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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator  Reply |
Merry Christmas to everyone!
As long as everything firms up the way it looks at the moment, I hope to announce miles of excellent new high-banking ground over the coming month or so. Once we resume dredging in California, one of the properties contains some of the richest underwater mining along the Klamath, much of it remaining untouched. Extensive bedrock gently sloping off the far side of the river will make this perhaps the best above and below water sniping and crevicing area along the Klamath River! Once in a while, the sun really does smile on us! You can find out more about this and other news in our December newsletter |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Thanks Dave, I'm looking forward to the new properties. I've a 2-1/2" Proline that need to be fed. With my new job I'm going to be able to get over that way more this year.
Mike
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
That's great, Mike!
People should start thinking about setting up floating hookah systems so they can get at all the underwater crevicing possibilities... |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
I've been thinking about some sniping Dave. Up on the land mining is getting pretty hard. Age, gravity and such are starting to whisper in my ear. Sometime they even shout to me.
A hookah system sound great, but they are kind of expensive. Do you (or anyone else) have any thoughts on getting geared up at a reasonable cost? This would be a whole new animal to me. Thanks Dave, Mike
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InspectorTom Offline 315 posts  Reply |
I have had this plan in my noggin' for some time now of using the 5 hp / Thompsen compressor platform from my 3" dredge and mounting it on a large truck inner tube type platform to use as my sniping / crevising outfit. Right now I'm gonna' spend some time on Google Earth daydreaming about where those properties are...I'm assuming somewhere between I-5 and the mouth of the Salmon River...
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Jim_Alaska Offline 1928 posts Administrator  Reply |
You have the right idea Tom. It doesn't take much of an engine to run a T-80 compressor. Mounted on an inner tube is the easiest way to do it.
For anyone that already has a two or three inch dredge it would be a snap to simply mount the compressor on it. Just don't forget that if you use an existing dredge setup you will need some weight on the side of the inner tube that doesn't have the engine and compressor on it. My two and a half inch dredge is seriously weighted to one side without the sluice on it and I have to put some weight on the other side to offset it. I could just remount the engine and compressor in the middle with a plywood platform, but I want to still be able to use it as a dredge and don't want to have to modify it back and forth from a dredge to an air platform each time.
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
A guy could also use a normal dredge frame and pontoon set up without the sluice, jet and suction hose. That would not be a "dredge" under the regulatory definition. This might float better in moving water than an inner tube, although an inner tube is a good idea for slower water areas.
Since you will have a motor there anyway, you could pump some water down through a pressure hose and blaster nozzle (with a valve) to help clear material out of the cracks. A guy could probably work a foot or two of overburden with something like this. Or, you could set up the motor and compressor on the bank and extend the airline to any length necessary to get you out where you want to go. Though, in this case, I would tie the motor off to something on the bank so it doesn't get dragged into the water. There are places on other New 49'er claims where dredgers told me they could see the gold in the cracks under fast water, but were not able to get out there with any suction hose! If I could figure out how to gather the gold up under those conditions, I would go out and give it a try! |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Thanks for all the info guys. I received a helpful PM from Lee on this also. We are still figuring out new ways to skin that old cat.
See ya on the river this spring, or sooner maybe. Mike
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Rod_Seiad Offline 376 posts Reply |
OK then as Dave pointed out a blaster nozzle powered by the hookah engine could be a creative and effective tool.
Can we be certain the opposition would condone such innovation? The use of pressurized water rather than suction water is a fine line. My dredge pump maxes out around 30 psi. That could be improved to 60 psi pretty easily by switching over to a high rpm engine or overdrive the pump. Maybe 100 psi is in reach. I've thought for a long time about attempting to create a rock drill/cutter which operated similar to acetylene torch physics. With enough pressure under water I don't see a limit. The air compressor needs to be 120 psi and be trigger controlled by the diver. If I start from scratch with my 6.5 hp vertical shaft pressure washer and hooked-up hookah air. I wonder. |
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InspectorTom Offline 315 posts Reply |
Thanks Jim,
I think Dave has the right idea too. My little 3" dredge pontoons would be more stable than even a large inner tube, plus less work to just modify 3" dredge frame rather than building a whole new platform on an inner tube. Can rig my pump output to run the 1" blast hose off my 5" Precision. Which one of us is gonna' be the first guy in the water on the new properties?:doublethumbsup:
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Oregon_Jim Offline 38 posts Reply |
I deleted an earlier post that stated my concern about the use of water hoses because I didn't want to question Dave's wisdom on the matter, but I just can't help feeling this is going to creat more legal issues. I'd like to explain why so that everyone can tell me I am wrong.
My worry is really very simple; I believe the tribes and their lawyers, along with just about every other official agency will also bring this to the courts, saying that using water hoses under water to "blast away" at sediments is no different than hydraulic mining above the water. This will result in even more restrictions and lawsuits. It may be legal now, but I'll bet before the end of summer this will end up in the courts and all of us will face even more problems and obstructions to our mining. Now, PLEASE tell me I am worried over nothing. Also, just for the record, I hope you folks that live near the river will keep us up to date on the river conditions. I'd be tempted to do some winter or early springtime diving awhen conditions are good enough. |
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InspectorTom Offline 315 posts Reply |
Oregon Jim,
Let not your heart be troubled. You are not wrong, your concerns are valid but I do hope you're worried for nothing. It does not matter what we do, the enviro-fascists will attack any mining method we come up with to circumvent the illegal laws forced on us. We proved Mercury removal, they came up with "methal-mercury", etc, etc. The facts have been ignored to further an agenda. Miners have Federal Mining Rights. I plan on exercising my rights. :doublethumbsup:
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
Here is my best answer for this line of questioning: If we subject ourselves to only doing those things which we believe our enemies won't object to, than we truly will have completed the transaction into complete slavery! Said another way: Our enemies are going to object to anything we do, no matter what it is!
They would even object if we do nothing! Rob; on the subject of pressure, we have had really good luck using motorized pressure washers underwater (extended pressure hose with motor up in a boat or on the bank). While it would seem that 3,000 pounds of pressure would blast things a long way underwater, the power diminishes to nothing just several inches away from the pressure nozzle, and uses very little water. There is actually very little disturbance. But the effect of uncovering and freeing rocks is quite amazing! Since most of underwater mining has to do with uncovering and removing over-sized rocks (the ones that would normally not suck up through a dredge nozzle), there is a lot to be said about freeing them up with pressure, rather than suction. Even on larger dredges, at the end of the day, our tailings piles are quite small (from the material we actually sucked up). Maybe 80% of the volume or more was from moving rocks by hand, not much differently than what we do in high-banking at the surface. With a small pressure nozzle, I'm thinking we could move rocks underwater at a similar pace as we do with a dredge. Therefore, I would sure like to hear some creative ideas on how to then gather up the remaining smaller-sized materials and get them over to the surface where they can be processed. Since we cannot use motorized suction for now, then how do we gather that stuff up? Let's hear some ideas from you guys? Does anyone have any experience with flexible screw augers??!! |
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Rod_Seiad Offline 376 posts Reply |
Atta boy Dave.
The asking permission to exist, as a gold harvestor, in this world today will draw a resounding NO from our collection of parasites. But we are here. Adapting to change. I was thinking of blowing ore bearing material into mesh sacks. Just think of an underwater grizzly sysyem that operates as an efficient classifier. Haul them on shore and highbank down to the real deal. I think that limiting the on river surface mechanizations is a good idea. Are we still allowed to use human powered suction tools on the river bottom? And then my personal favorite.... An underwater trommel with a reverse helix turned by water power. Creative engineering is needed to render our long beloved dredges as old and inefficient mining relics of the glory days. We have been thrown a curve for now, but we're still at bat. |
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Oregon_Jim Offline 38 posts Reply |
Thank you for your reply Dave. Since your post I have already started preparations to float my gear, including a pump.
I really hate to admit this, but I think I am catching the gold miners' fever... For the first time since I began prospecting I have started feeling that "MY GOLD" syndrome that is making me want to beat everyone else to that giant paystreak, rather than just enjoying the pleasure of sharing the bounty of the rivers with everyone. I am having anxieties about you guys finding "my gold" and I want to protect it like it was my favorite fishing spot, even though I don't know where that spot is. That is wierd thinking, even for me. It must be that dreaded gold fever!:doublethumbsup: |
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Oregon_Jim Offline 38 posts Reply |
As to collectinng material; I was thinking that if I were to use a water hose to create a small plume that the river current would carry away most of the lighter material, allowing gold to fall just a short distance downstream, and a mat or small section of carpet might catch it.
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InspectorTom Offline 315 posts Reply |
I hope my bros don't get mad for letting this out but we have been thinking up stuff like this since Aug. 2009...we call it "Loop-hole Dredging"...Brainstorming to exploit loop-holes in sb670.
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rockygulchJoe Offline posts Reply |
Thank you Dave, what more could a New49er want for Christmas than some beautiful new claims to work, although thay are almost all beautiful new claims to me.
Using the pontoons and motor/pump/hookah from a small dredge sounds like a good idea to me and legal. Maybe we can have a pontoon sniping outing. A dozen or so dredge pontoons floating on the river is sure to draw some attention fast, if you know what I mean. Someone could call the media and tell them their appears to be a bunch of 'GOLD DREDGERS' on our river, and when the media and every F&G officer in Siskiyou county and points beyond shows up we could lay some truth on them! A drift boat or a raft that looks like a big ole dredge from a distance thats what I want just so I can see F&Gs face when thay finally caught up whith me. I would be parked on a different river in CA every weekend Well hopefully our rights are restored then we can just go about our business in peace. |
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
Here is the good news:
From dialog with others who have already been considering this, we have confirmed there is indeed a way to use a suction device to transfer gravel (and gold) from one part of the river to another (underwater) without violating the Moratorium. This is a very exciting development and I'm actually surprised it took us so long to figure it out! If we do not overcome the Moratorium in Brandon's case (Plumas Superior Court) through his Demurrer Motion, I will take the time to outline "underwater gravel transfer systems" in an article with diagrams so I can link to the process in our January newsletter. Indeed; I believe we are going to have a good 2013 season! |
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Rod_Seiad Offline 376 posts Reply |
Well that's good enough for me Dave.
I look forward to R&D on subsurface gold collection. We knew that pumping large volumes of ore bearing material to the surface could somehow be improved upon. The move should provide quite a few advancements in operator/machine interface. Please let us know ASAP because we are dredge builders as well as operators. |
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salmonprospecting Offline posts Reply |
I'd like to stary by pointing out how lucky we are to have a Captain like Dave Mac.... He not only gives us miles of territory, continues to fight for us, and gives us renewed hope and opportunity..going as far as to offer diagrams of ways around the nonsense to our dreams of processing that river bottom.
Anyone who questions Daves position and passion at this point are missing the bus. Can't wait til summer Captain... I need to talk to you about giving you and a select few access and rights to my Main Stem claim about 5 miles downstream from the Boomer mountainside fall. Already scheduled for last week of July and all August...I hope we can meet out there...maby 10 acres can go to the club. Thanks for the Treasure Dave, Big John B J |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Dave, in your post you speak of any length of airline. Is a person able to, say, run 100' of airline from a T80 system on the bank into moderate depth water for sniping without a great loss of air volume? Thanks, Mike
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klondike_jake Offline 85 posts Reply |
when i first got into dredging i took the t-80 off the dredge and mounted it on plywood and put it in the little row boat i had. what for .i was diving for crab in Puget sound.best day was 65 keepers.i was diving for ten people.got it all by noon too.
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UncleMark Offline 531 posts Reply |
I dive with 65ft of airline on a T-80 all the time without any noticeable difference from 25ft of airline.
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Kewl, how's that for a hip word. Man I'm really with it!
Thanks UncleMark Mike
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
Looking closer at the California regulations, there does remain a way for us to go down along the bottom of California’s waterways and suction up the shallower, higher-grade gravels. This is because, as defined by DFG’s own formal regulations, as long as we remove the sluice box from our motorized suction system, we are not operating a “suction dredge.” Said another way, there is an opportunity to use a motorized suction system to transfer high-grade gravel from one place in the river or creek to another location where the gravel can be more-easily processed in a separate system.
I have outlined the initial concept right here. This new idea will allow us access to submerged gold deposits that otherwise would be out of our reach until the “dredge” moratorium is lifted in California. How’s that for good news? |
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Dave_Mack Offline 145 posts Administrator Reply |
Mike; I have actually done underwater prospecting with a full roll of airline (300 feet) connected to a T-80 air compressor. No problem on having enough air. But the are two issues: (1) the drag on the hose from the water's current is more, and (2) there is increased risk of getting the longer hose tangled in boulders or other obstructions -- which can be dangerous.
I would suggest several lengths, and you can connect them as needed if you want to probe out further from your air compressor. One important point on this: Make sure to secure the compressor and motor to something on the bank so it doesn't get dragged into the water or tipped over! |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Hey thanks Dave. I thought there would be considerable drag on a lengthy airline and yes, a person would definitely want to anchor the motor/compressor.
Thanks to others as well, a very helpful bunch. Also, is the snorkel on the engine something you buy pre-made or can a person build their own pretty easily? Mike
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UncleMark Offline 531 posts Reply |
Snorkels can be bought (call the girls in the office) and are fairly easy to build from materials you can buy at any store that sells thin wall PVC irrigation pipe.
Make sure you have a support bracket to prevent damage to your compressor. One word of advice-FILTER I personally recommend that you have a filter of any kind on the inlet of a snorkel. There are bees like mud wasps that will use a location like the inside of a snorkel tube to build an egg pack. Anyone who has had an outboard engine's engine block water discharge tube clogged by these pests will understand. |
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redwood Unavailable 199 posts Reply |
Thanks UncleMark,
That's what I like, buy local. I'll see what Montine has. Mike
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