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dfoley94521
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Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 03:12:53 MonMay 6 2013 )

Hi...I have an idea for a gravel transfer system. It's alot simpler than some other ideas, but I'm afraid it might be too-good-to-be-true. I'd like to hear from other people to see it if I could do this without getting a ticket.
I've got a 4" Keene dredge with the "sluice bucket recovery system" (SBRS). If you don't know what the SBRS is, it's a plastic bucket that attaches to the end of the sluce to make clean-ups easier. My idea is to remove the riffles and matting from my sluice box, so the sluice becomes nothing more than a "metal trough". I would add a metal punch plate over the SBRS bucket. When operating, material would slide down the "metal trough" (what used to be the sluice box, except now there are no riffles, miners moss or rubber matting) and flow over a punch plate where the heavies would drop into the SBRS bucket. The material that did not fall through the punch plate would fall off the end of the "metal trough".

  
rickther
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 03:17:08 MonMay 6 2013 )

that might be pushing it, just my 2 cents worth. :shrug:

  
dfoley94521
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 03:26:59 MonMay 6 2013 )

I agree with you, I probably am pushing it. I'm hoping a sluice box has been defined somewhere in the CDFG rules and regulations. Unfortunately, I've looked but I can't find it. But logically, a sluice box would be described as a trough containing riffles, and possibly miners moss and ribbing to separate and concentrate heavy material like gold. If the riffles have been removed, then it might not meet the definition of a sluice box anymore.
Does anyone know if there is a definition of a sluice box in the CDFG rules and regulations?

  
Dave_Mack
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 03:34:16 MonMay 6 2013 )

The problem is that is a sluice box! Even if you take the riffles out. All you will have is a complete "dredge" without the riffles. We have been telling people to get rid of the sluice. You have to come up with something new.

  
Rich_Krimm
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 05:17:07 MonMay 6 2013 )

California Fish and Wildlife does not have a clear definition for a sluice or sluice box. Absent their definition, you can look up the definition in a dictionary. I have and the definition varies depending on the source, but it appears that a sluice is an 'artificial channel for conducting water'.

The artificial channel that was incorporated into the design of your dredge by Keene is commonly known as a sluice or sluice box, and that term is understood by the manufacturers of mining equipment, dealers and the mining community. The riffles, mats, moss, and carpeting are regarded as components of a sluice box. Just because you remove the components of the sluice box used in a mining process does not allow us the latitude to call it a 'not-a-sluice' or 'not-a-dredge'.

If a warden saw the process you described, my guess is that you would be cited, and your entire dredge would probably be seized as evidence.

[1 edits; Last edit by Rich_Krimm at 05:18:16 Mon May 6 2013]



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Rich Krimm
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Jim_Alaska
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 13:53:07 MonMay 6 2013 )

I tend to agree with Dave and Rich. But aside from that, please understand that there is no way for anyone on a public message forum to be able to tell anyone else that they could do this without getting a ticket.

It is imperative to understand that when it comes down to the miner and the field officer for CDFW, the only thing that matters is what the officer decides to do in any given situation.

The field officer's duty is to enforce the agencies regulations. His decision to cite, or not to cite, in any situation is totally at his discretion. Even if he is unsure, he can, at his discretion, cite you and elect to let the court work it out. This is just the way the system works.

It is exactly like any other situation in any law enforcement situation. The officer is not required to determine guilt or innocence, that is the job of the court.

So asking for definitive answers on a message forum about what an individual can, or cannot do, and if he would be cited is not something that anyone can tell you. After all, what I think as an individual, has no bearing on what a judge may decide.




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Jim_Alaska
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Gold_Nuggets
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 15:34:40 MonMay 6 2013 )

All of the above replies offer excellent advice and answers for your question. Don't give the anti-dredging and anti-mining supporters any ammunition to use in their efforts to totally stop mining in the water. Loose the sluice box, be creative and find some gold. :doublethumbsup:

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 16:07:25 MonMay 6 2013 )

Will this be OK? No. You knew the answer, what's your real question?

I think it goes like this.

New 49rs are about the new as referenced by Dave above.

Rich quotes the best dictionary available.

Jim is doing everything possible to steer us away from that important negative opinion we might regret. The citation.

Lawyerism 101 teaches.....Never ask a question you don't have the answer to. No I'm not labeling you a lawyer, it's just that lawyers are reading every word here and are exploring the argument.

I say, Toss your old illegal words like dredge and sluice box into the coffin and nail the lid shut, bury it and move on.



  
dfoley94521
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 19:15:09 MonMay 6 2013 )

First of all, thank you all for the constructive feedback. You've convinced me, I won't try that idea.
How does this sound, what if I build a box that attaches to the jet flare. The bottom of the box would be a punch plate that would allow the heavies to drop into a five gallon bucket suspended under the punch plate. Two sides of the box (front and back) would be removed to allow the water to flow over the punch plate, and back into the stream. There would be no sluice box here at all. The box, punch plate and five gallon bucket would be suspended from the floats though. I like the idea of keeping the power jet and the jet flare positioned where they would normally go, so they would be supported and function as designed. That is basically why I'm trying to avoid a collection box that sits on the stream bed. Does this raise any concerns, or should I just bite the bullet and put the power jet, jet flair and a collection box on the stream bed?
Once again, thanks for your advice!!!

  
LipCa
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 02:34:34 TueMay 7 2013 )

Sounds to me like your "box" became a "sluice" when you removed the front and back sides.

  
Jersey_Girls
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 21:11:58 TueMay 7 2013 )

Hey DFoley: The main idea is to collect gravel for processing at another location - and keeping the sluice box at home. Keeping it simple is the easiest way to go in my humble opinion.

John Rose had a great idea with the milk crate he used. Along those lines, I constructed a 3/4" PVC frame around a 5 gallon bucket and used foam tubes for the top and bottom bars for padding. We're going to sit our dredge/highbanker hopper on top of the frame and will secure the pump/PVC frame to a 2" dredge (minus sluice box), Will switch out the buckets as they become filled.

We're going to use a 2" x 1.25" suction nozzle to feed the hopper. It's a simple but effective idea but we want to keep it simple and manageable.

We'll start out small and scale up from there.

  
Dave_Mack
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 02:23:44 SatMay 11 2013 )

That second idea sounds like a classification system.

If the idea is to flow material across a screen in order to drop minus-sized material through, that in my opinion would be something entirely different than a "sluice box."

  
klink9
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 04:02:28 SatMay 11 2013 )

I don't know that much about the thing they call a "bazooka", I don't think it has riffles just a gold trap. I am thinking hard on this.
klink

  
Dave_Mack
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Re: Gravel Transfer System - Will this be OK? ( 04:32:13 MonMay 13 2013 )

It is nice to hear from you Klink! Are you going to be around Happy Camp this summer? It is sounding more and more like the good old days!

I'm inclined to agree that the Bazooka does not have any type of conventional sluice recovery. I am aware of several very experienced underwater miners who intend to use them (they might have already started).

I'll begin making more noise about the ongoing legal fund-raiser pretty soon. Good idea that we set something aside to contest things we believe are unreasonable. Though my best guess would be that the State guys are going to do their best to play it straight down the middle.

  

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