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Cracko
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No Sluice Allowed!! ( 23:16:04 SatApr 6 2013 )

Just talked with Siskiyou Game Warden. He says Ignorance will not be an excuse!! If I suck up material then run it through a sluice box later down river or whatever i do it he doesn't care if its 500yards away I will fall under dredging because I used a sluice box as part of the recovery process. He says what we are doing is ok (for now) but I must not have a sluice box anywhere in the vicinity. I suggest to all 9ers to have a blue bowl, magic cube, whatever it takes just do not use a sluice box on land he said I couldn't even use a small recovery stlye sluice box because its still a sluice box and is being used in combination with the suction and the engine. :eeekyellow:

  
colo_nuggets
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 01:09:03 SunApr 7 2013 )

Sluicing is allowed, panning is allowed. Just don't use a sluice with your new piece of mining gear. But if you just want to go use a sluice somewhere and they try that bs of saying its concentrates from a motorized piece of river mining gear PROVE IT!

  
DrLynda
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 01:35:14 SunApr 7 2013 )

We don't even own any suction type equipment. Anything we were to run through a sluice would be dug up with a shovel. How can they say we are using suction with our sluice if we don't have one? That doesn't make ANY sense at all!!!



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Lynda HP, PhD
 
 
Dave_Mack
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 01:46:03 SunApr 7 2013 )

No; he means using a sluice to process materials recovered with a suction system.

I have my doubts there would be a citation if the sluice was used some distance away. But anything is possible. This is a whole new thing.

It is good that we are getting more confirmation that using the underwater sucking machine is alright -- for now.

  
Jim_Alaska
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 02:37:52 SunApr 7 2013 )

Not to be picky, but just wondering what a "Siskiyou Game Warden" is. The only wardens I know of are CDFG wardens.

Regarding the original post that Cracko made, I'll say this once again. In the CDFG regulations, the definition of a suction dredge includes a sluice box, but it also says that you are suction dredging when, "all of the parts of a dredge are working together". So the warden is wrong.

This means that you cannot be cited for "suction dredging" unless you have a sluice box on the dredge.

Now, there is a separate issue that I have addressed before that also has to do with the definition of a suction dredge; listen very carefully (the sarcasm is free of charge) :devil:

The suction dredge moratorium not only bans suction dredging, but also prohibits anyone from having a suction dredge within 100 yards of the river.

Soooo... if you have a sluice box within 100 yards of a dredge, you are in violation of the moratotium. But not for suction dredging, only for having a suction dredge within 100 yards of the river. (Same penalty.)

It doesn't matter what kind of sluice box it is, if it is near the dredge you may get cited. None of this is to say that a warden can't cite you for either one anyway.

Each warden can interpret the regs the way he wants to. He could very well cite you if he is not sure and let the court work it out.

I laid all of this out from the very first post I made regarding this issue. Anyone getting confused about just what is involved needs to read this post very carefully.... then read it again for what it says, not what you think it says.

Nothing that I or anyone else says should be taken to mean that you won't be cited for using a gravel transfer system.

I have always known that I may get cited, because I have no control over what a warden does or thinks.

But I know what the regs say concerning the defintion of a suction dredge. I have the email from CDFG's Mark Stopher that says what I am doing is not a violation of the moratorium. But all of that is moot if a warden decides to cite me and let the court work it out.

I was willing to take the chance I would not be cited, or if I was, that I could win in court, and that folks is the bottom line for this guy. I might also add that I was checked by CDFG when I was using my system, they did not cite me.

I remain convinced that our underwater gravel transfer system is legal. After all, Mark Stopher said publicly that we miners had found a loop hole.

In case anyone missed it. Keep any sluice box far away from any suction dredge. :beatingadeadhorse:

Oh, and lest I forget, get out there and have a good time and get some gold.



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Jim_Alaska
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salmonprospecting
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 02:57:41 SunApr 7 2013 )

Amazing Jim...can't wait to get out there...following the footsteps of a true hero and property rights advocates...I'll be right there by your side...come citation or not.
John B

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 03:53:34 SunApr 7 2013 )

Round and around, Cracko you're beautiful.

If the 3 pieces of a CDFW described dredge are within 100 yards the river...you're toast.

If 1 of the 4 pieces(3=dredge and 1=river) outside the 100 yard confine, and you're good.



  
Jim_Alaska
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 04:31:29 SunApr 7 2013 )

Quote: DrLynda at 01:35:14 Sun Apr 7 2013

We don't even own any suction type equipment. Anything we were to run through a sluice would be dug up with a shovel. How can they say we are using suction with our sluice if we don't have one? That doesn't make ANY sense at all!!!


Hi DrLynda. None of this applies to what you and hubby intend to do. Not to worry, the club has already made providion for your type of mining and all paperwork is in place for you to have a hassle free experience this summer.

See you on the river.



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Jim_Alaska
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Rod_Seiad
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 14:59:32 SunApr 7 2013 )

And another thing Cracko,

Your conversation with the Siskiyou Game Warden(?) resulted in a predictable conclusion.

NO SLUICE ALLOWED!!

That is until you ask him to describe just what a sluice is in terms a judge can comprehend. It's entirely relative. I mean he does not know how to determine what is a sluice.

Your most rewarding conversation might be in person with Dave Mack. He knows what is a sluice.

  
Cracko
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:59:02 SunApr 7 2013 )

Sorry for not being completely clear it was a CDFGame Warden. Sooo just trying to share the info I learned yesterday. Doing my part to protect other miners, my plan was to run the classified material through a sluice box I will now use something else to do that. Thanks Jim and Dave Mack for helping to make this thread more understandable. And yes it is comforting to know what we are doing is legal.:doublethumbsup: Oh Rod, I will not be spending my money to explain to any judge what a sluice box is or do anything that will put my in a position to have to explain and hope no one else will have to do that either.:duck:

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 16:32:53 SunApr 7 2013 )

Good point Cracko, your money.

Surely you understand that the burden of proof is the responsibility of the CDFW individual who cites the alleged criminal. That part is free.

CDFW and the rest of the CA departments of environmentalism don't know a sluice from a cow chip. You don't nor does anyone else need to prove that point. That part is free.

What is not free is freedom. And it's not for sale nor up for purchase to the highest bidder. Money can't buy it.

It's an easy choice between happiness and freedom.

  
Mineral_Estate_Grantee
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 18:40:11 SunApr 7 2013 )

I bring the following links to the for front ( http://bb.bbboy.net/thenew49ers-viewthread?forum=1&thread=1126&postnum=0&highlight=Goodthing ) as an example of may be a better out come if/when there be an encounter. As evidenced, there are those times Knowing the Law and your Rights can and does make a difference. Knowing when and what to speak, and not, can and does make a difference. You can rest assured if an encounter takes place, your words are what ensures you will receive a summons to court and/or possibly your conviction…or not. If no actual crime is/has taken place, Self Incrimination will make a crime. Remember you have the right to remain silent…but doesn’t mean you can’t talk. Just know what to say and not to say. Study the Law (suggest starting with 1866-1872 mining Law) and be prepared.

  
winners58
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 22:01:26 SunApr 7 2013 )

if you just use a bucket scoop you can use a sluice.
an article and photo Here

  
Cracko
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 22:09:11 SunApr 7 2013 )

The encounter I had was actually a positive encounter probably due to my positive attitude. The Game Warden thanked me for being informed. He did go as far to say that they may even check to see if there is a wet sluice box (meaning just used) in peoples camp or rv if that person is also doing underwater mining.:shrug:

  
markB
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 22:28:12 SunApr 7 2013 )

wet sluice box....now that's pretty funny up here in SW Oregon with this weather....dang near everythings wet!!!ha

  
markB
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 22:34:00 SunApr 7 2013 )

I've gotta say that it is kinda like playing Texas-Holdum. The rules are plainly written but alot of bluffing is going on and betting on your hand and wondering what your opponents could possibly have is what it all comes down to.

  
hookturn
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 03:21:16 TueApr 9 2013 )

Uhhhh could we get that one more time.... so I can't use a sluice box?.... right?.... huh?....

sorry couldn't help the facetiousness, my gosh how hard is it to read...

  
phshn4gold
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 17:36:59 TueApr 9 2013 )

HOOKTURN

Sluice is ok to use on its own (PERIOD!!!!!! END OF STORY everybody). Just NOT ok on the new transfer system or on a "classic DREDGE" Keep it at least 100 yards away from your underwater gravel transfer system.

  
JOE_S_INDY
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JUST REMOVE ONE - SUCTION SYSTEM OR SLUICE BOX ( 18:57:00 TueApr 9 2013 )

I really have a hard time understanding why folks can't grasp this simple procedure.

:beatingadeadhorse:

Once again, as Jim outlined it, there are two separate situations here, both involving dredging and which just happen to have the same $ fine. One is dredging, itself, and the other is possessing a dredge within 100 yards of a stream.

The easiest to start with is that there are three, must have, parts required, together,to make a dredge - as defined by CDFG's legal defination. ALL THREE must be together at one time to have a defined "Dredge". Motor, suction system and a sluice box (of any size or type). Remove any one of the three from your posession and it is NOT a dredge.

That is it - simple, easy to understand and no more complicated than that. IF you have all three in your possession - making it a Dredge - and then you have that dredge within 100 yards of a stream you are in violation. Once again, a motor, a suction system and a sluice box of any kind or size that are in your possession within 100 yards of a stream is going to get you in big trouble. Remove one component and you are legal and not in violation.

This technique removes one of those three critical components (a sluice box) from the (used to be) dredge. It is now no longer a dredge. No longer a dredge because it's missing a critical, required part. Without a sluice box the FORMER dredge is now called an Underwater Gravel Transfer Unit. NOT A DREDGE - get it? Don't call it a dredge, don't even describe it as anything other than an Underwater Gravel Transfer Unit.

The Underwater Gravel Transfer Unit is now used to harvest selected streambed material and place that material into a collection container or containers.

Next is the hard part for some to follow.

REMOVE the suction hose system (except the pressure hose) and REMOVE it far from the area. Take it somewhere WELL AWAY from and not in your possession. Get it far away, and then come back with a sluice box, highbanker or any other recovery device of your choosing.

Then, use the engine/pump, pressure hose (only) and your chosen recovery system (like a highbanker or a sluice box) to process, by hand, your containers of stream bed material.

If you can't follow that overly simplified and wordy explanation then please partner up with a buddy who does.

Best of luck, everyone, Go forth and find Gold. :doublethumbsup:

Joe
[2 edits; Last edit by JOE_S_INDY at 22:58:08 Tue Apr 9 2013]



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Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
Cracko
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Re: JUST REMOVE ONE - SUCTION SYSTEM OR SLUICE BOX ( 10:50:23 WedApr 10 2013 )

Hey Joe,


The reason I think why it is hard to understand all of this is because the freedom to mine for gold how, when, where has been compromised. I know when I started 7 years it was some of the best years of my life. Sure I had to follow a few simple rules but for the most part I finally felt what true freedom was. I developed a certain mindset on how I would be successful based on that freedom. Unfortunately now if I want to continue mining I have to accept the terms at hand with the state of California. I have to believe that what I cant do is an opportunity to what I can do better and I believe my new recovery system will actually be better than having a sluice box.

  
JOE_S_INDY
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 12:12:50 WedApr 10 2013 )

"... if I want to continue mining I have to accept the terms at hand with the state of California."

The old "adapt or die" has been the case since the time of the dinosaurs.



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Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
 
 
Cracko
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:51:24 WedApr 10 2013 )

Yeah we gotta " Think Outside The Box " LOL

  
Cracko
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:55:41 WedApr 10 2013 )

Besides isn't it about time to make something to recover gold that has been used for a hundred years. I don't think we can improve the design anymore than it has been and I still lose some amount of gold.:devil:

  
Mineral_Estate_Grantee
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 20:28:04 SatApr 13 2013 )

Quote: Mineral_Estate_Grantee at 18:40:11 Sun Apr 7 2013

I bring the following links to the for front ( http://bb.bbboy.net/thenew49ers-viewthread?forum=1&thread=1126&postnum=0&highlight=Goodthing ) as an example of may be a better out come if/when there be an encounter. As evidenced, there are those times Knowing the Law and your Rights can and does make a difference. Knowing when and what to speak, and not, can and does make a difference. You can rest assured if an encounter takes place, your words are what ensures you will receive a summons to court and/or possibly your conviction…or not. If no actual crime is/has taken place, Self Incrimination will make a crime. Remember you have the right to remain silent…but doesn’t mean you can’t talk. Just know what to say and not to say. Study the Law (suggest starting with 1866-1872 mining Law) and be prepared.


Published on Apr 12, 2013

Eddie is an Air Force veteran that began realizing that the government was lying to the people at virtually every turn. He earnestly begin his research into government rules and statutes in the mid 90's after he witnessed his mother breakdown into tears of hopeless frustration over a property tax bill that threatened to take away her property and home.

Angry at the malicious and callous demeanor of those that supposedly worked for the greater good of the People Eddie began to carefully research and document the relationships between the various statutes and the legislative enactments that created them, especially the "ad valorem" property tax, and eventually the federal income tax. He has since spent the past eleven years researching the various Texas Codes such as the Transportation Code. Much to the dismay of many municipalities, police officers, and prosecutors he has thrown a very large monkey wrench into the gears of their money machine, using their own laws! With Randy Kelton's passed down knowledge about due process and criminal actions Eddie's research has become even more dangerous to them.

Vigorous study and research revealed the truth, most government employees know even less about the language and application of the law than the general public! Angered by the cavalier attitudes of public servants acting as if their ignorance was of no consequence, Eddie sought out other like minded people to exchange ideas and find a remedy, which led him to Rule of Law Radio.

Eddie has now dedicated himself to "fighting the good fight" against the total willful ignorance that consumes our public servants at every level of government, an ignorance in which too many people share by way of an apathetic attitude about our rights and liberties. The biggest problem with being apathetic is that it is a word comprised mostly of the word "pathetic".
http://ruleoflawradio.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B3nok7Cby28

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:48:51 SunApr 14 2013 )

Another good one MEG.

Eddie has now dedicated himself to "fighting the good fight" against the total willful ignorance that consumes our public servants at every level of government, an ignorance in which too many people share by way of an apathetic attitude about our rights and liberties. The biggest problem with being apathetic is that it is a word comprised mostly of the word "pathetic".


Here in Redding the good "fight" seems to be hiding behind some blurred and disolusioned points of view.

1. Men are wearing women's highheels and clothes downtown to support women in need of help.

2. Women are wearing men's work clothes to support the rodeo.

3. Tea partiers are throwing tea into the Sacramento River right on top of Chinook Salmon.

4. Children of children of children are applying for welfare immediately after graduating high school.

5. CA gov refuses to tax indian income.


My good fight is to get out of town, fast.

Once I get my man-cave steup on the Klamath River I'll settle into the real productive attitude of living right and feeling free. I hope my friendly bear neighbors are still accepting to my humble intrusion because, if the bears run me off, I'll quit being a gold prospector.

  
tesoro12
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:21:42 SunApr 21 2013 )

So the way I see it, a Gold Cube would be considered a sluice. Therefore, we could dig and classify streambed material and run through the Cube (using a battery of course) in the water (rather than a tub) as long as there is no suction device involved in the process. Am I correct?:confused:

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 15:32:49 SunApr 21 2013 )

:doublethumbsup: :doublethumbsup: :doublethumbsup:

  
tesoro12
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 23:23:57 SunApr 21 2013 )

Jim this one's for you- please see my post above about using the Gold Cube as a sluice box. Didn't really get a reply from Rod other than thumbs up. Really need to know legal aspects as we are going this weekend and would like not to have to fill a tub and do it in camp. Not on the Kalamath but small stream in Plumas. Please advise.

  
Cracko
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 01:44:02 MonApr 22 2013 )

Trying not to give legal advise is probably the best policy right now. There is so many types of mining equiptment out there for the most part many miners are going to have to design their own system of recovery. There are many posts and information regarding LEGAL mining methods on this forum.:hijacked:

  
LipCa
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Re: No Sluice Allowed!! ( 02:25:17 MonApr 22 2013 )

tesoro12,

This thread is regarding using a sluice to process material AFTER removing the material with a suction device.

What you are describing does not use a suction device so what people on this thread are mentioning does not apply.

I have not heard anywhere that using a sluice(or Gold Cube) by itself was outlawed.



  

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