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Alsbsee
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How about an underwater hopper? ( 00:49:28 ThuAug 6 2009 )

Suppose you were to attach a high banker hopper to the end of your suction hose and set it up under water in such a way that it could not be used as a suction nozzle. You could then manually dump material into the hopper which is then transported to your floating sluice box. It’s a little more work but at least you could still work your claim. Since you’re no longer dredging you probably don't even need a permit. You could move your high pressure connections to hopper, like the old style nozzles, now your not sucking material up to the sluice you pushing it up. Properly classified and you no longer get rock jams. Is this a suction dredge or not?

Al Sperling

  
rlh1946
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 03:34:12 ThuAug 6 2009 )

yep it is, as you are moving material via a motor & Pump

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 11:43:36 ThuAug 6 2009 )

so do the regulations or the state define a scution dredge?

  
rlh1946
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 14:25:19 ThuAug 6 2009 )

State dept. of fish & game. In Calif, don`t know rules of other states
[1 edits; Last edit by rlh1946 at 14:26:03 Thu Aug 6 2009]

  
kgphoto
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 19:05:43 ThuAug 6 2009 )

rlh1946

I think you may be mistaken. IF I understand correctly, and it is a big if, the OP is planning on making a foot valve out of his suction nozzle and then just shoveling dirt into the hopper, that would be fine. The difficulty will be finding a Ranger with the experience to understand the nuance and recognize that the "dredge" had been so modified.

Just re-read the OP post, and nope I didn't get it right. He isn't making a foot valve. Than being said, I still think he is OK, as he is not vacuuming up dirt, just moving it through a longer "system".

  
rlh1946
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 20:10:13 ThuAug 6 2009 )

maybe ...but

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 23:56:38 ThuAug 6 2009 )

Ok, suction dredges are out. Suction dredges are defined in the regulations as;

“For purposes of these regulations, suction dredging (also called vacuum dredging) is defined as the use of a suction system to remove and return material at the bottom of a stream, river, or lake for the extraction of minerals. Suction dredges may only be used pursuant to the following provisions:” this is what’s banned suction dredges.

All we have to do is develop a new appliance which does not use suction to remove and return material from the river or so it seems. I have some ideas along those lines but as you say it may be difficult to get a DFG guy smart enough to understand what he’s looking at. I may be a sea lawyer here but suppose I processed the material on the river bottom. My hopper idea could be combined with an underwater sluice. Pump water to the hopper and manually load your material. No suction no dredge, no permit.

I'd like to post a few drawings and see what you all think.

Al

  
LuvNuggets
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 10:13:41 FriAug 7 2009 )

Suction Dredging Right?

OK, so I'll convert my dredge to a scoop and bring it up to the screen by hand. No suction....

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 14:33:06 FriAug 7 2009 )

that's my thought

  
scothman
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 16:28:34 FriAug 7 2009 )

I sleep on the idea of the underwater hopper and came up with this idea.
Place the jet with the open end screened at one end of the hose on the other end connect to a hopper or connect the jet to the hopper( this is where it would take a little design work)
on the other end of the hopper run a hose to the flair jet of the sluice box. You would then be pushing not sucking the
gravel.
It would be a lot more work to get the gravel into the hopper but you still could recover the gold from the stream.

  
Norcalgold
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 21:50:33 FriAug 7 2009 )

Its hard enough shoveling on dry land I could not even imagine trying to work a shovel under water with any effectiveness. I did have a buddy that used to pull nuggets by fanning under water in shallow bedrock.

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 23:00:38 FriAug 7 2009 )

Thats sniping, I do that ocassionally. My hopper idea is simply a way to move the overburden away and process it through the sluice. Once you get to bed rock is finding pickers and cleaning cracks is what you do anyway. It will be more work manually loading the hopper. Shovels would be difficult to use so a scoop and bucket would probably be better.

Al

  
riverwatcher
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 03:27:22 SatAug 8 2009 )

this is what I was muddling over .
does this look like it might be possible?
just call it the bug in the ear of those who invent.
might be a bit more work moving the hopper in and out of the water but you dont go for the gold cause its easy.. right? *g*

  
riverwatcher
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 03:32:25 SatAug 8 2009 )

looks like the attachments are to full to upload my
idea design will send a email to any who are interested
to show what I have thought up. CJ

  
bigmanda
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 17:59:58 SatAug 8 2009 )

I have a 3" Gold King HB/Dredge combo, 20' suction hose, 15' foot valve hose. The HB sits on the shore, dumps the tailings on the ground and catches the water into retaining pond. Would this be legal in CA?

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 21:30:10 SatAug 8 2009 )

Should be legal if the suction nozzle is not in the main water course.

  
bigmanda
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 21:46:12 SatAug 8 2009 )

Like doodling? I do that here in AZ.

Thank you

  
scothman
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 23:53:52 SatAug 8 2009 )

CJ:
Please send me what you have as an idea and I will try and sit down and draw out something also. Looks like a good winter project.
Galvin (graham@pacific.net)

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 00:22:02 SunAug 9 2009 )

I'm liking this a whole lot. Lets get inventive.

CJ send my your drawings "sparrow72@charter.net" I've been working on a hopper idea which has a two inch pressure nozzel discharging directly into a four inch drain seperated by approximately four inches. The hopper funnels material into this gap, between drain and nozzel, which is then driven into the four inch drain. I'll send you the drawing to see what you think.

Al Sperling

  
Au_Seeker
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 01:14:12 SunAug 9 2009 )

A lot of people are talking about "booming", wouldn't that be in violation of the moratorium because of the existing rule of not having suction equipment within 100yds of a "closed" stream, now that all of California is "closed" to dredging?

The way the moratorium is worded "prohibits the use of vacuum or other suction dredging equipment for instream mining in any California river, stream or lake", so it should be legal to do "booming", maybe some legal advice would be needed to clarify this.

Skip
[1 edits; Last edit by Au_Seeker at 01:22:19 Sun Aug 9 2009]

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 01:55:41 SunAug 9 2009 )

You may be right about needing clarification. My understanding are that the waters are not closed, there is just a temporary ban on one specific mining practice. I hope to be high banking in Happy Camp in two weeks. At least I will be there to try.

Al

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 02:30:59 SunAug 9 2009 )

This is the business end of my idea. The side would naturally have to be taller and flare such that there is no suction at the top of the device. The gap between the smaller pressure fitting and the larger drain will probably be pretty critical to prevent blow back but I think we can solve this. What ya think?

Al Sperling

  
riverwatcher
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 02:18:24 MonAug 10 2009 )

sent you my simple ideas hope this helps
sent this to Galivin too and yesterday I had sent it to Dave Mac ...I know somewhere somebody will make a better mouse trap *s*

  
klinker
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 23:25:47 MonAug 10 2009 )

Here is my idea, take your 4" dredge and set it up the way you have always set it up, hook all hoses just like you have always done. Now this is new, at the end where you put your jet log you build a BIG and I do mean BIG funnel with one flat side, stick the 4" hose into the small part of the funnel (which is 4 1/8) lay the flat side on the bottom of river or creek and take the hose from the pump and add a nozzel (which is around 3/4") and blow everything into a screen leaveing the big stuff on the side of the funnel and the small stuff up the funnel into the hose and into the dredge box. I use a hose like that to move my taillings when they build up and I can blow them 10' or more so I know I can push everything into the dredge box. By god there is no suction useing this idea.

  
bluebeard
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 17:07:26 WedAug 12 2009 )

I think the idea of any suction device that would bring the slurry up to the surface would probably be verboten. I am thinking about someone creating a mini "dragline" type set up. Maybe have a motor on the raft running either a conveyor belt with scoops on it or maybe just a way to hook plastic buckets to a looped rope. The guy underwater fills up the buckets with the material by hand, it is mechanically taken to the surface and the guy on the surface tilts the bucket into a hopper on the dredge. Not as efficient as the suction dredge, but it may be a way to finish off some of the half finished projects we are all working on this season.

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 23:52:05 WedAug 12 2009 )

Drag lines are out along with wench driven buckets, rakes, or simular devices. Per the dredging regs. Move you pressure hose back to the end of your once suction line and blow your material back up to the surface.

Al

  
bluebeard
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 01:07:40 ThuAug 13 2009 )

My "drag line" idea isn't about using a bucket to scrape the bottom of the river. You would have to load the bucket by hand underwater and the "dragline" would be used to bring the bucket to the surface, kind of like a dumb waiter or an elevator. You are only using the motor to bring the slurry out of the water mechanically, not sucking it.

  
Alsbsee
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Re: How about an underwater hopper? ( 00:49:04 FriAug 14 2009 )

I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work.

  

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