Docking Laws
http://bb.bbboy.net/thewhitestuff-viewthread?forum=1&thread=220
Powered By BbBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net

SashasMum
14:26:50 Wed
Jan 11 2006
Docking Laws
Did anyone see the news article about the laws banning tail docking? I only caught the preview to it and, of course, they showed two beautiful boxers with their tails docked.

I think they were trying to get a new law through banning docking completely, but I didn't see it!

Anyone know how it went??

BoxerMad
17:59:17 Wed
Jan 11 2006
Re: Docking Laws
I didn't see anything on the news about it but i read a small article in the paper a few days ago saying that they were trying to get it banned.

From what i understand most vets will not carry this out anyway - apparently when they are training they have to sign to say that they will not carry out this procedure and they can be struck off the veterinary register if they are found to be carrying out docking. This is what i found out on the web when we had our first litter of puppies???

Although there are still all the people who do it themselves and i know there are vets out there who will do it on the quiet.

I really don't see the need for the tails to be docked anymore - i can understand in the past when dogs were used for hunting etc - a tail could easily become damaged or used as a point of attack from the other animal - but now it is only for cosmetic purposes.

All three of our babies still have their tails and i actually prefer this as their tails are so expressive - they have the whole thing to waggle about rather than just a little stump - although i have had bruises on my legs to show for it in the past!!!!

SashasMum
18:14:53 Wed
Jan 11 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Sasha's "breeder" had to get someone to come up from England or something to do theirs as no-one locally would touch it. Apparently she then kept them in the freezer as it is supposed to be lucky (someone should ask the pups that!!) She offered the tail to the people that bought the puppies!!

Doesn't bother me either way - takes a bit of getting used to, seeing a boxer with a tail, but that's about it!

I think I would rather have a happy dog than one who had suffered pain just to "look good" for the Kennel Club!

BoxerMad
18:28:01 Wed
Jan 11 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Eeurgghh....

Keeping boxer tails in the freezer - mind you saying that we have frozen mice in ours for the snake!!

Apparently it is really difficult to find someone to dock the tails - before we bred Tia we phoned around some vets to find out a bit more about it and we got some very nasty comments from them. Thats when we started to look into it a bit more and found out what we did.

Like you said Karen - a happy dog is the most important - although it is not supposed to cause them any pain - and it is done when they are about three days old so there is not a lot there to cut off anyway!!

I bet you would have so loved to have her tail to keep in your freezer!!!! - she must have labelled them up to be able to know which was which???

Better go - Henry is licking my legs to tell me he wants his dinner!!! Strange dog!!

Polo123
19:43:22 Wed
Jan 11 2006
Re: Docking Laws
I can understand docking tails to prevent injury but cropping ears I cannot agree with as that is purely cosmetic. It does seem to be mainly in America they do this, personally I much prefer the natural ears. #
When we got Polo his breeder told us that docking had to be done by vets - apparently breeders used to be able to do it themselves, so it sounds like things are changing all the time.

Katiesnowflake
00:13:07 Thu
Jan 12 2006
Re: Docking Laws
"although it is not supposed to cause them any pain"

This annoys me a lot to hear and see this quote - puppies squeal when its done and the bitch is very upset so dont let anyone tell you they dont feel pain.

It is unnecessary and purely cosmetic except [so I have been led to believe] in working circles where the tail can be damaged and cause a lot of discomfort. In this case I find myself wondering could they not invent something to protect the tail the same as a good hunter [horse] will have his legs bandaged at times - I dont know that much about horses but I have a friend who has them.

If there was a total ban and the KC enforced it breeders/exhibitors would soon get used to it as would buyers/owners. Its like everything else - changes make folk uneasy!

Helen

AZBOXER
05:40:29 Thu
Jan 12 2006
Re: Docking Laws
"although it is not supposed to cause them any pain"

What bothers me more than this statement is the statement, "well it was my choice," WHOSE CHOICE? certainly not the dogs, that statement really gets me.

This is in reference to cropping ears. I don't believe in cropping ears but my deaf white has cropped ears, he came that way.

I don't think the world would come to an end either if they banned tail docking. Boxers look fine with tails too..

jacquie
17:14:37 Fri
Jan 13 2006
Re: Docking Laws
It was ment to be banned in Scotland.

The thing is the "breeders" are stil allowed to dock if they are going to use the dogs for "working" .
17 years ago I got a puppy from a breeder who made me promise not to tell my vet where I got her rom as her tail was docked. She was white and all her litter mates were done as well. The breeder is also a vet so he does them himself.

My personal oppinion is a boxer is born with a tail leave it alone.Would you cut your kids thumb off because it sticks out? Seemingly babies dont feel pain. I was told that when I gave birth to my son in Canada and they asked if I wanted him circumsised.

Katiesnowflake
01:39:35 Sat
Jan 14 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Another unnecessary thing unless for medical purposes. It always amazes me when I see tiny babies with pierced ears with studs in them - I mean what are their parents thinking of!
Helen

Jakes_mum
18:01:39 Sun
Jan 15 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Err how many of us know people with working boxers. My personal opinion is that it is barbaric and should be banned. Chaos looks absolutely beautiful with his tail, and there aint nobody at the kennel club who could tell me different.

Liz

Guest [Unregistered]
19:50:36 Sun
Jan 15 2006
Re: Docking Laws
I DON'T THINK THAT DOCKING TAILS SHOULD BE ALLOWED THEY'RE BORN WITH THEM SO LEAVE THEN THEM ALONE.
I COULDN'T IMAGINE CHAOS WITHOUT HIS AND ITS GREAT FUN WATCHING HIM CHASE IT, ALTHOUGH I HAVE HAD MIXED VIEWS WHEN HE'S BEEN OUT FOR A WALK. MOST FOLK SAY ITS LOVELY BUT YOU ALSO GET "HE LOOKS ODD" OR "A BOXER WI A TAIL JUST ISN'T RIGHT" PEE'S ME OFF AT TIMES!!!!!!

SashasMum
22:53:13 Sun
Jan 15 2006
Re: Docking Laws
................"a working boxer" .................. Now that is something I would like to see!!!

Really must follow this all up and see if the law was passed or not!

SashasMum
23:00:24 Sun
Jan 15 2006
Re: Docking Laws
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4549508.stm That was the news article I had seen on BBC News 24.

Below is the KC Breed standard for boxer's tails ....... if the KC accepts undocked tails - why are they still being docked???!!! I honestly thought the KC didn't accept them and that was why breeders were docking them - seems like another myth to me!

Tail
Customarily docked.
Docked: Set on high and carried upward.
Undocked: Set on high and carried gaily, not curled over back. Of moderate thickness. In overall balance to the rest of dog. KC Breed standard for a boxer




Guest [Unregistered]
01:24:27 Mon
Jan 16 2006
Re: Docking Laws
They dont disallow it either. A lot of the KC folk also have show dogs that are customary docked so they dont want to change things - this is what we are working against.

I was on anothe rforum recently and got into a debate on docking with folk who were for it mainly - just no changing their minds. The main person who was for it continuing turned out to have dogs that werent docked anyway. Crazy.

Up with tails!!!!:jump:

Helen

NickiG
04:18:23 Sat
Jan 21 2006
Re: Docking Laws
""""Another unnecessary thing unless for medical purposes. It always amazes me when I see tiny babies with pierced ears with studs in them - I mean what are their parents thinking of!"""""

I am one of those moms, I did both of my daughters ears when they were about 3 weeks old. I did it because honestly I think it looks cute and to get it over and done with. Just to let you know so you don't think we are evil parents. Neither of my girls cried at all when I had it done so it couldn't have hurt. A shot from the doctor would hurt more than piercing their ears and we all do that to them.
When I went to get my second holes done, the lady actually told me that the older you get the more it will hurt. Something about the tissue or cartlidge?? Something about it getting thicker and tougher as you age. She said it rarely hurts young children. But then you do get the children that will freak out at the slightest thing or just the site of a drop of blood, wouldn't recommend piercing the ears of those kids.
My sister agrees with you though, she went with me when I did my daughters and she chickened out and wouldn't do her daughter.


As for tail docking, if it was ever banned here than that would be fine with me but I do prefer the docked tail. I know someone with a dog that is half boxer and he has his tail...well it is a weapon! It smacks kids and has knocked little ones down LOL It has also knocked many drinks over from the coffee table! A boxer tail is just the right height to slap little kids in the face and spill drinks!!:roundnround:

I had a litter of puppies and I had the tails done, 6 puppies and they didn't squeal at all, a couple barely woke up at all. I had it done when they were about 2 days old.

kerrigan
18:49:00 Sun
Jan 29 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Docking can still be done in Scotland, you have to join The Council of Docked Breeds, it is all very secretive to be honest, Vets that were willing to "dock" had lots of problems with animal rights activists,& most just stopped docking. I was told under no circumstances to tell anyone which Vet docked my pups tails, we had to go when the surgery was closed
I just need to add that I was there when our pups tails (3 days old)were docked-not one of them cried out but on the other hand I cannnot say they did not feel any pain I could'nt know that for certain, the vet used a band to cut circulation, the tail fell off in a few days,
I have seen some horrific pictures of docking gone wrong-people trying to do it themselves, at the moment I am on the fence about docking, yes it is cosmetic but Boxers tails have been docked for years & years making the full tail a lot weaker/fragile
Yvonne



NickiG
05:18:53 Tue
Jan 31 2006
Re: Docking Laws
They cut the circulation off and then wait until they fall off???? I have heard about that from years ago but I had no idea that it was still done!!
That is not the way that the vets here do it. It is done here at the vets office and is still quite acceptable and "normal" The ear cropping on the other hand is not so acceptable anymore.
Wow, weird how things are so different in different countries........

jilldemo
07:56:54 Tue
Jan 31 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Cutting the circulation off and waiting for the tails to die, then cutting them off. This act has been illegal in Scotland for over 30 years, for any animal! Predominantly targeted were sheep/lamb farmers. I have seen this done as a youngster and it is horrific, as the hours pass the pain grows until the appendage goes numb and "dies."

kerrigan
19:46:35 Tue
Jan 31 2006
Re: Docking Laws
Our pups tails were not cut off, they fell off after a few days, , it was a certified vet who used this method, on my pups, I would hope it was legal and doubt vets would risk the reprecussions of an illegal act.
Yvonne

NickiG
02:41:44 Wed
Feb 1 2006
Re: Docking Laws
I am pretty sure that that method has been illegal here for quite some time as well.

sweetangelemma
20:59:31 Fri
Jan 26 2007
Re: Docking Laws
When i got scottbi i was told my a friend of mine that his tail had been docked illegally because the law had changed in july or summart banning the docking off all dogs tails! i think a boxer with a tail would look strange. ive never seen a boxer with a tail. I hate the cropped ears though i love dogs floppy soft ears. :o)

ripBUSTER
21:39:36 Fri
Jan 26 2007
Re: Docking Laws
:hello:

Our boy Buster had a tail, and he looked great, somehow he always looked happier than Mille`who had a docked tail, and seemed to have more character about him. Gotta say though, Boxers tails aren't very well suited to them, for such lively, nutty dogs they could do with a bit more hair cover, Bust was forever splitting his tail open where he wagged it so hard and bashed it on things.:doh: No matter how hard we tried to calm him down, the wagg just kept on commin! Spoke to the vet and they said if it kept reoccuring they would dock it as it was considered a medical problem.....

Squeezeboxplayer
00:05:44 Sat
Jan 27 2007
Re: Docking Laws
I'm not decided about docked or not docked - I think Boxers are Boxers whether they have a tail or not. All mine have always been docked - not by choice I might add my first 2 were rescues and when we got Gixer the breeder had it done when the litter was 3 days old. Have often thought it must hurt though. We weren't told not to tell anyone who did it though but I thought it was already banned unless showing/breeding/working. Obviously Gixer can't be shown as he's white and doesn't meet the KC standard and a "working" Boxer would be interesting - and he can't be a stud as he's been neutered. I might add I do know of Boxers working - my parents went to the Austrian Tyrol on holiday and were in a cafe with pictures of Boxers over the walls, theu told the owner I had a Boxer and got chatting. The owner said they used to use them as mountain rescue as they are great at finding people.
As for the ear cropping - I think that's awful I saw a programme on how it's done and it seems barbaric. Boxers should have floppy ears.

Jakes_mum
14:11:24 Sat
Jan 27 2007
Re: Docking Laws
If boxers were suppose to have stumpy tails and pointy ears, they would be born that way. If people dont like the way they look, then they should look for a different breed that appeals to them!
Liz

delicatecherry
20:39:11 Sat
Jan 27 2007
Re: Docking Laws
Hello there
I am also undecided on the docking ban.I dont mind either way weather there tails are docked or not.I have a fawn male who is docked also a white bitch coming to us on 23feb and she is also docked.If they want to ban docking then surley the dewclaw removal is wrong to.My male has had his dew removed.
Just my opinion
Dc

ripBUSTER
19:37:07 Mon
Jan 29 2007
Re: Docking Laws
I'm undecided too on the docking law:dunno:,
but as for stopping the declawing of the dew claw, i think that'd cause more harm than good. All my family are dog lovers and both sets of parents have had trouble with their dogs dew claws being ripped off, or being torn. The other week i was helping my mum bandage her German Sheperds front dew claws as he had managed to catch both of them and make them bleed, ouch.:doh: Although our vet, whose very much against docking and declawing thinks it's all unneccessary, thinks all dogs should have their dewclaws says they need them for cleaning ears etc???? Seriously, i think they must make a packet from removal of torn dewclaws.:ohwell:

Polo123
19:42:30 Mon
Jan 29 2007
Re: Docking Laws
I remember coming home once years ago, when we had our old dog, to find blood all over the kitchen, wondered what on earth had been going on - that was a dew claw problem, looked more like someone had been murdered :eek:

SashasMum
21:34:35 Mon
Jan 29 2007
Re: Docking Laws
Tizzy has her tail and dew claws. Her dew claws will be removed when she is spayed at 6 months as I am worried about damage to them while she is running around like an idiot through the undergrowth!:waa:

jilldemo
22:23:40 Mon
Jan 29 2007
Re: Docking Laws
I was talking to Daz's breeder, it was their first litter. He said that the saddest thing he has ever seen, was the pile of tiny tails in the back room.

SashasMum
09:11:57 Tue
Jan 30 2007
Re: Docking Laws
When I got Sasha (bearing in mind she was 5 months old) I contacted the breeder, just to find out a bit more about the litter/mother etc.

Would you believe she was very proud of the fact that she had contacted a vet down south to come and do it and ............ she had their tails in the freezer (because it was lucky?????) and asked me if I wanted Sasha's!:eek:

CHAOSS_MUM
18:11:41 Mon
Feb 5 2007
Re: Docking Laws
Chaos his tails and his dew claws neither of which gives him any trouble and to be honest one of the reasons i fell in love with him so quickly was the fact that his picture liz sent me of him clearly showed his tail, it didn't look like it wasn't meant to be there.

I say leave them alone i'm afraid!

Amanda

PS it gives them hours of fun trying to chase it

ValerieMont
14:02:27 Tue
Feb 6 2007
Re: Docking Laws
This conversation is very interesting to me. I am in the US and tail docking is considered normal and is common place. In fact, I cant say I have ever seen a Boxer with a tail other than when we had our newborn (accidental) litter, but we had them removed at 2 days old by our vet.

Someone mentioned above how differnt things are in differnt countries and I couldnt agree more. Dont get me wrong, Im not really for or against tail docking, it's just the norm here and I find it very interesting how differnt things are in other parts of the world.

As far as dew claws go 1 of our 5 still has her dew claws (she came to us this way when she was 2 years old), she is the most energetic one of the bunch and has never had any problems with them. One of the babies (now 4 1/2 months old) still has part of one of his dews...when the vet did the tails he removed all the dews and somehow this one didnt quite come out. He said that they crush the nail and then just kind of wiggle it out, the way he worded it didnt sound so bad, and he thought that this one just didnt come all the way out but unless it gives him trouble to just leave it alone because after 3 days old they have to go under anestisha (sp?) to have it removed.



Docking Laws
http://bb.bbboy.net/thewhitestuff-viewthread?forum=1&thread=220
Powered By BbBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net