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4x4_Mike
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 01:18:14 WedFeb 17 2010 )

Economic impact? Two years ago I bought a claim on the Middle Yuba. For the last 2 years I have worked on getting into a very rugged area. Rolled my very built up jeep and had to hike out 9 miles till I found help. Bought a polaris ranger, built a bridge over a miners ditch built a path that still puckers your cheeks to be on. Then on july 4 we take in 2 4in dredges set up and we get in 2 weekends of fun before the ban in aug. The counties of both Sierra and Nevada have collected taxes of $250 three times from me. I paid $4,000 for the claim but they taxed it based on $10,000 sounds fair right. I give up Sierra county has made me file and pay tax on the dredge as buiness property.
So I have given up the claim since dredge is the only way to work this claim. I will be taking a loss on this venture due to the ban and will write off every cent I have paid claim, taxes, dredges, polaris, trailer for polaris, gas, meals,and labor cost. They put me out of buisness and I lost about $18,000 because of them so they will lose my taxes. I will continue to support the fight with the tax money I no longer pay. I just wish this was realy about the fish.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 00:47:06 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

Scooters,

I know many Karuks. Do not make the mistake that the actions of a few Indians represents all of them. There are many Karuks who are miners.
Do not let the few who have been misled by environmental extremists and greed taint your view of all of them. That would be bigotry, and is not fair. I can tell you right now, the majority of Karuks do not support the actions of the few who have started this attack against all forest users.

There are many people of Indian heritage who have incredible integrity.

This thread is about the survey. Lets un hijack it and stay on issue. If you wish to discuss our oponents, start a new thread.

Mark
[1 edits; Last edit by UncleMark at 00:49:02 Thu Feb 18 2010]

  
rlh1946
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 02:49:40 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

If there are Karuks miners are they still dredging and did they have to buy a permit???



---
proud father of a Army Soldier
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Why don't anti-gun people have stickers on their windows that say "This is a gun free home"
 
 
rlh1946
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 04:25:54 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

and dose the dredge ban apply to them:confused:
[1 edits; Last edit by rlh1946 at 04:26:42 Thu Feb 18 2010]



---
proud father of a Army Soldier
"PLP" member
"NRA" member
"UFC" fan
Why don't anti-gun people have stickers on their windows that say "This is a gun free home"
 
 
Rod_Seiad
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:30:03 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

Guys please.

The real fish killers also known as injuns net salmon and sell them to us. Just last year we tried to get CDFG to take a look at them. Do you remember?

Why would they need a dredge permit?


  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 18:18:34 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

Rod, there are many "white men" that fish and kill salmon also. Quit bashing an ethnic group in its entirety, that is bigotry and is against the rules of this forum. If you do not understand how the few corrupt members of the Karuk tribe that oppose dredging are being manipulated by environmental extremist groups controlled by mostly white people, you do not understand this issue.

I am sure that an Indian operating a dredge on a recognized Indian reservation would probably be exempt from having to have an operators permit, but don't quote me on that.

However, remember that the Karuks do not have a recognized reservation, and the Karuks I know that dredge on their own claims or club claims do in fact purchase nozzle operator permits from CDF&G and are not able to dredge right now like the rest of us.

Once again, this post was about the dredge survey from CDF&G, not our opponents.

Mark
[1 edits; Last edit by UncleMark at 18:29:15 Thu Feb 18 2010]

  
socalgold
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 21:59:47 ThuFeb 18 2010 )

Indian lands are soveriegn lands and not subject to state or federal laws or regulations, Only answer to tribal council. Don't know as how that pertains to waters flowing through it. I imagine as a whole, nope, I'm not even going to speculate
Mark is correct in that the Karuks are not a federally recognized tribe the last I heard, and have no treaty or reservation but some are living on federal lands in trust. Most have purchased the homes they live in, and pay the same taxes that we all do all the way down the line. As a whole, the Karuks do not believe as Tucker and Hillman profess. Most of them just want to work, and raise their family's the same as us, and they have that right. They earned it the hard way, not given to them.
But this thread is not about the indians themselves, but rather, what a few that say they represent the whole are saying and doing.
[1 edits; Last edit by socalgold at 22:08:43 Thu Feb 18 2010]

  
scooters
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 03:50:16 FriFeb 19 2010 )

It wasn't a few years ago when AB1032 was thrown at us and a bunch miners on this site were bashing the Karuk for what they did. I made a post and said that most Karuks are nice people, giving an example of meeting some that were working an 8" on the upper claims, and it was the leadership that was misguided.

WOW, was I ever lambasted. They sure disagreed with me. Hey John, they may have even called me a " bad apple that spoils the bunch". Here I was defending the ordinary Karuk and what I should have been doing was talking about the leadership. My mistake.

I even witnessed a Karuk talk during the SB670 Senate Hearing. This was one of the Karuks that is trying to change the leadership for their tribe. Was anybody else there? Were you there to witness this Karuk, that Dave brought to the Senate hearings, to speak against SB 670? Were you there Uncle Mark?

This has everything to do with survey because the Karuk Indian leadership were the ones that started this mess and I found suspicion in the survey, enough to question it and ask for help until I saw those stamps. Then all the lies and exagerations from the Karuk leadership made me shred the survey.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 05:48:41 FriFeb 19 2010 )

No Scooters, I was not at the Senate hearing for SB-670, I was sitting at my desk working in Phoenix Az. listening to it live via the internet. Mr Wadell had many interesting things to say. I could not make it to all the different hearings, but I did write and mail 8 page letters to all the members of the senate.

  
old_gold_miner
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 10:55:49 FriFeb 19 2010 )


BECAUSE;

1. SB 670 effects an unconstitutional taking of my private property rights.

2. SB 670 contains no provision for refund of my canceled permit fees.

3. The CEQA process SB 670 mandates is certainly legally flawed from the onset.

Upon receipt of:

1. A permit fee refund.

2. The substantial financial loss SB 670 caused me.

3. Your legal authority to perform this survey.

I may consider participation.

Sincerely, _______________________________
:confused:

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 18:06:58 FriFeb 19 2010 )

"Rod, there are many "white men" that fish and kill salmon also......you do not understand". UncleMark in Phoenix, AZ

White men do not kill 100 salmon and then let them rot in the hot summer sun in the back of a pickup truck all the while hoping somebody will give them $20 for a fish that should have been allowed to live and reproduce.

I live along this Klamath River, I have been here since I was 5 years old. I UNDERSTAND. Do not label me a biggot. I am a product of this battleground environment. I am an Indian Fighter. I attended public schools with these injuns starting first grade through college. My 3 children same. I know by any reasonable standard what is really on the injuns agenda.

I intend to dredge again this season as normal and will be spared the illegal requirement of a $47 CDFG permit. They are not for sale but the gold is in the river. Karuks and CDFG will fight it out, just stop playing games with me.


The issue is the Karuk people not being responsible for their actions. They think if they treat us whites mean enough we will go away. Pretty unrealistic don't you think?

  
old_gold_miner
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 19:18:53 FriFeb 19 2010 )

Karuk Tribe does not have a federally-recognized or protected fishing right on the Klamath River. This fact was confirmed by the Associate Solicitor for Indian Affairs in a 1994 memorandum. The Associate Solicitor concluded that there was "no evidence that the Karuk's fishery is conducted pursuant to federally reserved Indian fishing rights." Memorandum from Michael J. Anderson to Bill Shake, Fish and Wildlife Service, March 7, 1994. The Associate Solicitor's review found no treaties, federal statutes or executive orders that would form the basis for a claim that the Karuk Tribe's fishery is based on federally-reserved rights, nor was any evidence found of an "historic reservation or trust lands set aside for fishery purposes." Land purchased and put into trust at Ishi Pishi does not qualify as establishment of reserved fishing rights.

CA DFG CODE SECTION 7145-7155

7155. Notwithstanding any other provision of this code, California
Indians who are bona fide registered members of the Yurok Indian
Tribe may take fish, for subsistence purposes only, from the Klamath
River between the mouth of that river and the junction of Tectah
Creek with it, exclusive of tributaries, without regard to seasons,
under the following conditions:

(a) Upon application therefor, the department shall issue to any
Yurok Indian who is listed on the register of the Yurok Tribal
Organization, as furnished to the department, a renewable,
nontransferable permit to take fish pursuant to this section for a
period of one calendar year. Any Indian of the Yurok tribe while
taking fish pursuant to this section shall have upon his person such
valid permit, and shall display it upon the request of any duly
authorized officer.

(b) Hand dip nets, and hook and line only may be used for taking
fish pursuant to this section.

(c) Pursuant to this section not more than three trout or salmon
or combination thereof, or more than one sturgeon, may be taken in
any one day. There is no bag limit on any other fish.

(d) No Yurok Indian while fishing pursuant to this section may be
accompanied by any person who does not possess a valid permit as
prescribed by this section. It is unlawful for any person who does
not hold such permit to accompany any Yurok Indian who is taking fish
pursuant to this section.

(e) The sale of any fish taken under the provisions of this
section shall constitute cause for permanent revocation by the
commission of the permit held by the person making the sale.


  
scooters
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 17:43:51 SatFeb 20 2010 )

All this talk about this survey and me admitting that I shredded the survey - well, they sent me another !! I will fill out this survey, to the best of my ability, and send it back to them in their "No Postage Necessary" envelope.

  
UncleMark
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 19:42:57 SunFeb 21 2010 )

Scooters,
I filled out my first one and sent it in and I received another one yesterday also. I removed the control number on the top of my survey. If I cannot send it in anonymously, after being randomly chosen, then they won't get one from me. I will send this one back blank telling them as much, instead of filling out two.

Rod, I know who our opponents are, but it is not every Indian. It is not right to say that the Indians not being responsible for their actions is the cause of this issue. There are many other issues involved.

I have no quarrel with you, my only issue is when anyone tries to blame an entire group for the actions of a few. Those people who are in positions of power and give in to greed and corruption many times are beyond the effective control of those who oppose them, even when they are elected.

Mark

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 03:37:36 MonFeb 22 2010 )

Received my second dredge survey Fri 2/19.

I am at a complete loss as to what is up on this thing.


UncleMark-
I am on the warpath with only my local Karuks. They have caused a great deal of pain and suffering for ALL dredgers in CA. They are the aggressor in this battle. You cannot shift the blame onto some other entity. This fight has to run it's full course. I will keep thumping on them until they retract their lawsuit against us. They have called in the lawyers and judges too many times. It has to be ended.

  
rlh1946
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 22:30:33 TueFeb 23 2010 )

I got a 2nd one today sent it back with a no thanks



---
proud father of a Army Soldier
"PLP" member
"NRA" member
"UFC" fan
Why don't anti-gun people have stickers on their windows that say "This is a gun free home"
 
 
keninla
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 15:46:27 WedFeb 24 2010 )

Interesting -

I even got a phone call politely requesting that I send in the survey. I sent the second one in with several areas left blank.


  
rlh1946
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 16:10:26 WedFeb 24 2010 )

Ken who was the caller, was it from Chico college??



---
proud father of a Army Soldier
"PLP" member
"NRA" member
"UFC" fan
Why don't anti-gun people have stickers on their windows that say "This is a gun free home"
 
 
InspectorTom
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315 posts
Me &amp; Tank Klamath 200
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 22:26:40 ThuFeb 25 2010 )

And I still have not received ONE! If they are really not getting enough feed-back, Why would they keep sending the surveys to people who did not respond (to their liking)???
:duuh:
It's like standing at some one's door, repeatedly pushing the door bell when you know nobody's home!:devil:

  
keninla
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 00:19:37 FriFeb 26 2010 )

Quote: rlh1946 at 16:10:26 Wed Feb 24 2010

Ken who was the caller, was it from Chico college??


yep,

A young woman (forgot her name) from the university.

Ken

  
Harley_Kid
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Re: DFG Suction Dredge Permit Holders Survey ( 17:05:37 FriFeb 26 2010 )

I resaved my second survey to fill out and a phone call too.
Harley Kid :confused:

  

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