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1955sunliner
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DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 05:07:28 ThuFeb 4 2010 )

I received in the mail today a Department of Fish and Game Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey. This survey is part of the rule making and environmental review process in which the Department is currently engaged. They are sending these to a small smaple for 2008 Suction Dredge Permit Holders. There are 23 questions on the survey plus a space for comments.
Anyone else get one and what are you thoughts about this survey?

Don Espey

  
InspectorTom
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 23:16:41 ThuFeb 4 2010 )

Don,
I have not rec'd one as yet, would love to have one though!!!

T

  
keninla
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 00:33:38 FriFeb 5 2010 )

I just got one in the mail.

My first thought is: I wonder how they are going to try to use this information against us? It is pretty pathetic when you can't bring yourself to believe that the gov. will be fair and open about anything. It may well be that this information will be used appropriately but somehow I have my doubts.

Ken

  
Harley_Kid
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 02:05:51 FriFeb 5 2010 )

I just got my to day, I will fill it out and send it back.
Harley Kid PS did yours have a number in yellow pin at the top, my was 1281 number:shrug:

  
1955sunliner
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 03:33:29 FriFeb 5 2010 )

Yes mine did have a yellow number at the top. It was 441-2

  
scooters
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 04:51:42 FriFeb 5 2010 )

Mine was 0611
Some of the questions asked seem to be leading or there needed an explanation why you answered the way you did. For example, "On average, how hours per day were you in the water operating your suction dredge on your typical trip in California in 2008?"
How can you answer this question without an explanation? My answer would be 6 hours for three days straight and sometimes 8 hours for four days straight and sometimes 2 days off and then 1 on for a total of 5 hours ????? I know, and what is ever typical about dredging?
Shouldn't somebody be advising us how to answer these leading questions so we don't screw up this survey?

  
Gotgold
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 06:59:36 FriFeb 5 2010 )

Quote: scooters at 04:51:42 Fri Feb 5 2010

Mine was 0611
Some of the questions asked seem to be leading or there needed an explanation why you answered the way you did. For example, "On average, how hours per day were you in the water operating your suction dredge on your typical trip in California in 2008?"
How can you answer this question without an explanation? My answer would be 6 hours for three days straight and sometimes 8 hours for four days straight and sometimes 2 days off and then 1 on for a total of 5 hours ????? I know, and what is ever typical about dredging?
Shouldn't somebody be advising us how to answer these leading questions so we don't screw up this survey?

Scooters, I agree with you as to this question being leading, IMHO it appears that they are trying to establish some sort of "baseline" as to the amount of material being moved in the course of a day and then further factor that in with some other "environmental claim" they have on their table.

If anyone can scan the questions and post them to the forum I'll see what I can do to offer my opinions and you guys can go from there with youe answers.

Gary

  
LipCa
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:14:19 FriFeb 5 2010 )


  
keninla
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:27:13 FriFeb 5 2010 )

After thinking about the survey overnight I have decided that I am not going to send it in. I will however use the postage paid envelope to send in a note telling them that the reason for not sending it is that I don't trust them to be fair. I think that they would only use the information selectively to support whatever conclusion that they have already.

In other words: they have a conclusion and now they are looking for any information that supports it.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 17:51:51 FriFeb 5 2010 )

They will use this info to create averages. This is for the Program for applied research and evaluation at Cal State University, Chico.

My guess is that this is the group who will be performing environmental studies for this new EIR.

I would say that if you are selected and received one of these questionnaires, this is your chance to influence the truthfulness of the averages the scientists will use in their studies.

If you don't participate in this EIR when you have a chance, then don't bitch about the outcome.

There are questions that ask if you had a typical season or not.

This is a golden chance for you to make comments to the scientists who will be doing these studies, instead of the scientists only receiving comments and direction supplied by CDF&G. I would not waste that opportunity. My comments will exceed the space they provide. I will add a page or two or three of comments.

Even if you do not answer their questions, please do not waste an opportunity to make comments to these professionals.

Mark
[1 edits; Last edit by UncleMark at 17:53:13 Fri Feb 5 2010]

  
1955sunliner
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 18:03:55 FriFeb 5 2010 )

Mark

Thank you for your insight. This is what I was waiting to hear before I fill the survey out.

Don

  
snakdude
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 02:31:43 SatFeb 6 2010 )

I received a questionare and sent it back already.

I believe (would like to believe at least) that the economic questions pertain to the effects dredgers have on local economies, good when we are there....not so good when we aren't. My comments took this into consideration as I have a concern that a lot of the small businesses we rely on will not be there by the time they complete their reports.

I tried to give reasonable averages for answers. Hopefully our input will be a consideration with the EIR process, we can only hope. This may be your only chance to give any info. that stands a chance at being looked at and considered in the process.

So take the time to think about this before you destroy the survey. Your comments may make some differance, certainly refusing to comment will have an effect!

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 12:48:55 SatFeb 6 2010 )

A serious thought that has not received enough attention is what future use these forms may be used for. These may have been sent out by honest well intentioned collage students trying to answer important questions for this upcoming EIR. However your answer will outlive you in this new connected world. Those answers become public property to be used by anyone in the future for any slanted cause. So since these forms have unique numbers you not only need to worry about your personal liability for the possible hazmat or tax violations you are admitting to. You can now wonder what the other side may use your information for during all future law suits. It is very hard to have faith in the integrity of the system when the other side is still hammering dredges for losing a tiny percent of methyl mercury instead of pointing out that we remove >90%
[1 edits; Last edit by RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM at 12:50:20 Sat Feb 6 2010]

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 21:47:53 SatFeb 6 2010 )

There is no reason to fill in the part about how much gold you recovered. That is none of their business and in no way affects any proposed impacts of dredging. It is even marked optional on their form.

As far as hazmat, I used no mercury and nitric to process and I recovered no mercury in my cons. There is no question that if you answered it here would be evidence that you violated hazmat law. As stated in the question, how much mercury did you recover and remove from streams, this is not illegal.

I agree that this becomes public property, but everything I wrote and continue to write on forums and to other agencies has that same issue. I plan on using this form and it's contents along with other items as proof of my operations when the time comes to sue the state for the taking of my property without due process.

I am not afraid of the legal dredging I have performed in the past or the corrupt nature of our adversaries. I have lived a very public life in support of dredging for over twenty years now and I am not one to hide that fact.

The day may come when this may harm me, Rusty you might be right about that. However, if I don't take a stance in what I believe in and take part in this EIR process, then I would deserve any new restrictions the new EIR may impose upon me.

Mark


  
wampy73
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 04:11:21 SunFeb 7 2010 )

I got mine on Friday. It is for Out Of State Dredgers and has 25 questions on it. Say it has to be returned by Feb. 15, 2010.

  
Harley_Kid
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 01:45:57 MonFeb 8 2010 )

I sent an e-mail to Hobbs and a letter with copies of the letter I received.
Hope he get back to me on what he thought we should do about this.
Harley Kid:shrug: :confused:

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 17:21:50 MonFeb 8 2010 )

Received my survey on Fri 2/5. Filled it out as much as I was comfortable with. Left more than a few questions unanswered. My business nobody else's. Just because up pops a question to me don't mean I am going to answer it. I believe they asked some potentially harmful questions. That yellow serial number on the front page was a poison pill, I cut the paper away before I sealed the return envelope.

Use your good sense, be truthful, and return it in what ever condition you feel is best. To be paranoid and scared of it is ok, just do it anyway. If you don't swing at their pitches you will fail. Never ever give up the fight against your detractors.


  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 08:30:19 SatFeb 13 2010 )

I finished mine and my comments and will mail it today. Today is Saturday. I received a post card from fish and game on Friday reminding me to complete the survey and mail it no later than Saturday.
[1 edits; Last edit by UncleMark at 14:48:14 Sat Feb 13 2010]

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 14:49:53 SatFeb 13 2010 )

Oh,
By the way John, no I did not kiss it and raise it towards the sky. I don't understand your sarcasm.

  
bearkat
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 09:56:52 SunFeb 14 2010 )

I think by sending your own version of a form just enforces their opinion of miners as being reblious and trouble and makes you look like... well u figure it out. :confused:



---
http://mashdetectors.com
http://metaldetectingforumsearch.com
 
 
Jim_Alaska
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 15:37:25 SunFeb 14 2010 )

Rusty, the issue is not methyl mercury, it is elemental mercury. Methyl mercury is only a concern in places like bogs and low oxygen delta areas. The Mercury we may get in to is elemental.



---
Jim_Alaska
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4x4_Mike
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 03:28:25 MonFeb 15 2010 )

I like most of you can think of many ways that this survey can be used against us. But I filled and sent mine in as true as I could. I at least know that my survey is truefull and if they wish to distort it to there advanage then let them live with there deception. I AM TIRED OF ALL OF THE LIES.

  
wampy73
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:53:05 MonFeb 15 2010 )

I did the same. Filled it out the based on my records from my trips to Ca. I did not fill out how much AU I took in but answered all of the other questions. In fact I got a post card from them stating how important that I respond to the survey due to that only a select few. A lot of the questions on my survey was how much money was spent on my trips to CA> since I live out of state. I think that this is very important since one of the arguments against the band was lose of revenue to local business. I donít want them guessing on how much money i spent on my dredging trip , as I am sure they would guess to low. When you drive 2800 miles one way it does cost a lot in fuel to get out to Northern CA.
They had a place for comments and I let them know how much I appreciated them issuing me a dredge permit and then driving 2800 miles, just to be told when i get there the permit is no longer valid and i canít even get my money back.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 20:41:15 MonFeb 15 2010 )

Look guys,
It is just like a bunch of miners to be suspicious, I mean look at what the environmentalists and indians have done to our right to mine with their lawsuits, and even their ability to corrupt and bribe the California politicians into passing AB1032, saved by the Governor, then doing it again with SB670 and even buying off the Gov this time. Sorry if I make this sound offensive to some politician who may read this, but the facts are the facts. You all caved in without any scientific study to back up the hypothesis offered by the opponents of suction dredging. Shame on you all and I hope the voters remember you this nov.

As far as this study and the survey, I agree with 4x4_Mike, we all just need to be truthful and let the rest of them all choke on their deception.

Our fight here is just but one small version of the larger battle our nation is going through.

I am a firm believer that grass roots efforts will turn this whole thing around. We, as a group of individual miners, both through individual effort and club and organizations efforts will prevail in this if we do not give up.

Our rights provided by our Constitution have been trampled upon.

  
Jim_Alaska
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 04:23:11 TueFeb 16 2010 )

We were told at the CDFG PAC meeting last week that the most important part of the survey was the economic impact. They are very interested in this aspect of the survey. They will use all of the information gathered to augment their EIR subjects and will give them a real world look at what they have heard us say. This survey will lend credibility to our comments.



---
James Foley
Property and Mining Rights Advocate
Horse Creek, California
jfoley@sisqtel.net
 
 
scooters
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 15:37:15 TueFeb 16 2010 )

I read all your comments and I am really impressed with some of the things you say, and I was filling out my survey just like the postcard asked me to do. I was looking for advice so I did not answer in a way that would hurt our dredging hopes. There were a couple of questions that were suspicious but I answered them anyway.
I was busy tucking the survey into the envelope when I spotted something. I saw the stamps that came with the original survey envelope. There were 2 stamps out of 3 on the envelope that had INDIAN stamps. Then it hit me !! I had my job taken away from me by LIES and exagerations. Who are these people who are doing the survey? What's with the Indian stamps? No thank you !! No thank you Indian. You stay on your side of the fence and I will stay on mine.
I took the survey out of the envelope and put it into the shredder. Next, I put the envelope into the shredder and finally the post card that reminded to fill out this questionable survey, into the shredder.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:01:35 TueFeb 16 2010 )

Interesting scooter,
My envelope had a printed "no postage necessary" logo, no stamps involved.
As I stated above, I would have never missed an opportunity to make comments directly to the survey takers, bypassing CDF&G.
I also agree with CalGoldDredger, how incompetent can a government agency be when they spend thousands of taxpayer dollars to conduct an economic impact study, as required by the CEQA process, and yet in six pages of paperwork mailed to me by them, they do not even explain that the survey is for an economic study???????
Somebody at CDF&G dropped the ball on this one.

My next question would be this then, if this survey was for an economic impact study, why were there questions about mercury on it???????

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 17:57:21 TueFeb 16 2010 )

calgolddredger-
You are right, that person's survey will probably be used to authenticate recreational dredging. He must be dredging in his backyard swimming pool. His expenses are 30 years behind times.

scooters-
All you accomplished is you wasted 3 expensive stamps. I completely agree that the Indjuns are causing me to hate them and I would if I could correct their attitude toward me. They have never stayed on their side of the fence unless you cause them pain. They have always been sneaky thieves. Nowdays they hire white lawyers to tresspass against us. When was the last time a Karuk told you face to face "NO DREDGING ALLOWED"

However in the name of peace, they must be tolerated and coddled in order for us to raise the next generation of phony injuns.

  
markB
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 18:43:27 TueFeb 16 2010 )

I'm confused. The survey I have is addressed to the California State University, Chico. "No postage necessary". What's with the Stamps thing. Two surveys???
I am taking the path of truth...let the cards fall where they may. I'm not doing anything harmful when dredging, period. This is my chance to help prove this by sending in this survey. At least I'm given an opportunity to do something other than be pissed off and not heard.

  
scooters
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 00:52:15 WedFeb 17 2010 )

The postage was on the envelope that came to me and not the postage free envelope going to these people who have yet to be identified. That was shredded, too.

I do not dislike the Redskins. They are just not telling the complete truth about dredging and are one of the contributors of low Salmon populations. And last is the casino, a large contributor to lawyers fees against our dredging and buying off legislators who pass SB670. Are gambling problems the only thing they can contribute back to society? Please tell me if I am wrong.

  

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