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jmaxwell11
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clairification/booming ( 22:59:11 FriAug 27 2010 )

Can I highbank/boom:shrug: in a creek bed with my pump on the bank and my creek material going back into the creek.:shrug:

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: clairification/booming ( 01:24:39 SatAug 28 2010 )

What you described is just a modified form of dredging. If you are sucking up the creek bottom and sending it through a sluice I think most anyone would call that dredging.SB 670 made all types of dredging against the law in Ca.

  
UncleMark
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Re: clairification/booming ( 09:20:25 SatAug 28 2010 )

You did not give enough info to answer your question.

Are you highbanking/booming outside of the current flowing water?

Are you pumping water from that creek?

Do you mean letting your muddy water re enter the flowing creek before it settles?

Is there water flowing in this creek?

Mark

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: clairification/booming ( 16:17:47 SatAug 28 2010 )

jmaxwell,

On this forum, if you ask a silly and nondescript question, expect to get taken to task for it.

If you can bother to ask the question properly, folks here will answer in a helpful manner.

Word games concerning dredging, booming, or any gold prospecting method is a hot topic and tempers are short.

Think before you ask, please.

Rod

  
jmaxwell11
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Re: clairification/booming ( 18:33:28 SatAug 28 2010 )

MR SEIAD, Everyone is not a hot shot prospecter like you.If I knew the answer to the question I would not asked it wrong. All you guys that know all the answers do not realize that a lot of us do not. And it is people like you that keep us off of the forum. I'm sorry if my ignorance affended enyone else.

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: clairification/booming ( 19:15:51 SatAug 28 2010 )

Jim, If you will stop by the office I think they can explain it best. My answer was based on the way you asked your question. Bottom line at this time no one knows exactly what the fish and game are going to do. Even they seem confused as to how they will enforce the sb 670 themselves. It appears at this time the local officer doesn't like booming, power sluicing or anything that even remotely resembles the use of dredge parts anywhere near the river. There has not been any citations issued that I am aware of but he has personally warned several miners that he feels booming is breaking the law. So today in this area I would say any use of a suction hose,even well up on the bank will probably be frowned on by our local officer. Where that will get you a citation or not is your best guess.

  
LipCa
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Re: clairification/booming ( 20:04:31 SatAug 28 2010 )

The way I read your question is that you want to use your suction nozzle from your highbanker in the creek with your pump being on the bank??
And, either your highbanker is in the creek or on the bank with the material running back into the creek?

Sounds like dredging to me?

  
UncleMark
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Re: clairification/booming ( 16:10:23 SunAug 29 2010 )

jmaxwell11,

You in no way offended me. I totally understand how someone can have difficulty phrasing a question about a subject they are not familiar with so they can get a clear answer. In my world, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

I asked the questions I did so that I might be able to answer your question. There are many ways to mine and use mining equipment, and I have had some pretty bad misunderstandings because of assumptions made about a broadly worded question instead of asking for clarifications first.

I am not interested in the word games issues because of fish and game, but rather I need to know exactly what you are doing in order to be able to answer your question.

If Rusty's offer to help won't work because you are not in or near Happy Camp, I'll make this offer.

I am located in Arizona, and would be willing to talk to you on my dime. Private message me by clicking on my highlighted name located on the upper left side of this reply, "UncleMark", and when my profile opens up, click on my highlighted name one more time and it will open a window so you can send me a private message. Include your phone number and a good time to call and I can answer your question within a few minutes.

Miners helping miners is the motto of this club, and I am a firm believer in that motto.

I am always willing to help a fellow prospector/miner gain knowledge or to try and help solve a problem.

Mark
[2 edits; Last edit by UncleMark at 16:18:08 Sun Aug 29 2010]

  
ochawk
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Re: clairification/booming ( 17:50:22 SunAug 29 2010 )

This is a question for Rusty. First off, glad you are back from Alaska, safe and sound buddy. Now, in your reply to the first question you said that it is against the LAW. As far as I can figure, there is a moratorium against dredging in California, not a law. Is there a difference or do they both mean the same thing? I think this needs clarification, don't you?? :shrug: :confused: Mike

  
LipCa
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Re: clairification/booming ( 19:10:45 SunAug 29 2010 )

If you can get a citation for it, one would think it would be "against the law"?

  
jmaxwell11
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Re: clairification/booming ( 20:04:44 SunAug 29 2010 )

I with draw my question. So everyone can move on. I will keep using my highbanker in the regular manner. Thanks Rusty for the answer as it told me what I needed to know.

  
UncleMark
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Re: clairification/booming ( 21:14:54 SunAug 29 2010 )

Senate bill 670, (SB670) was passed by the senate, then the legislature, then signed by the governor. It is a law.

That law prohibits operating vacuum or suction dredging equipment in any waters of the state of California until California Fish & Game completes an updated Environmental Impact Report (EIR) as ordered by the court in the case of Karuk Tribe of California et al. v. California Department of Fish and Game et al., Alameda County Superior Court Case No. RG 05211597, and implements any new regulations adopted as required by that study.

The following is direct from California Fish & Game Code;

Cal. Fish & Game Code §5653.
(a)The use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment by any person in any river, stream, or lake of this state is prohibited, except as authorized under a permit issued to that person by the department in compliance with the regulations adopted pursuant to Section 5653.9. Before any person uses any vacuum or suction dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state, that person shall submit an application for a permit for a vacuum or suction dredge to the department, specifying the type and size of equipment to be used and other information as the department may require.

Cal. Fish & Game Code §5653.5.
For purposes of Section 5653, “river, stream, or lake” means the body of water at the current water level at the time of the dredging.

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: clairification/booming ( 01:37:50 MonAug 30 2010 )

OK, OK, But-

There are a lot of us folks who believe that "an unjust law is not a true law at all."

For example, the natural law is what governs morality,
conscience, and "good". Manmade law is the opposite, it allows man to exist outside of natural law and thereby create law to threaten or use as a weapon. Manmade law is the result of public opinion and serves those who wish to dominate other members of society without any regard for justice.

Rod

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: clairification/booming ( 05:52:50 MonAug 30 2010 )

I agree Rod! SB 670 was wrong in so many ways I lose count. We are stuck with an illegal president, crooked legal system, and enforcement officers that make up their own rules as they go. I think most of us are fairly aware of how serious the problem is getting. If you ignore the bad laws you will eventually end up facing an enforcement officer. The big question is what do you do then? Stand up for your rights and resist or just go to directly to jail? Without strong support you will either end up shot or jailed, there is no middle ground! Individually and even in small numbers we are nothing against the amassed power of the green politics. We need the combined power of thousands of unhappy Americans following a strong leader before we have a chance. I still haven' seen that type of leader stepping up.
[1 edits; Last edit by RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM at 05:54:02 Mon Aug 30 2010]

  
Rod_Seiad
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Re: clairification/booming ( 15:31:28 MonAug 30 2010 )

Find yourself a hole in the wall type of hideout away from as much of society as possible.

Keep yourself and your tools sharp and diligent. Network with folks you trust and can be relied upon to defend the fort. Prepare for the upcoming revolution as best you can.

Never give up.

Rod

  
UncleMark
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Re: clairification/booming ( 17:26:48 MonAug 30 2010 )

I agree with both of you that our country is facing many serious problems right now and the future of our country as we knew it is questionable.

I also agree that SB670 is an unjust law. There were never any unbiased scientific studies performed to justify the stance the California legislature took in passing this 100% politically motivated piece of garbage legislation.

However, it is the current law in California, and as Rusty wrote, if you choose not to follow it, you will meet an enforcement officer and end up cited or in jail, and possibly have all your equipment and motor vehicle impounded.

Because our corrupt court system has refused to uphold the law in this case, SB670 has not been overturned, and at the rate that legal cases proceed, I personally don't believe that there will be a favorable ruling issued before CDF&G completes this EIR.

It is sad, but we all saw this over regulation coming many years ago. It started back in the early 90's and has slowly gained speed. Personally, I believe that any way of life that allows you to create an income off the land outside of what our current society calls normal, is soon to be a thing of the past.

Dredging is being hounded on by do gooders and flea huggers that couldn't survive on their own in mother nature if their lives depended on it. They don't understand nature, they just pretend to and claim they care for it. Those do gooders are being used and funded by people who have an agenda to take away our freedoms and make us all slaves to their central banks, corporations, and taxes.

I personally wonder just how many liberal environmentalists understand they are just being used as a pawn in a game that is being played by the very people that they falsely believe they are harming?

One day soon, maybe they will wake up and understand the only thing they are doing is taking away our freedoms and helping the bankers and corporate thugs of the world. One can hope, but personally I believe that because all these liberal environmentalists have been brainwashed from a very early age, they will never admit they are wrong because to do so would mean they would have to admit to themselves that they have been used their whole lives and everything they believe in is a sham.

The corporate world has not stopped or slowed down one single bit with all this environmentalism. It just moves around and pollutes else where. Now the corporate world is based in China, land of the cheapest labor in the world.

The unions support Democrats, but it was Bill Clinton who gave China free trade status and let all our manufacturing blue collar jobs leave this country. Go figure. The majority of Americans do not have the ability to think for themselves.

In America, we have a show called survivor, where a couple dozen of our white collar college educated liberals try to survive in a remote place on this planet. They fail, argue, fight, and act like idiot children. You could go to any corner in any third world country, pick up a couple of dozen locals, put them in the same situation, and they would call it a vacation. Three generations ago in America, our elders also would have had no trouble surviving in this fake game show. But today, the college educated liberals who believe they know what needs to be changed to make this country better can't even start a fire on their own.

Some people will just never understand that our founding fathers created a country to get away from exactly what we have in America today.

  
aunuts
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Re: clairification/booming ( 22:58:25 MonAug 30 2010 )

What Mark said.

  
markB
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Re: clairification/booming ( 05:48:16 TueSep 21 2010 )

What's the latest on that "no suction nozzle within 100 yards of a waterway" thing???

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: clairification/booming ( 00:39:16 WedSep 22 2010 )

I live in Happy Camp and haven't heard anything new. As far as I can tell no citations have been given out in the North end of the state so far. It seems to be up to the individual ranger how he enforces it. One in particular up this way seems to go out of his way to warn everyone of a violation and has threatened a ticket if they continue.

  
BillLamica
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Re: clairification/booming ( 15:38:47 TueSep 28 2010 )

Does this particular ranger who has his own idea of how the law is interpreted have a name and what guard station is his base?
Bill

  
RUSTY_HAPPY_CAM
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Re: clairification/booming ( 22:10:38 ThuSep 30 2010 )

Bill, it doesn't seem to be one person that is the problem as much as the system. There is no one clear answer pertaining to this problem. Dave received a statement from the main office of F&G early on that SEEMED to approve of the clubs booming approach. However if you read it carefully you notice it leaves a lot to the individual officers judgment. The unsubstantiated reports I have heard have some officers in the Eureka area saying that even normal highbanking is against the law. In my area the Scott river officer says no booming is allowed. Other areas seem to be unchanged in the way the officers are enforcing 670.

  

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