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MojaveJoe
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What about booming? ( 15:39:07 FriAug 7 2009 )

SB670 makes it illegal to "use vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream or lake of this state."

DFG regs define "river, stream or lake" as the body of water at the current water level at the time of dredging."

So if I was booming on a dry gravel bar or high bench, above the water line would it be legal?

"Booming" meaning using a recirculating pool of water I created to suck gold with a dredge pressure nozzle thru a sluice.

Any thoughts on if I could be cited for doing this? :confused:
[1 edits; Last edit by MojaveJoe at 15:40:54 Fri Aug 7 2009]

  
Alsbsee
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Re: What about booming? ( 15:50:50 FriAug 7 2009 )

I saw and eariler post where Dave answered this question. Booming is not affected.

  
MojaveJoe
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Re: What about booming? ( 16:27:15 FriAug 7 2009 )

I hope that is true.

SB670 also states:
"(c) The Legislature finds and declares that this section, as added during the 2009-10 Regular Session, applies solely to vacuum and suction dredging activities conducted for instream mining purposes." (emphasis added on the word "instream")



  
BNUGGET
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Re: What about booming? ( 22:46:14 FriAug 7 2009 )

"Under existing law, it is unlawful to posess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges."

Saw this under definition to SB 670? So does booming in a gravel bar next to a river going to be ok?:confused:

  
Dave_Mack
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Re: What about booming? ( 01:09:59 MonNov 9 2009 )

Yes; but suction devices (called hydraulic elevators) existed about 100 years before modern suction dredges were developed.

Just because it sucks does not make it a dredge.

High-banking equipment was developed to work surface deposits -- outside of the active waterway. It is a matter of the intended use of the gear. If it is intended to excavate outside of the active waterway, than it cannot be called a "dredge" just because some of the components and functions are similar.

It is one thing to have an actual dredge (with floats, etc.) within 100 yards of a waterway. That's a piece of equipment that is intended and designed to excavate within the active waterway. It is quite another to be actively excavating (small-scale) well away from the active waterway with pumping and suction equipment when there is absolutely no intention to use it within the active waterway.

The language talks about "dredging equipment," not suction devices. Our position is going to remain very clear and firm on this.

  
InspectorTom
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Re: What about booming? ( 03:44:44 TueNov 24 2009 )

Although this is not a surprise to me, some of the game wardens and John (I believe) at the Fresno scoping meeting sited this; "Under existing law, it is unlawful to posess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges."
and said "yes, that (booming) is prohibited under SB670." But when other wardens were asked, they indicated we would not get cited for that (using a vacuum or suction dredge within 100 yards blah,blah,)... The questions were asked by two friends of mine. Go figure...Tom

  
BNUGGET
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Re: What about booming? ( 03:09:04 WedNov 25 2009 )

I will have to ask the local jurisdictions opinion on this but if we don't get this resolved by next season I would like to use my dredge to work a dry part of river bed 50' from the active waterway that I can fill with water like a pond and dredge the pond. All water would be contained and I would be out of the active waterway. This is not ideal but would at least get me dredging again.:shrug:

  
socalgold
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Re: What about booming? ( 20:03:46 WedNov 25 2009 )

Mark's email reply:

"The moratorium established by SB 670 does not prohibit any of the activities you mention. Highbanking, power sluicing, booming, gravity dredging and dryland suction dredging may substantially modify the bed, bank or channel of a stream, river or lake, or substantially divert flow from a stream and require notification under section 1602 of the Fish and Game Code. I suggest you coordinate the regional DFG office nearest to where you conduct your activities to make that determination. You can also access our web site http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ for more information on streambed alteration agreements and suction dredging status. It seems unlikely to me that, as I understand it, a PVC suction pipe operated by hand would require a streambed alteration agreement.


Mark Stopher
Environmental Program Manager
California Department of Fish and Game
601 Locust Street
Redding, CA 96001
voice 530.225.2275
fax 530.225.2391
cell 530.945.1344"


What other kind of answer would you expect from one of the guys doing our enviro report?
[1 edits; Last edit by socalgold at 20:05:47 Wed Nov 25 2009]

  
rlh1946
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Re: What about booming? ( 20:57:32 WedNov 25 2009 )

Quote: BNUGGET at 03:09:04 Wed Nov 25 2009

I will have to ask the local jurisdictions opinion on this but if we don't get this resolved by next season I would like to use my dredge to work a dry part of river bed 50' from the active waterway that I can fill with water like a pond and dredge the pond. All water would be contained and I would be out of the active waterway. This is not ideal but would at least get me dredging again.:shrug:

<>
"Under existing law, it is unlawful to posess a vacuum or suction dredge in areas, or in or within 100 yards of waters, that are closed to the use of vacuum or suction dredges."
<>
this is what the powers that want to be are posting.
[1 edits; Last edit by rlh1946 at 20:58:23 Wed Nov 25 2009]



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snakdude
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Re: What about booming? ( 01:42:52 ThuNov 26 2009 )

I think what everyone is confusing, with the SB670 regulations, is that it may be illegal to possess a Suction Dredge within 100 yards of an active waterway or lake, however "booming" does not involve a "suction dredge" but is conducted with a modified Highbanker (no flotation.....no way to use in the active waterway). These machines are specifically designed to be used on "dry" land, however with a little creativity we are able to maximize recovery by "booming" with said Highbanker(Hydrolic mineral elevator ??) still on "dry" land. I don't believe that "introducing" water to a "dry" land area could be considered an ACTIVE waterway in anyones court, I do believe it would be difficult at best to prosecute.... I am not a Judge nor am I an Attorney but next season I will be "booming"!!

  
BNUGGET
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Re: What about booming? ( 16:44:52 ThuNov 26 2009 )

Thanks Snakedude for clarifying what I was trying to say. If I am not in the active waterway, then I should be OK, right? My dredge would be converted to a floating highbanker in a pond for "Booming purposes". Or I would remove the floats if that becomes a problem and build some legs for it. My claims are not big enough for me to be 100yds away from the active waterway so this is my only option.

Also, is there a restriction on hose size to be considered a highbanker? I would like to use my 6" dredge for my "Booming"?

  
snakdude
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Re: What about booming? ( 01:30:20 FriNov 27 2009 )

Dave might be better judge as far as hose size, I am not aware of any restrictions, but I could be wrong. I think if I were to set up my "dredge" on dry land I would deffinately remove the floats and separate the pump from the frame. One of the big differances of a dredge and highbanker is the fact that the pump for a highbanker is located by the water source and pushes the water to the machine unlike a dredge that has the pump located on the frame. I would be somewhat concerned with flooding the hole and recurculating from that location, unless your equipment is setup on legs (as you are considering) then you are just recurculating for your "modified" highbanker. I would still separate the pump....make it appear as little as possible like a dredge.

  
BNUGGET
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Re: What about booming? ( 07:24:42 FriNov 27 2009 )

Thanks for the advice Snakedude, I agree with trying to make it less like a dredge as possible. If anyone that has knowledge of the subject could answer the hose size question that would be great.

  
Tobin1
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Re: What about booming? ( 15:50:52 FriNov 27 2009 )

Booming is such a harse word why can't we just stick to "Surface Mining"

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: What about booming? ( 18:44:07 FriNov 27 2009 )

Tobin I agree, the term "booming" will probably be misunderstood and used as a negative description of "surface mining".

How about a more politically correct term such as "Surface Oxygenator"?

Booming, blasting, dredging, mining, hydrolicking are are terms our adversaries and the unaware will relate to as "wrong for the environment".

  
rlh1946
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Re: What about booming? ( 03:35:08 SatNov 28 2009 )

Back 15 years ago when my family an I where at "Roaring Camp" they did the same thing only they called it a... "Whiz-Bang"



---
proud father of a Army Soldier
"PLP" member
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Why don't anti-gun people have stickers on their windows that say "This is a gun free home"
 
 
Tobin1
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Re: What about booming? ( 13:46:26 TueDec 1 2009 )

Yeah Rod that is exctally it some of the terms used for gold recovery depict old mining practices that lead people to believe that us miners don't care about the enviroment there is definatly a stigma. I think of some bored guy stoned sittting at home watching the news about gold mining, he then gets on the internet pulls up lets say "the 49ers" and sees a picture of "ol Poopy Pants " hydraulicing the mountain side. I Love MY enviroment its half the reason that I mine, being out on the river all day !!!!

  
snakdude
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Re: What about booming? ( 00:45:25 WedDec 2 2009 )

How about simply "wet mining"?

  
Dave_Mack
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Re: What about booming? ( 01:47:24 SunDec 6 2009 )

We use the term "booming" because the term goes all the way back to the 1800's as a historical method of mining that uses diverted water to help loosen and/or excavate gravels. The term is used in historical mining books. It is a long-standing type of mining which has nothing to do with suction dredging within an active waterway. It was in existence long before modern suction dredges were developed. It seems wise to retain a long-standing mining term (rather than make up a new term)which defines the activity in the event that we need to defend it as something completely different than instream dredging.

By the way, the Department of Fish & Game's recent Scoping Document specifically defines suction dredges in terms of use for "instream mining." (Pages 4 and 5 provide historical descriptions defining "dredging" in Section 5653 all the way back in 1961). There is more on page 9 talking about the functions of a "dredge" (sediment is drawn from a river or stream) & also on page 12 (which describes a dredge as floating upon different types of floats).

"Waterway" is further defined in Section 5653.5 as where the waterway exists at the time "dredging" takes place.

The Document clearly states that the moratorium does not apply to high-banking activity.

Therefore, suction devices associated with high-banking gear, which are not intended to be used to excavate within an active waterway cannot be classed as "dredging gear" simply because some of the components are similar to what we use in suction dredging.

I strongly doubt that California will attempt to enforce a prohibition of other types of mining activity which have nothing to do with dredging within an active waterway.

Here is a simple fact of life: If you ask the government for permission, they will always say "No!"

We draw the line here: We are not going to allow them to prohibit high-bank type mining outside the active waterway just because we use similar components that are used with dredges. The moratorium is for mining within the active waterways. That's it!!

As it is clear that our own government is hell bent on putting the country completely out of business, I am wondering when the point will come when we stop asking for permission and begin stocking up on tar and feathers? My guess is that the time is coming soon!

Wow; that almost sounded like Glen Beck!

  
snakdude
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Re: What about booming? ( 00:52:38 MonDec 7 2009 )

Glen Beck or not, that statement has a good ring to it! Thanks for some clarification on this subject,,,again I will be "booming" next season(feel it is more of a heritage now) and I won't be asking for anyone's permission. Thanks again Dave.

  

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