern-day law enforcement, it's Arizona County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. The Arizona Feds have been ordered(by guess who) to investigate him for abuse of power.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582523,00.html To contact the Sheriff's office: http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Contact_Us |
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ChefDoughnut 15:24:00 Tue Feb 16 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
its a shame when we have a great police official who does his job does it well and gets investigated and has a limitation imposed on him for doing the job he was hired to do
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attheready 14:30:45 Wed Feb 17 2010 Offline posts Mood Now:  Post Mood:  Reply |
Good for him for standing up, flipping Political Correctness the bird, and doing the job as it should be done.
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Bywater 17:12:03 Wed Feb 17 2010 Offline posts Reply |
From another thread, but interesting. Joe has a couple things I admire about him, mostly his advanced age and the fact he won't be with us much longer... This man has directed his police force on a unheard of level when it comes to discriminatory harassment, improper stops, searches and arrests when it comes to dealing with Latinos. I am sure this is no surprise to anyone here, but there are a lot of Latinos in Arizona, and a lot of them are even Americans. Detainment, unlawful search and seizure and the like are the rights afforded to us by the constitution, claiming support of them while ignoring there absence in regards to others is poor form. The arrests of Michael Lacy and Jim Larkin were the icing on the cake for me. These two are some left-wing nut reporters who run a paper in Pheonix and Marciopa county. Little left of the KJ, but not much if you get my drift... Anyway, they had been speaking out against him, interviewing Latino businessmen and such, typical reporter crap. And he had them arrested and held them in that circus of a jail he is running. How can anyone who would claim a love for the first amendment respect a man who would piss on it so quickly? They were released as soon a judge read the charges (they never saw trial they were that thin), but still, how is that not intimidation and an abuse of power? And his jail, is a circus. I don't know if its the MSG in me but I cant help but look at what he does and wonder what the hell he is thinking. I am almost convinced at this point it is pure publicity stunts. The tent cities were dangerous, to the inmates and the staff, so I missed out on why they would put them out there. The clothes are irrelevant, the chain gangs (long as they are “safe” I am all over) are all good, but why house them outside in community tents? He trying to recreate the “Farm” or something? Recently his prisoners got tired of eating the brown goop on potatoes he was feeding them, so they had a hunger strike. Its all good, I wouldn't want to eat that **** either. But then Joe has the prison locked down over it? Hunger strikes are considered free speech, so again, to avoid on bad press he will piss on the 1st amendment? Screw that. I will skip over the fact that 70% of the cats in his can have not had trial yet, and may be innocent and just ask if a nations civility is judged by how it cares for its inmates, why does this ass clown keep getting re-elected? I think its the fact that its a county jail that lets him get away with this, in a real prison with more hardened cons this kind of stuff would probably get folks killed. I think part of my disdain stems from two personal-ish dealings with this guy and his department. The first is my family there, my uncle runs/ran a little tile shop and installation service, the boom has taken a lot out of business in the area so he is back to driving truck part time. Anyway, he had several Latinos that work for him, all legal and all making a good wage. As he said, “you can pick up day laborers if you want, but if you are selling a skilled trade you need craftsmen”... Anyway, it was non stop bull**** dealing with the sheriffs, stopping the truck and checking for papers, coming to job sites to check for papers, checkpoints galore, only stopping Latinos... I am the first one to admit there is a problem with illegal immigration that needs to get addressed, but we are America, we can do better than that crap. The second one is because one of my boys got into it with some “Minute men” at a rally in Phoenix a couple years back and ended up sitting in the can for a spell over it when he should not have. When I say my “boy” I mean prior service back in Somalia and we did some stuff in a couple other places after that. Anyway, he is a big no neck Spaniard who I suppose looks Latino “if they all look alike” to you. Anyway he was riding with a patriot group there when some minutemen ass clowns got into it with him over his wife (who is a sister) and the two groups had words. Then later on a few of them had a go with him and a couple of his at a concession stand, it was a short confrontation, even outnumbered they didn't really know what they were getting into and while no one got hurt bad they still only arrested my boy for it. Anyway, these cats were sporting the hair, the boot laces and the 88 ink to the max and they got a pass? If the deputies had arrested everyone or no one I would have been alright with it, crap happens, but when they got cut loose and my boy hits the can? Nah, you can have that, you can have Joe and that whole police department with it. See LEO is like military units to me, one bad example as a leader or one bad apple getting cut slack can and will taint the whole batch regardless of how many good folks are there. They only thing that baffles me more than them not policing their own is how he keeps getting re-elected.
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smurf1369 19:07:30 Wed Feb 17 2010 Offline posts Mood Now:  Post Mood: Reply |
*
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Bywater 20:05:55 Wed Feb 17 2010 Offline posts Reply |
Some of the stuff he has done has been ok. I really dug the fact its the prisoners taking care of the animal shelters and in a lot of cases the "work" they are doing is real work they can use when they finish there stint and at least have an option of something legit before going back to the skill set that landed them there in the first place.
But his pissing on the constitution grates on me, maybe I am just to sensitive towards it, but it irks me.
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smurf1369 23:40:09 Wed Feb 17 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
I'm trying to figure out how going after poor oppressed undocumented guest workers,the majority of whom are from Central and South America,traditionally a latino geographic location,by targeting latinos is somehow unconstituional.Is it unreasonable to ask latinos or latino appearing people,in a predominate area of illegal(ooops,how unpc of me) I mean undocumented guests for ID? Granted under the Libertarian platform of no borders this would be deemed a no-no but since we're not yet a libertarian country so we have to go with what works. Now I am no fan of law enforcement in general,loathe could probably be the word I'd use,but frankly if what Arpaio is doing,pisses off the aclu,keeps a few less "guests" from coming to this country,upsets the feds,and works it sounds good to me.
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Bywater 01:06:47 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Reply |
It is not a matter of political correctness, it is a matter of constitutional rights being afforded to everyone equally. The fourth protects us from unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. If you would make the argument that depriving the 44million Latinos that live in this nation that right because of the 10 million estimated illegal Latinos here is “probable cause” I would point out that that is mighty white of you... The 14th Amendment is icing on the cake that ensured that all citizens be treated equally under the law.
I am a “l”ibertarian with centrist leanings... Or a Centrist with libertarian leanings depending on any given issue. Trying to pin the Libertarians down on the borders is a nightmare, Libertarians by nature disagree on a lot of things amongst themselves anyway. My personal view on immigration is that its all a big fn'joke with a healthy amount of snow job thrown in as insult. People who cry national security are sheep. The terrorists to date have walked right across our borders with passports or visas, so why the hell would they subject themselves to the back of a crowded pickup or the off chance of bumping into checkpoint when they can fly or drive in with legal paper? If Homeland security got it tight enough so that they might have to slip across the border on the sly it would have some weight, but as it is now? Forgive me for not quaking in my boots at the thought of Akhmed walking across the border when he can fly in first class on a student visa or whatever. The whole “they are stealing American jobs” is valid, but I guess I am to critical when I wonder why after all these years nothing has been done about it? Understand, I don't care about the Pedro the lawn guy, Jesus the bean picker, Paco or the day labor or Chiquita the house keeper. Wanting to get out of the 3rd world and work hard doing crap work is commendable in my opinion. However from Virginia south there are a lot of good mill and construction jobs getting taken up by undocumented labor. In most cases the employers are paying them a reduced wage to look the other way when it comes to checking that SSN. When those mills and plants get “raided” and they deport “x” number of Paco's why is it there is no repercussion on the employers for hiring them? While I am trying to figure that out I think about the border and just how easy it would be to close it down with a 10th of the funds they have thrown at Homeland Security. The Feds could buy a 300m stretch all along it, declare it a federal territory and secure it. Israel secures its borders with roughly 1 man per mile, it is just as inhospitable and due to the nature of those they would keep out, probably overkill for what we need... But if we could have secured our border with as little as a couple infantry battalions and some fencing... Why haven't we? The two of these things lead me to the same conclusion. Its broken because of corruption, both parties enjoy the status quo, both parties are in the pocket of lobbyists employed by “interests” who enjoy that cheap labor that they do not have to provide benefits for or pay full wages. It will not change because “We the People...” are such sheep that one flock decry the mistreatment of poor Paco the bean picker into the face of the other flock of sheep that are all over racial profiling and consider Paco the bean picker to be a criminal on par with Akhmed... So while all the sheep are yelling at each other and parroting the lines handed to them the wolves we keep electing to power, regardless of the mascot, are laughing themselves to the bank marveling at how gullible and easily lead “We the people...” have become. Before you scoff, you yourself said that you thought Joe's infringements would keep the "guests" out... Why would it? They get caught and released and come right back. All along the "Right" I hear people parrot that it is effective, baffles me. Its as smart as catching a groundhog in your garden and taking him to the edge of your property and cutting him loose hoping he wont find his way back again... Want to fix illegal immigration? Secure the border. Period. Rounding people up, workers raids, random checkpoints, Green Card Sweeps... All of that is just crap, it's ineffective smoke that does nothing in the big picture one way or the other except provide something for the sheep of either flock to bicker at one another about and distract them from the truth of it.
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smurf1369 01:51:21 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
While I agree with some of what you wrote Bywater,the corruption,the ease of the borders,and especially the groundhog analogy(but I'm sure I agree with that for completely different reasons than you).Personally I would take a groundhog out to the border and cause it to cease to intake valuable oxygen,but you surely didn't mean that did you?
The real reason the US can't control the borders is because both sides of the political scale want the illegals(forgive my derogatory term but in the interest of brevity I will use it)the so called right for the cheap labor,and the left for the political capital.Simplistic answers but the rest is complicated,and frankly boring. As far as libertarian viewpoints I took those that I used from their pamphlets,with their stated positions so I don''t see why you're complaining. I thought we were discussing illegal latinos,not terrorists,but since you bring that into the argument I agree with you on that point as well. I never wrote that Arpaios method kept ALL of the illegals out where you got that is beyond me. I wrote if it kept a few less. Finally to bring in the "minutemen" as nazis?(first response not the above one)I was going to argue the point but since I just watched Potok of the splc say the same thing,as well as calling the Oathkeepers right wing extremist, and the tea party full of white right wing radical bombers, I decided not to bother.It was pretty funny though.
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Bywater 02:40:59 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Reply |
Nah, wouldn't kill the groundhogs... But with nothing to keep them from coming back going through all the trouble to catch them in the first place is a wasted effort.
The Libertarian stance on borders was not complaining, just pointing out that that the LP has been consistently split over the issue of the borders. Hell, I did not even point out that trying to pin the party on a stance that it is not united on is disingenuous and ignorant. For as far as Joe's tactics on deporting I never stated or implied that you were saying it would keep them all out, so I am not sure how you manufactured such a thing out of my statement. Those tactics wont deter anyone, let alone "all". I also didn't say that all the minutemen are Natzi's either. However only a fool would make the statement that none of them are. The ones my boy ran into were, a lot of the leaders are former Stormfront and a lot of the crap they spout is right out of the supremacist playbook. The ones that keep getting arrested for stupid crap down there are long time Aryans as well... Whats that saying about a duck? That is one of the biggest problems I have with the "right wing" movement, the fact that many of them will tolerate racism while professing a love for the constitution and liberty. Its equally hypocritical and baffling to me at the same time. I am not sure who Potok is, so if the reference was a slight I will have to let it go unanswered. But for as far as calling Oath Keepers "radical" well, he is right. We are. Whenever you draw a line in the sand you are a radical, I am comfortable enough with it, some folks... Not so much, but it is the truth. The left wont be able to sling racist line with any credibility thou. Too many brothers in the ranks when coupled with Rhodes and the leadership going off and getting rid of anyone spouting that crap professing to "represent". I have been donating to them and commenting. I am hoping that it gets off the ground up here in Maine as well and am waiting to see how it pans out before giving them more than cash. But on the whole the Oath Keepers are good stuff IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyaxEwOrUyY&feature=player_embedded#
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smurf1369 04:11:21 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Potok is a tool mouthpiece of the splc. Didn't mean it as slight to you,just that he sees nazis and racists behind every tree.Something about a duck.
So it is disingeuous and ignorant to use an organizations own literature to reference their stance? Perhaps the same ignorance that spouts racism about separatists? Damn that duck again. Good luck with the oathkeepers,but as the name implies it seems to involve keeping an oath,soo well good luck with them.
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Bywater 06:19:00 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Reply |
No its either or, it would be ignorant to make a statement with nothing more than a pamphlet to go on or it would be disingeus to know that it was a point of contention in the party and make the statement regardless. Not both. And I can not think of a mainstream separatist movement in this century that has not been racial motivated. Stormfront, Panthers, La Raza... All preaching the same crap just with a different color scheme. By its very definition "separatism" is a split along cultural and racial lines, so I am not sure in what court calling that duck a duck would pass as ignorance in. I know a lot of separatists who will sling the argument that wanting to be separate from others does not make them racists, not wishing to integrate racial and wishing to segregate based on race removes the ability to subjugate other races and thus has no supremacist inclinations... And in some cases that may be true, but I have not met a single one who after a few minutes of conversation or discourse was not an obvious racist.
Heh, you will have to try harder than that.
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colyork  06:53:20 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
Well the illegal problem would be solved if the limp dicks in the government would put a real effort into stopping the illegal scum form getting into our country.But that is not happening,so something needs to done.And if the natural born and naturalized Latinos don't like they way that he dose things,maybe they should work to be part of the solution by turning in the criminals
 And as far as the "tent cities",if our military can live in tents in Iraq than criminals shouldn't any complaints.If they don't like it ,don't be a criminal and they won't end up there.
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Bywater 08:25:59 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Reply |
I can not begin to compare troops bivied in the field to criminals housed that way, that you can make such a comparison baffles me. With few exceptions most servicemen are not know for stabbing each other over smokes or ass raping each other in the shower... The open tent areas are dangerous for the inmates and the staff, you can't turn your prison areas into gladiator pits and such for the fun of it.
For as far as other Latinos turning in other Latinos your re not serious right? You think they have some "illegal alien" radar that when they walk past one another they can tell if they are legit or not? That statement would be pretty funny if I didn't think you were actually serious...
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attheready 14:06:06 Thu Feb 18 2010 Offline posts Mood Now: Post Mood: Reply |
I believe that having jails that are unpleasant to live in, or maybe even unsafe, might deter people (hmmm...if I get busted, I'm gonna be on the chain gang in the hot sun, then Bubba's beotch back in the tent later - that idea SUCKS). I've worked as a corrections officer. My ex's step-father did too. What we saw on a daily basis was a bunch of punks that just needed a good ass-kicking, some completely unrepentant child molesters bragging to the other inmates about me being their body guard, and some rabid dogs that needed to be put down, or at least never see the light of day again. Kids that thought they were tough thugs because they got busted - like it was a statement of manhood - needed a good whooping. A couple even threatened to jump me, but came to their senses when I told them to leap whenever they felt froggy. Let 'em stay in tents. Let 'em sweat. Let 'em eat MRE's, cold sandwiches, or slop every day. My ex's step-father worked in the kitchen preparing those criminals better food than I could afford to feed my family at the time - lobster, steaks, turkey dinners, etc. - AND THEY WOULD BITCH "not steak AGAIN?" Let 'em see what kind of sacrifices our men and women in uniform are making daily for them to act like primates and pissing on the rights of others to live life free from harassment by criminals. Different tent cities with different jobs for each group of people based on the type of sentence, so the pretend criminals get a second chance, the child molesters get gang raped in gen-pop, and the psychopaths clean each other out in the showers. If prison sucked as bad as that instead of just sitting around being bored, watching cable, studying law books and thinking of ways to sue "the man" for putting their ass in jail in the first place, then maybe less people would wanna go? Just a thought. I definitely like the rehabilitation aspects of letting lesser criminals do public service - road crews, pet shelters, etc.
For the part about illegals - ain't nothing that a good electrified fence topped with razor wire, motion-activated LRAD's projecting a warning declaring the authorization to use deadly force in Spanish every hundred yards or so, and a sniper team every 1000 yards wouldn't fix. Give 'em a couple warning shots near their feet to tell them we're serious. I have no problem with immigration - just do it legally, please. Show me that you seriously want to be an American, NOT just a leech on the system. The ones that came over illegally but got a job busting their butts should be among the FIRST ones considered for a green card - they're already demonstrating they're serious about making a better life for themselves and their family, with respecting the awesome priviledge and responsibility of citizenship, and for Pete's sake, start teaching them English, the Constitution, and taxing them like the rest of us!  The others that might not be able to get a job immediately could voluntarily join the military for a 2 or 4 year enlistment to show they're going to be serious about their citizenship, with similar English and Constitutional classes being mandatory. The ones that just want a free ride? Ship their butts back, pronto, after getting a good snapshot and a "never to return" ticket unless the above mentioned criteria are met. Terrorists don't need to sneak across the borders - we give them an open door and a hand shake to come in, as Bywater accurately stated. That's a political issue as much as a security issue. We all know the solution to that - fire-hose enema our government from the top down. Nuff said.
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