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Since presidential politics are about the only thing on the television news channels these days, it is likely that most of us have formed some early opinions about the candidates. This upcoming election will have a pivotal impact upon our industry, and upon the future of America. Because it is so important, it might be interesting for us to have a spirited discussion about the candidates. Why not?
When I say "spirited," I mean discussion which can lead to better understanding of the issues and solutions that we all face. I do not mean name calling, profanity, or any discussion that could be regarded as threatening or dangerous by the authorities. I will ask our moderators to immediately remove any distasteful dialog from the discussion, so perhaps the rest of us can exchange information and ideas about likely the most important political event of our time (or at least for the next 5 years).
To get things started, I will voice an opinion: What happened to Ron Paul?
I have been following Ron Paul for nearly 20 years. This is a candidate who clearly believes the country ought to return to its constitutional fundamentals and get the federal government out of every aspect of the peoples' business. He has been on this platform since before he was elected to Congress in the 90's Or was it the 80's?
That's why I was so surprised to see him getting so much television coverage up until about 2 weeks ago!
Here is an interesting one: During the last several weeks, I have driven thousands of miles across northern California and southern Oregon. I can tell you without exaggeration, that I see Ron Paul signs up everywhere, posted on private property and in front of businesses. So far, I have not seen a single sign up for any of the other candidates. Nothing!
While I have not been real impressed with Ron's performance in the national debates (he does a heck of a lot better than I could do under those circumstances), I ran across him on C-Span giving a talk in front of his supporters after one of the recent primaries (just before he was eliminated from TV), and the guy is an incredible motivational speaker when the circumstances are right.
In listening to the solutions being put forward by all of the main candidates of the day, Ron Paul is the only one who is truly proposing to roll back the power of our federal government. He is the only one who is saying that most of the serious problems facing our country today are a result of government. How can more government solutions fix these problems?
In one form or another, each of the other main candidates are proposing that they can bring about more government solutions to our problems. The Democrats are encouraging a more-accelerated dive into socialism, such as heath care for everyone. Hillary and John Edwards would make it a criminal penalty for anyone to not have a health care plan! The Democratic-controlled Senate approved social security benefits for 12 million illegal aliens a few weeks ago. Talking about selling out America! Both Obama and Hillary voted in favor of this.
But it's important to note that Republican forerunner John McCain also voted in favor of giving social security benefits to illegal aliens!
Where is the national press?
I had an interesting discussion with a close friend the other day who voiced that he was fed up with all the socialism-solutions being forced upon us by our present leadership. We were talking about how America is sliding into a black hole while other countries like China are building up into world powers. What happened to us?
The average worker in China earns less than a dollar a day. He is not protected by any environmental or other social safety net. We import those products duty-free into America to compete with what we produce here.
How can America compete with China and India when we use every reason we can think of (under the environmental flag) to prevent or delay protective activity, when we enforce an extensive social safety net upon our own workers (upon pain of criminal penalties), and when 25% of America's gross domestic product is the result of money that is being loaned to us by other countries?
We are borrowing a billion dollars every day to fight 2 wars on the opposite side of the planet. (This is not a discussion about the war; it is a discussion about our existing government bankrupting our country.) Present and future American workers will be buried with this debt. How can we compete? My friend and I were watching Ron Paul signs popping up along the road as we were having this discussion.
Then my friend told me that he does (did) agree with universal heath care. "Everyone in America deserves free heath care," he told me. That's what started the debate!
Here is my opinion: When our federal government mandates (upon criminal penalty) that American workers must carry the burden of heath care for every other person within America (including people who are here illegally), America is not a free country anymore!
There is a difference between what we all would like to have, and what we actually have coming to us under the fundamental rights of man. This comes down to basic property rights. What's yours is yours, and what's mine is mine. Right? That's not true anymore if our government can come in and take what I have worked for and give it to someone else!
Yes; I know the government is already doing this under other programs, and has been doing it for a very long time. This is why I believe we need to elect a new leader who wants to roll all those socialistic problems back!
We are having a discussion about the basic function of government. In my mind, the government's is supposed to protect my stuff from others who would take it away if they could. Somewhere along the line, the government has changed into a force that believes it should take what is mine and give it to others who they believe deserve it more than me (even though I am the one who created it). As well-meaning as the impulses may (or may not) be behind this, I believe that redistribution of property is contrary to the basic principles which made America great in the first place.
Getting back to the basic principles is the only thing that will make us great again. As far as I can tell, Ron Paul is the only candidate who has maintained this platform during his entire political career. For those of you who have not taken a hard look at his ideas, they can be found at http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
I doubt many people on this forum would argue that the solutions being put forward by the Democrats would accelerate this country into socialism and complete disaster. As best I can tell, the other Republican candidates, for the most part, are urging the country into more government control over our lives -- just at a slower pace than the Democrats.
In seeing the Ron Paul signs up all over northern California and Southern Oregon, and watching the ever-increasing support that he is getting at the grass roots level, we should all be asking ourselves why he has pretty-much been removed from the national news networks. What's up with that? Here is one interesting commentary about it: http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan29.htm
If Ron Paul is the only candidate who will implement the painful solutions that will reverse America’s ever-increasing slide into socialism, and he has been taken off the air waves (which are controlled by confirmed socialists), it will be up to Americans to promote his ideas at the grass roots level, and especially over the Internet. We still have time to help do something about this!
Let's talk about it, because I predict that our industry (along with the rest of America) will be much more affected by the end result of this election, than the other legal and political challenges we will face as time moves forward.
Let's hear what you guys (and gals) have to say?
Remember, as passionate as we might feel about these ideas, let's please keep this as a civilized discussion!
I have supported Paul for a long time having been fortunate to hear him give a speech in 1987 and his message has NEVER changed and it is the same message of our founding fathers who though were not perfect did courageously take on tyrants and put into existence the greatest experiment ever in human history of government and free men....one of them noted something to the effect 'that the best form of government would be to no avail if the people were universally corrupt'. I personally don't believe the American public is universally corrupt but I believe a majority are and most certainly the majority that ACTIVELY controls our Congress, Media, and unfortunately our judicial branch.
The paul candidacy has PROVEN with out a doubt the incomprehensible EVIL of the mass media which systemmatically has misreported the man, almost completely ignored or "blacked" him and his message out, and many other FACTS (which will all be documented in a documentary for the people to witness for themselves very soon)...
this has been done NOT simply by people that are eager for socialism but is a coordinated effort at the highest levels of the corporations and "elite" globalists (financial, military industrial, etc.) these people, particularly the financial interests are afraid of Paul because he is spreading the truth regarding our monetary policy and corruption with the Federal Reserve banking system, U.N. membership, "rigged" trade agreements, as well as the PLAIN fact that much of what happens in D.C. is in complete disregard of the Constitution as to the powers of the Federal Government.
I believe many people have grown accustomed to a belief that there was ONLY 2 sides to our political landscape, defined as "liberal" or "conservative" supposedly reflected in the UNFORTUNATE 2 party system (which has an iron grip of control and is contrary to the warnings of the founding fathers who spoke out against political parties because of the evils they wrought)....
Fortunately many people including myself have opened their eyes that things are not the "illusion" that the media pundits or talking heads would like us to believe which is SO EVIDENT by looking at the FACTS. If the so-called "conservatives" controlled 2 of the 3 branches of the government why did we not see border security, or downsizing in the size of the Gov.??? Obviously many of the so-called conservatives ARE NOT what they say they are (big surprise??? NO.) these people are SERVING their "MASTERS".
Our nation has seen a great transformation when it used to be citizens referred to the U.S. as "we states" today, in contrast the U.S. is viewed as a SINGULAR entity...this is contrary to the founders intent that the FEDERAL powers were to be "finite and limited" and the STATES powers were to be "numerous and infinite", the founders knew that they had to set-up a system to protect the people from the Government (what they percieved as the greatest enemy of Liberty and men enjoying the fruits of their toils and labor was the government itself).
Paul garners my outmost respect when he states that we need to duplicate that revolution of our founders (he states this in his online book entitled "freedom under seige" which is available to read on-line), he correctly notes that we today suffer more abuses by our government than those suffered by the colonists under the crown....yet as our own Declaration of Independence has stated clearly, "experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
Paul's story is a HEROIC one, he has been working without any widespread notice for more than 20 years fighting for gold and silver, against the myriad of Big Government tax and spenders, and to protect our Constitution and fortunately after these many years his message has taken root and literally EXPLODED to become a revolution that will out-live this election cycle!! all that remains is for a courageous group of patriots to uphold their "duty" as explained in our Declaration of Independence and we will successfully tear down the tyrants and institute new government (which is actually nothing more than adherance to the Constitution for a change! reversing a century of theft of the people!!)
It is amazing what happens when the genie is "let out of the bottle"....
For the education of skeptics and others that still believe we face merely the "fake" battle of Dem vs. Repub. please go to this site and read a collection of writings of Paul called "texas straighttalk" and I guarantee you it will open up your knowledge to many things that are hidden to most Americans and what the MEDIA desperately does not want you to hear!!:
Nice to here your views in this very important political race. More than any other election year I am getting very nervous of it’s outcome. In past years I would try to vote for the best candidate but if that person didn’t get the nomination then I would just brush it off as just another 4 year…how much damage can they do it just 4 years anyway?
It’s become very obvious that 4 years hooked onto 4 more years can do lots of damage to our personal and property rights. It doesn’t seem to matter what party is elected they are all out to make my rights only a current privilege that the government can take away anytime they choose.
We do need representation in the White House and in the halls of congress that will look after our rights as our bill of rights set forth and honor our country’s constitution. We don’t need any more representation telling us one thing to get elected then doing what the big money wants them to do afterward. Where is the honesty and trust in our elected officials?
I also see many folks, mostly young republicans, standing on the street corners hoisting signs in support of Ron Paul and only Ron Paul. I have wondered why we know very little about this guy that has so many folks volunteering their time and hard earned money to try and elect him. There were comments running around the Internet about him being backed by folks like Sierra club and The Nature Conservancy so I had bowed out of any support for him. I went with Fred Thompson who has already fallen off the campaign trail with hardly a look back or a wave good bye.
I am in the market for someone else to support. What do any of you know about Ron Paul? I am interested in someone that will protect our rights and be able to hold our country together.
I have supported the current war only because I support the idea that as a country we have always been there to help out the less fortunate and in so doing we keep our country strong. With the way congress is going on none of that matters. All that matters is making another party look bad to their benefit. I have always been proud of living in the US of American. That doesn’t seem to be very politically correct any more. The Democrats and liberals spend all their time trying to tear us apart and make us a one big United World front. At one time I almost was pulled into the whole global worldview. Then it occurred to me that it was just another ploy by big business to be opportunistic cannibals and to the politically correct set to give our money to anyone and everything but those that worked for it.
What’s really wrong with our country being strong and we being proud of it?
I’m definitely open to a good discussion on who can help.
While a Ron Paul presidency would certainly be the best we could possibly hope for, the reality is that I just don't believe it can happen.
You haven't heard anything about Ron Paul for the last few weeks, simply because you are not supposed to, as decided by the multi-media giants who control the thought processes of the vast majority of "glued to the tube" Americans.
The sad fact is that there is virtually no chance what-so-ever for Paul to win, and that is true even if he somehow managed to win the popular vote, as it is the electoral vote that actually counts, and he sure as heck ain't a gon'ta win that one!!!
The danger of voting for Ron Paul, just like what happened with Ross Perot, is that it will eat up a bunch of what could otherwise be decisive votes, thus giving the election to the wrong people. Not that there are any really "right" people then or now.
Even were some truly amazing miracle to occur, that would find Ron Paul in the white House, do not think for a minute that he would be able to get anything significant implimented, with Congress fully digging in it's heels at his every suggestion. And not to be too conspiratorial, but were he somehow to be even slightly successful at cutting back our treasonously overbloated beaurocracies, his life wouldn't be worth a plugged nickle, and I'd have to believe we'd be burying yet another chief executive in office.
I don't have any better alternative for you , so sad to say, but I just can't find any belief in the concept that Ron paul is a viable option, even though I truly wish he were!
Just my $.02 worth, and thanks for letting me air it!
Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans make voting decisions on zero real information. They listen to sound bites and "news" items from the mainstream press without looking beyond the headlines. Most people can not see what is good for the country because they are blinded by the I want it now attitude.
they actually believe that somehow Hillary Clinton can find a way to have universal health care, and the dozens of other give-away programs and someone else will pay. Too bad that we are the "some one else"
I think that it will take a MAJOR calamity for the American people to wake up and take our country back. I suspect that we are not too far away from such calamity. Especially if we end up with a Democrat in the White House and a Democrat controlled congress.
well no one is going to accuse you of being an "idealist".
I find it amazing that people would actually state that they believe in someone but they won't vote for them so that they can vote for a "lesser evil"....how exactly are we going to see a change then???
Everyone should read patrick henry's famed "liberty or death" speech to jumpstart them to realize that there is no better time than NOW to take action.....Paul does not represent merely a "campaign" to win the presidency but rather a "revolution" to "take back our country" from those that are abusing it for their own purposes!!
I dare say that the time is very short too and we may not get many more chances as it were to "reverse course" before the noose is tightened around our neck...one thing is for sure we are headed for a economic melt-down which most likely is an intended point to user in the New World Order with promises of better things for doing so!! The funny thing is this stuff is not a "conspiracy" they are planning and doing it right out in the open if you read the reports and papers of the Council on Foreign Relations and of the Bilderberger Group, both globalist groups to diminish our sovereignty and maximize the wealth and control of their members in the sought for "global community". this reminds us of another founders famous quote that he would rather die a free man that live as a slave.
Jefferson is attributed as making the quotation: "When the people fear their government, there IS TYRANNY; when the government fears the people; there is LIBERTY"
I think it is obvious that the Government(including the MSM) do not have any FEAR of the people and thus we see the sytemmatic perversion and tyrannical control diminishing personal responsibility for the "state".
If people realize that Paul is offering not just a candidacy but the proper framework to educate and organize the liberty movement we MOST CERTAINLY will have FEAR in the equation and hopefully a "correction" before the crash.
heres a good picture of the situation: http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=selloutph9dm8jq5.jpg
KeninLA stated: "Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans make voting decisions on zero real information. They listen to sound bites and "news" items from the mainstream press without looking beyond the headlines."
here's something more depressing: that your vote can be cancelled out by someone else that votes because of who they think is cuter, or the candidates skin shade or gender....the reasons why are insane, in exit polling of this year's primary a large percentage (forgot how much) of people didn't know who they were going to vote for when they entered the voting booth (no joke).
I am at least relieved that a majority of Americans don't vote. That would be scary to see what would happen with people that don't even bother to actually be out a pickin and choosin. I don't think it was by accident that the founders limited voting to male property owners (no matter how some people may take that as "politically incorrect", the culture of the day was much different but there was much more self-determination and demands for personal responsibility than what we are breeding today to our detriment.
ron paul has the right message, but he is the wrong messenger.
Could you explain what you meant by that ward35? I am not following your train of thought.
Jim, I have to agree with Ward a few others here. Given the lack of intelligence in this countries majority, in that most will vote the way the news or their unions tell them, Ron doesn't stand a chance. Ol Huck would be my 2nd choice.
Jim, what i mean is ron paul does not seem very polished or presidential in the presentation of his ideas,this is from what i have seen in the debates. He has a good message, but he does not communicate it well. say if an obama or romney type were presenting the same message as paul i believe his ideas would have much more support.
Thanks Ward, all any of us can do in this fiasco is go by what we hear and see.
I have heard from other legislators that he is very polished and has been so for all of his 22 years in office. He may well have felt out of his element in the debates since he has been left out of most debates and is well aware that the media and establishment snubs him.
Ronald reagan said of this man, "Ron Paul is the single most honest politician I know."
he has never taken a "junket" at taxpayers expense, and has also refused to take his government retirement.
The idea that he doesn't stand a chance is sure to win the day for someone else. The only way for our people to ever realize the fact of the issues he champions is if he wins.
He won't win if I don't vote for him.
Rick, the subject of this thread is "What happened to Ron Paul?"
Do you have an opinion about him?
ward I get what you are saying about being a "slick orator" and if that is what people are looking for and need then it goes to show how stupid the public really is. I think Paul is a good speaker but he is not a "master" like some of the "hot air" bags they have out there that "sound good" but have no substance up there in between their ears. I am real biased of course because I will listen to the guy that wants to actually "close down" agencies, remove us from the U.N. and things like that....those to me are more important than "slick presentation" but unfortunately we are dealing with the American public that isn't too smart anymore.
Slick Willie Clinton was a great speaker and debater.
God forbid we ever get another one like him. I would rather have someone that is honest. I don't agree with Ron Paul on all issues but I think that he would make a good president. At least I agree with him on the most important issues that will determine how well this country prospers over the next few decades.
Think about it. Are you going to have the pundits and talking heads tell you how you should vote or are you going to vote for someone that shares your views?
If this doesn't make you angry...nothing will
N.H. RECOUNT - URGENT ACTION REQUIRED
January 28, 2008
(c) 2008 - NewsWithViews.com
Due to the obvious fraud which occurred during the New Hampshire primary
earlier this month, the fabulous Granny Warriors http://www.grannywarriors.com/ mobilized and not only found a GOP candidate who cares about the actual vote count, but raised an enormous
amount of money in record time to get a recount underway in the state. It
would take several columns to go over step by step what a phenomenal job the
Granny Warriors, Eric and Mr. Albert Howard have done to get the recount
officially sanctioned. We all owe them a huge thank you and we also need to
do our part NOW because what's happened since the recount was set to begin,
has not only been reprehensible, those responsible in the Secretary of
State's office need to be held accountable.
I was on the road from January 15-25th and fully expected the recount to be
completed by the time I returned to Texas. On January 25, 2008, I spoke with
a true American patriot named Eric, who has been on the ground since the
beginning and has sacrificed a great deal for all of us. During our
conversation, Eric informed me that the recount had been repeatedly delayed
and there was a problem with the chain of custody with the ballots among
other possible violations of the law. While listening to Eric as I was
driving, had my rental vehicle been steam driven, I could have powered it
the rest of the way home I was so incensed.
Mr. Albert Howard, the GOP candidate whose challenge made this recount
possible, has sent a letter to the SOS informing them of what many of us
already knew: the continued delay of the recount destroys we the people's
ability to stop and challenge primary outcomes in other states for obvious
reasons. There's no doubt in my mind these delays have been deliberate on
top of the other shenanigans, i.e., while the Kucinich people only had to
pay the $2,000 fee for the recount to begin right away, Mr. Howard's request
for the recount was met with a demand by the Secretary of State (SOS) that
$55,000 be raised within 48 hours or the recount was kaput.
As I said in my January 14, 2008, column, there's no question the office of
the Secretary of State does not want the light shined on their ability to
conduct fair and impartial elections. However, what they've done is patently
un-American and they should be ashamed of themselves. Of course, they aren't
because this is the moral rot that has been creeping into the American
landscape for decades. Paychecks are more important than honesty and
integrity. Party loyalty now takes precedence over truth. If the actions of
Secretary Gardner of any of his personnel have violated election laws, they
need to be prosecuted because no one is above the law.
Where do things stand as of today? According to what Eric was told on
January 25, 2008, the process will move forward with no delays. This from
personnel who have done nothing but play games for one day shy of three
weeks from the pretend primary while the clock is ticking. There can be NO
more delays. The horse and pony production called "Super Tuesday," February
5, 2008, where 22 states will be participating is closing in on those of us
who want Ron Paul to win the GOP nomination this summer. We cannot take the
SOS's (Secretary of State) word for anything at this point, we must act now.
What's next? I cannot go into details at this time, but there will be legal
consequences to the actions of the Secretary of State's office and this is
being worked. I will do an update when I have the details. These public
servants have NO right to cheat the people of New Hampshire on this recount,
but that's exactly what all this stalling and jumping through hoops has been
about. As I said above, this delay has crippled the people's right to
challenge the vote in other states and if this isn't resolved this week, the
fraud will continue and Ron Paul's run will have been for nothing, cheated
by electronic voting/counting machines and career bureau-rats. While
organizations like BlackBoxVoting.org have done remarkable work over the
years in fully documenting the fraud of the presidential elections in 2000
and 2004, the vote still stood even though massive fraud took place. We
cannot let this happen with Ron Paul's run for the White House. Every
primary means delegates for that convention this summer.
Dr. Paul's campaign has now officially filed a caucus challenge with the
Louisiana GOP; see here
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5488507.html . About time his
campaign decided to question and challenge what we know has been going on
since Iowa. For more details on the botching of the Louisiana caucus, see
here http://www.infowars.net/articles/january2008/250108Win.htm .
These links will give you the latest on the recount. Also, the links at the
bottom will direct you to more regarding this fiasco in New Hampshire.
Letter from Albert Howard http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5606 to the SOS
regarding delaying of the recount.
New Hampshire video evidence http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ from
What can you do? The same as I am doing this morning: Call and fax the
Governor of the State of New Hampshire, John Lynch, and politely tell him:
The Secretary of State's office has been delaying and stalling the recount
requested and paid for by Mr. Albert Howard. This recount is from the
January 8, 2008, primary - a whopping 20 days ago. The obvious fraud
prompted Mr. Howard to request this recount, but he has been stymied at
every turn and time is of the essence on this recount which should have been
finished ten days ago.
Additionally, certain individuals in the office of the Secretary of State
have likely committed violations of New Hampshire's election laws and you
are requesting the Governor do two things: (1) Step in and direct the
Secretary of State William M. Gardner, to get the recount done this week,
and (2) direct the Attorney General for the State of New Hampshire to open
an investigation into likely violations of New Hampshire's elections laws,
i.e., chain of custody of the ballots, slits in the ballot boxes and
unlawful transport and security of the ballots:
NH Election laws including RSA chapters 39 & 40: 660:5: Conduct of recount.
If directed by the SOS, the State Police shall collect all ballots requested
from the town or city clerks having custody of them and shall deliver them
to the public facility designated by the SOS.
Instead of the ballots being transported by the State Police, they were
transported by Butch & Hoppy. Butch & Hoppy? As far as I can find out at
this time, B & H are not personnel of the SOS, but something akin to
independent contractors. BIG red flag for chain of custody and we have to
get to the bottom of this travesty.
If you are a citizen of the sovereign state of New Hampshire, be sure to
make that known when you contact the governor and AG's offices. I've been in
this arena going on twenty years and I can tell you flat out that elected
officials hate getting heat from outside their state, but they pay extra
attention if the heat comes from a citizen because the governor and attorney
general are statewide elected offices.
Call and fax the Attorney General's office. Tell State Attorney General
Kelly Ayotte, you insist her office open a criminal inquiry into the actions
of the Office of the Secretary of State regarding the recount requested and
paid for by GOP candidate, Albert Howard. Irregularities include chain of
custody of ballots, tampering with the ballot boxes, transporting the
ballots, irregular security of the ballots, stalling and preferential
treatment for the Kucinich people in allowing them to pay only the initial
fee to begin a recount while requiring Mr. Howard to come up with $55,000
within 48 hours.
One note about Kucinich's recount: it has been stopped allegedly due to lack
of funds http://www.sos.nh.gov/ . According to the SOS, Kucinich's people
are "happy" with the recount that did take place. It is my understanding
that the Kucinich people are not happy with the outcome of the limited
recount. If Rep. Kucinich, even though he's dropped out of the race, is
unsatisfied, then he will have to fight his own battle with the SOS. See:
New Hampshire Sec. of State Appears to Lie http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5602
to Media About Kucinich Hand Count."
You can send email, but these offices get so much, most likely all you'll
get back is a form response. A fax is something their office staff will
physically receive and we need to bury the Governor's office and the
Attorney General in faxes.
The phone call is equally important because their staffs will be overwhelmed
and I say so be it. We CANNOT allow this type of malfeasance govern our
Governor John Lynch's contact information:
Office of the Governor
25 Capitol Street
Concord, NH 03301
(603) 271-7680 (fax)
E-mail is direct from their site here
http://www.egov.nh.gov/governor/goveforms/comments.asp . "Your comments
and suggestions are always welcome." See? The Governor wants to hear from
Attorney General Kelly A. Ayotte contact information:
New Hampshire Department of Justice
33 Capitol Street
Concord, NH 03301
Telephone (603) 271-3658
Fax (603) 271-2110
Only tens of thousands of faxes and phone calls will motivate Governor Lynch
and Attorney General Ayotte to move on this, so I would ask you to please
take a few minutes out of your schedule today and tomorrow to flood the
state house with phone calls (please be polite) and faxes. Eric, the Granny
Warriors and Mr. Howard have given up so much for this recount; misery and
headaches they should not have to endure. The least we the people can do is
back them up with our action to make sure that recount is finished in a few
days because the upcoming primaries will produce more fraud. Make no mistake
about it and all our efforts and financial sacrifices to get Ron Paul the
GOP nomination will be stolen from us.
Also, the Granny Warriors are in the hole as far as expenses. Here is a
recap of the monies spent on the recount effort; I have the full breakdown.
Because of the mucking round by the SOS's office, Mr. Howard's expenses have
increased. Another by-product of the under handed tricks by Secretary
Gardner and his people.
Total amount collected: $65,030.00
Minus unconfirmed donations: $3,535.00 (i.e., credit card rejections because
of over limit authorization)
Minus paypal fees: $1,800.00
True total of income: $60,695.00
$2000.00 - Filing Fees
$2,500.00 - Expenses for Albert Howard
$344.00 - Air plane Fare
$176.00 - Hotel for Mr. Howard
$176.00 - Hotel ditto
$176.00 - Hotel ditto
$55,600.00 - Recount Fee to the Secretary of State
Amount spent: $61,972.00
Amount collected: $60,695.00
$1,387.00 in the Red. I hope you will join me in making a donation to the
Granny Warriors to help them recover these expenses which are now out of
pocket. What they've done benefits all of us; you can make a donation here
Please disseminate this column to all Ron Paul supporters you know because
it's numbers that count - phone calls and faxes.
1 - New Hampshire Voting Fraud Caught On Tape
2 - New Hampshire ballot boxes found slit
3 - Diebold Machine Rejects Ron Paul Votes In Michigan
4 - Ron Paul video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0nJH6zB9VM : his
personal message on the progress of his campaign
5 - Project Vote Count http://www.votecount2008.org/
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I like alot of Devvy's commentary but I don't think that her opening words of "obvious fraud" are at all accurate unless there is some proof to back that up. She could say their "custody" is a joke in NH of the ballots.
I'd say that NH proves how pitiful our elections are as to being actually conducted without suspicions (they can't afford to use new cardboard boxes or to actually "seal them????), ironically Afghanistan has been reported to have better security of the ballots than NH...
I guess they had their hired guys go pick em up in a van and they go into a warehouse type entry point (closed to public view) before they are taken to the appropriate room for counting (and they were not "locked" in such a way to make sure that they couldn't be tampered with) Of course it would seem like a job for "mission impossible" to break in and do a "switch a roo" but at least they could make it harder!!!
the state "seals" don't even stick!!! nor are they numbered or anything to keep track of them so anyone getting blank ones and filling them out would be undetectable.
I doubt there would be a widespread multi-person conspiracy to commit election fraud but I could see a couple of people getting paid off (consider what the candidates spend and divide it by the number of votes and you will see that each vote represents thousands of dollars of investment.
At least NH didn't use computer only voting machines (really scary with no paper trail to count)...I am afraid that overall as Washington state proved in their last gubernatorial election that FRAUD still exists not to mention the dead, felons and illegals casting ballots!!
Hopefully the NH secretary of state will have the "sign-in" logs brought in to correlate the amount of votes to numbers signed in (though some people could concievably sign-in and not cast a vote for pres. candidate).
the thing that surprised me about NH in the exit polling was that McCain recieved the largest amount of votes from people that wanted to see the end of the Iraq war!! and only days before he stated that he's stay there 100 years if that's what it took and there is the video of him singing the beach boys song Barbara Ann changing the words to Ba BA BA Bomb Bomb Iran
People have to be clueless.
McCain is also big on the global warming and amnesty...I was surprised he didn't switch parties awhile back truthfully.
if you caught the CNN debate on wed. you got a glimpse of "what happened" to the only fiscal conservative. He is cut off or totally ignored (because they are afraid of people hearing what he says...the truth is kind of one of those things that many people want to keep "under wraps").
I honestly can't believe this is happening right before our very eyes, it is so disturbing. I think the "establishment" underestimates the amount of negative consequences they are brewing for themselves, people will eventually get fed up with the "statism" and push back.
“A Revolutionary Act”
A vote for Ron Paul would be a revolutionary act and would achieve the same thing our forefathers achieved back in 1776, only without all the needless chaos and bloodshed. Ron Paul is a true American patriot of heroic status. The corruption in government, however, has reached such unbelievably widespread proportions that he would need to virtually purge the entire bureaucracy completely of the criminal class that has currently infiltrated it. At the moment Ron Paul is the most popular candidate on the Internet. The mainstream media won't give him the time of day because they are owned by the very people the Power Elite… those who put forward these candidates, that the American public unwittingly votes for simply because they are the only ones they are made publicly aware of by the corporately owned media institutions.
It could never be hoped or expected that one man, Ron Paul, could ever single-handedly turn around the humongous and malicious juggernaut our US federal government has become. All that could be hoped for would be that his presence at the head of that government might serve to inspire and allow the good American people to create the space in which a more truly American consciousness may once again take root and thrive. That is what the nation is truly all about. It's about thriving communities of virtuous and highly motivated human consciousness. A man who stands by the principles upon which our nation was founded and which made it the richest and most powerful, in fact, the greatest nation in the known history of man, is all that would be needed.
For the American people to demand that Ron Paul be made the leader of such a nation would be a bloodless, yet timely revolutionary act and would achieve the same thing that our forefathers achieved back in 1776. Do the American people have the same strength of character, the will and love of country today? Only real Americans can make a real America once again! The real America exists today only in the hearts of those who have not been deceived and have not tried to overshadow it with their corporate commercial shell now called the “USA, Inc.” Constitutional USA is alive and well and at its head stands a lone man who is unwaveringly dedicated to principles rather than profits. Let us elect him to lead the America we choose to live in, not the incorporated commercial shell of a nation the military/industrial complex seeks to impose on us.
It is true that today there are two Americas, one that is on a path that many Americans do not wish to follow, and the other which was founded by our forefathers, men of vision, integrity and fairness, who founded more than a nation. They established the principles that would eventually embrace the whole of humanity. Principles of that would establish and protect human liberty, independence and self-determination if we, the people would have the strength of character and the courage to keep it alive within ourselves. That is what we do here today by preserving our nation. We are engaging in a revolutionary act, just as our forefathers did. Let the Power Elite have their profit and power ruled Corporate USA, but also let We, the People have our Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence guided Constitutional USA for future posterity as well.
We choose the Honorable Mr. Ron Paul as our President. We are declaring our existence as a nation and that our nation exists as a beacon for anyone who chooses to live by those principles. The only way to save the real America is for US to declare ourselves an independent nation once again under our U.S. Constitution before it is lost forever. There is no moral or legal partisan opposition to America’s regeneration of itself, but profit and power oriented corporate commercial opposition will no doubt occur. Corporate America may oppose the return to a constitutionally protected America, but they cannot stop it… not if it lives in the hearts and minds of its people.
But we must remember, the scum in a pond always rises to the top… this is true also in politics and in government, so if the people cannot get started to “clean the pond”, it’s all over! The opportunity to start is right before us and the only “right” choice is obvious. I’d rather vote for Ron Paul and LOSE, rather than vote for any of the other candidates and WIN. You can be sure that we won’t clean this country up in one election, but we can now finally get started in that direction.
Here is a good place to start cleaning…
Sounds good, but the problem is in order to win an election you need a majority, which thanks to the dumbing down of the general public as controlled by the MSM, a thinking and informed majority is not available.
In 1776 less than half the populace supported the revolution and far less than 10% actually participated, which is why there was no choice but to do it thru Force of Arms.
Sadly, we are at about the same demographic disadvantage today, though perhaps for different, more insidious reasons.
So Rick, since you don't want to speak to the issue of What happened to Ron Paul? It seems like you have no interest in bettering this country and reversing the way it is going, your answer is to just start shooting people?
If you don't choose to stick to the subject, perhaps it would be better to just ignore the subject.
If you read Ron Paul's strategy, you will come to understand that although a majority is needed to get him elected, that majority is not individual people, but delegates. If he wins a majority of delegates, he wins period. Remember that it is the electoral college that installs a president.
Those that don't vote for him because they think he cannot win, only assure that he cannot win.
Yes I am fully aware of that and addressed that issue in an earlier post. For Paul to win a majority of the delegates in the electoral college he will have to win at least a super minority of the popular vote. Now given the original concept of Mac's first post, ie the total media blackout being provided to Ron Paul, and given the fact that he doesn't have "the best hair" that the media-itized mass populace needs to see in the tabloids and news bytes to vote for him. Just where do you suppose he will get the delegates need.
Do you remember Ross Perot? He did extremely well considering, but he was still Bill Clinton's favorite candidate!
Now if we can get Paul to be the R candidate of choice I'm all for it and will vote in the primaries to see if that can happen, but if he goes independant after the primaries, all bets are off.
I am not positive but I don't believe the "delegates" sent to the convention are "bound" to vote for the candidate that has won more delegates than the others. the selection of the delegates is one where they try to match those sent to who they think they will vote for..
because this year the "front runners" are all LIBERALS there is a good chance that the convention will be brokered and delegates will shift around (not to mention the delegates help set the "platform" of the party)...One thing is obvious: the Republican party has been "hi-jacked" by BIG GOV spenders more commonly referred to as "neo-conservatives" since they are not actually conservatives. Ron Paul gave a good speech about them on the House floor entitled "NEO-CONNED" as well as Patrick Buchanan writing a book about them in "where the right went wrong".
here is pauls speech about them (please read this): http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm
Thanks for your response Jim… ( 17:01:10 Thu Jan 31 2008 )
Please forgive my rather Pollyannaish introductory rhetoric, but my first posting was simply meant to “plant my flag” on a piece of the territory that seems to be developing around Dave’s very thought-provoking query at the beginning of this thread. I further hope that we can encourage the present discussion to remain at least positive and constructive even if perhaps somewhat speculative and “out of the box” at times. We’re at a juncture in our “American” history when we need to extend ourselves a bit, just like our Forefathers did.
Your points are extremely valid, well-taken, and sufficient in giving me cause to elaborate a bit on what I’m eventually going to suggest here, but first let me clarify my personal allegiances in order to determine whether I’m in the right discussion or not. To begin with, I’m a military veteran of the Vietnam era who swore to protect our American Constitutional Republic from its enemies, foreign and domestic. However, I do not advocate the “My country, right or wrong” principle that so many military minds subscribe to. Such a belief is irresponsible and only strengthens the enemy’s stranglehold on our legitimate protections.
Allegiance is NOT something I just arbitrarily give to a country because I happen to have been born in it. I give my allegiance to the country that best honors and respects my individuality and my wish to be free and independent in expressing it. My service and my patriotism go to the people and the country that best fosters and practices this ethic and embodies it in its social, political and economic codes in the here and now. America promised me this from its foundation in the past, but no longer delivers it in the present. During the past two centuries, the American people have proven that mankind’s “Right” to these conditions and considerations are only God-given when men unconditionally choose for it to be so. It is conditional and men must meet this condition half-way!
After a lifetime of observation, I’m forced to take the view that the American people have not chosen to accept and embrace the responsibility for maintaining these “God-given Rights” and have thus, for all intents and purposes, renounced them by default. Can anyone show me where I err in this observation? Our Bill of Rights, our Declaration of Independence and our US Constitutional assurances of these Rights are invalidated if they do not live in the hearts and consciousness of the people for whom they were chronicled and given. These qualities are lost to those who don’t defend them themselves, because of a lack of vigilance, concern or sheer neglect.
Our Constitutionally sanctioned laws which were originally meant to safe-guard the welfare and concerns of our people have been gradually and all but completely eroded away and displaced by commercial codes, statutes and regulations (which are not laws) and which really only benefit a relatively small, unobserved, elitist class of merchants… a cabal of International Corporate Bankers and Industrialists who now own our government, its representatives and its entire bureaucratic machinery and now control every waking hour and action of our lives.
So, where is all this ranting and raving going? It simply leads to another point for consideration…
By participating in the current electoral farce we are simply joining the enemy on their own illegally infiltrated and conquered turf, are we not? We are never going to win a war against an enemy who has illegally hijacked our country by joining his army, fighting by his rules and using his weapons against ourselves. How much sense does this really make… Think about it!
OK! What other options can be considered?
Personally, I’m inclined to believe that those who identify with “hopelessness” may be correct, but not because I actually believe its “hopeless”, only because that seems to be the condition that governs the “majority” of Americans minds because of their ignorance of the reality they are subject to. I chose to leave America and become an ex-pat, because I didn't fit anymore... and I couldn’t submit to that condition and if I’d stayed, I’d have been completely out of sync with what the majority of American people seem to be willingly inviting upon themselves. Fortunately, I’ve found a country that respects and honors my sense of appropriateness in government, for the time being anyway.
However, if I believed that even a minority of genuine Americans were willing to break away from “USA, INCORPORATED”, that is, our invading and illegal government (AKA the “Shadow Government”),I’d be inclined to re-colonize my own country under its original constitutional provisions, with a man like Ron Paul as it’s Founder/Leading Figure. That’s the way our original founders did it and that’s the only way the country will ever be restored to its original stature. By thinking “out of the box”! Let me share a few words from Henry David Thoreau:
In his famous essay on CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, Thoreau had this to say:
"I heartily accept the motto - That government is best which governs least. This American government - what is it but a tradition, though a recent one, endeavoring to transmit itself unimpaired to posterity, but each instant losing some of its integrity. It is a sort of wooden gun to the people themselves; and, if ever they should use it in earnest as a real one against each other, it will surely split. But it is not the less necessary for this; for the people must have some complicated machinery or other, and hear its din, to satisfy that idea of government that they have. Government shows, thus, how successfully men can be imposed upon, even impose on themselves, for their own advantage. How does it become a man to behave toward his American government today? I answer that he cannot, without disgrace, be associated with it. All men recognize the right of revolution; that is, the right to refuse allegiance to and to resist the government when it’s tyranny or its inefficiency are great and unendurable. Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men, generally, under a government such as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and do better than it would have them? The authority of government even such as I am willing to submit to -for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well - is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. There will never be a really free and enlightened state, until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a state at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose, if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellowmen. A state which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious state, which also I have imagined, but not yet anywhere seen."
This letter from Ron Paul illustrates the election of president by delegates better than I did...see what you think Jeff.
Incidently, the Colorado straw poll gave Ron over 52% of the votes. The second higest percentage went to Barack Obama at 16.18%
January 28, 2008
When I started this campaign more than a year ago, I was a somewhat reluctant candidate. I knew our message of freedom, peace, and prosperity was the right one for our country, but frankly, I didn't know how many people today would have ears to hear it.
Well, did I learn a lesson! Millions of Americans understand what ails our country, and what is needed to fix it. So, with you at my side, I am in this effort to win. Not only by building the ideas of liberty, but by getting the nomination. Our opponents would call that nuts -- you know, the advocates of more inflation, more spending, more taxes, m ore war. But let me explain why they are, as usual, all wet.
For one thing, for the first time since 1952, we are headed towards a brokered convention. Instead of a coronation of one of the establishment candidates, the delegates, influenced by the people, will decide. And I am afraid that this will take place in a time of heightened economic crisis. That means even more Americans will be ready to hear our message. But it also means I am really going to need your help.
One would never know this from the mainstream media, but we've only had a few primaries and caucuses, and even after the extremely important date of February 5th, we will still have more than half to go. And the Republican nominee will not be decided by the popular vote among the "leading candidates" in a few states also handpicked by the media. The nominee will be decided by the delegates. So let me tell you a little about our "under-the-radar" strategy to get those delegates.
On "Super Tuesday," February 5th, there will be 22 primaries and caucuses. I have a hunch that we're going to do very well. But, of course, the media and the rest of the establishment refuse to recognize that. It's the attitude of the small child who covers his eyes to make something scary go away. But we are not going away.
While the media focus on the couple of states they claim are important, we're competing everywhere. And the reason that we're able to do that is because of your grassroots support. You all are an asset that no other campaign has: donors, and activists who want no special deals from the government, just the Constitution.
We're competing very strongly in all the caucus states, and in all other states where delegates are up for grabs. And we're going to keep picking up delegates. Our strategy's already working.
And we're committed to winning states. I have little doubt that if we can double our efforts in this coming week, we're going to grab many delegates from other candidates. Then we'll start getting ready for the biggest moment of all - the convention in September.
The path to the convention is twisty, however. When we were in Iowa, we got 10% of the vote. But no delegates were awarded that night. That's because voters didn't directly choose national convention delegates; they selected the county and state delegates who will make that decision. And if another candidate like Mike Huckabee is no longer in the race at the time of the state convention in June, his delegates are free to support whomever they want. If we work extra hard, we can convert them into delegates for our campaign!
A similar thing happened in Nevada. We won 14% of the straw poll vote that the media reported on, but what they didn't tell you was that we may have gotten up to a third of Nevada's delegates to their county conventions! I always laughed when I heard some people say Nevada didn't matter. Nevada chooses more delegates to the national convention than South Carolina.
So, while the media will focus on the results from Florida, and probably take down the campaign of my friend Rudy in the process, those results are less important to you and me. Let them fight in Florida while we bring our message to Americans in other areas, like the economically hard-hit state of Maine.
We want to win as many delegates to the Republican National Convention as possible, even if other campaigns don't see some areas of the country as "important. But in this work, I need your help. Help me get many, many delegates to this historic convention, by these three methods.
1. Donate. Your generous contributions are essential if we're going to keep going until September. We need, frankly $5 million by February 5 to run more TV and radio ads in the Super Tuesday states. Your help means everything: https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate.
2. Canvass. You can help us identify those who support our message in your precinct. You can help us to convert others, too. After all, your neighbors pay attention to you. I am going to visit as much of the country as I can, but I need you as my partner in your area: https://voters.ronpaul2008.com.
3. ASK others to sign-up on our website. I meet so many people on the campaign trail who don't even receive my letters! I've told my campaign to make communication with you, the engine of all this, much better. But if people don't sign up for my e-mails, that won't happen. If you could just get one extra person to sign-up, that would be great. More would be tremendous.
Help me by forwarding this e-mail to every other Ron Paul supporter you know, and urging them to join our efforts! https://www.ronpaul2008.com/join.
We've come so far, but now the fun is really starting! I have a feeling the mainstream media will move from ignoring us to attacking us. But that will be a sign of our success. Join me as we continue this great movement into year two, and to a hot convention in Minneapolis-Saint Paul. We can do it!
the 2007 fourth quarter campaign financing numbers were released.
Here's a MAIN reason why the Media is afraid of Paul (consider if you will that over the last year his name or face has been shown on TV only 1/100 as much as John McCains!!!)
In addition Paul's finances are from individuals in contrast to Many of the others that have corporate and professional "consolidators"/lobbyists.
Why does Paul get more donations from the U.S. military personell??? He must be weak on defense I guess.
Totals Raised from Individuals 2007 Q4
F Thompson 8,861,403
T Thompson 32,581
We also have some big picture to look at
F Thompson 8,861,403
T Thompson 32,581
Thanks a lot for joining in this discussion, you guys! I personally can understand and appreciate the ideas and feelings outlined in every post on this subject.
Listening to this discussion, my earlier realization has been reaffirmed that we must stand for what is right, even if the majority of Americans have not woken up yet to what the real problems are, and what the better solutions might be (rather than expand federal government solutions to fix all the problems they have created).
Under the present circumstances, its actually a miracle that we even have a national candidate that is promoting the right ideas on television, even if he is getting cut short in the debates!
If individual Americans have already contributed $19 million to Ron Paul's campaign, this shows that there is a very substantial movement behind the concept of going back to America's basic constitutional principals. The movement is much bigger than I thought!
I've never been able to stand by and do nothing while others take personal risks to fight for my personal freedom, or that of my friends. If there's something really worth fighting for, you can count me in!
This is way beyond being something worth fighting for. We are talking about the future of our whole way of life. We may never have a better opportunity to spread the word, then we do during this election process!
I just did something I have not done since Ross Perot was running. I sent in a $100 contribution to Ron Paul's campaign. In case anyone else would like to make a contribution, here is the link:
So here is the next question: What can we do to effectively help spread the "awakening" being generated by Ron Paul's national campaign; the message that we must seriously roll back the federal government towards what was intended by our founding fathers?
Millions of other Americans have joined in this revolution. What can we do to help support and expand the movement?
So here is the next question: What can we do to effectively help spread the "awakening" being generated by Ron Paul's national campaign; the message that we must seriously roll back the federal government towards what was intended by our founding fathers?
Millions of other Americans have joined in this revolution. What can we do to help support and expand the movement?
We have alot of ground to "make up" as it stands now because the "state-ists" are well organized and hold much influence in all the critical areas such as "education" as well as current control of BOTH political parties, much of the judicial branch,etc. in this country (and contrary to the founders admonitions we are controlled by a 2 party system)
I really do believe that the "light" has been "flipped on" as it were and there are scores of people that are being awakened to what has been happening in our very real loss of liberty in the country and its subsequent decline to totalitarian statism (EDUCATION is the key)
Liberty works!!! statism is doomed to failure.
we must identify CORE elements and information that addresses these core elements for we citizens to educate ourselves so we understand them fully and can better tell those around us in this endeavor. I strongly suggest people go to Pauls Congressional website and read his writings as available online, especially those under "texas straight talk" found here: http://www.house.gov/paul/legis.shtml
the constitution (many have never read it nor understand it which requires also reading the federalist papers and reading other documents of the founders and understanding what they knew (real smart guys)...It is truly amazing the spooky spine chilling similarities in reading the founders documents on Liberty and their thinking to fight and die for it (risking everything) and the subsequent struggle to set-up a government that would PROTECT IT from what they knew was easily abused by despots and tyrants that diminsh liberty whenever possible....basically they WARNED US, set in motion an "experiment" and told us it required eternal "vigilance", in fact Benjamin Franklin commented it was "a REPUBLIC if you can keep it" (but the U.S. population doesn't know about it for lack of reading).
What is "federalism".
economics and monetary policy (educating ones self to the realm of what free markets are, what "sound money" is, central banking (another thing many founders hated with a passion), what fractional reserve banking is, who the federal reserve is and how that system operates controlling our economy now). (BTW paul entered into politics as he was a COIN DEALER as a side "hobby" (he is rumored to own 3 million in gold coins) he was greatly influenced by economics and the corrupt federal reserve system/lack of "sound money" we have and ECONOMICS (the austrian school) This is what led him to feel compelled to leave a lucrative private medical practice to fight for liberty in D.C. (being a "silent" minority of one in his fight and only recently seeing the "message" take off like a prarie fire). he has stated that he is "optimistic" when only a year ago he doubted that the U.S. would ever return to what made the country great (personal liberty and responsibility)
I am positive that Paul (with his Sons, the Mises Institute, Lew Rockwell.com, Gun owners of America, the Liberty Dollar, etc. and etc. will consolidate to have a internet based avenue or "network" for the REVOLUTION to EXPAND. (by the way Paul is releasing a new book entitled, "the Revolution: a manifesto"
I am optimistic that this is only the beginning but keep in mind that to see "change" it is best to work from the BOTTOM UP (you can make a difference locally, the GOP party though corrupted could be taken over by true patriots or maybe the constitution party or something new will be created from the ashes of the GOP??? it starts in your home, then your town, city, county, district, state,
Excellent post Jeff, thanks for your thoughts, they are right on the money.
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