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thekrays
17:03:38 Thu
Jul 19 2007

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Tail Docking

My partner took Ronnie to the vets this morning for his 2nd injection. The vet asked her how old was Ronnie she replied 10 weeks. The vet in a snooty tone said it was illegal for Ronnie to have been docked. My partner being a country girl was shocked with the attitude of the vet about boxer owners being crul to boxer dogs for letting breeders cut the tail off with a pair of sissors (sorry for spelling if wrong). and that all dogs should have tails the vet seems to us that he needs to pull his head out were the sun dont shine and keep his personnel views to himself.

What i would like to ask is was tail docking made illegal on the 5th April 2007 and has any other Boxer owner had this type of attitude towards them for having a dock tail on thier baby.
My personnel thoughts are that the boxer should be dock as this was the breeds look from the begining but thats my personnel view

  
weazy779
17:50:17 Thu
Jul 19 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Yes tail docking was made illegal. Poppy is docked, she was born on 28th December last year and the breeder said that would be the last docked litter. She has also had her dew claws removed.

I think the vet has probably frowned apon it because he/she will know that it wasn't done by a vet. At the end of the day though you didn't do it so i cant understand why the vet took that attitude with you.

It is a personal thing whether you like it or not, I think in time people will get used to seeing boxers with tails and also rotties etc. I know of someone locally who had a litter of 9 rottie pups and she had a hard time selling them because they weren't docked.



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Lisa_1981
17:59:09 Thu
Jul 19 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

The legislation wasn't introduced to Scotland until the 30th of April. Kai was born on the 28th and he's docked. The breeder said that the only reason they bred this litter was because he wanted one last docked pup. They say they will not have another litter. To be honest it doesn't make any difference to me whether Kai was docked or not, like someone else said its something that people will get used to eventually.

  
SashasMum
18:46:22 Thu
Jul 19 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

If Ronnie was born after 30th April then he was illegally docked I am afraid, hence the vets attitude. They will not want to be associated with this action as it could reflect badly on their practise. Did you get him from a breeder?

I have to say I am all for the ban.

Tizzy was born last November and thankfully the woman who had her refused to dock them and actually made me sign a contract to say I would never dock her, unless it was for medical reasons. I was happy to sign it.

Lisa, didn't you say Kai came from Glenauld? I would be shocked to my core if they never had anymore boxers with the amount they churn out in a year!!! :eek:



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dominic1
18:53:07 Thu
Jul 19 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Tail docking was made illegal in England on 6th April.The question most probably arose as the Vet would have known the Pups Birth Date and was maybe wondering when the tail was done..Do you know when it was done as you could have an illegally docked Pup which can hold serious consequences.. Sorry but i cant remember if you have said where you live..If your partner told the vet it was done with scissors i can understand why they would be annoyed....
I am proud to say I have my 5 babes and will enjoy seeing their wagging tails



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Katiesnowflake
00:50:51 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

It is very much a personal opinion. I cant say I am sorry to see it banned. Breeders who say they wont breed or show dogs with tails - pah. Is that all they kept the dog for - because it was tailess. All my dogs are docked but I have had them with tails. Cutting with scissors is barbaric.

Helen

  
thekrays
10:16:57 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Hi no the vet siad that all dog tails were dock with the sissors not my partner we thought then only used the elastic band method to dog tails (cutting tails off with sissors seem abit extreme to me)we live in devon dog came from cornwall. I didnt relise that the docking of tails was illegal as many working dogs seem to need dock tails.

I had a boxer a few years ago (RIP) with a tail had alot of problems when he wagged it in cutting that caused a lot of open wounds. It just seems a shame to see docking stopped when done properly by a professianal.

  
seasidecarl
10:53:58 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

I agree with docking for medical reasons, but if docking is now illeagal how is my ziggy docked? he is nine weeks old, born 12 may, which is after april????? it will be a while before i get used to seeing boxers with tails. i am just glad we dont follow the american practise of shaping the ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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dominic1
11:20:17 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Where did you get Ziggy from?
They must have known it was illegal to dock his tail.
Your vet will ask you questions about this i am sure....
Not sure what happens about owning a dog that has been illegally docked..



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redshift22
11:51:13 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

There are worse things than the American pricking of ears, Asian sheep dogs (Ovcharka) have the ears cut off all together.

  
Jakes_mum
17:56:16 Fri
Jul 20 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

I also agree with removing tails for medical reasons - its called amputation! Why oh why would anyone want to remove a tail from a perfectly healthy dog??? Yes they were originally docked way back in the dark ages because they were working dogs and their tails got in the way and injured......as i have asked before, how many working boxers does any one know!!!!

Sorry for the rant, but why change something that is already perfection in itself, thank god the country has finally realised this is a cruel and pointless practice.

Obviously this is only my point of view and as you can tell it is something i feel strongly about. Heskey is docked, but oh how i envy Amanda's Chaos with his wiggly waggly tail!

Liz

  
Lisa_1981
11:01:56 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Quote: SashasMum at 18:46:22 Thu Jul 19 2007

Lisa, didn't you say Kai came from Glenauld? I would be shocked to my core if they never had anymore boxers with the amount they churn out in a year!!! :eek:


Kai's father is Gowanlane Diamond Dynasty at Glenauld but his mother was from a lovely couple who kept her as a pet.

  
spikes_mum
13:18:41 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

i think i'm with most people here, docking is barbaric! And i get fed up of hearing from people who say it doesn't hurt the puppy, how the hell could they possibly know that!!:angry: my Sally has a tail and she uses it all the time without injuring herself in any way, so i don't even see where that argument comes in.From the dog owneres i have spoken to who have a docked tail breed , the general opinion is that they think it looks good! My ears stick out, maybe my mum should have had them cut off at birth so i looked good:headbangers:

  
Jakes_mum
14:25:32 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

I quite agree Spikes mum...maybe our parents should have had us all surgically enhanced shortly after birth!!!! Im sure if all of us look back we have had "fashion disasters" and tail docking is the biggest "fashion disaster" of the dog world! We stopped tail docking of horses long ago cos it went out of fashion, im just not sure why its taken so long with dogs! lets hope the rest of the world catches up soon.

Liz

  
thekrays
21:18:10 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

as the owners off a working boxer who lives on a farm with livestock. Who has a just purchase another boxer to be trained as a working dog i strongly agree with there tails being docked because of the terrain they have to cover. It seems that more working dogs are becoming pets and trying to change the breed to suit thier own ideas of how a working dog should be.

[1 edits; Last edit by thekrays at 21:23:41 Sat Jul 21 2007]

  
jilldemo
21:27:01 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Hi thekrays, just out of curiosity, what type of work are the Boxers doing?
There is a Central Asian Charka living local to us. The owner was working in oil over there somewhere, and took one for a pet. When re-patriated, he brought the dog home. It has no tail, no dew claws and the ears have been cut down to 2 inch round half discs. It looks very odd, but a very good natured, playful dog.



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thekrays
22:06:49 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

There are used as gun dogs to retrive and also help in flushing out phasents on shoots. Also a deterrent to other wildlife attacking the livestock. They are a typical boxer clown like, great with the kids, fun loving in the home enviroment. They enjoy the out door life of the countryside living having the oppertunity to live as close to the way they were originally bred for it seems sad to us that docking has now stop as we love the boxer for its capability to be a family dog as well as a working dog.

  
spikes_mum
22:22:42 Sat
Jul 21 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

sorry i don't agree workin dogs need tails docked. the original working dog {the wolf} gets along fine.:ohwell:

  
thekrays
09:16:34 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

If you look at the wolfs enviroment its pray are large like bisons, buffalos and other large animals that live in open plains most of the time. Also if you look at the smaller pray like wild rabbits and hares also deer they live in thick under growth and these have small docked like tails as they would corse damaged that may lead to infection and even death. working dogs spend alot of time in thick undergrowth i'll amit not all working dogs ie the sheep dog

When i first started this tread i asked if docking was illegal and ask if any other boxer owner had been frond on for having a docked dog. I understand that everyone has a right to thier own views but want i dont understand is why people are against docking then go and buy a dog that has been docked. When a dog has been docked yes i understand there is pain to the puppy but after a few days or so (if docking done properly) the pain will subside and the dog leads a full and healthy life. Also people against docking and say its barbaric are more that happy to have a dog that has had its nose squashed which can cause breathing difficulties and discomfort to our beloved pets and yet no one stands up and say this is not right and it should be band!!!

In todays world of advance mediciane and technology the dog thats has a dock tail should not have to suffer. We who are responsible dog owners who are now looking into the legislation on docking abroad as will be buying are boxer's abroad and inporting them in the feature as i have seen first hand the damage and discomfort a boxers tail can bring in the working enviroment.

  
SashasMum
09:26:13 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Unfortunately this is one argument that the two sides are never going to agree on.

A lot of Europe already has the ban in place and I know the UK has now fallen in line with them.

I can't remember the last time I heard about a boxer being used as a working dog, so docking for them is a mute point surely. I understand some of the farmers etc who do have working dogs and I know that in England you can apply to have your puppy docked, if you can prove it will be a working dog.

I too have heard the horror stories of what can happen to a tail on a boxer. But I have also seen damaged tails on labs and german shepherds - are we to dock all breeds to prevent accidents happening? How about taking all their nails out to prevent split claws?

As for the nose squishing - it's not as if that is a procedure that is carried out on them soon after birth. It's a bred in characteristic now and only long term breeding against it will change that.

The reason most people would have bought a docked boxer in the past is because they had no choice. Personally I always loved to see a boxer with a tail and am loving the fact that Tizzy has one.

I don't think it's fair to imply that those pro tail docking are responsible dog owners, thus implying that those who are against it are irresponsible. There are fores and againsts for both sides of the arguments - but then it's a mute point now because it is the law!!!




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thekrays
09:40:28 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Would like to reply to this statement:- I don't think it's fair to imply that those pro tail docking are responsible dog owners, thus implying that those who are against it are irresponsible.

I never imply to anyone no matter want they belive in docking. i was saying that my partner and myself were responsible dog owners and would never see ill treatment to any animal trying to make the point that docking is done to lower the risk of damage.

  
SashasMum
09:43:44 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Fair enough - my mistake for misunderstanding your point. :rollingeyes:



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dominic1
10:08:36 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

I think we are all missing the point here.The Krays dog was docked legally..I am more concerned about Ziggy who was born well after the Ban came into force..

Who ends up taking the blame for this action.The innocent owner or the idiots who broke the law..

In a few years when there are hardly any docked Boxers around,people wont even look twice at a boxer with a tail as it will be something they have got used to..
Change is inevitable unless you want to live in the dark ages..People are more humane than they were even a couple of years ago and the younger moderner Vet etc..are more concious of the work they do. Through intellect and learning they now understand more on animals feelings.The Tail Docking ban wasnt just a whim by someone ,it was thought out correctly and over a long period of time..I for one am glad I havent had to put my puppies and Lucy through the anguish of having their tails docked.The pups go through a hard time being born and dont need the aded trauma so soon after birth.




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Jakes_mum
13:34:02 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Why would not docking a dogs tail change its personality, it would still be the same happy family dog with a tail. Like i said, i can see the reason for working dogs who are at risk of injury to have this done as no-one wants their dog to suffer unecessarily. If i was to buy a boxer puppy, i would want one with a tail, Heskey doesnt have his as he is a rescue dog and thats the way he came to me. Regardless he is a valued and much loved member of our family...tail or no tail.

Liz

  
dominic1
13:38:35 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

Meant to say..Lucy doeant have a tail, but I was thinking how upsetshe would get, when her babies were crying with pain



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seasidecarl
13:53:10 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

i got ziggy through white boxer rescue, sheila dawson, i am concerned now............... am i going to be fined for owning a dog with a docked tail since the ban date?



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dominic1
15:20:35 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

I know its a stupid question but are you sure of the Birth Date. Did Sheila have the full Litter in or just ziggy. Seems unusual for sheils not to have picked up on this.
Dont know what the law is at the moment. I'd give sheila a ring and ask her.



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seasidecarl
19:03:12 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

he was 10 weeks old yesterday (sat 21) so i checked 10 weeks back on the calendar and its definatley may. im speaking to sheila later, as far as i know she only had ziggy.



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thekrays
20:03:15 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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Re: Tail Docking

our pup ronnie is only ten weeks old as well all the pups in hes litter were dock .i think that there will be many more ?

  
SashasMum
21:12:09 Sun
Jul 22 2007

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I wonder why people are still so stuck on docking when it's the law. It's not as if folk wont find out - the missing tail kind of gives it away :rollingeyes:

I just hope these are breeders that will have their licences taken off them.

As long as you can prove that you purchased the Ziggy and Ronnie without tails, then I don't think you can be taken to account for it. I do hope however that whoever has the necessary information will be happy to hand it over to the authorities.



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